Hi Shal,
Same as before: ?comments below in bold and “< >” for clarity of reference.
WRB
On Jan 4, 2020, at 11:17 PM, Shal Farley <
shals2nd@...> wrote:
WRB,
> In Sandy's case (and mine), we didn’t understand that the word
> “Account” as used by Frances was an unintended “code word” for
> whatever we had named our “Account”.
We're a bit into the weeds now, but yes there was an unspoken assumption that readers would see that their name/address in the upper right corner is a menu, and that Account would be an item in the menu. One of the myriad places where a screen shot is worth a thousand word
<OK, but one doesn’t have the benefit of a screen shot when looking for their?“Account”, particularly if they are new to group ownership. ?Everyone is a newbie once. ?It would be instantly obvious if it were?“Account: ?followed by (unique identifier chosen)>
> As I said “there was confusion" (on my part).? I was able to mentally
> figure out what you said on my own.? Got it!
Maybe that speaks to a need for an introductory page in GMF's wiki about basic navigation, illustrating the main areas and what to look for.
<Count me in 10% for that. ?I’d even help to such extent as time permits.>
> Aren't “User account”,?“subscriber account”?and?“member account” the
> same, as opposed to?“group/owner account”?
I used "User account" as a generic - regardless of what role that user might have in any given group, or even whether that user (email address) has any group subscriptions at all.
<I think?“email address” would have been best?here. ?THEN the differences become self-evident with WHERE and HOW that is used (and for what?purpose).>
It is possible for a person to use the Sign Up link and create an account for him/herself before joining (subscribing to) any groups. Seen in the upper right corner if you are not currently logged in:
<nplghcpccljobcne.png>
In this sense an account is just an account. There is no distinction among accounts based on what role that account might have in any given group. Your email address (account) may be subscribed to any number of groups, and have various Roles in those groups.
<OK, I can see the amazing flexibility this creates, but the dark side is the inseparable complexity. ?Ability without purpose or structure is useless.>
An owner (or moderator) of a group is also a member of the group. In some contexts it makes sense to distinguish between a member who has no elevated Role in the group, and one who is has the role of Moderator or Owner. But we don't have a separate term for the role of Member, qua Member, so people sometimes say non-Owner/Mod or other circumlocutions for that Role specifically.
<How about Subscriber, Moderator and Owner? ?Thus, titles would be used only when some purpose is served.>
> It seems to me that everyone in the world is a?“?future member
> without a account” until they set one up.
Or until the system sets one up for them.
<Well, duh! ?Never thought of that. ?What is coming across to me more than?anything else is that there is a “management presumption” that everyone wants (and gets) the keys to every vehicle in the Army, Navy and Air Force upon enlistment. ?Wow! ?Where would you start? ?
I’ve had a Mac since 1985, worked for consulting engineers?on large commercial projects,?and as a Project Manager. ?I have founded and administered a small business (later sold successfully) without ever employing an accountant. ?I've created databases in Helix, the most complex combining a list of current owners and another with everything known about every airframe (between 5,000 and 6,000) of a particular aircraft ever manufactured (and some with serial numbers that weren’t). ?
I’ve been on the internet and in groups since 2002, and run two of approximately 1,000 members for 6+ years; so this "ain’t my first rodeo”. ?Nonetheless, I was just as confused over the?“account” discussed herein as Sandy was.
Yes, some of those new to? need a LOT more help with navigating the site. ?Think of that level of help as?“learning to crawl”. ?But most of your helpers are more like sprinters or marathon runners in terms of technical experience and abilities. ?
The perception and communication?level of those needing help and those providing it are completely different and it takes mutual effort to make it effective. ?Exchanges are most efficient and informative when user?“needs” and?“solutions” can be reduced to terms clear to both helper and those helped
Initially I only sought here what I?“needed to know” to get my group functioning basically the way it did on Yahoo. ?I would compare my experience to trying to drink water from a fire hose! ?
This is an aspect of that sometimes bends peoples minds, but it is well to understand it. Any time an email address subscribes to a group, no matter how that comes about, the system will set up an account for that address if it does not already have one. It is not possible to be a subscriber to a group without an account -- though it is quite possible for a subscriber not to have logged in to their account (yet).
> Perhaps this provision serves those groups with membership
> “qualifications" that must be met before one can?“join”?
It serves all types of groups. The controls in the Default Sub Settings tab of a group's Settings page apply to the new member's Subscription at the moment an address first subscribes to the group.
Most of them anyway. There are three special ones, Timezone, Time Display, and Date Display that say "Only set for new users". These apply to the newly (automatically) created Account for those user addresses which didn't already have an account.
