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Enterprise Group site unavailable after small change? #bug

 

So I wanted to remove the ability for users to be able to request access to our enterprise groups from the main page.? I unchecked the box that seemed to be able to accomplish this and now our site is unavailable?? I have cleared my cookies and all other browsing data, also checked on mobile and other browsers.? An email to the support last night has gone unanswered.? Can anyone else see our groups?? Is there anything that I can do to get it back up and running?? ?

groups.mcrrc.org

groups.io not working.JPG

Re: Custom Invite Question

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 07:42 AM, Samuel Murray wrote:
I know that that was meant as a rhetorical question, but allow me to
answer it: this simple: all you need, is to send mails.
Um, that's the way it works now.? I have many members that have never been to the web site, doing everything via email.

Duane
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Re: Custom Invite Question

 

On 05 Jan 2020 14:08, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:

Your point about "not understanding the concept..." has some validity
but IMHO there has to be /some/ assumption of basic IT skills, and a
willingness to learn more.
No, I don't think it's fair to expect of potential users to have a
specific type of computer skill before they're allowed to join. Though
obviously, moderators love users who are able to help themselves. Not
everyone who uses computers every day knows much about computers.

One problem is that users who struggle, often do not ask for help. When
such users hit a barrier, they simply abandon their attempt to join,
which means that the value of their participation is lost to the group.

Just how basic do people want Groups.io to be?
I know that that was meant as a rhetorical question, but allow me to
answer it: this simple: all you need, is to send mails. The gnomes
takes care of the rest.

Samuel
Re: Custom Invite Question

 

My experience with invites is that the invitee wants to know the the invite is real and not spam. If you use a generic email address and name they question if the invite is real.
I put my real name and even my phone number. Even then I will get a call to check to see if it is real.
Tom

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 7:21 AM Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12=[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:38 PM, Samuel Murray wrote:
Another common scenario is when someone wants to join but struggles to understand how to join. Not everyone understands the concept of issuing commands to a server by sending mail to special kinds of addresses.
Um. What's difficult about clicking on "Join this Group"? Your point about "not understanding the concept..." has some validity but IMHO there has to be some assumption of basic IT skills, and a willingness to learn more. Just how basic do people want Groups.io to be?

Chris

Re: Custom Invite Question

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:38 PM, Samuel Murray wrote:
Another common scenario is when someone wants to join but struggles to understand how to join. Not everyone understands the concept of issuing commands to a server by sending mail to special kinds of addresses.
Um. What's difficult about clicking on "Join this Group"? Your point about "not understanding the concept..." has some validity but IMHO there has to be some assumption of basic IT skills, and a willingness to learn more. Just how basic do people want Groups.io to be?

Chris
Re: Question about a texting function [news about Chat?]

 

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:23 PM, Don Grass wrote:
since you mentioned Chat has there been anything new on that yet? Any improvements yet or in the near future?
Nothing has changed that I'm aware of.? I tried using it a couple of times, but didn't find it useful - email works better for me.? If any improvements are made, I suspect it will be way down the line.

Duane
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Re: Custom Invite Question

 

On 05 Jan 2020 13:09, Duane wrote:

An invitation assumes that you've already checked people out and want
them on your group, so acceptance allows them in.
No, I disagree.

An invitation is simply a way to facilitate joining the group. The fact
that you "invite" someone doesn't mean that you know them or that you
have already vetted them or that you already know everything about them.

In fact, it's often better to invite before vetting, because you don't
know in advance if the person will accept the invitation, and if they
don't, then you've wasted the time spent on vetting.

A common invitation scenario is when someone hears about the group from
someone else, and then that person requests that you send the person an
invitation. This means that the invited person does come with some kind
of recommendation, but it doesn't yet mean the person is now vetted.

Another common scenario is when someone wants to join but struggles to understand how to join. Not everyone understands the concept of issuing commands to a server by sending mail to special kinds of addresses.

If you need to do more pre-checking, you'll need to do it before
sending an invitation.
Yes, that is the way Groups.io currently forces us to do it, but that
does not make it logical or ideal.

Samuel
Re: Custom Invite Question

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:45 AM, Cindy in DE wrote:
If they click on the link "accept the invitation" they automatically become a member of our group, no approval needed, boom they are in.
First of all, no one from GIO management is on this group.? If you want to make suggestions for changes or improvements, you need to post on the .

An invitation assumes that you've already checked people out and want them on your group, so acceptance allows them in.? If you need to do more pre-checking, you'll need to do it before sending an invitation.? You could send an email (from a personal/club/business address) with a link to join the group, then use the Pending Subscriber notice to ask specific questions when they apply.

To "fix" the From problem, you can temporarily change your Display Name to something like Owner, send the invitations, then change it back.? I know of several people that have done this.? It's inconvenient, but shouldn't be needed too often.

Duane
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Re: Disable or Hide "Emailed Photos" Library #question

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 12:45 AM, JeffH wrote:
Is there a method for submitting enhancement requests?
You can post suggestions on the where they'll be seen by GIO management.? Like Chris, I don't see what the problem could be.? Any attachment is already visible to the group members, so hiding the album wouldn't accomplish anything.? Deleting it wouldn't make any sense because there'd be no place for attachments to be stored (or it would be recreated when a new one came in.)

Duane
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Re: Disable or Hide "Emailed Photos" Library #question

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 06:45 AM, JeffH wrote:
admins should be able to either delete or hide any album(s) altogether.
Why exactly? What actual problems arise from the emailed photos album being visible?

Chris
Re: Groups.io navigation (was Calendar time problem)

 

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Hi Shal,

Same as before: ?comments below in bold and “< >” for clarity of reference.

WRB


On Jan 4, 2020, at 11:17 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

WRB,

> In Sandy's case (and mine), we didn’t understand that the word
> “Account” as used by Frances was an unintended “code word” for
> whatever we had named our “Account”.

We're a bit into the weeds now, but yes there was an unspoken assumption that readers would see that their name/address in the upper right corner is a menu, and that Account would be an item in the menu. One of the myriad places where a screen shot is worth a thousand word

<OK, but one doesn’t have the benefit of a screen shot when looking for their?“Account”, particularly if they are new to group ownership. ?Everyone is a newbie once. ?It would be instantly obvious if it were?“Account: ?followed by (unique identifier chosen)>


> As I said “there was confusion" (on my part).? I was able to mentally
> figure out what you said on my own.? Got it!

Maybe that speaks to a need for an introductory page in GMF's wiki about basic navigation, illustrating the main areas and what to look for.

<Count me in 10% for that. ?I’d even help to such extent as time permits.>

> Aren't “User account”,?“subscriber account”?and?“member account” the
> same, as opposed to?“group/owner account”?

I used "User account" as a generic - regardless of what role that user might have in any given group, or even whether that user (email address) has any group subscriptions at all.

<I think?“email address” would have been best?here. ?THEN the differences become self-evident with WHERE and HOW that is used (and for what?purpose).>

It is possible for a person to use the Sign Up link and create an account for him/herself before joining (subscribing to) any groups. Seen in the upper right corner if you are not currently logged in:
<nplghcpccljobcne.png>
In this sense an account is just an account. There is no distinction among accounts based on what role that account might have in any given group. Your email address (account) may be subscribed to any number of groups, and have various Roles in those groups.

<OK, I can see the amazing flexibility this creates, but the dark side is the inseparable complexity. ?Ability without purpose or structure is useless.>

An owner (or moderator) of a group is also a member of the group. In some contexts it makes sense to distinguish between a member who has no elevated Role in the group, and one who is has the role of Moderator or Owner. But we don't have a separate term for the role of Member, qua Member, so people sometimes say non-Owner/Mod or other circumlocutions for that Role specifically.
<How about Subscriber, Moderator and Owner? ?Thus, titles would be used only when some purpose is served.>

> It seems to me that everyone in the world is a?“?future member
> without a account” until they set one up.

Or until the system sets one up for them.

<Well, duh! ?Never thought of that. ?What is coming across to me more than?anything else is that there is a “management presumption” that everyone wants (and gets) the keys to every vehicle in the Army, Navy and Air Force upon enlistment. ?Wow! ?Where would you start? ?

I’ve had a Mac since 1985, worked for consulting engineers?on large commercial projects,?and as a Project Manager. ?I have founded and administered a small business (later sold successfully) without ever employing an accountant. ?I've created databases in Helix, the most complex combining a list of current owners and another with everything known about every airframe (between 5,000 and 6,000) of a particular aircraft ever manufactured (and some with serial numbers that weren’t). ?

I’ve been on the internet and in groups since 2002, and run two of approximately 1,000 members for 6+ years; so this "ain’t my first rodeo”. ?Nonetheless, I was just as confused over the?“account” discussed herein as Sandy was.

Yes, some of those new to? need a LOT more help with navigating the site. ?Think of that level of help as?“learning to crawl”. ?But most of your helpers are more like sprinters or marathon runners in terms of technical experience and abilities. ?

The perception and communication?level of those needing help and those providing it are completely different and it takes mutual effort to make it effective. ?Exchanges are most efficient and informative when user?“needs” and?“solutions” can be reduced to terms clear to both helper and those helped

Initially I only sought here what I?“needed to know” to get my group functioning basically the way it did on Yahoo. ?I would compare my experience to trying to drink water from a fire hose! ?


This is an aspect of that sometimes bends peoples minds, but it is well to understand it. Any time an email address subscribes to a group, no matter how that comes about, the system will set up an account for that address if it does not already have one. It is not possible to be a subscriber to a group without an account -- though it is quite possible for a subscriber not to have logged in to their account (yet).

> Perhaps this provision serves those groups with membership
> “qualifications" that must be met before one can?“join”?

It serves all types of groups. The controls in the Default Sub Settings tab of a group's Settings page apply to the new member's Subscription at the moment an address first subscribes to the group.

Most of them anyway. There are three special ones, Timezone, Time Display, and Date Display that say "Only set for new users". These apply to the newly (automatically) created Account for those user addresses which didn't already have an account.

Shal

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Re: Disable or Hide "Emailed Photos" Library #question

 

Hi Duane,

Thank you for your response. Is there a method for submitting enhancement requests?

With all due respect, disabling attachments at the global group settings is not an acceptable solution to this.

As an administrator, I should be able to choose which albums are visible, or not. I can delete any albums I create - admins should be able to either delete or hide any album(s) altogether.

-JeffH
Custom Invite Question

Cindy in DE
 

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Hi,

When you create a custom invite, io adds a header and a footer to the message.? Ok we can live with that you have to cover yourselves with certain words.

But I have an issue.? Even though we want to send out a batch invite to all of our old YG members, we want to have to approve their memberships. So if they click on our link in the message or reply to the email invite all is well.? They will show up in our queue as pending.??We do have our group settings set to subscriptions require approval

But in your footer you say:

To accept the invitation, please reply to this email, or you may on the website.

If they click on the link "accept the invitation" they automatically become a member of our group, no approval needed, boom they are in.? That's not good for us. (I know we invited but we still want to do some screening)? We want to see what they put in their profile.? That they put in a display name and that their signature they put in, if they do, does not violate our policies.? Although with a big group we hope will join (approximately 10,000 members) we cant police ongoing signature issues unless reported or seen, we can head them off to begin with with requiring all approvals.

So...? can we have that link removed from the footer of the invitation?

We would also like say the invite is coming from the Administrators rather than the particular person that is sending the invitation.? I as an owner sending the invitation, you insert my name as the person inviting.? I'd rather it say the Administrator or Owner and not my name.? But the other issue is more important.? I can probably temporarily change my display name and send out the invites and then change my display name back.? But is that really needed?

Thanks for any help if we can delete that link from the invite if possible.?
?
?o? Cindy ?o?
Re: Groups.io navigation (was Calendar time problem)

 

One last word on this.

In my case, I ignored the long-ago advice of my techie son to always look around and try everything on a new site. I am very non-techie, and a woman of a certain age, and I just didn't realize that my "name tab" (as I thought of it) might have a purpose.

Thanks to Shal and his patient instructions, I found just what I needed to.

So many thanks to him and to all of you wonderful people here who take the time and give their expertise to make life easier for others. I only hope for you all that should you ever need help of any kind, there's someone there to offer it to you. You deserve it.

Sandy
Re: Groups.io navigation (was Calendar time problem)

 

WRB,

> In Sandy's case (and mine), we didn’t understand that the word
> “Account” as used by Frances was an unintended “code word” for
> whatever we had named our “Account”.

We're a bit into the weeds now, but yes there was an unspoken assumption that readers would see that their name/address in the upper right corner is a menu, and that Account would be an item in the menu. One of the myriad places where a screen shot is worth a thousand words:

> As I said “there was confusion" (on my part).? I was able to mentally
> figure out what you said on my own.? Got it!

Maybe that speaks to a need for an introductory page in GMF's wiki about basic navigation, illustrating the main areas and what to look for.

> Aren't “User account”,?“subscriber account”?and?“member account” the
> same, as opposed to?“group/owner account”?

I used "User account" as a generic - regardless of what role that user might have in any given group, or even whether that user (email address) has any group subscriptions at all.

It is possible for a person to use the Sign Up link and create an account for him/herself before joining (subscribing to) any groups. Seen in the upper right corner if you are not currently logged in:
In this sense an account is just an account. There is no distinction among accounts based on what role that account might have in any given group. Your email address (account) may be subscribed to any number of groups, and have various Roles in those groups.

An owner (or moderator) of a group is also a member of the group. In some contexts it makes sense to distinguish between a member who has no elevated Role in the group, and one who is has the role of Moderator or Owner. But we don't have a separate term for the role of Member, qua Member, so people sometimes say non-Owner/Mod or other circumlocutions for that Role specifically.
> It seems to me that everyone in the world is a?“?future member
> without a Group.io account” until they set one up.

Or until the system sets one up for them.

This is an aspect of Groups.io that sometimes bends peoples minds, but it is well to understand it. Any time an email address subscribes to a group, no matter how that comes about, the system will set up an account for that address if it does not already have one. It is not possible to be a subscriber to a group without an account -- though it is quite possible for a subscriber not to have logged in to their account (yet).

> Perhaps this provision serves those groups with membership
> “qualifications" that must be met before one can?“join”?

It serves all types of groups. The controls in the Default Sub Settings tab of a group's Settings page apply to the new member's Subscription at the moment an address first subscribes to the group.

Most of them anyway. There are three special ones, Timezone, Time Display, and Date Display that say "Only set for new users". These apply to the newly (automatically) created Account for those user addresses which didn't already have an account.
Shal

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Re: Groups.io navigation (was Calendar time problem)

 

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Hi Shal,

Comments below in bold and “< >” for clarity of reference.

WRB

On Jan 4, 2020, at 7:47 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

WRB,

> Agreed, but these things are NOT in the “upper right corner” (as
> originally suggested).

But that's how you get to them - you drop the menu under your name, in the upper right corner, and select Account.

<Frances was responding to Otto-N4UZZ: ?“You can change your time zone in Account - upper right corner of the your home page.” ?

What I SHOULD said to Sandy: ?“At the top of any page there is?a horizontal blue “menu”. ?At the extreme right should be whatever you have “named” YOUR “account”. ?In my case it’s “”.”

In Sandy's case (and mine), we didn’t understand that the word “Account” as used by Frances was an unintended “code word” for whatever we had named our “Account”. ?So yeah, we were at the right place; but no better off than being at the right house/address with no key to get in and no one home. ?We’ve yet to hear how Otto fared ?;<) ?>

> Further, there was confusion as to WHICH settings were before me…those
> for MY ACCOUNT, those for MY GROUP

If the links on the left show that you are on the Settings page then it is the Settings page for that particular group (or subgroup).

You'll quickly get to recognize which collection of Nav links you have on the left: Group, Account, or Site.

<As I said?“there was confusion" (on my part). ?I was able to mentally figure out what you said on my own. ?Got it!>

> of for the GROUP CALENDAR, each having a different purpose and effect.

That one is a special case.

On any group's Calendar page there is a duplicate of your account's Time Zone setting. It is there for your convenience so that you don't have to navigate to your Account Preferences and back if you need to change your time zone. This setting does not affect other members of your group (but does affect your view of any group you visit).

<Good to know if I ever use the Calendar.>

> My original response revealed that I wanted to verify the setting [I
> thought I had picked] for MY GROUP.

A group does not have a time zone setting, only its members do. That's because group members may reside anywhere.

<Makes sense.>

> Michael, you said that “This sets the defaults for future members”. ?I
> find that phrasing both specific and peculiar. ?It was my intent, as
> Owner, to set the GROUP default for ALL GROUP members.

The Time Zone, Time Display, and Date Display are account (per user) settings, not group or subscriber settings.

<Aren't “User account”,?“subscriber account”?and?“member account” the same, as opposed to?“group/owner account”?>

In the Default Sub Settings tab of the group's settings page they set a default for new users - addresses that have never had an account at .

<You here collectively define?“ ..new users" [as] addresses that have never had an account at . ?It seems to me that everyone in the world is a?“?future member without a account” until they set one up. ?Perhaps this provision serves those groups with membership?“qualifications" that must be met before one can?“join”?>

Shal
Re: Question about a texting function [news about Chat?]

 

Not to change the subject here, but since you mentioned Chat has there been anything new on that yet? Any improvements yet or in the near future?

Don


[Subject changed by moderator ;-) ]
Re: Member in membership not recognized by Groups.io

 

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:35 PM, dan mulholland wrote:
Stuck on a problem with one user.? The? user is receiving posts from? the group list.? The user is in the list of members, all appears to be in order.? Yet, when this user attempts to post a message, he is "moderated"; approval by? myself by replying to the message works, once, but then the next message he tries is held up again.? The user is? unable to create a login because the email address is not recognized.? I've checked every letter of the email address; the? user address matches the one in the directory.? Any ideas on where the error lies?

Have you checked the activity in Admin (left side) menu)?
Also go to Members in Admin and check there.?


Also when he gets a post, he should look at the bottom of the email (footer) which gives his email address.?It is possible he has two accounts.?
Or his email is auto-completing with the Yahoo email address?

Frances


?
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Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers
Re: Significance of the color of Hashtags?

 

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 10:36 PM, Rick Nakroshis wrote:
n the Beta group, there are four different colors, as well as four empty spots where a hashtag would otherwise be displayed.

What do the different colors mean?

It is up to you. Red could mean urgent or Christmas! ?You can edit hashtags in the menu on the left side of a group page.?

Owners can restrict use or creating of hashtags I. Admin Settings.?

Frances

?
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Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers
Significance of the color of Hashtags?

 

In this group, looking at "Hashtags" shows that only one of them is something other than blue.? In the Beta group, there are four different colors, as well as four empty spots where a hashtag would otherwise be displayed.

What do the different colors mean?

Rick
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