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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYes. That is a great solution. I have a 5kVA unit with 10V taps from -40V to +20V compared to the incoming mains. I use it on my AL-1500 and HF-2500 amps. I run them on 230V and they are very happy there. 73, Alek. VK6APK On 5/02/2020 11:26 am, W2XJ wrote:
autotransformer is the solution.? |
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
W2XJ
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On Feb 4, 2020, at 9:41 PM, cturnertuning <clark@...> wrote:
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
My voltage here is 256. Same problem. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device ------ Original message------ From: Alek Petkovic Date: Tue, Feb 4, 2020 3:30 PM To: [email protected]; Cc: Subject:Re: [ham-amplifiers] fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2 The biggest single issue in this country (Australia) with the 2100 amps and a lot of others, for that matter, is the filament voltage. Due to our 240V to 250V mains, it is always high. With the 2100 series amps, the filament voltage, at the tube sockets is typically 6.8 to 6.9 Volts. Luckily, there is enough room under the chassis to install some series/parallel wirewound resistors, in the filament line, to bring the voltage back to the nominal 6.3V. I have done this to at least 20 Yaesu amps over the years and in every single case, it has tamed them right down to become a good little amplifier with very few problems. You can do all the other mods that you see floating around the net but I've never bothered. After the filament voltage has been corrected, I've never had an amp come back to me with problems. 73, Alek. VK6APK
On 5/02/2020 12:44 am, cturnertuning
wrote:
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThe biggest single issue in this country (Australia) with the 2100 amps and a lot of others, for that matter, is the filament voltage. Due to our 240V to 250V mains, it is always high. With the 2100 series amps, the filament voltage, at the tube sockets is typically 6.8 to 6.9 Volts. Luckily, there is enough room under the chassis to install some series/parallel wirewound resistors, in the filament line, to bring the voltage back to the nominal 6.3V. I have done this to at least 20 Yaesu amps over the years and in every single case, it has tamed them right down to become a good little amplifier with very few problems. You can do all the other mods that you see floating around the net but I've never bothered. After the filament voltage has been corrected, I've never had an amp come back to me with problems. 73, Alek. VK6APK
On 5/02/2020 12:44 am, cturnertuning
wrote:
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI have a 2100B to use with the FT 101 station.? I take it to the
cabin and use it on all bands. Typically run it at 500 out. Never
had a single issue with it ever. Its possible it was worked on at
some point and upgraded. I understand early 2100 and 2100B had
real problems like you describe Jim.? These amps where abused for sure as almost nobody hooked up the
ALC and if you ran it with a 101 you then put 150 watts into it.?
With the ALC hooked up and set, it backs the drive down to about
50 watts and has a clean output.? There is zero gain to place the
amp on 240volt. The transformer does not have dual primary. It
will just run the amp off one leg of the 240. The Bias and Oscillation problems of early units is described here: C On 2/4/2020 4:06 AM, Jim VE7RF wrote:
I? had a brand? new? FL-2100B? back? in 1976.? ?Worked? on? all? bands...? for a while.?? -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
I? had a brand? new? FL-2100B? back? in 1976.? ?Worked? on? all? bands...? for a while.??
Then? on? 10M,? it? flat? out? would? not? tune? properly on? 10M..into a flat? swr.? The? xfmr? ran? very? hot.....even? when? on? standby? for an? hr.? (240? vac? ?60 hz)? Cooling? was? very? minimal,? so added a? extra? fan? on? top,? sucking? hot? air out. SWR? meter? was flaky.? SWR? would? increase as power? output? increased....which? is? nonsense? of? course. I? believe? the? 2100Z? has? 160M.? Pulse? tune? the? amp? (like? with? 60? wpm? dots.....and? use? a pep? meter)..should? get? aprx? 600 w? out.? Local? buddy also? had? a new? 2100B.? ?I? tuned his,? and? promptly arced? the? bandswitch. His? was a parasitic? nightmare? from? day 1. Never? did? get? resolved.? ?? I? see? there? is a lot? of? mods? for? these? amps.? Beware,? it? has? taps for? 100/200? vac..for? JA? use. Whatever? u? do,? don't? buy? either? version.? I? was glad to? get rid? of? mine. Jim? ?VE7RF |
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Re: fl2100z / Tentec Orion 2
GG LL
FL2100B (not Z, but quite similar) with FT-450, at the club
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Regards Guillermo - LU5WE. El 3/2/20 a las 17:49, David Perry escribi¨®:
Anyone using a fl200z with anything...? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Cliff,? the? link? for? the? ameritron? site? does? not? work? for? the AL1200? manual? (nor? the? AL-1500,? under? downloads).??
The 2nd? link? works....? but? not sharp,? slightly? blurred.? Appears? that? the? step? start? resistor is? 'R3".... and? is a 10? ohm? @ 12? watt unit.? (lou,? can? u? verify? the? value +? wattage). RLY-2? is? listed? as? a ..'SPDT? 120 vac? AC? relay'...? wired? as a SPST.? ?(NC? contact? not? used).? ? No? current? ratings? given. I? see? no? delay? circuit for? RLY-2? anywhere...except? for? the brief? V? drop? across R3...which? temp? kills? the? V? into RLY-2. (imo,? that's a piss? poor? excuse? for a? 'delay? circuit'). With? only? 10? ohms? for? the? step? start? resistor,? the? filter? caps? will? charge up extremely? fast...and? RLY-2? will? activate..almost? instantaneous.? With only 10 ohms,? caps? will? be? almost? fully? charged....? which? will? minimize? the? secondary? surge...(that's? good).....IF? there? is? enough? of a delay? before RLY-2 activates.? A? split? second delay? is? not long? enough.? It? requires a proper 2-3? second delay? circuit.? They? could? have? used a DC? relay, with? a simple? RC? time? constant....or a programmable? timer. Jim? VE7RF? ? ?? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Hi, Not sure this helps but Ameritron has standalone stepstart units for both 120v and 240v as needed. ICP-240 and ICP-120 and are about $89.00. Well built and are plug and play. I have 3 here that I use. Usual disclaimer and just satisfied customer. 73, Phil W9IXX From: "Jim VE7RF" <jim.thom@...> To: "ham-amplifiers" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2020 2:31:30 AM Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube) Here? is? how? I? did? my? external step? start.? ?I? used? a? ?8"? x 8"? x 4"? electrical? box....with? knock? outs. 240? vac? line, using 10? gauge? wire, is hardwired? from? 2? pole? breaker? in my? 100A sub panel..to? 8x8x4? box.? 240? power? cable? from L4PS? also? hardwired? to same? 8x8x4? box.? Garden? variety? DPST? 30A? relay,? (P+B,? deltrol,? etc)? is? installed in? 8x8x4 box...and used? to? apply? the? 240? vac. (Drake RF? deck? ON/OFF? switch? left to? ON? position). 2nd? relay,? SPST,? also? 30A,? used to? shunt? the? 25? ohm @ 100? watt? wire? wound.? Wire wound? mounted? on? standoff's.? So? 2 x relays + resistor mounted in? the? 8x8x4? box.? Small? control? cable wired? from? 8x8x4? box? to? desk....? terminating? in a small? mini? box.? Mini? box? has? 2 x? miniature? toggle? switches on it.? ?One? toggle? per? relay? coil. Toggle? #1? applies? 240? vac.? After 3-5 secs,? toggle? #2 is activated,? shunting the? 25? ohm resistor.? Dead simple.? ?Step? starts both the? B+? AND? the? fils....at the? same? time.? ZERO? arcing? when? either? relay is activated.? ?It's? just a? manual? step? start? setup.? 250 Volt? MOV? across SPST? step? start? relay? contacts.? (130 Volt? MOV? across? coils? of both? relay? coils).? If switching? from? 2650 vdc....down? to? 1900? vdc,? no? problem.? ?But? when? switching back? from? 1900? to? 2650? vdc, the? ?toggle? #2? is? 1st? activated....? putting? the? resistor? back inline. Toggle #2? ?then activated,? again? shunting? resistor.? 240? vac /? 25 ohms? = 9.6? amps? =? ?2304 watts...when? T=0.? That only? last a? few? Msecs? as? caps? charge? up.? ?(The? harbach board? uses a 22 ohm,? 25 watt cement? resistor). (I? have? also used a? 0-15? sec? adjustable? timer? to apply the? 120 vac? to the? coil? of the step start contactor....? but? that's? only? on? Big? ?HB? B+? supplies,? and ONLY? the? B+? supply? is? step? started. The? fil? from? the? tube? has it's? own? step? start /variac? combo...? bigger? metal? triodes). Jim? VE7RF?? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
I? went? through? the? SSR? scenario? ?years? ?ago.? The? issue? with? em? is.....? they EACH? require? a massive? heat? sink.? SSR's? are only? SPST? by? design, so to? apply? 240? vac,? you require? 2? of? em...+? 2? x heatsinks.? The? heatsinks? are? stupid? big.? If? only? one big? heatsink? used,? each? SSR must? be well? spaced? apart,? or? they? will? cook? each? other.? ?Ideally,? you? want a zero? voltage turn? on......? and a? zero? CURRENT? shut? off.? ?IMO,? they? also? have too? much? leakage? across? em...that's a safety? issue.
For these? table? top? amps, like? my? Drake? L4B, it? was? simpler, to just install a DPST? relay (30-40A? contacts)? plus a SPST? relay (30-40A? contacts)... +? a new? 25? ohm @? 100? watt WW (cheap? at? Mouser)? into an? 8x8x4 outboard box.? ?You? can? always? use a DPST? for? the? shunting? relay,? with? one? set? of? contacts? to? shunt? the? resistor...and? the? 2nd? set? of? contacts? has? the? key? line through? it.? That? way,? the? amp? can? not? be? keyed, until the? step? start has? completed.? ?BTW,? only? ONE? step? start? resistor? required,? regardless? of? whether? 120? vac? or? 240 vac? is? used. On? that? HB? 6700? vdc (10? kva? xmfr)? supply I? built,? I? installed a 0-15? sec? timer? for the? step? start.? Plug in? ?8 pin? octal? type? (flush? mount? type socket).? Timer? uses? ?DPDT-10A? contacts.? One? set of? contacts? used to apply? 120? vac? to the? shunting relay's? coil.? ?The? 2nd set? of? contacts wired? to? a pair? of? RCA? connectors..which? had? the? key? line? routed? through? em.? ?Same? deal,? the? YC-156? could? not? be? keyed, until? the? 15? sec step? start sequence is completed.? ? On? buddy's? 8 kv? supply (15 kva xmfr),? we? used? surplus (NIB-$50.00,? still? available,? they? even? came? with aux? contacts)? ?3PST-135A? contactors...(220? vac? solenoid coil..designed? to? work? from? 200-250? vac).? We paralleled (using 1x1 x 1/8",? angle? AL)...? ?all? 3? x contacts? on? both? the? input +? output of? 3 contactors.? That? turns? em? into a 400A? contactor.? One? assy? into? each? leg? of? the? 240? line.? 3rd? contactor's 1x1? angle? al? is directly? bolted? to? the? 1x1? angle? of? one? of? the? ?other? contactor's? output. 0-15? sec? timer? used? to? activate the? shunting? contactor.? ?Again,? we? 1st? looked? at? SSR's? in? depth,? and? gave? up? on em.? The? SSR? maker? depicted? a typ? use? for? SSR's....? using a myriad? of em? in both parallel? +? series....? to? turn? on +? off....? a? 150? hp? electric pump? motor.....which? ran? on 600? vac,? 3? phase.? Sounds? wonderful? till? you? saw? their? depicted schematic,? complete? with? a ton? of? SSR's? +? heatsinks....way? too much? to? go? wrong....and an? unholy bitch? to? trouble? shoot, ever? mind? the? back emf? when? shutting? off a? 150? hp..under? load !? ?(a? simple 3? pole? contactor is? what? the? SSR's? are? trying? to? emulate).? ?In? any? event,? I? would? not? use a SSR...for? applying 240? vac....? nor? ?esp shunting a step? start? R.? ? Small? ?surplus? 3 pole? contactors (like 10- 20-30A? contacts)? ?are? readily? available..... and for? ham? use,? only? 2? poles? are used,? to? apply? 240? vac. One? thing? I? do? on? the external? step? start? setup? for the? L4B's..... when? done? for? the? night, I? 1st? switch? the? step? start? resistor? back inline... then? shut off the main dpdt? relay.? ?Any? back? emf? from? the? plate xfmr? primary? has? to? 1st get? past? the? step? start? resistor.? The? step? start? resistor? kills the? back? emf? dead....and? zero? arcing? when? main? DPST? relay releases.? ?Contactors? split? any? arc? into? 2 x simultaneous..=? minimal? to? no? ? arcs...since? each? pole of? a? contactor? is? just a? spst-DM arrangement...(2? contacts? with? a bar? coming? down? on? em).? ?The? spring? in a? contactor? is? stiff,? to? enable a fast? release. Flip side? is....? a? huge? amount? of? magnetism? is? ?required...hence? the? solenoid. Jim? VE7RF? ? ? ? ? ? ? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
How about a pair of these boys before the step-start resistors
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( zero-crossing ) then a delayed high amperage contactor that shorts across both the SSR and resistors. Don W4DNR Quoting Jim VE7RF <jim.thom@...>: If a? big? arc occurs? when? contacts? closing,? something? is? not? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
If a? big? arc occurs? when? contacts? closing,? something? is? not? designed? correctly.? ?That? is? no place? for? puny? 10-20 A? rated? contacts,? or? using real? short? delays.? Just? increasing? the delay? a? bunch? would? go a long? way? to minimizing the? arc.?
? Jim? VE7RF |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Cliff Fox (KU4GW)
Hi Don,
? ? ? ? ? ? That info is in the user manual page 13 for the schematic and page 14 for the parts list available fore free from the Ameritron website at??and also available free of charge at? Very 73, Cliff - KU4GW |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Here? is? how? I? did? my? external step? start.? ?I? used? a? ?8"? x 8"? x 4"? electrical? box....with? knock? outs.
240? vac? line, using 10? gauge? wire, is hardwired? from? 2? pole? breaker? in my? 100A sub panel..to? 8x8x4? box.? 240? power? cable? from L4PS? also? hardwired? to same? 8x8x4? box.? Garden? variety? DPST? 30A? relay,? (P+B,? deltrol,? etc)? is? installed in? 8x8x4 box...and used? to? apply? the? 240? vac. (Drake RF? deck? ON/OFF? switch? left to? ON? position). 2nd? relay,? SPST,? also? 30A,? used to? shunt? the? 25? ohm @ 100? watt? wire? wound.? Wire wound? mounted? on? standoff's.? So? 2 x relays + resistor mounted in? the? 8x8x4? box.? Small? control? cable wired? from? 8x8x4? box? to? desk....? terminating? in a small? mini? box.? Mini? box? has? 2 x? miniature? toggle? switches on it.? ?One? toggle? per? relay? coil. Toggle? #1? applies? 240? vac.? After 3-5 secs,? toggle? #2 is activated,? shunting the? 25? ohm resistor.? Dead simple.? ?Step? starts both the? B+? AND? the? fils....at the? same? time.? ZERO? arcing? when? either? relay is activated.? ?It's? just a? manual? step? start? setup.? 250 Volt? MOV? across SPST? step? start? relay? contacts.? (130 Volt? MOV? across? coils? of both? relay? coils).? If switching? from? 2650 vdc....down? to? 1900? vdc,? no? problem.? ?But? when? switching back? from? 1900? to? 2650? vdc, the? ?toggle? #2? is? 1st? activated....? putting? the? resistor? back inline. Toggle #2? ?then activated,? again? shunting? resistor.? 240? vac /? 25 ohms? = 9.6? amps? =? ?2304 watts...when? T=0.? That only? last a? few? Msecs? as? caps? charge? up.? ?(The? harbach board? uses a 22 ohm,? 25 watt cement? resistor). (I? have? also used a? 0-15? sec? adjustable? timer? to apply the? 120 vac? to the? coil? of the step start contactor....? but? that's? only? on? Big? ?HB? B+? supplies,? and ONLY? the? B+? supply? is? step? started. The? fil? from? the? tube? has it's? own? step? start /variac? combo...? bigger? metal? triodes). Jim? VE7RF?? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Any Schematics with relay numbers for home builders ?
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Don W4DNR Quoting "Louis Parascondola via Groups.Io" <Gudguyham@...>: The Ameritron outboard step start is the same circuit that is built |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
Cliff Fox (KU4GW)
Thanks for all the replies guys, over a dozen and I will post what I end up doing if P.J comes up with the moo-la if any is required. This group is absolutely awesome and a excellent source to get some good advice and I will always use the left-hand rule when working around any voltages exceeding 50 volts. Thanks so much! I think I have all the info I need now to hopefully get P.J., KN4UNA's amplifier in the proper working order.? Very 73 de Cliff "It's not the class of license that the Amateur holds, it's the class of the Amateur who holds the license!"? |
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Re: Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube)
The Ameritron outboard step start is the same circuit that is built into the Al-1200 amp.?? -----Original Message-----
From: cturnertuning <clark@...> To: ham-amplifiers <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 11:49 am Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube) Ameritron makes an outboard box that the amp or any amp plugs into that
has step start built in. Not sure whats inside. Maybe MOV?? I like to build my own but this might be an option as you would not have to modify the amp or any other amp you own. Other options would be a resistor/cap across the contacts. I have a chart here somewhere to select the value. It appeared in Electric radio magazine.? I have used this before on boat anchor transmitter relays and the spark was gone.? I recently added MOVs to my Johnson 500. It had 25 AMPS of startup current that banged the hell out of the plate transformer.? Startup is now 2 to 3 amps at the peak and rises up dead silent on key up. C > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Don Roden > Sent: January 28, 2020 10:18 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ham-amplifiers] Question about Ameritron AL-1200 Amp (Uses one 3CX1200Z7 tube) > > > >> It has a problem with giving a arc when the power switch is first turned on. >> >>? Cliff, KU4GW >> > Cliff, > > Is it a bang or a BANG ?? A tick or a TICK ?? a snap or a SNAP !? ? > > Do you hear it across the room ?? Does your butt lift off the chair ? > > Just trying to gauge the severity. > > Don W4DNR > > > > > > > > -- Please let me quote you for your parts needs! I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order! Clark Turner 480-695-2898 |