Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
On Mar 27, 2025, at 9:33?AM, Jim Saklad via groups.io <jimdoc@...> wrote:
Start the sleep schedule a little before you actually usually go to sleep, and end it a little after you usually get up. If you nap outside those limits (e.g., afternoon) it will note the ties but not analyze the details.
I’ve done that, which is WHY I stated that I think I’ve done everything I’m supposed to do, but my schedule DOES explain why my occasional afternoon naps get recorded in pastel blue rectangular blocks.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
… or WHY it is that I must MANUALLY activate the watch’s “Sleep” app each night in order to have it guess my sleep stages (I’ve NEVER purposefully terminated it. I checked my Watch Settings on my phone, and they don’t seem to require manual launching of the Watch’s “Sleep” app).
I am guessing that it is because you haven’t set up anything AUTOMATIC. Did you try my suggestion from March 25th?
I’m currently on a original Ultra watch (since October 2022), but I was doing this with its predecessor as well.
Under Settings / Focus [on the iPhone] I have Sleep Focus set with a time schedule (in my case, 1AM to 9AM). Maybe that is what you need to do.
Or, on the watch, open that Sleep App, and scroll down until you get to “schedule”…
Start the sleep schedule a little before you actually usually go to sleep, and end it a little after you usually get up. If you nap outside those limits (e.g., afternoon) it will note the ties but not analyze the details.
jimdoc@...
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
On Mar 27, 2025, at 7:22?AM, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
Perhaps the following Apple Support article will help:
That DID help a bit, but also to me indicated that this part of the watch’s user interface is a horrid mess. If I double-click on the digital crown, a reduced-size image of the currently foreground “app” appears on the screen, identified solely by its app icon, and the display reverts to a list of ALL apps if I do nothing within the next few seconds. If I DO “swipe left” repetitively, ultimately I get to a screen that reports “recently used apps appear here,” but it’s still unclear whether that is actually a list of OPEN apps, or whether they self-terminate if memory requirements demand it, or WHY it is that I must MANUALLY activate the watch’s “Sleep” app each night in order to have it guess my sleep stages (I’ve NEVER purposefully terminated it. I checked my Watch Settings on my phone, and they don’t seem to require manual launching of the Watch’s “Sleep” app).
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
On Mar 26, 2025, at 3:20?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
So I don’t care that my “external drive” starts and stops.
It’s was a huge annoyance for me. On my M1 Mac Studio it causes a noticeable pause in Finder response anytime an action triggers the HDD drives to spin up. 9 times out of ?10, I don’t want data from that drive, but I’m still waiting because the system is waiting for the drive to come online.?It was pretty much the only time I ever had to wait for anything so it was glaringly frustrating.?It happened many, many times per day.?
Important note: ?The “Keep Drives Spinning” scripts do NOT keep drives from “sleeping” when the system sleeps. If the OS tells the drives to spin down, they do. No power wasted by drives spinning when the system is sleeping.
Some drives and connections are worse than others so experiences vary a lot. I’ve had this system for over two years, but only in recent months did the problem get unbearable. I spent a lot of time troubleshooting and could not find a specific cause or a solution other than this app. Directly attached portable drives don’t do this. It’s mostly cheap, large externals. Hubs make a difference, but none of these factors are easily controlled. I keep multiple drives attached all the time and change drives frequently. I never know when this is going to pop-up but once I tell the app to keep a drive active, it remembers that drive forever.
Cheers, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? tod
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
Perhaps the following Apple Support article will help:
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 12:32?PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I’ve confirmed to my own satisfaction that sleep tracking requires nightly “activation” of the Sleep app ON MY WATCH, which is the one thing that surprises me, but I don’t know whether the watchOS has a user interface that permits the user to tell what apps ON the watch are currently running.
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Bev in TX
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On 26 Mar 2025, at 10:49, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
On Mar 26, 2025, at 2:59 AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
What I’m asking is, “where does it tell us that this is for OS X 10.14?” At the link that I gave to start this discussion thread.
Scroll down to the bottom. Thanks, Randy. I didn’t go back far enough in this thread. Otto
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Brent wrote: > I am now retired, disabled, don’t get out of the house much, and broke.
Me too! But I'm somehow managing, with occasional help from family.
Brent wrote: > By using your own monitor, rather than the iMac, you can lower your cost, and if anything goes wrong with the display, is much cheaper to replace, if you don’t use an Apple display. One of the things that was failing on my MBP was the keyboard, once again. So a Mac mini makes good sense, especially if you are on a budget.
I've never even seen a Mac Mini. But I just now looked online. Cute! And you've convinced me that's probably the way for me to go. Until my most recent 2 iMacs, I had a desktop Mac and a non-Mac large display. I'll pay more attention now. And definitely consult this group when the time has come for a new computer.
Patsy
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
Thanks Tod for reminding me.?
I use a Drobo, a proprietary RAID, purchased in June of 2009. When plugged directly into my Mac, it runs most of the time and the proprietary diagnostics are able to work. When plugged into another device like an Airport that acts like a router, so my other Macs can access the data on it, it starts and stops, and the diagnostics can’t find it.?
Besides, what is the big deal if the external drive stops when not in use. It takes only a second to be accessible again. I have had the RAID in operation continuously for almost 16 years. In that time, I have only had one drive fail, and upgraded to larger drives. I love being able to hot swap the drives.
So I don’t care that my “external drive” starts and stops. In fact, the only physical maintenance other that to swap out the failed drive, has been to shut it down about once a year going into summer, to clean out the dust bunnies. And to be honest, my 2002 Quicksilver Power Mac G4’s internal fans that is under my desk, is noisier than my Drobo which is placed on a shelf pointed at my right ear.?
Brent ?
On my late 2012 Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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On Mar 26, 2025, at 8:29 AM, todhop < hoplist@...> wrote:
This is a major problem with newer macs and external HDDs, particularly if connected through a hub. That OS setting stops the OS from actively putting the drives to sleep, but it doesn’t keep them awake because modern external drives commonly? have their own spin down routines which this does not override.?The problem is worse when the drives are connected through a hub.?
You will see the “Adrenaline” app recommended for this. Don’t bother. Adrenaline does not solve this problem. It keeps the system awake but does not keep drives spinning.
I use the “Keep Drive Spinning” app.?
This app simply installs a resident script that periodically writes and rewrites a tiny hidden file to keep the drive activated. That is all it does. The app itself simply configures the scripts and installs them but does not need to run in the background. It is drive specific so you can configure only the drives you want. The app has been around for a very long time and has been continuously maintained by the developer.?
For a long time I kept one drive awake by continuously playing music from it, but that’s not a convenient solution. ;)
Cheers,
???????????????tod
Tod Hopkins
Video Producer?Editor?Technologist?
I have a new Mac Mini, 16/256 (currently 75 GB available) with the latest Sequoia update.? Attached to it is a hard drive enclosure that I’ve been using for a couple of years with a 2015 iMac, 16/1T running Monterey.? With the iMac the hard drives would spin up and stay running while the iMac was in use.? With the Mac Mini the drives spin up when I wake the Mini but are regularly spinning down and then almost immediately spinning up again. I have turned to OFF “Put hard disks to sleep when possible”. Any idea as to how to stop the drives from spinning up/down so frequently? ?I am hoping this may be due to the small internal storage, which I have ordered a 2TB replacement, and maybe this will solve the problem with the external drive.? ? Thanks in advance to responses.? Jim Willett ?
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
And as a long time Mac user, I was not able to identify or move around easily, as much of it was written in shorthand that a coder might use. It was like trying to read Gaelic, by a person of Slavic decent.?
Brent ?
On my late 2012 Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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On 26 Mar 2025, at 00:11, Randy B. Singer via <randy@...> wrote:
On Mar 25, 2025, at 5:24 AM, Otto Nikolaus via <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
How does one tell which of those applies to which macOS version anyway?
The source code is only for programmers. ?So it can be ignored
The other two files are compressed archives of exactly the same thing. ?Your choice of format. ?The one in Zip format is a bigger download (because they used a less effective compression method), but it’s should be a familiar format to every Mac user, as Zip is built into the Mac OS.
Thanks, Randy, but I know all that. What I’m asking is, “where does it tell us that this is for OS X 10.14?” Back to my AppleScript, JavaScript and Shell Script… Otto
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Everyone has different needs and preferences. I used to travel for work, and a MacBook Pro with the builtin trackpad was my preferred form. I have squeezed out about as much use as I can from a 2008 model, and a second display.
Like Jim S, my needs have changed. I am now retired, disabled, don’t get out of the house much, and broke. I was able to afford a used late 2012 Mac mini. That allowed me to move up to Catalina and have several browsers that are accepted on most web sites. I used Chrome Legacy only long enough to download the installers I needed to upgrade the OS.
I use a trackball, as mice cause me to get repetitive movement pains. YMMV. I would love to use a trackpad, but I have not found one in my current price range. I have several full-sized extended keyboards that I own. I ran an extended computation on 3 Macs for 10 years for cancer research.?
By using your own monitor, rather than the iMac, you can lower your cost, and if anything goes wrong with the display, is much cheaper to replace, if you don’t use an Apple display. One of the things that was failing on my MBP was the keyboard, once again. So a Mac mini makes good sense, especially if you are on a budget.?
Brent ?
On my late 2012 Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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Randy wrote:
> There is no reason why you have to purchase a Mac that is brand-new. ?You can save a bundle of money simply by purchasing a used or refurbished Mac that’s, let’s say only three years old. ?Such a Mac will probably last another nine or ten years.
Otto wrote: >For many years now I’ve preferred to buy MacBooks (Pro or Air). They are more than powerful enough for anything that we do, and are so much more flexible that a desktop computer. You can, of course, use a laptop/notebook on a desk if you prefer, and if the screen is a little small, you can use an external monitor instead of the built-in one.
Jim wrote: > When it came time to replace the computer, I decided to move to a desktop machine, and chose a Mac Mini.
When the time comes for a new Mac, I only want to continue to use it on my desk. I want a large screen, a separate full-size extended keyboard, and a mouse. (I hate touchpads! And can barely use the touchscreen on my phone.)? So that's probably another iMac. Or maybe, as Jim chose, a Mac Mini and a good display. I'd be very happy with a refurbished Mac. Of course I'd consult you all beforehand. Patsy
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
On Mar 25, 2025, at 2:51?PM, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
I don't have an Apple Watch, so I don't have any experience with tracking sleep in the Health app. ?I did find the following articles that may, or may not, be applicable:
Thanks SO much for that, Bev. I’ve confirmed to my own satisfaction that sleep tracking requires nightly “activation” of the Sleep app ON MY WATCH, which is the one thing that surprises me, but I don’t know whether the watchOS has a user interface that permits the user to tell what apps ON the watch are currently running.
The support group thread is pretty bizarre, with people complaining about Apple requiring people to buy a watch in order to track sleep. I’m amazed that those users think their phones can track their sleep while sitting in their chargers with no sensors activated on their bodies!
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
This is a major problem with newer macs and external HDDs, particularly if connected through a hub. That OS setting stops the OS from actively putting the drives to sleep, but it doesn’t keep them awake because modern external drives commonly? have their own spin down routines which this does not override.?The problem is worse when the drives are connected through a hub.?
You will see the “Adrenaline” app recommended for this. Don’t bother. Adrenaline does not solve this problem. It keeps the system awake but does not keep drives spinning.
I use the “Keep Drive Spinning” app.?
http://jon.stovell.info/software/keep-drive-spinning/
This app simply installs a resident script that periodically writes and rewrites a tiny hidden file to keep the drive activated. That is all it does. The app itself simply configures the scripts and installs them but does not need to run in the background. It is drive specific so you can configure only the drives you want. The app has been around for a very long time and has been continuously maintained by the developer.?
For a long time I kept one drive awake by continuously playing music from it, but that’s not a convenient solution. ;)
Cheers,
???????????????tod
Tod Hopkins
Video Producer?Editor?Technologist?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 22, 2025, at 9:18?AM, Jim Willett via groups.io <jimwillett@...> wrote:
I have a new Mac Mini, 16/256 (currently 75 GB available) with the latest Sequoia update.? Attached to it is a hard drive enclosure that I’ve been using for a couple of years with a 2015 iMac, 16/1T running Monterey.? With the iMac the hard drives would spin up and stay running while the iMac was in use.? With the Mac Mini the drives spin up when I wake the Mini but are regularly spinning down and then almost immediately spinning up again. I have turned to OFF “Put hard disks to sleep when possible”. Any idea as to how to stop the drives from spinning up/down so frequently? ?I am hoping this may be due to the small internal storage, which I have ordered a 2TB replacement, and maybe this will solve the problem with the external drive.? ? Thanks in advance to responses.? Jim Willett ?
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
I have an old Apple Watch that has the “SleepWatch” App loaded on it. It works seamlessly and I only have to put the watch on before I go to bed. It’s a subscription app but my Apple Watch is quite old without some of the more modern features. ?
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On Mar 26, 2025, at 2:59 AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
What I’m asking is, “where does it tell us that this is for OS X 10.14?” At the link that I gave to start this discussion thread. Scroll down to the bottom. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Randy wrote:
> There is no reason why you have to purchase a Mac that is brand-new. ?You can save a bundle of money simply by purchasing a used or refurbished Mac that’s, let’s say only three years old. ?Such a Mac will probably last another nine or ten years.
Otto wrote: >For many years now I’ve preferred to buy MacBooks (Pro or Air). They are more than powerful enough for anything that we do, and are so much more flexible that a desktop computer. You can, of course, use a laptop/notebook on a desk if you prefer, and if the screen is a little small, you can use an external monitor instead of the built-in one.
Jim wrote: > When it came time to replace the computer, I decided to move to a desktop machine, and chose a Mac Mini.
When the time comes for a new Mac, I only want to continue to use it on my desk. I want a large screen, a separate full-size extended keyboard, and a mouse. (I hate touchpads! And can barely use the touchscreen on my phone.)? So that's probably another iMac. Or maybe, as Jim chose, a Mac Mini and a good display. I'd be very happy with a refurbished Mac. Of course I'd consult you all beforehand.
Perhaps it’s a bad habit but I mostly use my MB Pro on my lap, sitting on the couch. Having it this close also means that the 15” screen is easily large enough. ;-)
Otto
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On 26 Mar 2025, at 00:11, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
On Mar 25, 2025, at 5:24 AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
How does one tell which of those applies to which macOS version anyway? The source code is only for programmers. So it can be ignored
The other two files are compressed archives of exactly the same thing. Your choice of format. The one in Zip format is a bigger download (because they used a less effective compression method), but it’s should be a familiar format to every Mac user, as Zip is built into the Mac OS. Thanks, Randy, but I know all that. What I’m asking is, “where does it tell us that this is for OS X 10.14?” Back to my AppleScript, JavaScript and Shell Script… Otto
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Randy wrote:
> There is no reason why you have to purchase a Mac that is brand-new. ?You can save a bundle of money simply by purchasing a used or refurbished Mac that’s, let’s say only three years old. ?Such a Mac will probably last another nine or ten years.
Otto wrote: >For many years now I’ve preferred to buy MacBooks (Pro or Air). They are more than powerful enough for anything that we do, and are so much more flexible that a desktop computer. You can, of course, use a laptop/notebook on a desk if you prefer, and if the screen is a little small, you can use an external monitor instead of the built-in one.
Jim wrote: > When it came time to replace the computer, I decided to move to a desktop machine, and chose a Mac Mini.
When the time comes for a new Mac, I only want to continue to use it on my desk. I want a large screen, a separate full-size extended keyboard, and a mouse. (I hate touchpads! And can barely use the touchscreen on my phone.)? So that's probably another iMac. Or maybe, as Jim chose, a Mac Mini and a good display. I'd be very happy with a refurbished Mac. Of course I'd consult you all beforehand. Patsy
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
Jim Robertson?wrote: I have central sleep apnea, for which I sleep using an “ASV” (automated servo-ventilation) machine. Recently, for no reason other than “I can,” I started using the iOS and watchOS “Health” apps to track my sleep stages (light, deep, and REM), but it seems I must MANUALLY activate the “Sleep” app on my watch in order for that to work. Is that how it should be? Both watchOS and iOS are current. My phone is a 14Pro and my watch is a Series 7 (GPS + Cellular). If I don’t do that, my phone shows interrupted blocks of time all in turquoise color and DRAMATICALLY overstates my sleep time, including even times when I’m up and walking around.
Has anyone else tried using this? It seems bizarrely inaccurate (again, unless the last thing I do when getting into bed is to MANUALLY ?trigger the “Sleep” app on my watch.
For several years I have had morning discomfort in my back if I sleep, as I have most of my life, on my side, and if I lay flat on my back in bed, I *will* have obstructive sleep apnea.
My solution has been to sleep in my La-Z-Boy recliner, with my head elevated in the 30-45° range. I may snore occasionally, but this seems to work to prevent OSA for me.
I wear my Apple Watch nearly every night, and often check my sleep analysis in the Health App in the morning after I get up – or after the last sleep period after the last time I got up to void…
I not uncommonly take a nap in the late afternoon.
Here is a typical display for me:
The undifferentiated section on the left is my daytime nap (on the 24th), While the differentiated bulk of the display is my overnight sleep (starting around 2 AM).
I’m currently on a original Ultra watch (since October 2022), but I was doing this with its predecessor as well.
Under Settings / Focus I have Sleep Focus set with a time schedule (in my case, 1AM to 9AM). Maybe that is what you need to do. Or, on the watch, open that Sleep App, and scroll down until you get to “schedule”…
jimdoc@...
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On Mar 25, 2025, at 5:24 AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
How does one tell which of those applies to which macOS version anyway? The source code is only for programmers. So it can be ignored The other two files are compressed archives of exactly the same thing. Your choice of format. The one in Zip format is a bigger download (because they used a less effective compression method), but it’s should be a familiar format to every Mac user, as Zip is built into the Mac OS. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Tracking sleep in iOS/watchOS
I don't have an Apple Watch, so I don't have any experience with tracking sleep in the Health app. I did find the following articles that may, or may not, be applicable:
Estimating Sleep Stages from Apple Watch
Track your sleep on Apple Watch and use Sleep on iPhone
Discussion in Apple Communities re iOS 18 affecting sleep tracking. Specifically, see Sonar's and Cosmos1179's comments...
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On Mar 25, 2025, at 12:57?PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I have central sleep apnea, for which I sleep using an “ASV” (automated servo-ventilation) machine. Recently, for no reason other than “I can,” I started using the iOS and watchOS “Health” apps to track my sleep stages (light, deep, and REM), but it seems I must MANUALLY activate the “Sleep” app on my watch in order for that to work. Is that how it should be? Both watchOS and iOS are current. My phone is a 14Pro and my watch is a Series 7 (GPS + Cellular). If I don’t do that, my phone shows interrupted blocks of time all in turquoise color and DRAMATICALLY overstates my sleep time, including even times when I’m up and walking around.
Has anyone else tried using this? It seems bizarrely inaccurate (again, unless the last thing I do when getting into bed is to MANUALLY trigger the “Sleep” app on my watch.
--
Bev in TX
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Jim Saklad
todhop
Brent