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Re: Applegate Wednesday
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMike, ? Are any UP engines in active duty configured as tunnel motors? ? Phil ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Tisdale via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 11:25 PM To: [email protected]; Observation Car <observationcar@...> Subject: [ObservationCar] Applegate Wednesday ? On the warm summer morning of 8 July 2007, UP 5282 leads an eastbound manifest train with some refers at the front into Tunnel 28 in Applegate, California. We're at around 2000' elevation and the train will have to climb nearly 5000 more feet before it reaches Donner Summit ?
? ? Mike Tisdale ? |
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Re: Washington Friday
There were GG-1s.? I think I got one this day, but I'd have to look through the other shots.? I'd gotten some in Newark and Harrisburg earlier that trip. Mike Tisdale
On Friday, January 10, 2020, 07:52:19 AM PST, matejka53@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote:
??? And I bet there were still a few GG1s around too!?? I was in and out of there pretty frequently in 1978-79.
Mike Matejka
Normal IL
-----Original Message----- From: Mike Tisdale tisdalem2001@... [ObservationCar] <ObservationCar@...> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Observation Car <observationcar@...> Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2020 11:38 pm Subject: [ObservationCar] Washington Friday
?
Washington Union Station action in June 1977
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Posted by: matejka53@...
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Re: For Friday, a Circle Trip around the Bay
That was the classic SP "Go One Way, Return Another".? They hoped you'd? take the City or Overland one way and the Golden State or Sunset the other, with a Daylight in between.? I've done that a few times with Amtrak.? Sacramento-Chicago on the Zephyr and the Empire Builder-Starlight or Starlight-Chief or Eagle-Sunset-San Joaquin the other way.? We've also done Broadway/3 Rivers one way and the Lake Shore or Capitol the other on the Chicago-east coast run.?? This May, my wife's siblings are doing a family reunion in North Carolina. Our route is San Joaquin-Sunset-Crescent for Sacramento-Alexandra, Virginia, then the Palmetto to Rocky Mount, NC.? The reunion will be a beach house 2 hours east of Rocky Mount.? On the way back, we are taking the Palmetto to NYC and have 4 nights in New York.? One day, we are going to New Haven to see a friend graduate from Yale.? The return from New York will be via the Lake Shore and Zephyr.?? Mike Tisdale
On Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 04:37:46 PM PST, 'Phil Burton' philip-b@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote:
Or a circle trip from Chicago to SF, to LA, and back to Chicago.? About a week¡¯s worth of travel. ? Phil ? From: ObservationCar@... [mailto:ObservationCar@...]
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:30 PM To: observationcar@...; ObservationCar@... Subject: Re: [ObservationCar] For Friday, a Circle Trip around the Bay ? If we want to go back to the 1950s, well where could you NOT have a circle trip?? Especially if you didn't mind making it at least one night out. ? How about the South Wind or City of Miami, Chicago to Birmingham, Kansas City-Florida Special to Kansas City and Burlington or Santa Fe back to Chicago?? GM&O or IC or Wabash Chicago-St Louis, overnight on the Zephyr-Rocket to the Twin Cities and the Zephyr, Hiawatha or 400 back to Chicago.? Chicago-Louisville on the Monon, Louisville-Cincinnati on the L&N, Cincinnati-Chicago on the PRR or NYC.? Chicago-Toledo NYC, Toledo-Liman B&O, Lima-Chicago PRR.?? ? Oakland or Sacramento to Winnemucca on the CZ, return on the SP.? Or, for a short loop, Sacramento-Stockton on the Sacramento Daylight, return on the CZ. ? The possibilities are almost endless.?? ? Mike Tisdale ? On Monday, January 6, 2020, 09:51:37 PM PST, 'Phil Burton' philip-b@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? Mike, ? You could do several different variations on the circle trip to/from Stillwell, Avenue, Brooklyn, or Coney Island, the end of the line for four different ¡°letter¡± services on the NY subway system.? Originally these lines were all part of the BMT system.? Look at the very bottom center of this map.? ? I was in NY last summer and actually did one of these trips.? Total time about three hours, depending on how many times you get off along the way for photos. ? You can also do circle trips starting at Jamaica Station on the LIRR.? Go to Manhattan via LIRR, then take the subway to the LIRR Atlantic Avenue terminal in Brooklyn, then take an LIRR train back to Jamaica.? There are plenty of other such trips if you are willing to pay an extra fare and walk a few blocks..? But they are not as impressive as the 1950s circle trip around Chicago. ? Phil Burton ? From: ObservationCar@... [mailto:ObservationCar@...] ? Thank you Mike.? I'll be posting the rest of the trip soon.?? ? I want to ride Brightline if I get to Florida again, as well as Tri Rail and the new system operating near Orlando.?? ? You can ride the Muni K and J lines back to back, connecting at Balboa Park, if memory services.? You can also do the Muni T line to Bayshore, the end of the line and take Caltrain back or BART to Milbrae and Caltrain back, among a lot of others.? F line cable car to Fishermen's Wharf and the Powel-Mason or Powell-Hyde cable cars back? ? Circle trips elsehwere.... ? Well, obviously something line New York-Albany, Albany-Boston and Boston-New York could be done and probably in a day.? The northeast has quite a few opportunities for loops, be it the New York City subway or different commuter routes. ? You could take the South Shore from Chicago to Michigan City or South Bend and Amtrak back or the other way round.? The C&NW and Milwaukee Metra commuter lines going north to Lake Forest could be a circle and I think San Carlson took me to Prairie Crossing where? two Metra lines crossed.? You could also get to Blue Island on the Metra Electric line and get back on the Rock Island.?? ? If you don't mind a rubber tire leg of the trip, which I used to get from Martinez to Santa Rosa, you could probably connect between the ends of various commuter routes.?? ? Then there are the long distance loops.? You can do variations on the old SP ad..? The Golden State isn't and option, but the SW Chief parallels the SP-CRIP route and the CZ follows the route of the City of SF west of Alazon, Nevada. ? Cheers, ? Mike Tisdale ? ? ? On Friday, January 3, 2020, 12:16:24 PM PST, matejka53@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? ? Fun!? Well done, Mike, great photos -- those kind of trips are great fun, particularly in the execution.? I remember once in 1977 doing a "circle San Francisco" trip on PCC cars, riding the outermost lines -- 45 cents, I think with transfers.? I'm sure it can still be done today. ? A magazine story I remember from years ago, just because it's so close to home, was someone in the early 1950s riding the Wabash from Chicago to Decatur, Illinois; the Illinois Terminal interurban from Decatur to Bloomington; and then the "Alton Limited" on the Chicago & Alton home to Chicago.? This makes me wonder - using commuter, Amtrak, or maybe even tourist rails, what "circle trips" are do-able today? ? Mike Matejka Normal IL ? -----Original Message----- ? SP used to advertise "Go One Way, Return Another", encouraging people in the eastern US use one of their routes to go west to California and return via a different route.? Passengers could go west on the Overland or City of SF, visit northern California, then take the Daylight down the coast, take in the LA region and return east on the Sunset or Golden State. Or maybe go north to Portland on the Shasta Daylight or Cascade and then go back on the NP, GN or Milwaukee.?? ? We can do this on a smaller scale in northern California.? A day trip can involve a loop on different routes.?? ? SMART, the commuter rail service in Marin and Sonoma Counties, north of San Francisco, recently extended their Santa Rosa-San Rafael route a couple of miles south to Larkspur, where ferries run to San Francisco.? It was time for me to take another SMART ride and I planned a trip using Sacramento light rail from my local station to the downtown Sacramento Amtrak station, a Capitol Corridor train to Martinez, an Amtrak connecting bus to Santa Rosa, SMART to Larkspur, ferries to San Francisco and then to Oakland and Amtrak home from Oakland, with the final leg on light rail.. ? This is part 1 of the trip..? We get as far as the middle of San Francisco Bay on the ferry from Larkspur to SF.? Part 2 will have more of sunset on the bay, PCCs and a Melbourne tram in SF and the trip home. ?
?
? Mike Tisdale ? ? ? ? __._,_.___
Posted by: "Phil Burton" <philip-b@...>
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Re: For Friday, a Circle Trip around the Bay
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOr a circle trip from Chicago to SF, to LA, and back to Chicago.? About a week¡¯s worth of travel. ? Phil ? From: ObservationCar@... [mailto:ObservationCar@...]
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:30 PM To: observationcar@...; ObservationCar@... Subject: Re: [ObservationCar] For Friday, a Circle Trip around the Bay ? If we want to go back to the 1950s, well where could you NOT have a circle trip?? Especially if you didn't mind making it at least one night out. ? How about the South Wind or City of Miami, Chicago to Birmingham, Kansas City-Florida Special to Kansas City and Burlington or Santa Fe back to Chicago?? GM&O or IC or Wabash Chicago-St Louis, overnight on the Zephyr-Rocket to the Twin Cities and the Zephyr, Hiawatha or 400 back to Chicago.? Chicago-Louisville on the Monon, Louisville-Cincinnati on the L&N, Cincinnati-Chicago on the PRR or NYC.? Chicago-Toledo NYC, Toledo-Liman B&O, Lima-Chicago PRR.?? ? Oakland or Sacramento to Winnemucca on the CZ, return on the SP.? Or, for a short loop, Sacramento-Stockton on the Sacramento Daylight, return on the CZ. ? The possibilities are almost endless.?? ? Mike Tisdale ? On Monday, January 6, 2020, 09:51:37 PM PST, 'Phil Burton' philip-b@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? Mike, ? You could do several different variations on the circle trip to/from Stillwell, Avenue, Brooklyn, or Coney Island, the end of the line for four different ¡°letter¡± services on the NY subway system.? Originally these lines were all part of the BMT system.? Look at the very bottom center of this map.? ? I was in NY last summer and actually did one of these trips.? Total time about three hours, depending on how many times you get off along the way for photos. ? You can also do circle trips starting at Jamaica Station on the LIRR.? Go to Manhattan via LIRR, then take the subway to the LIRR Atlantic Avenue terminal in Brooklyn, then take an LIRR train back to Jamaica.? There are plenty of other such trips if you are willing to pay an extra fare and walk a few blocks..? But they are not as impressive as the 1950s circle trip around Chicago. ? Phil Burton ? From: ObservationCar@... [mailto:ObservationCar@...] ? Thank you Mike.? I'll be posting the rest of the trip soon.?? ? I want to ride Brightline if I get to Florida again, as well as Tri Rail and the new system operating near Orlando.?? ? You can ride the Muni K and J lines back to back, connecting at Balboa Park, if memory services.? You can also do the Muni T line to Bayshore, the end of the line and take Caltrain back or BART to Milbrae and Caltrain back, among a lot of others.? F line cable car to Fishermen's Wharf and the Powel-Mason or Powell-Hyde cable cars back? ? Circle trips elsehwere.... ? Well, obviously something line New York-Albany, Albany-Boston and Boston-New York could be done and probably in a day.? The northeast has quite a few opportunities for loops, be it the New York City subway or different commuter routes. ? You could take the South Shore from Chicago to Michigan City or South Bend and Amtrak back or the other way round.? The C&NW and Milwaukee Metra commuter lines going north to Lake Forest could be a circle and I think San Carlson took me to Prairie Crossing where? two Metra lines crossed.? You could also get to Blue Island on the Metra Electric line and get back on the Rock Island.?? ? If you don't mind a rubber tire leg of the trip, which I used to get from Martinez to Santa Rosa, you could probably connect between the ends of various commuter routes.?? ? Then there are the long distance loops.? You can do variations on the old SP ad..? The Golden State isn't and option, but the SW Chief parallels the SP-CRIP route and the CZ follows the route of the City of SF west of Alazon, Nevada. ? Cheers, ? Mike Tisdale ? ? ? On Friday, January 3, 2020, 12:16:24 PM PST, matejka53@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? ? Fun!? Well done, Mike, great photos -- those kind of trips are great fun, particularly in the execution.? I remember once in 1977 doing a "circle San Francisco" trip on PCC cars, riding the outermost lines -- 45 cents, I think with transfers.? I'm sure it can still be done today. ? A magazine story I remember from years ago, just because it's so close to home, was someone in the early 1950s riding the Wabash from Chicago to Decatur, Illinois; the Illinois Terminal interurban from Decatur to Bloomington; and then the "Alton Limited" on the Chicago & Alton home to Chicago.? This makes me wonder - using commuter, Amtrak, or maybe even tourist rails, what "circle trips" are do-able today? ? Mike Matejka Normal IL ? -----Original Message----- ? SP used to advertise "Go One Way, Return Another", encouraging people in the eastern US use one of their routes to go west to California and return via a different route.? Passengers could go west on the Overland or City of SF, visit northern California, then take the Daylight down the coast, take in the LA region and return east on the Sunset or Golden State. Or maybe go north to Portland on the Shasta Daylight or Cascade and then go back on the NP, GN or Milwaukee.?? ? We can do this on a smaller scale in northern California.? A day trip can involve a loop on different routes.?? ? SMART, the commuter rail service in Marin and Sonoma Counties, north of San Francisco, recently extended their Santa Rosa-San Rafael route a couple of miles south to Larkspur, where ferries run to San Francisco.? It was time for me to take another SMART ride and I planned a trip using Sacramento light rail from my local station to the downtown Sacramento Amtrak station, a Capitol Corridor train to Martinez, an Amtrak connecting bus to Santa Rosa, SMART to Larkspur, ferries to San Francisco and then to Oakland and Amtrak home from Oakland, with the final leg on light rail.. ? This is part 1 of the trip..? We get as far as the middle of San Francisco Bay on the ferry from Larkspur to SF.? Part 2 will have more of sunset on the bay, PCCs and a Melbourne tram in SF and the trip home. ?
?
? Mike Tisdale ? ? ? ? __._,_.___
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Re: 112 years old and still in service
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýForgot to include that thread: ? ? Phil Burton ? From: Phil Burton [mailto:philip-b@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 9:32 PM To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; 'observationcar@...' <observationcar@...> Subject: RE: [ObservationCar] 112 years old and still in service ? Mike, ? Your explanation of self-lapping vs older brake valves reminded me that subway cars built before WW II for the various NYC systems were not self-lapping.? They had the designation ME-23.? (Don¡¯t ask me why I still remember this stuff.)? Post WW II cars had self-lapping brakes, designated ME-42.? I think these designations were Westinghouse Air Brake models. ? This is an interesting thread. ? Phil Burton ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Tisdale via Groups.Io ? I don't know what Transport Canada's rules are, but I could see how an older brake stand that is not self lapping could be banned. ? If self lapping sounds like your dog or cat bathing itself, please bear with me if you know some or all of this... ? Air brakes function by charging the brake line to release the brakes and reducing the pressure in the brake line to apply the brakes.? In general, in North America, freight brake lines are pressurized to 90 psi, passenger to 110 psi.? To apply the brakes, a certain reduction in the brake line air pressure is made, typically 15 psi for a service application.?? ? With me so far? ? A brake valve has several positions.? Release pressurizes the brake line and releases the brakes.? Lap holds the air pressure in the line at whatever it is, neither reducing it or increasing it.? Then there are service, full service and emergency positions.? In emergency, the brake pipe pressure is reduced to 0 as quickly as possible.? The triple valves on the cars will dump the air as well as the locomotive brake stand in emergency, that is why when a locomotive uncouples from a train without the angle cock on the air line being closed, you will hear the air dump from all the cars in the train.? It you hear this while riding a passenger train, brace yourself, the train is going to stop quickly.?? ? Sorry for the digression, back to the brake valve.? When the engineer moves the brake handle to service, the brake pipe reduction is made through the valve on the locomotive, rather than applying nearly instantly on all cars as happens when the train goes into emergency.?? ? With a modern, self lapping brake valve, the engineer can put the brake handle to service, the brake valve will make a 15 psi reduction, then close or lap the brake pipe exhaust, limiting the reduction to 15 psi.? With an older, non-self lapping brake valve, the engineer has to move the handle to the lap position to hold the brake pipe reduction at 15 psi, otherwise the brake pipe reduction will continue and the train will eventually go into emergency. ? If an engineer is used to modern, self lapping brake valves, and he encounters an older one that does not self lap, he might inadvertently? put the train into emergency, which can cause the train to jackknife and derail or, at best, it will cause the train to stop where, perhaps, it was not supposed to, and have to remain stopped until brake pipe pressure can be restored. ? I'm guessing that is why Transport Canada doesn't want non self lapping brake valves in regular service on common carrier railroads.? Museums are one thing as the crews on them probably only encounter older brake valves on their engines and know to act accordingly, but having one engine with an old brake valve on a common carrier could cause trouble. ? Mike Tisdale...realizing that this isn't quite railroad "art" or "literature", but might be useful to know. ? On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 11:31:00 AM PST, Stephen Host steve@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? Very correct. To be fair the owners were connected to and part owners of __._,_.___
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Re: 112 years old and still in service
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMike, ? Your explanation of self-lapping vs older brake valves reminded me that subway cars built before WW II for the various NYC systems were not self-lapping.? They had the designation ME-23.? (Don¡¯t ask me why I still remember this stuff.)? Post WW II cars had self-lapping brakes, designated ME-42.? I think these designations were Westinghouse Air Brake models. ? This is an interesting thread. ? Phil Burton ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Tisdale via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 12:31 PM To: observationcar@...; ObservationCar@...; [email protected] Subject: Re: [ObservationCar] 112 years old and still in service ? I don't know what Transport Canada's rules are, but I could see how an older brake stand that is not self lapping could be banned. ? If self lapping sounds like your dog or cat bathing itself, please bear with me if you know some or all of this... ? Air brakes function by charging the brake line to release the brakes and reducing the pressure in the brake line to apply the brakes.? In general, in North America, freight brake lines are pressurized to 90 psi, passenger to 110 psi.? To apply the brakes, a certain reduction in the brake line air pressure is made, typically 15 psi for a service application.?? ? With me so far? ? A brake valve has several positions.? Release pressurizes the brake line and releases the brakes.? Lap holds the air pressure in the line at whatever it is, neither reducing it or increasing it.? Then there are service, full service and emergency positions.? In emergency, the brake pipe pressure is reduced to 0 as quickly as possible.? The triple valves on the cars will dump the air as well as the locomotive brake stand in emergency, that is why when a locomotive uncouples from a train without the angle cock on the air line being closed, you will hear the air dump from all the cars in the train.? It you hear this while riding a passenger train, brace yourself, the train is going to stop quickly.?? ? Sorry for the digression, back to the brake valve.? When the engineer moves the brake handle to service, the brake pipe reduction is made through the valve on the locomotive, rather than applying nearly instantly on all cars as happens when the train goes into emergency.?? ? With a modern, self lapping brake valve, the engineer can put the brake handle to service, the brake valve will make a 15 psi reduction, then close or lap the brake pipe exhaust, limiting the reduction to 15 psi.? With an older, non-self lapping brake valve, the engineer has to move the handle to the lap position to hold the brake pipe reduction at 15 psi, otherwise the brake pipe reduction will continue and the train will eventually go into emergency. ? If an engineer is used to modern, self lapping brake valves, and he encounters an older one that does not self lap, he might inadvertently? put the train into emergency, which can cause the train to jackknife and derail or, at best, it will cause the train to stop where, perhaps, it was not supposed to, and have to remain stopped until brake pipe pressure can be restored. ? I'm guessing that is why Transport Canada doesn't want non self lapping brake valves in regular service on common carrier railroads.? Museums are one thing as the crews on them probably only encounter older brake valves on their engines and know to act accordingly, but having one engine with an old brake valve on a common carrier could cause trouble. ? Mike Tisdale...realizing that this isn't quite railroad "art" or "literature", but might be useful to know. ? On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 11:31:00 AM PST, Stephen Host steve@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote: ? ? ? Very correct. To be fair the owners were connected to and part owners of __._,_.___
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Re: For Monday, from Forest to Sagebrush
No, we are just going slowly and the wind is blowing the smoke ahead of the train.? C&TS has engines leading its trains.? We are going downhill in this batch of photos, so the engine is not working much steam.? Mike Tisdale
On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, 10:13:51 AM PST, 'Phil Burton' philip-b@... [ObservationCar] <observationcar@...> wrote:
Mike, ? It seems judging by how the smoke is moving away from the engine that the engine is at the back of the train pushing.? Is this correct? ? Happy New Year, ? Phil Burton ? From: ObservationCar@... [mailto:ObservationCar@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 10:30 PM To: [email protected]; Observation Car <observationcar@...> Subject: [ObservationCar] For Monday, from Forest to Sagebrush ? The last leg of the Cumbres and Totec's eastbound trip from Sublette to Antonito. ? ?
? ? ? Mike Tisdale ? __._,_.___
Posted by: "Phil Burton" <philip-b@...>
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