Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 11:47 PM, Barry wrote:
How do I know whether they are even reading our content or otherwise ? Its always the same people who contribute (give or take a little) but our activity tab doesnt show when a member reads content only if they ever contribute
It's a legitimate question, for sure. Personally, I feel that posting might be a contribution, while reading is not. It's in fact difficult to see how reading messages could ever become a logged activity. Just because a message was displayed on the screen doesn't mean it's been read. And a substantial fraction of members don't read their messages online at all. Confirming that an email was sent to them is just about the best you can do.
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We have only 160 members.
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Of those numbers maybe 15-20 hold it all together at most.
My experience is that in any given group/club, 10% of the people will end up doing 90% of the work. Groups.io is not an exception.
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Regards,
Bruce
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
I consider on balance that it is my business to know who is just watching our group as opposed to being positively involved. We are not restricted in terms of numbers of members, because we are a specialist group with a specialist interest. We have only 160 members.
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Of those numbers maybe 15-20 hold it all together at most. The efforts of those to keep it going is therefore considerable. We see on average 100 posts per month. If I knew who the watchers were, as opposed to the contributors - I'd ask them to leave, its as simple as that. This being on the basis of it being wholly fair on those that contribute - who wants to talk to no-one - barry.
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
(I find the framing of that question a little off-putting...)
I am owner of several groups that are relatively small (10 to 20 members).? These are *participatory* groups, like teams.? While we don't specify how much people must participate, no member is allowed to just lurk.? (Of course, we don't really need a mechanism to show us who has read emails, since we can tell who isn't participating.)
From: "Sarah Shapiro via groups.io" <sarahseventytwo@...>
To: "GroupManagersForum" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2025 11:50:34 PM
Subject: Re: [GMF] How do I know if a member is reading our content
Why is it any business of yours if they are reading messages?? Is there a requirement for membership in your group to participate publicly?
?>....doesnt show when a member reads content only if they ever contribute
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Jane,
Since I don't see the BLUE Owner or Mod (moderator) icons next to the Home button in your screen shot I'm going to say you are not logged in as either...??
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Follow this link and tell me if you see your groups listed and if they show BLUE Ower/Mod icons after their name?
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See how I'm listed as the Owner of the below groups...? You should see this for your groups...
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In the far right of the screen, you should see your Logging name...? Click on it and it will show you what email address you are using for your current login...
Some of us have one as Owner/Moderator and as Regular Joe so we can see exactly what regular users see...
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If you sent an email to the owner of your group, is that the same email address shown for your current login?
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73 Dallas N4DDM
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
If you have a free group with limited membership, and perhaps a waiting list, you would want those on the list to participate or leave so that others can join.
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Steve M?
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Hi Emily,
have a look at the next topic in this group - ?Owner status changed“ - where Dan reports an almost identical problem. He eventually found out that his provider had made a software change, basically setting up an experimental VPN connection, which caused a loss of owner rights for some of his groups. I suggest you contact him to find out if you both maybe have the same provider.
Kind regards
Thomas
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
Barry
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Another way is if someone “likes” a post.?
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We have 1,254 members, of which probably 25 actively post.?
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
On Sun, Feb 16, 2025 at 05:47 AM, Barry wrote: I have 20 or more relatively new members (in the last 12 months say) who
generally do not contribute. How do I know whether they are even reading our
content or otherwise ? You don't - unless they happen to reply Its always the same people who contribute (give or take a little) That's how it usually is, so what? Nobody likes to see the inbox filled with inane messages from dozens or hundreds of people. groetjes/?is, Ronaldo
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Re: How do I know if a member is reading our content
Why is it any business of yours if they are reading messages?? Is there a requirement for membership in your group to participate publicly?
?>....doesnt show when a member reads content only if they ever contribute
_._,_._,_
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Damn, I think by now I think we've all seen your replies. Like I said previously, I am glad that it's all working.
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On Feb 15, 2025, at 4:06?PM, Dan Lepinski, P.E. via groups.io <Dan@...> wrote:
Joseph (and everyone),
?
We don't have a "Premium" account because the Groups sites under discussion are for a non-profit organization with a very small annual budget.? (Emphasis on "small").? I provide my time as a volunteer, as do others.
?
Please see my post that preceded this one.? The problem turned out to be some experimental VPN software downloaded by my provider into our modem yesterday.? We learned a flaw in their code affects a tiny fraction of websites.? Unfortunately, Groups.io was one of them, and I just happened to be the first to experience it.? My provider has deactivated the software in our and other modems.? I'm now able to log in normally, and am shown as "Owner" on all four sites again.? Why this affected Groups.io, and why only two of the four groups sites?? I don't know.? However, this issue has caused my provider to cease their testing until the cause can be found and corrected.? They also promised not to download any more firmware into our modem without first informing their customers.
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Regards to all,
?
Dan
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Wow, I'm glad that your provider was able to help you fix this problem. I would never think of a provider doing some testing and then having a simple glitch. I don't know who you use is your provider, but I hope they never do that to me here. As I like being able to approve members via the web and do other things via the web when I have to do anything with the site.
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On Feb 15, 2025, at 3:53?PM, Dan Lepinski, P.E. via groups.io <Dan@...> wrote:
The more people commented they are (and were) not affected, the more convinced I became this was something that involved and impacted only me.
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Since by the process of elimination I'd ruled out my own hardware and software, I took the next logical step in the analysis process.
A few moments ago, I got off the phone with the tech support dept for my upline provider where I'd spent nearly a hour working with them to get this resolved. ?Turns out they are (or were) trying to implement a form of embedded VPN, and are using selected customers as guinea pigs. ?Problem is, they didn't tell their customers, including me. ?After some troubleshooting, it was determined that data streams for certain URLs are getting fractionally corrupted by their experimental VPN software. ?The flaw affected a fraction of sites, but not most others. ?Why there should be a difference with Groups.io groups, I don't know. ?Neither does my provider. ?They turned the function off on my end (it's firmware they downloaded into the modem), and as of a few minutes ago, I've regained normal "Owner" status on all four of my sites with no changes on my end.
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The tech wizards at my provider don't know how this experimental VPN firmware was causing the problem I described, but whatever it is .. Groups.io servers and/or software interpreted the data in a manner that caused the inconsistency I described.
To be candid, I'm not sure Mark could have figured it out because the issue occurs at a deep level within the code, and perhaps at the server level either at the Groups.io site, or somewhere between. ?My provider's test code was downloaded into my modem yesterday. ?As we all know, Microsoft is infamous for bugs in their code. ?This one was at my provider's end, not with MS, and it affected all of my systems regardless of the operating system or browser.
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Clearly this issue has stopped my provider from conducting any future testing until their glitch is corrected. ?They promised to tell me next time they try again, if ever.
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I will send an update to the Groups.io support e-mail and let them know this has been resolved.
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Thank you all for your input, comments, and suggestions.
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Dan
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Something that is missing, if you guys wanna check this out, we don't even need his password. Wicked send his email address a login link, and all he's gonna do is forward it to us and then we could click on it and look in his account. That is the much more simpler way of doing it. Because you're gonna get the same results. This is what I do, whenever I have to help somebody who needs help with the site. It's much more easier that way.
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On Feb 15, 2025, at 2:24?PM, Christos Psarras <christos@...> wrote:
Dan,
One thing you haven't mentioned is if you cleared the Groups.io
cookies on all the computers and browsers you use(d) so you can
(forcefully) start a brand-new fresh session and see if that clears
it, if you haven't give that a shot, maybe something incorrect has
gotten cached somewhere locally.
Another possibility to help clarify if it's on your local end,
temporarily change your groups.io password, find someone
trustworthy* outside your ISP area, and let them login as you and
see what they get onscreen.
If they get the same strange result then it must be some data
corruption in the groups.io database, I doubt code changes would
create this type of random weirdness, and the doesn't seem to indicate it
could somehow create this.?
If they get the correct result then it has to be something on your
end.
Cheers,
Christos
* I can help with that if you want.
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How do I know if a member is reading our content
I have 20 or more relatively new members (in the last 12 months say) who generally do not contribute. How do I know whether they are even reading our content or otherwise ? Its always the same people who contribute (give or take a little) but our activity tab doesnt show when a member reads content only if they ever contribute - barry?
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Bruce,
The source of the problem has been traced to VPN firmware
downloaded into our modem by our local service provider (phone
company). The flaw affected a tiny fraction of websites, but not
most.? I wasn't aware this firmware had been downloaded by our
provider yesterday, and was (according to them) the first to
report any issues.? They have since deleted the firmware and
restored our modem to normal operation.
No accounts were merged, so that wasn't at issue.? If you have
time to go back through what has become more than 20 messages in
this thread, you'll find my comments where I conducted rather
extensive detective work on my end before reaching out.
Thanks again!
Dan
On 2/15/25 4:24 PM, Bruce Bowman via
groups.io wrote:
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On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 04:59 PM, Dan Lepinski, P.E. wrote:
Further checking: Two of my four groups still show
me as "owner".? One group now shows me as a moderator (not
owner), and the 4th group (the one where I need to review
messages) now shows me as just a standard "member".? All of my
four groups still show up under the "My Groups" heading, and
"posting" privileges listed for me in the groups are correct.
If you're sure you're logged in correctly, the only time I've
seen this happen is when someone merged two accounts (email
addresses). If you didn't do that, I'm at a loss.
?
Since you aren't running a paid group, you might have more
luck reporting this as a #bug in
instead of sending an email to support. Leaving a group
ownerless is theoretically not possible, so if this truly did
happen Mark should be able to verify that and not only reinstate
you but also head off whatever circumstances allowed it to
occur.
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Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 04:59 PM, Dan Lepinski, P.E. wrote:
Further checking: Two of my four groups still show me as "owner".? One group now shows me as a moderator (not owner), and the 4th group (the one where I need to review messages) now shows me as just a standard "member".? All of my four groups still show up under the "My Groups" heading, and "posting" privileges listed for me in the groups are correct.
If you're sure you're logged in correctly, the only time I've seen this happen is when someone merged two accounts (email addresses). If you didn't do that, I'm at a loss.
?
Since you aren't running a paid group, you might have more luck reporting this as a #bug in instead of sending an email to support. Leaving a group ownerless is theoretically not possible, so if this truly did happen Mark should be able to verify that and not only reinstate you but also head off whatever circumstances allowed it to occur.
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Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On 2025-02-15 16:32, Jane Gilman via
groups.io wrote:
I am experiencing many of
the same problems?since and need help as soon as possible.?
I am Owner/Moderator of 3 groups and can't locate the ADMIN
button.? It doesn't appear.
More than likely in your case, you're logged in with a different
email address than the one who's the owner.
Go to and go to your account settings, on the blue
bar at the upper right of screen, is the address shown in there the
correct owner one? If not, you need to log out and log back in with
the correct address.
Cheers,
Christos
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Thomas,
Your suggestion was well taken.? I've now added a "backup" owner
and e-mail address to each of the four groups that I can access
from a tablet and its browser, and which works via the phone
system.
Thanks!
Dan
On 2/15/25 11:56 AM, Thomas Gruber via
groups.io wrote:
Hi Dan,
maybe you can at least fix the group where you are moderator
(instead of owner as you were). And ignore the following if
you‘ve already tried that.?
Try this:
click on ?Admin“ - it should then show the options?
- Pending
- Members
- Activity
- Membership (with sub-options)
- Preferences ?(with sub-options)
?
Click ?Members“ - it should show the member list. Go though
it (or search) to your own account. I assume it will say ?Mod“
beside the email address.
click on the name - it should show ?User Details“ and Role
?Moderator“ underneath. Click on ?Moderator“ - it should open a
list with ?Member“, ?Moderator“, ?Owner“. Select ?Owner“ - then
scroll to the bottom and ?Save“.?
I hope the system will allow these actions. That should set
you back to Owner status hopefully. Log out and back in to
verify that this has worked.
?
If that has worked, and even if not, click on ?Activity“
under ?Admin“ and try to find in the log any action from the
last few days that could have caused the change of your Owner
status. Hopefully that group doesn‘t have too much activity so
that you have a chance to find something.
Good luck!
Thomas
?
--
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Joseph (and everyone),
?
We don't have a "Premium" account because the Groups sites under discussion are for a non-profit organization with a very small annual budget.? (Emphasis on "small").? I provide my time as a volunteer, as do others.
?
Please see my post that preceded this one.? The problem turned out to be some experimental VPN software downloaded by my provider into our modem yesterday.? We learned a flaw in their code affects a tiny fraction of websites.? Unfortunately, Groups.io was one of them, and I just happened to be the first to experience it.? My provider has deactivated the software in our and other modems.? I'm now able to log in normally, and am shown as "Owner" on all four sites again.? Why this affected Groups.io, and why only two of the four groups sites?? I don't know.? However, this issue has caused my provider to cease their testing until the cause can be found and corrected.? They also promised not to download any more firmware into our modem without first informing their customers.
?
Regards to all,
?
Dan
?
|
The more people commented they are (and were) not affected, the more convinced I became this was something that involved and impacted only me.
?
Since by the process of elimination I'd ruled out my own hardware and software, I took the next logical step in the analysis process.
A few moments ago, I got off the phone with the tech support dept for my upline provider where I'd spent nearly a hour working with them to get this resolved. ?Turns out they are (or were) trying to implement a form of embedded VPN, and are using selected customers as guinea pigs. ?Problem is, they didn't tell their customers, including me. ?After some troubleshooting, it was determined that data streams for certain URLs are getting fractionally corrupted by their experimental VPN software. ?The flaw affected a fraction of sites, but not most others. ?Why there should be a difference with Groups.io groups, I don't know. ?Neither does my provider. ?They turned the function off on my end (it's firmware they downloaded into the modem), and as of a few minutes ago, I've regained normal "Owner" status on all four of my sites with no changes on my end.
?
The tech wizards at my provider don't know how this experimental VPN firmware was causing the problem I described, but whatever it is .. Groups.io servers and/or software interpreted the data in a manner that caused the inconsistency I described.
To be candid, I'm not sure Mark could have figured it out because the issue occurs at a deep level within the code, and perhaps at the server level either at the Groups.io site, or somewhere between. ?My provider's test code was downloaded into my modem yesterday. ?As we all know, Microsoft is infamous for bugs in their code. ?This one was at my provider's end, not with MS, and it affected all of my systems regardless of the operating system or browser.
?
Clearly this issue has stopped my provider from conducting any future testing until their glitch is corrected. ?They promised to tell me next time they try again, if ever.
?
I will send an update to the Groups.io support e-mail and let them know this has been resolved.
?
Thank you all for your input, comments, and suggestions.
?
Dan
?
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At this point, I suggest searching for any differences between your two groups that still show you as moderator and the two that don't. Differences could be in the history of the four groups or difference in the flavor of groups-io that the groups are using.
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The elusiveness of this phenomenon suggests to me that it could be the result of a transient race condition that caused an unexpected change to the state of two of your groups on the groups-io servers. I say this because I saw something like this on a completely unrelated system that my team developed and had us stumped for weeks until a pair of eagle eyes spotted an anomaly in the ordering of events in our internal logs. Since we wrote the code, it didn't take us too long to figure it after we saw it.
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Just a suggestion.
Best, Marv Waschke
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Bruce
Dallas N4DDM
Steve M
Thomas Gruber
KWKloeber
Christos Psarras
Marvin Waschke