Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
0Otto Nikolaus wrote: For many years now I’ve preferred to buy MacBooks (Pro or Air). They are more than powerful enough for anything that we do, and are so much more flexible that a desktop computer. You can, of course, use a laptop/notebook on a desk if you prefer, and if the screen is a little small, you can use an external monitor instead of the built-in one.
From 1998 to 2022 I got used to a portable computer with a 13-15” screen. As I aged, I realized I no longer much needed portability, but the laptop ergonomics were getting bothersome.
My first step was to get a good monitor (I got a 24” LG 4K model; at my desk I don’t sit far enough from the monitor to need a 27” one). And a separate keyboard and trackpad.
And I used my last Macbook Pro (2013 model) in clamshell mode.
When it came time to replace the computer, I decided to move to a desktop machine, and chose a Mac Mini.
I have no problem continuing to use the monitor, keyboard, and trackpad long after I’ve decided to upgrade the computer; my next move will be to replace the desktop computer with, likely, a Macbook Air.
Did you realize that an M4 Macbook Air is MORE powerful in most benchmarks than an M1 Max Mac Studio?
jimdoc@...
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On the matter of browsers with High Sierra, there is the rare occasion where a site doesn’t like Safari, and in those cases I’ve used Chrome or Firefox. ?I don’t recall how I found Chrome, but it would have been a web search for Chrome on High Sierra.
?
On backups, I’ve had the odd hiccup with Time Machine, and so, now and then, do a straight copy of documents onto an external drive. ? That has worked going back to the Atari 520.
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Yea, I had to ask for help, and would need help to to it again, and I’m only 71.
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
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On Mar 23, 2025, at 22:48, Patsy Price via groups.io <beyondwords@...> wrote:
I followed those links but couldn't figure out how to download that Chromium. Brent may have eventually navigated those pages, but they're a complete mystery to me. Help!
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Re: Finder Not Responding
Has anyone noticed the red marker on this Google search page?
Can anyone here actually vouch for 'John Daniel'?
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On 24 Mar 2025, at 09:53, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
There is no reason why you have to purchase a Mac that is brand-new. You can save a bundle of money simply by purchasing a used or refurbished Mac that’s, let’s say only three years old. Such a Mac will probably last another nine or ten years. For many years now I’ve preferred to buy MacBooks (Pro or Air). They are more than powerful enough for anything that we do, and are so much more flexible that a desktop computer. You can, of course, use a laptop/notebook on a desk if you prefer, and if the screen is a little small, you can use an external monitor instead of the built-in one. Ours are 2012 models and we are likely to buy newer (not new but nearly so) ones in the next year or so... Otto
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
On Mar 23, 2025, at 11:00 PM, Patsy Price via groups.io <beyondwords@...> wrote:
Migration Assistant would be wonderful. How will I know when I need a new Mac? I'll come back to you then, You’ll know that you need a new Mac because it will become impossible to find a browser that is reliably compatible with all the Web sites you visit. You may also find that your Mac is no longer compatible with modern software that you want to run and/or some of your existing software won’t be compatible with the Internet or common file formats. The common term for all this is “technology drift.” It means that your computer is too old to remain compatible with what you want to do.
I see that the 27" has been discontinued.
Apple is rumored to be working on a new large-screen iMac. No way to know when it might be released though. And new iMacs are very expensive. I don't have that kind of money. My partner bought this iMac for me before he retired and his income dropped. He has no patience with Macs. I'm afraid my next computer will have Windows, and I'll have to learn that. There is no reason why you have to purchase a Mac that is brand-new. You can save a bundle of money simply by purchasing a used or refurbished Mac that’s, let’s say only three years old. Such a Mac will probably last another nine or ten years. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Randy wrote: >When the day comes that she has ?purchased a new Mac, she can use Migration Assistant to move all of her data to a new Mac.??
Migration Assistant would be wonderful. How will I know when I need a new Mac? I'll come back to you then,
I see that the 27" has been discontinued. And new iMacs are very expensive. I don't have that kind of money. My partner bought this iMac for me before he retired and his income dropped. He has no patience with Macs. I'm afraid my next computer will have Windows, and I'll have to learn that.
I started with an Apple IIe. Then an original Mac II with a large display. And Macs ever since. I want to stay with Macs and large screens!
Patsy
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
About browsers: I still use Brave and Safari for sites where they still work. For other sites I use Chrome: Version 116.0.5845.187 (Official Build) (x86_64).? So far I've only run into a couple of sites that had reduced function in my Chrome. But every time I use it it gives me this message: "To get future Google Chrome updates, you'll need macOS 10.15 or later."
Randy wrote: >For now all that she needs is to download a Web browser that works reliably under High Sierra. >>This one is made to order:
> >Chromium-legacy (free) >"(Chrome stable channel)" for Mac OS X 10.7 to macOS 10.14 >https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy >Download page: >https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy/releases I followed those links but couldn't figure out how to download that Chromium.? Brent may have eventually navigated those pages, but they're a complete mystery to me. Help!
Patsy
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2017 iMac
Bayswater wrote:
>> If the problem is browsers that are not supported, perhaps all you need to to is update the browser.
Randy B Singer wrote: >I very much agree. ?I think that Patsy will be overwhelmed by backing up, upgrading her OS, ?and then sorting out all of her software that needs to be replaced.
>I used to recommend that folks routinely upgrade their OS, but now I recommend that you stand pat unless there is something really important that a new OS will bring you. ?I especially recommend standing pat for seniors.
~~~
>For now all that she needs is to download a Web browser that works reliably under High Sierra.
Thank you Baywater and Randy!!!
I'm an 83-year-old senior with a brain that doesn't work as well as it used to. I'm now a slow learner. I'm even more stressed out by change than I used to be, and I'm easily overwhelmed. I've been overwhelmed by even the thought of upgrading my OS and doing everything else necessary. I'm quite relieved that I don't need to upgrade my OS now. I can stay with High Sierra!
To confirm, my computer is iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017). I should have checked that before starting this thread.
About backup: I have Time Machine. Only once, long ago, have I retrieved a file from Time Machine. For safety do I also need a clone even if I'm not upgrading my OS??
Next message about browsers.
Patsy
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
On Mar 23, 2025, at 7:10 AM, Jim Willett via groups.io <jimwillett@...> wrote:
I purchased it from an outfit called Expand Mac Mini. I do hope that you are aware that to successfully pull off the upgrade with this kit, that you will need access to another Apple Silicon Mac other than your new Mac mini? __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
Thank you, Bev for the corrections and your search methods. I am always trying to improve my methods, so comparing to others is usually a help. And yes, we all focus of different things.?
Another respondent suggested?Chromium-legacy, a browser upgrade. While navigating that site might be easy for him, it was not for me, and I am moderately tech-literate. Luckily I only needed it while I moved from Lion to Catalina.?
Brent ?
On my late 2012 Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
SEVEN WEEKS seems unconscionably long to ship a RAM module.
Jim Willett wrote: I purchased it from an outfit called Expand Mac Mini. I made the order on February 1 and still waiting. ?Their site said it was to be shipped this past week. Maybe tomorrow. ?
jimdoc@...
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
I purchased it from an outfit called Expand Mac Mini. I made the order on February 1 and still waiting. ?Their site said it was to be shipped this past week. Maybe tomorrow. ?
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
On Mar 22, 2025, at 7:23 AM, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
If the problem is browsers that are not supported, perhaps all you need to to is update the browser. I very much agree. I think that Patsy will be overwhelmed by backing up, upgrading her OS, and then sorting out all of her software that needs to be replaced. I used to recommend that folks routinely upgrade their OS, but now I recommend that you stand pat unless there is something really important that a new OS will bring you. I especially recommend standing pat for seniors. Patsy has an 8 year old Macintosh. She will likely need a new Mac in two to three years. When the day comes that she has purchased a new Mac, she can use Migration Assistant to move all of her data to a new Mac. For now all that she needs is to download a Web browser that works reliably under High Sierra. This one is made to order: Chromium-legacy (free) "(Chrome stable channel)" for Mac OS X 10.7 to macOS 10.14 Download page: __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
On Mar 22, 2025, at 6:18 AM, Jim Willett via groups.io <jimwillett@...> wrote:
I have a new Mac Mini, 16/256 ... I am hoping this may be due to the small internal storage, which I have ordered a 2TB replacement, and maybe this will solve the problem with the external drive. "New Mac mini’s" have internal SSD’s, of course. Apple considers them to be non-upgradeable. Though there are third party kits that allow upgrading if you go through some hoops. I’m just curious; who’s 2TB upgrade did you order? __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
I see that I made a mistake. ?When editing the way things looked, I accidentally combined macOS Monterey changes under Big Sur :-(. ?It should have said:
Big Sur: ... New Time Machine backup destinations are formatted as APFS.
Monterey: ... New Shortcuts app. ... Live Text, which allows a user to copy, paste, translate and look up text from images (something that I use almost every day). ... New Passwords Manager ... Visual Look Up makes it easy to identify objects (e.g. cat breeds, dog breeds, etc.) found within user's photos.
I captured most of it from Wikipedia. ?It has a general macOS page, as well as an individual one for almost all macOS versions. ?They have a Changes section on most of the individual macOS version pages. ?They often have extensive references to articles, which can be used to garner more info.
I tried to keep things short, so I omitted some items that may be very pertinent to some folks. ?For example, in Mojave the system drive is automatically converted from HFS+ to APFS, but all on the same volume. ?I didn't include that because she wants to upgrade to the latest possible version for her system, and that includes the automatic split of system and data to separate APFS volumes (Catalina). ?And some folks might find dark mode (Mojave) critical to them. ?(Strangely, I just realized that I always use dark mode on my iPad and iPhone, but not my Mac.) ?
For the latest macOS versions, Apple provides rather complete change lists on their "What's New in ..." webpages, but no references: Sequoia:? Sonoma:? Ventura:? Monterey:? Big Sur:?
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On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:31?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
I have added your notes on the changes to the various OSes to my spreadsheet, Please tell me, how you gathered them up. What search term did you use, or what source?
Interesting, I never found a need for Grab, and did not even notice that Screenshot.app replaced it, since I have been using screenshots keystrokes for ages.
We have slight variations in what we suggest, but it all depends on the individual their needs and their personal workflow.?
A clean install will remove any detritus left over from prior OSes and work, but this amounts to such a small amount of storage.It is almost never an issue, and I can’t cite a documented instance, where any of that left over bits caused a problem or conflict in operation. My opinion is that the leftover bits are the bits that a shared between multiple applications, _probably_ mostly third party software. Apple shares a lot of info and code between things like Contacts, Phone, Mail and Maps. Now think of Microsoft or Adobe, you may have several modules, and remove one. You don’t want to remove the shared code or data, because it would cripple the ones you are keeping, so the uninstallers are written to leave those shared bits.?
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Bev in TX
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
Thank you, Bev.
I have added your notes on the changes to the various OSes to my spreadsheet, Please tell me, how you gathered them up. What search term did you use, or what source?
Interesting, I never found a need for Grab, and did not even notice that Screenshot.app replaced it, since I have been using screenshots keystrokes for ages.
We have slight variations in what we suggest, but it all depends on the individual their needs and their personal workflow.?
A clean install will remove any detritus left over from prior OSes and work, but this amounts to such a small amount of storage.It is almost never an issue, and I can’t cite a documented instance, where any of that left over bits caused a problem or conflict in operation. My opinion is that the leftover bits are the bits that a shared between multiple applications, _probably_ mostly third party software. Apple shares a lot of info and code between things like Contacts, Phone, Mail and Maps. Now think of Microsoft or Adobe, you may have several modules, and remove one. You don’t want to remove the shared code or data, because it would cripple the ones you are keeping, so the uninstallers are written to leave those shared bits.?
Brent ?
On my late 2012 Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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Whichever way you do the upgrade,?please?backup your data before performing the upgrade. ?It is a major leap forward from macOS High Sierra 10.13 to macOS Ventura 13. ?Your system drive will automatically be reformatted as AFPS, with two (2) volumes, system and data (introduced in macOS 10.15 Catalina). ?Due to Apple's bidirectional firm links, the two volumes appear as one in Finder, but show separately in Disk Utility. ?
I don't use iCloud because I have a lot of data and it's a subscription service. ?So I always do two (2) separate backups: a clone and Time Machine. ?Another possibility is a cloud backup service such as Backblaze (I've never used them, I've only heard them mentioned). ?That's probably also a subscription.
Given the amount of data you have, you could make a clone on a 256 GB USB flash drive, as they are very inexpensive theses days. ?Randy always recommends SuperDuper, which is free to use without some of its bells and whistles that are probably unnecessary in this scenario.
Whichever way you do the backups, verify that you can recover data from them before doing the upgrade.
Erasing your disk is part of a clean upgrade, so it is a bit more involved than doing an upgrade in place. ?A fully clean upgrade would also include a new installation of any apps that don't come with macOS. ?Because of that, you would need to restore all data from backup and reset all of your system and app preferences/settings. ?I used my 2010 MacBook Pro for 10 years and never did a clean upgrade, all with no problems. ?Other folks always do clean upgrades, because they think that clean upgrades can prevent some kinds of problems.
Just a few of the other changes you'll see (far from complete): Mojave: ... Grab replaced by Screenshot app. ... New apps introduced: News, Stocks, Voice Memos and Home.
Catalina: ...?32-bit apps not supported.? ... iTunes was replaced by separate Music, Podcasts, TV and Books apps, in line with iOS. iOS device management is now conducted via Finder. ... Find My Mac and Find My Friends are merged into an application called Find My. ... in Terminal, Z shell (executable "zsh") is the default login shell for new users.
Big Sur: ... New Time Machine backup destinations are formatted as APFS. ... New Shortcuts app. ...?Live Text, which allows a user to copy, paste, translate and look up text from images (something that I use almost every day). ...?New Passwords Manager ... Visual Look Up makes it easy to identify objects (e.g. cat breeds, dog breeds, etc.) found within user's photos.
Ventura: ... Stage Manager?keeps the app you’re working with front and center, and your desktop clutter-free (personally don't like it, but maybe I just didn't use it enough) ... New apps Clock, Freeform, and Weather? ... System Preferences was renamed to System Settings and got a new tabbed interface. ?It was re-organized based on the iOS/iPadOS Settings app.
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Re: Hard Drive Stops/Starts
Mechanical or SSD?
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Vincent Winterling
Vineland, NJ
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I have a new Mac Mini, 16/256 (currently 75 GB available) with the latest Sequoia update.? Attached to it is a hard drive enclosure that I’ve been using for a couple of years with a 2015 iMac, 16/1T running Monterey.? With the iMac the hard drives would spin
up and stay running while the iMac was in use.? With the Mac Mini the drives spin up when I wake the Mini but are regularly spinning down and then almost immediately spinning up again. I have turned to OFF “Put hard disks to sleep when possible”. Any idea
as to how to stop the drives from spinning up/down so frequently? ?I am hoping this may be due to the small internal storage, which I have ordered a 2TB replacement, and maybe this will solve the problem with the external drive.?
?
Thanks in advance to responses.?
Jim Willett
?
_._,_._,_
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
Whichever way you do the upgrade, please backup your data before performing the upgrade. ?It is a major leap forward from macOS High Sierra 10.13 to macOS Ventura 13. ?Your system drive will automatically be reformatted as AFPS, with two (2) volumes, system and data (introduced in macOS 10.15 Catalina). ?Due to Apple's bidirectional firm links, the two volumes appear as one in Finder, but show separately in Disk Utility. ?
I don't use iCloud because I have a lot of data and it's a subscription service. ?So I always do two (2) separate backups: a clone and Time Machine. ?Another possibility is a cloud backup service such as Backblaze (I've never used them, I've only heard them mentioned). ?That's probably also a subscription.
Given the amount of data you have, you could make a clone on a 256 GB USB flash drive, as they are very inexpensive theses days. ?Randy always recommends SuperDuper, which is free to use without some of its bells and whistles that are probably unnecessary in this scenario.
Whichever way you do the backups, verify that you can recover data from them before doing the upgrade.
Erasing your disk is part of a clean upgrade, so it is a bit more involved than doing an upgrade in place. ?A fully clean upgrade would also include a new installation of any apps that don't come with macOS. ?Because of that, you would need to restore all data from backup and reset all of your system and app preferences/settings. ?I used my 2010 MacBook Pro for 10 years and never did a clean upgrade, all with no problems. ?Other folks always do clean upgrades, because they think that clean upgrades can prevent some kinds of problems.
Just a few of the other changes you'll see (far from complete): Mojave: ... Grab replaced by Screenshot app. ... New apps introduced: News, Stocks, Voice Memos and Home.
Catalina: ...?32-bit apps not supported.? ... iTunes was replaced by separate Music, Podcasts, TV and Books apps, in line with iOS. iOS device management is now conducted via Finder. ... Find My Mac and Find My Friends are merged into an application called Find My. ... in Terminal, Z shell (executable "zsh") is the default login shell for new users.
Big Sur: ... New Time Machine backup destinations are formatted as APFS. ... New Shortcuts app. ...?Live Text, which allows a user to copy, paste, translate and look up text from images (something that I use almost every day). ...?New Passwords Manager ... Visual Look Up makes it easy to identify objects (e.g. cat breeds, dog breeds, etc.) found within user's photos.
Ventura: ... Stage Manager?keeps the app you’re working with front and center, and your desktop clutter-free (personally don't like it, but maybe I just didn't use it enough) ... New apps Clock, Freeform, and Weather? ... System Preferences was renamed to System Settings and got a new tabbed interface. ?It was re-organized based on the iOS/iPadOS Settings app.
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On Mar 21, 2025, at 6:32?PM, Patsy Price via groups.io <beyondwords@...> wrote:
I was trained to do a clean install and always did it till this computer. But now I'm really afraid of trying it. What are the dangers if I don't? I do want to do a complete backup. I'm afraid of that too, but afraid not to. I'll buy a hard drive, probably locally at a Canadian retailer. They're a whole lot cheaper than they used to be! I have just about 100 GB on a 1.03 TB internal drive. And I can clean part of that off. New everything will take up more space. So I was thinking of a drive around 250 GB.
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Bev in TX
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Re: Upgrade OS from High Sierra on 2018 iMac
If the problem is browsers that are not supported, perhaps all you need to to is update the browser. ?I have macs at 10.13, 10.14, 12.6 and 14.6. ?They all work fine with the latest versions of the software they can run, and with very few exceptions, the more up to date Macs are not better at anything. ?
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Jim Saklad
Brent
David G Brooks