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Re: Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
Drew Derbyshire wrote:
My long term plan is to leverage the TCP/IP and IUCV support I've written forOn 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:THAT question I like. Hercules to support TCP/IP on MUSIC/SP. This requires adding IUCV support to VM/370 R6 which I've started but it's going to take a while. I think EXECIO support is the most urgent requirement. I think I've got pretty much all of the above done execpt for remote operators. It's not released yet but I've given it to anyone who wants to try it out. Haven't I told you about this already Drew? I've written a hack to do this some time ago. I should dig it up and see about getting it finished. I wouldn't regard these as a priority. We can think about them when we get to the point of having so many people to communicate with that we cannot remember who is who. REXX with EXECIO should go a long way to implementing them. You forgot to mention RECEIVE. I've done limited hacks for both SENDFILE and RECEIVE. They need some more work but they are not as cumbersome as SPOOL PUN / TAG DEV PUN / PUNCH and ORDER / READCARD and they have some limited NETDATA support too. I haven't done anything on these yet. I wouldn't regard it as a priority. I'm very close to be able to do chat over NJE. I don't see any compelling reason to have TCP/IP based chat from VM. MUSIC/SP uses the IUCV form of that API to do TCP/IP so this is what I'm aiming at implementing for VM/CMS long term. Unfortunately, some public domain software may also use the VMCF API. It would be easier to implement the clients with the simpler VMCF interface too. However, using VMCF means having to implement some sort of TCPIP virtual machine server to traslate from VMCF into something that can get outside of VM to a TCP/IP network and that is quite beyond me. Not much use until REXX can do basic stuff like EXECIO. I don't know what you mean here. I'm not sure I see the need for a telnet server when Hercules already has this built in. My suggestion is to move the mail off system using NJE to a system which can gateway it to the SMTP world. I think this was often a preferable way to do it anyway because IBM's SMTP server implementaion for VM was not great. I've got some ideas but not done anything. Can't do everything. I'm close to being able to do a file server now so that's where I'm going with it. Regards, Peter Coghlan. |
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Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.
From the original author of the Pascal version of Relay: Between VT moving away from VM/XA as part of Y2K and the demise ofSomeone is working on RSCS and IUCV for VM/370 R6. I have good knowledge of pascal language so that I can port that to other modern C language. There are many IRCD source codes on github and others for Internet. Does anyone have any copy of Relay V1 (REXX version)? I know that Relay V2 is Pascal version. I used Relay on BITNET while I was student at University. |
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Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.
Hi, |
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Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.
Timothy Stark wrote:
Who said anything about "can't find"? I said that I misremembered asking about old Listserv code. It turns out I had been asking about something else entirely therefore I know nothing at all about the status of old Listserv code. That seems a bit premature. I don't have either, never had. I have an idea for this but given my record on other stuff, it's going to take a while before anything usable appears. Regards, Peter Coghlan. |
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Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.
On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark wrote:
I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.From the original author of the Pascal version of Relay: Between VT moving away from VM/XA as part of Y2K and the demise of Bitnet, it's been a long time since I've been sure I knew where the RELAY source was. Even if I had a copy, he'd need a legal copy of the Pascal/VS compiler to build it (I used that because Clarkson had a license for it, and the licensing on the runtime allowed me to ship a RELAYV2 MODULE that had the runtime linked in. The C compilers for VM didn't allow that.) I admit being surprised that anybody still has an RSCS network large enough to make running RELAY worthwhile. Also, unless he has a VM system that does IUCV, the Relay code won't work. And if we're talking VM/370 R6 that won't fly. If he's on VM/SP R6 that would be a different story. |
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Networking first needs (was Re: Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP)
开云体育On 10/19/19 4:01 PM, Timothy Stark
wrote:
You're getting ahead of yourself. Don't worry about application servers like LISTSERV (yet).I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system. Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far. Does anyone plan to re-write Listserv server from scratch or so? So pull them off your backup. (That's the SRE in me talking, oops.)Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and XYZZY software for communications. That is similar like IRC chat for Internet. I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard drive failure. Ditto for worrying these if they can't be found.Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with source codes? Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since IBM's TCP/IP software is not available? THAT question I like. First, be glad you're not talking MVS.? RSCS drops into VM/370
R6, and VM R6 even has TAG support.? OTOH, MVS NJE would require
major hacks in JES2. Second, I've seen documentation that says REXX on VM/370 R6 is flaky.? Fix it.?? (You'll need it for TCP/IP tools). Third, you need a more modern RSCS and its associated tools:
You won't have chat without TCP/IP (below), but I think it would
be worth the wait.
That's pretty long list right there.? Don't bother with writing servers that you can connect to off-system:
-ahd- |
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Listserv, Relay, Xyzzy and TCP/IP.
I reviewed some recent replies about Listserv software for VM/CMS R6 system.
Sad world, they can't find old Listserv copies so far. Does anyone plan to re-write Listserv server from scratch or so? Also I hope that someone could find RELAY (both Rexx and Pascal sources) and XYZZY software for communications. That is similar like IRC chat for Internet. I had a copy of XYZZY with sources but lost them due to my hard drive failure. Does anyone still have a copy of XYZZY chat program with source codes? Does anyone plan to develop new TCP/IP stack for VM/CMS R6 system since IBM's TCP/IP software is not available? Tim |
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Re: Lists and Hercules and LSoft
Gregg Levine wrote:
I finally managed to locate the email exchange in question in my mail archives. It turned out to be from nine years ago and unfortunately, my memory has been playing tricks on me :-( It was copies of old BITEARN NODES files that Lsoft had stashed on old 6250bpi round tapes, not old copies of Listserv software. Unfortunately, I have no information about how Lsoft feels about hobbyists running old versions of Listserv after all. Sorry for raising hopes. Regards, Peter Coghlan. |
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Re: Lists and Hercules and LSoft
Hello!
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Oh okay good reason. back them they just did not want to explain what did happen. Did they say how old these tapes were? And what sort of drive would have been used for them? I think Dave M here must have the style of tape drive it would have been used on. Oh and Peter funny thing, right after the message I am replying to, is the request from the list-bot for me to confirm your message. Dave they are done. It worked, and the target won't be able to do anything for a week. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 3:00 AM Peter Coghlan <groups@...> wrote:
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Re: Lists and Hercules and LSoft
Gregg Levine wrote:
I approached Lsoft about this some years ago. As far as I recall, the response back then was fairly positive but there were a number of snags. Firstly, Listserv for VM was archived on old tapes and no working drive was available to read them. Secondly, it is not going to run on VM/370 R6 without a lot of work. It's about 30 years since I last saw Listserv on VM but as far as I recall, it is mostly written in REXX. I suspect it makes a lot of use of EXECIO which I don't think we have at present. There are other smaller issues but I think this one is the showstopper at the moment. The good news is that having TCP/IP connectivity on VM/370 R6 is not a requirement to run Listserv. On VM, Listserv exchanged mail in the form of spool files with a mail transfer agent (such as Lsoft Lmail or the Crosswell Mailer) on the same VM system or with an off-system MTA by sending the spool files over NJE links to other systems. The latter is possible now on VM/370 R6 so mail can be transferred to an external system which has TCP/IP connectivity where it can be gatewayed into the SMTP world. I have an NJE link set up to my VMS system (running HUJI-NJE) which can get mail to and from the outside by routing it through the PMDF MTA on VMS. This is a bit fragile yet and there are issues with preventing spam etc but it seems to work most of the time. None of this is is likely to turn into a viable replacement for Yahoo groups before they go away (although Listserv can host files in general as well as mailing lists) but it is fun to play with. Regards, Peter Coghlan. |
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Lists and Hercules and LSoft
Hello!
Back when Hercules was still growing up and the original list was not as big as it is now, I made an interesting suggestion; Basically we could find out if the list server software from LSoft was still available from VM, we could track down a copy and get to run on Hercules running VM/370 Release 6. Naturally this was before I found out that two things did happen, one of them was that LSoft made the bad decision to get out of the list server on the appropriate IBM mainframe that we would be emulating for VM/370 Release 6. The second was that of how such a mainframe would find itself connected to the Internet. And naturally running that release. It's possible that IBM did create a preliminary stack for networking via TCP/IP protocols but, sadly a lot of the software we would need is not available. I found out about LSoft making that mistake at a trade show for the PC about the same time I met an R/370. The R/370 made a better impression than the droids from LSoft. Who here (now) would know which release of VM prior to the Z Branded releases did have networking available? I do know that Cliff Stoll mentions what we run and the MVS crowd in his book. Oh and Dave M? Please stop staring. The group does need all six to make things work. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." |
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Files
开云体育OK Folks, I have copied the “files” without the annotations, to this group.? I will try and annotate them over the next few days. ? Dave Wade G4UGM & EA7KAE ? |
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Re: Hi
Richard Harper
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-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> Date: 18/10/2019 08:12 (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Hi I only created H390-MTS (Which I own) and this one (because love VM and wanted to by-pass the dithering that’s? going on in Hercules-390) Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Levine > Sent: 18 October 2019 02:04 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Hi > > Hello! > Yes indeed. All is well. Now we need to encourage the remaining members on > the list to join. By the way? Who delivered the archive of file items? I'm not > worried about the printer output items I've uploaded. That can be reproduced > any time I need to ask about them, but, ah, who do I thank for it? Oh and Dave > W? Did you create the group next door on MVS? We still need to spin up the > one for DOSVS as it happens. > ----- > Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... > "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Thomas Kern via Groups.Io > <TLK_sysprog@...> wrote: > > > > I used the wrong email for the last join to this group. This email is the one I > use for Computer topics. > > > > /Tom Kern > > > > |
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Re: Hi
I have moved some files. Will nominally have until December to move the files and images, but given Yahoos record on file access it may break with the load as every one decamps.
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I only created H390-MTS (Which I own) and this one (because love VM and wanted to by-pass the dithering that’s going on in Hercules-390) Dave -----Original Message----- |
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Re: Hi
开云体育Folks, ? You can change your e-mail address on the web site without re-subscribing. You can also log in without a password. If go to the groups.io home page and are not logged in, just pop your E-Mail address in the top box and click the “e-mail me a link to log in” and that’s what will happen. Once logged in you can use the box top right to “view account” and then there is a “change e-mail” right below your e-mail address. ? You can set a password and log-in in the normal way, or link a facebook or google account. Might be worth setting your timezone, display name and checking few a few of the other settings. ? Dave ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Thomas Kern via Groups.Io
Sent: 18 October 2019 01:47 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Hi ? I used the wrong email for the last join to this group. This email is the one I use for Computer topics. |
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Re: Hi
Hello!
Yes indeed. All is well. Now we need to encourage the remaining members on the list to join. By the way? Who delivered the archive of file items? I'm not worried about the printer output items I've uploaded. That can be reproduced any time I need to ask about them, but, ah, who do I thank for it? Oh and Dave W? Did you create the group next door on MVS? We still need to spin up the one for DOSVS as it happens. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@... "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Thomas Kern via Groups.Io <TLK_sysprog@...> wrote:
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Dave McGuire
Thomas Kern
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