开云体育

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 05:42 AM, Tim Morris wrote:

However, none of this explains why he was receiving the “daily summary” prior to membership approval.

That was a bug and was squashed on July 2 (just a few minutes after it was reported!),

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 04:32 PM, Rubens wrote:

Not just Gmail.
I use OUTLOOK eMail Provider Service
and never had any problem with them.

Others have though.? There's an incomplete list of the email providers that have done this to people at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/5115#Service-Providers

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

I’m just sticking my oar in here because my similar problems remain unresolved....

Applicants were not receiving my set email in response to a request to join.

those people are called members on one of the pages

applicants were getting a daily summary sent to them before being approved.

recently, someone that did not get my automated email, has suddenly become a member subsequent to me sending them an email manually!

i have to admit to finding the system really frustrating, possibly due to my own lack of time to figure out what’s happening exactly....

Tim Morris

...
IF| We have no control over what our email
| providers do. Almost every big email
| provider is on the list of providers
| where this can happen, except Gmail,


Not just Gmail.
I use OUTLOOK eMail Provider Service
and never had any problem with them.

I prefer Outlook or Yahoo over Gmail.
I don't like the Gmail's interface and
its lack of full compliance with IMAP
rules.


[ ] Rubens














.

To me the most obvious reason to have an expiry on either the email me a link or the re-subscribe is if that link gets into the wrong hands it would allow a ne'er do well access

Emails go astray, or get copied or forwarded in error, or accounts get hacked

So an expiry is a must as far as I can see

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 02:27 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:

I've
yet to see any reason given for having any expiry date at all.

It may be something similar to invitations (in addition to the record keeping.)? If you don't remove an invitation from the list, it can be used at any time in the future.? There have been a couple of problems where someone was booted from a group and got back in because they still had the invitation.? If there were no expiration on removals, the same thing could happen (at a much later date.)

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

I've been a member of this group (and Beta) almost since the start, and I've
yet to see any reason given for having any expiry date at all. It just seems to
be a pointless irritant.

Jim

Ilana,
I would suggest that you insist on having a backup contact of some kind from each member; a phone/text number or other contact.
Other than a backup contact, it would be far better to educate and strongly encourage your members to use groups.io
Online.? Theycan do that without using a password.
You can find that in the very extensive help available by clicking/tapping the Help at on the onlinr screen.
That particular function is at
?/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/understanding-groups-io-accounts/logging-in-to-your-account?single=true
--

Bob Bellizzi

ISIS,

It seems that you are making some assumptions that don't hold water.? For one, you assume the problem is unique to groups.io.? It isn't, in fact they are one of the few that let you know about it.? Second, you seem to assume that this is a problem where in reality most of the time there are good reasons for it.? Often people die, their mailbox gets deleted or inactivated but groups subscribed to it don't get notified.? Old people often hit the spam icon by mistake is another problem but the member gets emails immediately telling them of the problem and giving them an icon to hit that resubscribes them.? I've had a group for over 20 years on yahoo much like yours where most are older or not too technical, we moved to groups.io with well over 4000 members.? After moving to groups.io last year I found that all but 1500 of them were invalid email addresses.? That means that yahoo was doing exactly what you don't want but wasn't telling anyone and your roster count is useless if you use that figure for anything.? They just stopped sending email to the member and didn't tell us.

Also, when was the last time you had a provider who has groups such as this and the beta group where you can get such marvelous support and reach the developers directly?

John P

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 03:13 PM, Ilana DeBare wrote:

it sounds like I should do two things for spam prevention:

1. In my welcome message, ask everyone to add the groups.io email to their list of contacts.?

For the avoidance of doubt... the "list of contacts" has to be in the mail provider's contact list, not that in an email client.

FWIW my ISP "improved" its email interface with the result that it no longer offered the ability to turn spam filtering off which was a quick and easy way of stopping things being shunted off to a place I could not see unless I went out of my way to find it. As a result I had to load a batch of Groups.io addresses into my service provider's contact list. Theoretically the provider's filtering should have been responsive to my marking messages as Not Spam but it didn't take long for me to realise that it simply ignored this so the only solution was to add a list of Groups.io addresses.

As others have said Groups.io is not the bad guy in all this.

Chris

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:08 AM, Peter Cook wrote:

I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but In my groups, yahoo addresses represent 35% of the removal-for-spam incidents.

Ironic, isn't it?

Lots of people still have Yahoo Mail accounts because for awhile you *had* to...in order to subscribe to Yahoo Groups. Now that many Yahoo Groups have migrated to groups.io, Yahoo Mail accounts are disproportionately represented among groups.io subscribers.

But I think Duane was talking about Yahoo Groups and Google Groups here, not Yahoo and Google as email providers. Those two listservs (or whatever you want to call them) were "too big to fail," and can thus better afford to ignore incoming FBL notifications. The ironic part is that while Yahoo Groups didn't react to FBL reports (that I've ever noticed), Yahoo Mail/Verizon does nonetheless send them.

Clearly, groups.io is not yet in this position. About once a month its IP address lands on someone's blacklist, and all mail to affected domains gets rejected. The most recent one was AT&T/prodiogy/sbcglobal, only 10 days ago (Ref:?).

Mark continues to work on this as best he can, but as long as such things continue to occur we're kinda stuck with where we are now. To the extent that all of us head off any false spam reports -- and complain to our own email providers when their algorithms fail to work properly -- we can actually help him to build the reputation that others already have.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:08 AM, Peter Cook wrote:

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 09:37 AM, Duane wrote:

The "big fish" like Yahoo and Google don't get blocked very often, if at all.

Duane, I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but In my groups, yahoo addresses represent 35% of the removal-for-spam incidents.

Yeah, I should have stated that more clearly.? GIO honors the FBL and will remove people.? Yahoo and Google (the big fish) don't honor the FBL as far as I can tell, so won't kick people off.? GIO needs to build a reputation as a service while the others already have one built.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 09:37 AM, Duane wrote:

The "big fish" like Yahoo and Google don't get blocked very often, if at all.

Duane, I may be misinterpreting what you're saying but In my groups, yahoo addresses represent 35% of the removal-for-spam incidents.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 09:37 AM, Duane wrote:

If they're the only owner, they shouldn't lose access, but it's not something I want to test. ;>)

I have tested it, using a disposable group, and the last Owner is never kicked off, by this mechanism or otherwise. He can't even unsubscribe on purpose, or delete his own account, without first making someone else an Owner. At least that's the way it was when I did the testing (about a year ago).
?
Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:13 AM, Ilana DeBare wrote:

it sounds like I should do two things for spam prevention:

1. In my welcome message, ask everyone to add the groups.io email to their list of contacts.?
2. If messages go to their spam folder, tell them to unmark one or two as “not junk mail”.

Is that enough to make sure messages go to their inboxes and not the spam graveyard?

Ilana -- Providers are getting more and more aggressive with spam filtering, and the complete elimination of "false positives" is probably not an achievable goal.?While the above actions have been shown to help, my own experience suggest that there is nothing that can be done to "make sure" messages make it to people's inboxes. I can't even get my own provider to send desired emails to my inbox each and every time.

I do suggest you be proactive, and notify folks that this might happen and make clear what they need to do if it does. Having passed that along, hopefully they will simply click the link in the follow-up email to restore their access without a bunch of fuss.

Two things that are important to understand:
1. Many email providers do not employ the feedback loop mechanism, and a message inadvertently sent to spam by those providers will not trigger an unsubscription. It will simply be lost.
2. Subscribers do sometimes mark an incoming message as spam instead of attempting to figure out how to unsubscribe. In such cases, getting kicked off is not a "problem," but a feature.

I usually try to follow up with people who get booted, just to make sure they understand what's going on. About half the time, I discover that they did it intentionally, and the FBL mechanism worked exactly the way it was supposed to.

For those who are really interested, the entry found at??provides a remarkably good [for Wikipedia] overview of all this.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:21 AM, michael zaken wrote:

Our group the “Pennsylvania Council of the Blind” has finally gotten frustrated with Yahoogroups and we have decided to migrate over to Groups.io.

We have a number of groups in yahoogroups which include a large number of members.

Is there any simple instructions to do this migration.

Michael -- A 'quick start' guide for setting up a group can be found at?/helpcenter/gettingstarted. It's still in something of a draft form but is nonetheless fairly complete.?

Group members can be migrated to the new group according to the instructions found at?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/15860. The hardest part will probably be getting a list of existing group members. Unfortunately, there is no way to retrieve old content (files/photos/messages) ever since Yahoo's "getmydata" download function went offline back in February.?

Hope this helps,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

So I’m a new group owner just launching my first group and want to keep members’ incoming groups.io messages from being treated as spam!

it sounds like I should do two things for spam prevention:

1. In my welcome message, ask everyone to add the groups.io email to their list of contacts.?

2. If messages go to their spam folder, tell them to unmark one or two as “not junk mail”.

Is that enough to make sure messages go to their inboxes and not the spam graveyard?

ilana

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 08:28 AM, isis feral wrote:

I've not seen the message the removed member gets, so I don't know if that's already included.

Check out /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/5115

What if this happens to a moderator or owner of a group? Could an owner be removed without warning like this, and potentially lose access to their group?

If they're the only owner, they shouldn't lose access, but it's not something I want to test. ;>)? If you have another email address, you could make it an owner as back up, just in case.

More and more email providers are going to this setup.? It's rather ironic (to me) that Yahoo is one of the 'problem' services, but they don't seem to honor the FBL.? Part of the difficulty is that GIO is a "small fish" for email lists, so the email services don't mind blocking them for whatever reason.? The "big fish" like Yahoo and Google don't get blocked very often, if at all.

BTW, in case you missed it, the expiration for the link is now 7 days, related to some of the reasons you mentioned.

Duane
--
The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

I appreciate the technical/political explanations of why Groups.io is getting pushed into doing this. It's a seriously rotten deal, and I hope other providers will not follow suit.

I'm not exactly writing Groups.io off as a result. I'm certainly not moving my groups. But for the type of groups I tend to take care of, with many people with disabilities and limited technical skills, it's something that will likely make me go elsewhere next time I need to start one.

I did contact the member, and I hope we haven't lost him. I will probably also write a general note about it to all my groups, to give members a heads up.

I think adding a note to contact the group owner, with email address included, in the 'you have been removed' message, in case the resubscribe link has expired, would be helpful. I've not seen the message the removed member gets, so I don't know if that's already included.

What if this happens to a moderator or owner of a group? Could an owner be removed without warning like this, and potentially lose access to their group?

Thanks much for the insights, everyone.

Isis