On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 03:16 PM, James Bowery wrote:

Some of the lines are just a leading blank with:

?<someguys@...>

No leading blanks and no < > on those.? Have a look at /helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/inviting-people-to-join-a-group

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
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I think the reason this subject can get heated is that it is one of the few where Mark (and some moderators) does/do not seem to grok (perceive in appropriate depth) the valid objections certain group owners have with the “present” system (which also existed on Yahoo). ?The significant difference there was that Yahoo was almost universally perceived as ineffective and disinterested “management”, the antithesis of the image Mark projects here on .

Somename <someguys@...>

one per line submitted.

Some of the lines are just a leading blank with:

?<someguys@...>

Thanks!

As illustrated by my prior response, "Sent Invitations" says no invitations have been sent.? So, presuming there must have been some problem with my submission I tried again.

After re-submitting the tab separated name and email lines I received feedback that the emails were invalid and I figured out they had been surrounded by quotes.? So I removed all quotes and re-submitted again.

This time no errors but rather the message about needing "approval" again:

"You have reached the limit for number of invites that can be sent out without approval. Once your new invites have been approved, they will be sent out. You will receive a notification when this happens."

Yet when I went to the "Sent Invitations" page, it, again, said "There are no invitations."

The phrase "reached the limit" seems to imply that up till that limit, invitations are sent but then beyond that limit they are only sent after "approval".

How many invitations can be sent without approval?? How many invitations?are sent without approval when there are too many for all?to be sent without approval?? None?

>?I am talking about no one even commented on my suggestions. It was like I had never written them.

A well written thought hardly requires correction or comment. Congradulate yourself! Anything I write that gets a comment is due to a flaw or oversight in my writing or on the part of an ocassional careless reading. And good thoughts may generate others ponderance so again, no responce - good job. You're an owner. Most of what you do gets no pat on the back, but no slaps, either. Need those? Start a self-help group for it. Personally, I don't think much [positively] towards folks on the "what-he-said," bandwagon. You're an owner. You took that gauntlet up. That alone says enough [positive] about you. If you need to write that down and put it in your wallet (or clutch,) do so. There's nothing wrong w your ideas. That alone paints them worthy. Some folks have a... "talent," we'll call it, or desire and ability, for generating discussion that gets remarks. This is not neccessarily *always* a positive attribute nor does it means they are born leaders. It does not build them or their ideas up nor should it comparitively belittle your ideas or you in any way. Don't be a joiner or a follower. Stay, You. You, "is good thing."

BillSF9c

James,

In your first message you said that you have tried uploading your invitation list twice. The first time, you accidentally uploaded your Yahoo! Groups data file in ZIP format, so that didn't work for obvious reasons. The second time, you uploaded a TSV file. That would not work either. The instruction says: "Upload a file containing the email addresses to invite, one per line." The only format acceptable is a plain text file with one email address (and, optionally, a Display Name) per line. So, on each line you can have
email@...
or
Display Name <email@...>

Try putting together a text file with that format and upload it. If you do more than 20 invitations at a time, you'll get the "waiting for approval" message. That just means that the addresses are being validated, which usually takes less than an hour, and often is very quick. Check your "Invites Sent" once in a while and pretty soon they will appear.

--
Robert R.

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Oh I know that you don't congratulate yourself. But I say you do a great job reporting the bugs. ? But I?mentioned a sort of bug?to GMF yesterday and was told to write about to the Beta group which I at first said I would but didn't do and will not. It had to do with the deletion of a graphic. ? Now I am not talking about attachments. This was an email where the graphics were embedded in the body of the email. It shows up in the upper portion of the email when moderating it in the pending messages. They also show up in squares down below. Now when a graphic is deleted from below by checking off the delete tic for that graphic but doing nothing above, when that message is approved, in the email version of the share, we see a X where the graphic used to be. However in the message archives there isn't any X and it is completely gone. ? So in order to get rid of the X in the body of the email version, I was told that both the upper and lower sections needed to be removed. I did that the next time and it worked. But I was also?told that it may be a bug and I should write about it on Beta. ? Leeni ?? ? ? ? ?

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 05:01 PM, Ken Cameron wrote:

That's the biggest gap, is the group intended to
continue beyond the owner or not. While I think for many groups the intent
is to continue, I'm sure there are some that do not intend it to continue.

And to muddy the waters a bit (perhaps!) what about the situation where members have paid to be members under the planned new charging or donation schemes? It seems entirely wrong that an owner can accept money from individuals while knowing that if anything happens to them (the owner) then the group "dies" and the member's payment is then worthless.

Chris

".... my primary concern, which I believe most share, is for a group to be able to continue with a new Owner. 
Currently there is not enough protection for an Owner to be comfortable in many/most cases to have multiple Owners, or to designate who (or how) a Moderator or Member would be promoted to Owner should all current Owner(s) be on the same Bus/Plane that crashes with no survivors (or perish from getting COVID, perhaps at the same gathering)...

Those who say such a thing couldn't happen forget that whole teams have perished in plane crashes, or that Pearl Harbor, 9/11, or such tragedies have occurred."

I have a suggestion.

A few days ago, I was looking through an old notebook and found a Hotmail address I had used years ago.?? I went to Hotmail to check that address and see if there were any messages there.?? The reply I received stated that no such email address existed.

?? That tells me that there is a timer somewhere in their software that says that after a certain amount of time, maybe years,? if there was no activity on my part, the email address was purged.

What an idea!!!?? A timer, that monitors whether a person makes themselves known for a certain amount of time!!!

??? Well, ok, how about this.??? Pick a time, maybe a couple of years, maybe 3 or maybe 1, if the owner of a group has not checked in, has not done anything to prove he still exists, then the ownership of the group becomes available to the most senior moderator if that moderator writes in and requests to be made owner.

?? After all, if the owner trusted that person to be a moderator, he must have been in good standing with the owner all along.

?? If the most senior moderator has also been absent for a while, maybe a request from the second-most senior moderator could trigger another timer, that timer would give the first most senior moderator something like 6 months to make himself known.? If he did not, then the ownership would be available to the second-most senior moderator.

?? And so on, through all the moderators.

?? This whole scenario would give the original owner ample time to come out of the woodwork if he was paying any attention at all and respond to a notice that would be sent to him telling him that his timer was about to time-out.

?? If he did not respond, it would be assumed that he is no longer alive and does not care


[ad trimmed by moderator]

Duane:

There was a sometimes heated discussion about that on the beta group awhile back.? I think Mark decided the current mechanism was a good compromise of the sides.? The original owner (founder) can maintain ultimate control, but give moderators all the permissions so they can do everything except promote themselves to owner, demote an owner, and delete group.? They can promote others to the same moderator level as themselves, so the group should be able to continue indefinitely.

Thank you, Duane. That's fine for me and that's what I did.
Judging from the posts, I see that the subject is still a hot one, though.
Regards,
Marina

?

One option that might make the automatic option more trustable would be that
an owner must have more than one way to be contacted. Like an additional
email, text, or voice response phone number. The timer would try the
alternate method before going further. The idea is to give the owner a last
chance in case they had an email problem. Think of it as a keep alive
reminding them that they are an owner. This might also be useful to the case
of the owner email going into the bouncing state. Granted we'd still have
the issue of these becoming outdated but failure of these help support the
case where the survivor selection from the moderators or members become
important.

That last part, that a group member might be promoted, covers where the
single owner didn't want other moderators. They could tag anyone in the
group for promotion if they cease to respond to any contact. I could also
see the system sending warning messages if the owner hasn't been seen. The
warnings could also contain options for the owner to change things like
promote sooner, change who is promotable, etc...

But at the top of all of this should be a selection by the owner about the
group being something that should or should not be continued if they are
found to be 'not found'. That's the biggest gap, is the group intended to
continue beyond the owner or not. While I think for many groups the intent
is to continue, I'm sure there are some that do not intend it to continue.
Knowing the intent would make all of this much clearer as to what GIO should
be doing. That in turn justifies what should happen.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:59 AM, Janice wrote:

I read Mark's explanation but it doesn't make sense to me.?

Janice -- Me neither...and as you can see, I was kinda blindsided by it. But I was treated right, and got my refund within 5 days.

Changing your billing period should not affect your yearly subscription rate.? If I paid my mortgage for a full year and then the next year I went back to paying on a monthly basis, it would not change my mortgage amount.

To be clear -- for the benefit of others -- switching from monthly to yearly does not cause you to lose your grandfathered Premium rate. Switching back from yearly to monthly does, or at least that's the way I read it.

Sounds like a rip off to me

I don't think he's trying to cheat anybody.

The policy does not affect your current payment plan. Just stick with $10/month and you should be fine.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 09:51 AM, Leeni wrote:

I know that a lot of suggestions come to that group. I see them. I do not take it personally, but at this time if others in this GMF group feel it is worthy of consideration, they can make the suggestion. It does seem that some members have?more clout then others. ?

Leeni -- I will occasionally take a post here in GMF forward and issue?bug report?on someone else's behalf. I will not do that with suggestions.?To the extent that you might see my posts being acted upon, that simply reflects the fact that bugs are bugs, and need prompt attention. I can assure you that I'm not sitting here congratulating myself on my level of influence on Mark.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 09:11 AM, Leeni wrote:

But being a Basic group owner, I feel what I have to say really has no weight as far as suggestions go.

As far as I'm aware, the only time Basic vs Premium makes any difference is if you send an email to support.

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

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I understand that Mark may not reply to all of the suggestions, but I am not even talking about Mark's replies. I am talking about no one even commented on my suggestions. It was like I had never written them. My suggestions that I had made in the past would help groups IO with what is going on now with overload. But I will not make them again nor make any of the new suggestions and there are 2 of them that I mentioned here in GMF. ? One thing congrats that your suggestions was liked which brings me to say, you never know when something will be picked up on. But being a Basic group owner, I feel what I have to say really has no weight as far as suggestions go. That is just my feeling. If anyone wants to suggest the 2 suggestions I had mentioned here in GMF, feel free to do so. And I would know that the suggestions may be responded to because it isn't coming from me but a member who has clout. ? ? ? ? ?

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 08:50 AM, Janice wrote:

I'm just wondering why my grandfathered group @ $10 per month or $110 if billed yearly would suddenly change to $20 per month or $220 per year because I switched my billing period.

Here's Mark's explanation -

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

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I know that a lot of suggestions come to that group. I see them. I do not take it personally, but at this time if others in this GMF group feel it is worthy of consideration, they can make the suggestion. It does seem that some members have?more clout then others. ? ? ? ? ?

Fonald, I was meaning to suggest that an email address OR MAYBE IP... which is banned, be able to be readily noticed by owners/mods when applying elsewhere... or for a year, perhaps.

You cause me to recall that yahoo had both Removal and Ban. Removal allowed rejoining, if owners/mods approved it... whete approval is a requirement. Yes, bans are quite rarely needed.

BillSF9c