Hello!
Remember what I posted.. I'm not doubting the circumstances, if any
that is. However..... I'm still looking for that missing example thing
called an "OS/2 Runtime for Windows".
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

Gregg,
You can just see on this keyboard for sale on E-Bay



the right control is labelled "enter" and the left "reset"

Dave

Hello!
I believe it is. We'd need Dave M to comment on that, but he's busy
answering questions from people who are being surprised. This is
something even I can't answer which is certainly a first. As for OS/2,
hmm, never got the Warp one to work, but did nearly succeed with the
others.

However.... I'm trying to track down a copy of the thing that IBM
wrote for laughs for Windows 3.11. Think "runtime" and you're trying
to figure out why a guy named Bob is insisting he works for UNCLE.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 5:13 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:

Isn't it older than that? The 3178 keyboard had both a "newline" key which moved the cursor and "enter" which generated an aid.
The newline was where the right control key is on a modern keyboard,

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
ggs@...
Sent: 25 October 2019 21:42
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] random OS/2 trivia

I was working at IBM (in FL) at the time of OS/2 and was on some of the
original task forces that were defining the OS. Unfortunately management
didn鈥檛 listen to us on quite a few topics.

The keyboard layout is such because IBM expected it to be used on some
incarnation of the 3270 PC. The keyboard of which has the left control is
marked 鈥渞eset鈥� and right control is marked 鈥渆nter鈥�.

TTFN - Guy

On Oct 25, 2019, at 12:04 PM, Drew Derbyshire <swhobbit@...>

wrote:

On 10/25/19 5:43 AM, Grog Proce wrote:

On 2019-10-25 6:33 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

It turns out in the OS/2 3270 emulator, the emulated ENTER key is the

bare-assed Right-Control. Not Control-Enter, not Shift-Control, just Control.

As a professional developer on z/OS (not a quality claim - just that someone

pays me) I've used Right-Control as <enter> and Left-Control as <reset> from
the mid-90s to today - and for the foreseeable future. I just have to have a
New-Line key, and that key is labelled as "Enter" on my keyboard.

I prefer using ENTER on x3270. I use Shift-ENTER for new line (or fake it with

a tab key) on it.

Yes, Left-Control is Reset on the OS/2 emulator.

I say "mid 90s". It was probably 1992 or 1993. They took away my 3192 and

gave me a PC - just so they could email me.

That's what you get for using z/OS instead of z/VM. VM does mail just fine.

:-)

I got OS/2 after seeing a presentation at NaSTEC in Florida. It was a bit of a

wild ride for a number of years...

I first touched OS/2 when I worked for Keane, Inc. and we were contracted

with IBM to write a smart OS/2-based emulator connecting to AS/400's. This
was 1989, and a month and half after I started, IBM canceled the project as
part of their global pullback. (I suspect also they got a clue and realized that for
customers, PC's did not exist simply to talk to IBM servers using coax).

I stopped using OS/2 full time at home at when I got my first Pentium in 1996,

and programs crashed on the machine. I figured out after months that the
cache chips with were bad, and Windows worked better because IT didn't
exploit the system memory as well (heavily) ... but by then the writing was on
the wall about OS/2 having lost the war.

I also lost the war on email that decade, SMTP/POP3/IMAP kicked UUCP's

butt. :-)

-ahd-

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

And this space was sponsored by the creation of space to fill space community.

Isn't it older than that? The 3178 keyboard had both a "newline" key which moved the cursor and "enter" which generated an aid.
The newline was where the right control key is on a modern keyboard,

Dave

I was working at IBM (in FL) at the time of OS/2 and was on some of the original task forces that were defining the OS. Unfortunately management didn鈥檛 listen to us on quite a few topics.

The keyboard layout is such because IBM expected it to be used on some incarnation of the 3270 PC. The keyboard of which has the left control is marked 鈥渞eset鈥� and right control is marked 鈥渆nter鈥�.

TTFN - Guy

On 10/25/19 5:43 AM, Grog Proce wrote:

On 2019-10-25 6:33 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

It turns out in the OS/2 3270 emulator, the emulated ENTER key is the bare-assed Right-Control.听 Not Control-Enter, not Shift-Control, just Control.

As a professional developer on z/OS (not a quality claim - just that someone pays me) I've used Right-Control as <enter> and Left-Control as <reset> from the mid-90s to today - and for the foreseeable future.听 I just have to have a New-Line key, and that key is labelled as "Enter" on my keyboard.

I prefer using ENTER on x3270.听 I use Shift-ENTER for new line (or fake it with a tab key)听 on it.

Yes, Left-Control is Reset on the OS/2 emulator.

I say "mid 90s".听 It was probably 1992 or 1993.听 They took away my 3192 and gave me a PC - just so they could email me.

That's what you get for using z/OS instead of z/VM.听 VM does mail just fine.听 :-)

I got OS/2 after seeing a presentation at NaSTEC in Florida.听 It was a bit of a wild ride for a number of years...

I first touched OS/2 when I worked for Keane, Inc. and we were contracted with IBM to write a smart OS/2-based emulator connecting to AS/400's.听 This was 1989, and a month and half after I started, IBM canceled the project as part of their global pullback. (I suspect also they got a clue and realized that for customers, PC's did not exist simply to talk to IBM servers using coax).

I stopped using OS/2 full time at home at when I got my first Pentium in 1996, and programs crashed on the machine.听 I figured out after months that the cache chips with were bad, and Windows worked better because IT didn't exploit the system memory as well (heavily) ... but by then the writing was on the wall about OS/2 having lost the war.

I also lost the war on email that decade, SMTP/POP3/IMAP kicked UUCP's butt.听 :-)

-ahd-

On 2019-10-25 6:33 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:

It turns out in the OS/2 3270 emulator, the emulated ENTER key is the bare-assed Right-Control.听 Not Control-Enter, not Shift-Control, just Control.

As a professional developer on z/OS (not a quality claim - just that someone pays me) I've used Right-Control as <enter> and Left-Control as <reset> from the mid-90s to today - and for the foreseeable future.听 I just have to have a New-Line key, and that key is labelled as "Enter" on my keyboard.

I say "mid 90s".听 It was probably 1992 or 1993.听 They took away my 3192 and gave me a PC - just so they could email me.

I got OS/2 after seeing a presentation at NaSTEC in Florida.听 It was a bit of a wild ride for a number of years...

Cheers,
Greg

apropos of nothing ...听

I decided I have not done enough of the Masochism Tango lately, so I got OS/2 Warp Connect 4 installed under VM Fusion. Fascinating CD formal, let me tell you -- my Mac wanted to disavow it (a machine has no trouble with Warp 3 or Warp 4 Server CDs).

I then brought up a TCP/IP 3270 session connecting to a Hercules instance running VM.听 At first because I could not login I could not hit ENTER.

It turns out in the OS/2 3270 emulator, the emulated ENTER key is the bare-assed Right-Control.听 Not Control-Enter, not Shift-Control, just Control. I no doubt knew this in 1995 back when I used to run OS/2 to fend off the NT weenies in the corporate IT department, but even I (the guy remembers the details), had to hunt it for today.

As my spouse just said to me, "Why are you doing to yourself?"

-ahd-

开云体育

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

also (I had forgotten):

  * configuration via file

It's definately configurable by files.  It's just that you have to assemble
the files and build a new RSCS nucleus to make permanent changes :-)

That's not scalable.听 Consider what BitNet did, which was have a single site generate the map for the network and send it out.听 Fifty sites to have to assemble the new table?

More seriously, it is possible to generate lots of spare link and route
entries at nucleus build time and then use DEFINE, ROUTE and DELETE commands
to add new links and make dynamic changes while RSCS is running.  This is
actually more flexible than working with a configuration file in some ways.

I'm aware of that, and it's error prone, especially when things are added and disappear after a restart.

For example, it is possible to add new links or routes without having to
shut down and reipl RSCS to get it to reread it's configuration file.  It is
a lot of fiddly work to make RSCS properly configurable by file for not very
much return so I prefer to spend the time on something else.

Since I'm tainted (I've see the RSCS PP R2 source), I prefer not to comment further.听 (hint: subroutines.)

 * MSGNOH support

Bob has done this one.  I had put it on the back burner on the grounds that
on screen MSG overhead on VM/370 

I think the sixpack may have a user modification to shorten it.

does not seem to be as great as in VM/SP and later, as far as I recall anyway.

I'm thinking of my favorite 4361, which IS VM/SP.

 * link passwords

There is some support for this but it is not tested much because in most
cases, everyone has enough trouble establishing a link without putting
another obstacle such as passwords in the way.

And are absolutely critical as soon as you have untrusted nodes connecting.

Go through BitSavers manual for the RSCS PP R3.脗听 No need to me to repeat 
it all here.脗听 (Nor you to have redocument all if you get your support 
matching.)

I think that pretty much describes the approach I have been taking, except
I haven't been good at documenting which bits are done and which are not.

My point is, do all of it.听 听

I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators.
It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out.

Haven't I told you about this already Drew?

I'm aware you're working on it, we got a link up to my test system.脗

I was hoping you would use this link to see what works :-)
(It's been down for a while now.)

rscs start irlearn
DMTCMY700I Activating link IRLEARN NJE line=0433 class=* queueing=priority
DMTNET141I Line 0433 ready for connection to link IRLEARN
DMTNET142I Link IRLEARN line 0433 dataset ready
DMTNCR905I Signon of link IRLEARN complete, buffer size=1012

rscs cmd听 irlearn q victoria
From IRLEARN: DMTCMX652I LINK VICTORIA CONNECT VICT DMTYJB 031 * NOH NOD NOT

Now up.听 Check the MAINT or OPERATOR consoles when you get bored.

Contact me privately for the testing you desire.

There are a few other basic items still to do to such as reporting the error
to the sender when a message cannot be delivered due to destination user
not logged on or disconnected for example.

Have you got a CTC driver?脗听 (Useful for second level VMs)

Yes but it's not ready for prime time.  It's very hard to get it started,
it's quite fragile and I need to find a way to stop it from trying to send
data as fast as it can even when there is nothing to send which consumes as
much CPU as it can get it's hands on...

My fallback solution for second level VM is to use two back to back
TCPNJE devices each using the TCP/IP localhost address 127.0.0.1.

That pesky 4361 doesn't have TCPNJE.听 :-)

From prior experience, I tell you that the critical number of avatars 
(i.e. real people or even yourself on multiple systems) is about 2. 
Typing out out SENDFILE foo exec MAINT AT VERONICA more than once is a 
pain, and error prone.

Give people a chance to be grateful for not having to type:

SPOOL D RSCS#TAG DEV D VERONICA MAINT#PUNCH foo exec (NOH

for a while first :-)

  * SENDFILE

You forgot to mention RECEIVE.  I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and
RECEIVE.  They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as
SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some
limited NETDATA support too.

I also forgot RDRLIST and PEEK.

Maybe there are volunteers for these?

(I tend to use QUERY RDR ALL for RDRLIST and RECEIVE spid (HOLD followed by
TYPE or EDIT for PEEK - maybe I'm a masochist?)

No maybe about it.听 :-)

  * NOTE
  * BSMTP gateway for mail

I haven't done anything on these yet.

Get the underlying support, I'll write /them/.脗听 I was writing BSMTP code 
when UUCP was still a thing.

Am I correct in thinking NOTE just does basic outgoing mail?  If it is
possible to write CMS files from REXX now, we should have enough for a very
basic implementation - just write out some BSMTP to a temporary CMS file,
SENDFILE it to a configurable remote NJE gateway (or local user if
appropriate) and erase it.  If REXX is not quite up to it yet, an
implementation in a compiled language called from an EXEC ought to be not
quite so easy but very doable.

In its common usage, yes, NOTE is about dumb the old BSD mail command for sending mail.听 (It's actually a wrapper around SENDFILE).

1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as
    possible.
    The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be
    backported.

MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm
aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term. 

The MUSIC/SP demo is ESA, not 370 (I believe).听 Or correct me?

 Unfortunately, some public
domain software may also use the VMCF API.  It would be easier to
implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too.  However,
using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine
server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM
to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me.

I've also rewritten mainframe BSD API's for the long ago and not lamented KNET.听 Actually, KNET was based on the free RSCS for VM/370.

6. mail client

I've got some ideas but not done anything.  Can't do everything.

Given the base TCP/IP脗听 and REXX, I can kick in on that.脗听 I once wrote an 
mail client with a line mode editor in REXX for Clarkson.

Please proceed.  

I didn't mean this week.听 :-)

I need more infrastructure first (like the REXX variable support), and other items (not VM related) are higher on my todo list.

-ahd-

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

[snip]

Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:

* RSCS server that matches the RSCS V1R3 Program Product documentation
on BitSavers, supporting:
o remote commands
o remote operators
o store and forward of files
o forwarding of messages
o routing to distant systems

also (I had forgotten):

* configuration via file

It's definately configurable by files. It's just that you have to assemble
the files and build a new RSCS nucleus to make permanent changes :-)

More seriously, it is possible to generate lots of spare link and route
entries at nucleus build time and then use DEFINE, ROUTE and DELETE commands
to add new links and make dynamic changes while RSCS is running. This is
actually more flexible than working with a configuration file in some ways.
For example, it is possible to add new links or routes without having to
shut down and reipl RSCS to get it to reread it's configuration file. It is
a lot of fiddly work to make RSCS properly configurable by file for not very
much return so I prefer to spend the time on something else.

* MSGNOH support

Bob has done this one. I had put it on the back burner on the grounds that
on screen MSG overhead on VM/370 does not seem to be as great as in VM/SP
and later, as far as I recall anyway.

* link passwords

There is some support for this but it is not tested much because in most
cases, everyone has enough trouble establishing a link without putting
another obstacle such as passwords in the way.

Go through BitSavers manual for the RSCS PP R3.听 No need to me to repeat
it all here.听 (Nor you to have redocument all if you get your support
matching.)

I think that pretty much describes the approach I have been taking, except
I haven't been good at documenting which bits are done and which are not.

I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators.
It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out.

Haven't I told you about this already Drew?

I'm aware you're working on it, we got a link up to my test system.�

I was hoping you would use this link to see what works :-)
(It's been down for a while now.)

There are a few other basic items still to do to such as reporting the error
to the sender when a message cannot be delivered due to destination user
not logged on or disconnected for example.

Have you got a CTC driver?听 (Useful for second level VMs)

Yes but it's not ready for prime time. It's very hard to get it started,
it's quite fragile and I need to find a way to stop it from trying to send
data as fast as it can even when there is nothing to send which consumes as
much CPU as it can get it's hands on...

My fallback solution for second level VM is to use two back to back
TCPNJE devices each using the TCP/IP localhost address 127.0.0.1.

* NAMEFIND
* NAMES

I wouldn't regard these as a priority. We can think about them when we
get to the point of having so many people to communicate with that we
cannot remember who is who. REXX with EXECIO should go a long way to
implementing them.

From prior experience, I tell you that the critical number of avatars
(i.e. real people or even yourself on multiple systems) is about 2.
Typing out out SENDFILE foo exec MAINT AT VERONICA more than once is a
pain, and error prone.

Give people a chance to be grateful for not having to type:

SPOOL D RSCS#TAG DEV D VERONICA MAINT#PUNCH foo exec (NOH

for a while first :-)

* SENDFILE

You forgot to mention RECEIVE. I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and
RECEIVE. They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as
SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some
limited NETDATA support too.

I also forgot RDRLIST and PEEK.

Maybe there are volunteers for these?

(I tend to use QUERY RDR ALL for RDRLIST and RECEIVE spid (HOLD followed by
TYPE or EDIT for PEEK - maybe I'm a masochist?)

* NOTE
* BSMTP gateway for mail

I haven't done anything on these yet.

Get the underlying support, I'll write /them/.听 I was writing BSMTP code
when UUCP was still a thing.

Am I correct in thinking NOTE just does basic outgoing mail? If it is
possible to write CMS files from REXX now, we should have enough for a very
basic implementation - just write out some BSMTP to a temporary CMS file,
SENDFILE it to a configurable remote NJE gateway (or local user if
appropriate) and erase it. If REXX is not quite up to it yet, an
implementation in a compiled language called from an EXEC ought to be not
quite so easy but very doable.

You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would be
worth the wait.

I wouldn't regard it as a priority. I'm very close to be able to do chat
over NJE. I don't see any compelling reason to have TCP/IP based chat from
VM.

Because the server is a pain in the butt.听 :-)

Fourth, consider TCP/IP and its associated tools:

1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as
possible.
The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be
backported.

MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm
aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term. Unfortunately, some public
domain software may also use the VMCF API. It would be easier to
implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too. However,
using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine
server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM
to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me.

2. The RXSOCKET library adapted for the VM/370 implementation of TCP/IP
and REXX.

Not much use until REXX can do basic stuff like EXECIO.

3. RSCS tools (above) adapted for TCP/IP.

I don't know what you mean here.

I mean NAMES, NOTE, and SENDFILE all playing well with mixed (RSCS |
TCP/IP) networks.

I prefer to concentrate on getting the NJE part working first and
leave the TCP/IP support until later.

4. TELNET server

I'm not sure I see the need for a telnet server when Hercules already has
this built in.

Well, why do /any/// of it?

Actually, this needs logical device support, so it is probably not be
worthwhile.

Bob has done DIAG 7C logical device support a long time ago now.

5. mail gateway

My suggestion is to move the mail off system using NJE to a system which
can gateway it to the SMTP world. I think this was often a preferable way
to do it anyway because IBM's SMTP server implementation for VM was not great.

When I say mail gateway I mean a basic DVM which passes mail between the
VM system and a trusted external (modern) host.听 IBM's SMTP server
implementation for VM was great ... for 1987.听 That was a long time
ago.听 Basically, it's support for the mail client.

The RSCS BSMTP gateway may be sufficient.

It should be possible to SENDFILE a BSMTP format file from a userid on my
VM/370 system to a mail gateway running on my VMS system (which runs HUJI-NJE
and PMDF) and have it pop out on the internet but I don't seem to have mail
going in that direction set up correctly yet. It works going the other way
though. I can send a mail from my VMS system to my VM/370 system and have a
BSMTP formatted email arrive in the reader of my CMS userid. Unfortunately,
I don't have a mail client to read it yet.

6. mail client

I've got some ideas but not done anything. Can't do everything.

Given the base TCP/IP听 and REXX, I can kick in on that.听 I once wrote an
mail client with a line mode editor in REXX for Clarkson.

Please proceed. Do you really need TCP/IP? For outgoing, just do as for NOTE
above. Perhaps incoming is bit more difficult? Maybe a useful start would be
something a bit like PEEK which can read given spoolid and in the case of
class M punch files, discard BSMTP headers when present and display the
remaining content?

I have written some runtime support for CMS which enables 3270 panels created
on MUSIC to be used in CMS applications. It's a bit tedious to have to create
the panels on a different system and move them across but in the absence of
XEDIT, it beats manually coding 3270 data streams on CMS for fullscreen user
interfaces. If you want to use this, let me know and I'll provide further
details. It's on my website but I try to avoid quoting urls in mails so that
I don't arouse the suspicions of over zealous spam filters...

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

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also: 

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/20/19 5:32 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?

THAT question I like.

My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written for
Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP. This requires adding IUCV support
to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while.

Huh?听 Do you have a S/370 copy of MUSIC/SP?听 The 6.x demo is S/390 (I
thought)

MUSIC doesn't have to be running in order to make use of the support I've
developed for MUSIC TCP/IP. My idea is that that VM/370 could be made
capable of using the same IUCV and TCP/IP support built into Hercules
while running in S/370 mode that MUSIC uses while running in S/390 mode.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

开云体育

开云体育

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.脗听 
Fix it.脗听脗听 (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).

I think EXECIO support is the most urgent requirement.

Agreed.听 But for that the external variable support is needed.

Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:

 * RSCS server that matches the RSCS V1R3 Program Product documentation
   on BitSavers, supporting:
     o remote commands
     o remote operators
     o store and forward of files
     o forwarding of messages
     o routing to distant systems

also (I had forgotten):

• configuration via file
• MSGNOH support
  
• link passwords

Go through BitSavers manual for the RSCS PP R3.听 No need to me to repeat it all here.听 (Nor you to have redocument all if you get your support matching.)

I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators.
It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out.

Haven't I told you about this already Drew?

I'm aware you're working on it, we got a link up to my test system.听 Have you got a CTC driver?听 (Useful for second level VMs)

 * IDENTIFY

I've written a hack to do this some time ago.  I should dig it up and see about
getting it finished.

 * NAMEFIND
 * NAMES

I wouldn't regard these as a priority.  We can think about them when we
get to the point of having so many people to communicate with that we
cannot remember who is who.  REXX with EXECIO should go a long way to
implementing them.

From prior experience, I tell you that the critical number of avatars (i.e. real people or even yourself on multiple systems) is about 2. Typing out out SENDFILE foo exec MAINT AT VERONICA more than once is a pain, and error prone.听

 * SENDFILE

You forgot to mention RECEIVE.  I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and
RECEIVE.  They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as
SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some
limited NETDATA support too.

I also forgot RDRLIST and PEEK.

 * NOTE
 * BSMTP gateway for mail

I haven't done anything on these yet.

Get the underlying support, I'll write them.听 I was writing BSMTP code when UUCP was still a thing.

You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would be 
worth the wait.

I wouldn't regard it as a priority.  I'm very close to be able to do chat
over NJE.  I don't see any compelling reason to have TCP/IP based chat from
VM.

Because the server is a pain in the butt.听 :-)

Fourth, consider TCP/IP and its associated tools:

1. TCP/IP server which uses the API of the IBM TCP/IP V1R2 as much as
   possible.
   The API is critical because it allows public domain software to be
   backported.

MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm
aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term.  Unfortunately, some public
domain software may also use the VMCF API.  It would be easier to
implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too.  However,
using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine
server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM
to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me.

2. The RXSOCKET library adapted for the VM/370 implementation of TCP/IP
   and REXX.

Not much use until REXX can do basic stuff like EXECIO.

3. RSCS tools (above) adapted for TCP/IP.

I don't know what you mean here.

I mean NAMES, NOTE, and SENDFILE all playing well with mixed (RSCS | TCP/IP) networks.

4. TELNET server

I'm not sure I see the need for a telnet server when Hercules already has
this built in.

Well, why do any of it?

Actually, this needs logical device support, so it is probably not be worthwhile.

5. mail gateway

My suggestion is to move the mail off system using NJE to a system which
can gateway it to the SMTP world.  I think this was often a preferable way
to do it anyway because IBM's SMTP server implementation for VM was not great.

When I say mail gateway I mean a basic DVM which passes mail between the VM system and a trusted external (modern) host.听 IBM's SMTP server implementation for VM was great ... for 1987.听 That was a long time ago.听 Basically, it's support for the mail client.

The RSCS BSMTP gateway may be sufficient.

6. mail client

I've got some ideas but not done anything.  Can't do everything.

Given the base TCP/IP听 and REXX, I can kick in on that.听 I once wrote an mail client with a line mode editor in REXX for Clarkson.

On 10/20/19 5:32 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote:

Drew Derbyshire wrote:

On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:

Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since
IBM's TCP/IP software is not available?

THAT question I like.

My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written for
Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP. This requires adding IUCV support
to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while.

Huh?听 Do you have a S/370 copy of MUSIC/SP?听 The 6.x demo is S/390 (I thought)

开云体育

Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.脗
Fix it.脗听脗听 (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).

Firstly often on VM/370 in order when you try and "fix it" you uncover a
whole leaning tower of Pisa of missing bits of code.

"I'm shocked, shocked!" -- Casablanca

I'm reminded of when, working as a contractor in Kingston, I found in the VM/XA SP 2 version of DIRECTXA that a table lookup routinely yielded a null pointer error, and it only silently worked because under CMS the machine check old PSW is always zero (CMS doesn't ever receive machine checks).听 Or at least it worked until I added a field to the table.听 (I did of course fix it.)

Written by humans, modified by humans, used by humans.

I wonder where you read that. The REXX on VM/370 is solid. It may appear
flaky but what is flaky is the loadable "C" run time.

help rexx ( more 

Usage Notes:

1.听 The BREXX interpretr is somewhat flakey.听 Please report any problems you
听听听 encounter to the H390-VM group on Yahoo.听 Try out REXXTRY EXEC!

also: 

help rexx

REXX Overview

The VM/370 Sixpack features an integrated version of BREXX.听 REXX procedures
have a filetype of EXEC, and must begin with "/* on the first line. 

Note that this is an incomplete port of BREXX to VM/370.听 In particular the
external variable and subcommand interfaces are not operational.

The external variable interface (and an EXECIO module exploiting it) is rather important.听

Can BREXX load/execute assemble packages such as RXUSERFN?听 it requires NUCEXT听 support, which of course is another rabbit hole (or as you put it, a leaning Tower of Pisa).

In general ...

While I seem to specialize in noting where things fall short, I'm not dismissing the efforts of you, Peter, and the many others to have gotten things to where they are in VM/370 Release 6 for Hercules.听 Not at all.听 I'm just trying to give constructive reviewer criticism to help improve things.

-ahd-

Hello!
(wearing my assistant list management hat)
Would all of you confirm that your settings work? Would those of you
who want their settings changed please contact me off list.

And Dave M, you get those six machines back. They are busy selecting
others for a stranger case job.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@...
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.脗
Fix it.脗听脗听 (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools).

Firstly often on VM/370 in order when you try and "fix it" you uncover a
whole leaning tower of Pisa of missing bits of code.
I wonder where you read that. The REXX on VM/370 is solid. It may appear
flaky but what is flaky is the loadable "C" run time.
It stole the DOS active flag on the grounds no one uses DOS. The trouble is
VM uses the flag and if something crashes the store clean up routine messes
up and CMS has to be re-ipled.
There is a fix but you need to re-link everything that uses the "C" loadable
run-time and I havn't got round to doing this yet.
It鈥檚 the one thing that makes CMS unreliable so its top of my list, well it
was until Yahoo broke things.

If any one needs it fixing quickly all the source and instructions are
available.

Dave
G4UGM

FWIW, Bernd Oppolzer over on IBM-MAIN has been promoting his substantial updates to the Stanford Pascal package for a few years now. He even has a version working on MVS3.8j and
VM/CMS. If the Pascal version source were available his compiler might well be usable in place of the Pascal/VS compiler. His Pascal home page is here:



Just a thought, should things ever get that far.

Peter

Yes, Standard Pascal is open source compiler package. It is possible to build RELAYV2 pascal files into execute for VM R6 system.
Also I can port it to OpenVMS version and Linux platforms with JNet or HUJI-NJE software.

Thanks for let me know that.

FWIW, Bernd Oppolzer over on IBM-MAIN has been promoting his substantial updates to the Stanford Pascal package for a few years now. He even has a version working on MVS3.8j and VM/CMS. If the Pascal version source were available his compiler might well be usable in place of the Pascal/VS compiler. His Pascal home page is here:



Just a thought, should things ever get that far.

Peter