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Re: Reply-To: in messages

Jim Higgins
 

Received from David M at 7/11/2018 11:14 PM UTC:

I overlooked nothing.

If subscribers to any group - announcement or discussion or whatever - expect replies to go only to the admin... or to the group... or to the poster being replied to... then I think it's improper to allow the admin or a subscriber to direct them elsewhere via embedded "Reply-to:" headers. Granted any party receiving email from the group is capable of redirecting it manually, but I think Groups.io shouldn't become a party to it.
Which is worse? Subscribers replying to the admin when they think they are replying to the person in the Reply-To:, or replying to the person in the Reply-To: when they are thinking they are replying to the admin? In either case, they should really be checking who the message is going to.

Both choices have their own drawbacks. No replies should go anywhere other than the default setting chosen by the admin of the group... unless the person replying chooses to change the To: address in the reply. In that latter case, Groups.io isn't involved in that decision.

Granted because of the world we live in they SHOULD REALLY be checking who any reply is going to - although that does require a modicum of savvy about the games people can play with email in order to know that checking is necessary. I think - via an admittedly strained analogy - that if someone SHOULD REALLY wear a bullet proof vest and doesn't, that doesn't mean others should be enabled to shoot at him.


In my case, no-one has ever wanted to reply to the admin, and I am talking about hundreds/thousands of messages here.

Or in the spirit of "they should really be checking who the message is going to" (your words from above) they should be paying attention to who the message says they should be replying to. And if the admin (whom I gather is the original sender) doesn't want replies, perhaps use a tag that sends replies with that tag to the bit bucket.


Anyone is currently capable of forwarding messages they receive to anyone they want to, and I believe that's how Groups.io should require them to handle the sort of message redirection you're asking for. That also (usually) provides a record of WHO caused the redirect. That's also a good thing.
Great theory for computer literate people. Not useful for people with poor computer skills.

Agreed, but also not needed unless there's a problem with MALICIOUS forwarding... which will be both rare and problematic enough that I'd guess the admin - who I assume is knowledgeable himself or can call on someone who is - would want the ability to determine the cause.


Expanding on my concern... when I left Y!, I left Y! behind. Groups.io is what it is... and what it is is better by far than Y! in more areas than reliability. Groups.io can be improved - the search facility currently being discussed is one example - but I'd rather not see some of the bad aspects of Y! brought to Groups.io just because some found them convenient on Y!.
Mark obviously does not agree. He has fixed the bug already.

David

Mark's service, Mark's rules. I respect that completely... but IMO one "bug" has been traded for another.

When I set up the groups I admin I selected settings to reply to group or reply to poster (the latter to me meaning an email address owned by the original poster) and those settings can now be overridden by individual posters. I call that a bug of the same magnitude as the one that was fixed.

Just saying... and having said, I'm done with it if you are.

Jim H
Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

David,

So what if the person who needs to see the replies is not a member of the group?

?As in Y!Groups, there is a group option to allow non-subscribers to post messages. In Groups.io all such messages are moderated as an anti-spam precaution. In Y!Groups such messages were moderated if the group was set to either Moderated or New Member Moderated, but not if the group was Unmoderated.

But that whole line of argument is now moot, happily so for you.? ;-)?

?Shal
?

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Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

David,
?
This appears to be a bug which has been fixed. In announcement groups, a Reply-To: on an incoming message will now be carried over to the message being sent out to group members.
?Yes. Just to confirm:
?
I'm uncertain, from what Mark said, if he actually limited it to Announcement Groups (as he described in the first message of that topic), or if it will now work in any group with Reply To set to Sender.

Shal
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Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

David,

What you are proposing is a discussion group afaics, but more
complicated. It would also be open to spamming I imagine.
The messages coming in through the integration can be moderated to prevent spamming; just as ordinary group messages can be.

For the other people it is simpler than a discussion group: they didn't have to join anything nor deal with extraneous messages (announcements about others). And it isn't that much more complicated for you - set up the integration and after that the group operates in a normal fashion.

The key distinction, over what you're doing, is that the others initiate the messages - which may be a bad thing if you prefer acting as curator and author of the announcements.
The issue is that the others are not specific people who do it regularly. They would not have a clue what this is about, and I would have to explain it to them in detail each time it needed to be done.

I do it as a convenience feature and to minimise the amount of forwarding I have to do. It works well. Anything else would be overkill and take more of my time.

Simple is often the best.

David
Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

> The reason for using Reply-To: is that most of the members just reply
to messages, even when the content of the message states to contact
someone else. Reply-To: takes it out of their hands.
Yes, you might be changing the reply default, however although I have my groups set up to "Reply to Sender", many people do what they have to in order to reply to the group instead.

That said, I agree that your best bet is still to have your group set to "Reply to Sender", and have the person who wants the replies send the message.
So what if the person who needs to see the replies is not a member of the group?

What is the protection that a third party Reply-To email address wants the replies?
Why would Groups.io want to enable such a SPAMMING prone tool?
I refer you to my earlier comments that this is an announcement group.

David
Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

I overlooked nothing.

If subscribers to any group - announcement or discussion or whatever - expect replies to go only to the admin... or to the group... or to the poster being replied to... then I think it's improper to allow the admin or a subscriber to direct them elsewhere via embedded "Reply-to:" headers. Granted any party receiving email from the group is capable of redirecting it manually, but I think Groups.io shouldn't become a party to it.
Which is worse? Subscribers replying to the admin when they think they are replying to the person in the Reply-To:, or replying to the person in the Reply-To: when they are thinking they are replying to the admin? In either case, they should really be checking who the message is going to.

In my case, no-one has ever wanted to reply to the admin, and I am talking about hundreds/thousands of messages here.

Anyone is currently capable of forwarding messages they receive to anyone they want to, and I believe that's how Groups.io should require them to handle the sort of message redirection you're asking for. That also (usually) provides a record of WHO caused the redirect. That's also a good thing.
Great theory for computer literate people. Not useful for people with poor computer skills.

Expanding on my concern... when I left Y!, I left Y! behind. Groups.io is what it is... and what it is is better by far than Y! in more areas than reliability. Groups.io can be improved - the search facility currently being discussed is one example - but I'd rather not see some of the bad aspects of Y! brought to Groups.io just because some found them convenient on Y!.
Mark obviously does not agree. He has fixed the bug already.

David
Re: Reply-To: in messages

 

I have a couple of announcement groups where I send out messages from other organisations. I want replies to go directly to the other organisation, not to me as the sender. I do not want to have to forward dozens of messages that could have gone directly to them.

In Yahoo Groups, I could put a Reply-To: header in the message I sent, and when people replied, it would go to that address.

In Groups.io, the Reply-To: seems to be stripped out of the message members get.
This appears to be a bug which has been fixed. In announcement groups, a Reply-To: on an incoming message will now be carried over to the message being sent out to group members.

David
Re: Yahoo Transfer - I there a way to confirm Group is in transfer queue?

 

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Jean,
I guess there's no way to know if GIO has rec'd my invite.

As Bruce said, there is:



If that grey box at the top of the In Process page says they have, they have. Otherwise you'll need to re-send. Wait at least a few hours since your latest send to give it time to register on the page.

One reason you might need to re-send is if you originally sent the invitation before having competed Step 1. Sending the invitation is Step 2.

Shal


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Re: Approvals Needed Doesn't Match Pending Approval List

 

Bob,

Approvals Needed shows 3, but only showing 2 in the Pending Approval
list.
Sounds familiar:
/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/22998701#9855

I don't know if that was resolved or not. Speculation is that a pending member merged accounts and that somehow left an inconsistency in the counting.

Shal


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Re: Approvals Needed Doesn't Match Pending Approval List

 

Sounds like a bug that should be reported to support.
Re: sub cant connect

 

Mark,

The member was invited by myself via an email from the group. When he clicks on the link his?browser comes back with network error and will not connect to the web page.
?
?Odd, the link works fine for me, having invited a spare address to my test group (Edge, Thunderbird, Win10). ?

The would-be member can simply reply to the invitation by email instead of clicking the link. Then go to the site later (not using that link), if and when he wants to access the group's web pages.

What are the requirements to be able to connect to Group io?

?A working web browser and internet connection?

I mean, I really don't know what to say. There aren't any specific requirements that would be any different than any other web site.

Have the would-be member try simply going to , rather than clicking through a link in email. Have him type it in to iCab's address bar by hand. That is:
/

Have him report what happens.

If he gets the Groups.io home page he should then be able to use the log in page to log in to the site and access your group's pages - if he's already accepted the invitation by email reply. Otherwise he can use the Sign Up page to create his account before accepting the invitation.

If he still gets an error even trying to access the site's home page then I think he needs to have words with iCab and/or his internet service provider and/or any internet security suite software he may have in his system.

Shal


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Re: DKIM causing bounces

 

Awesome!? Test email got through with not white list.? :-)

Thanks again!? And thank you Mark for the quick fix.??
Re: DKIM causing bounces

 

Jeff
?,


Thanks everyone for the help!? I agree that Zoho should be a bit more lenient on time being off by less than a minute.? I have engaged them again on this and await their response.

?Mark reports that it should be fixed now.

He's a bit mystified ?as to why ntpd wasn't running on a couple of machines, even though they were set up exactly the same as the others (where it was). He's updated the setup scripts to (hopefully) prevent this from happening again.

Shal


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Approvals Needed Doesn't Match Pending Approval List

 

Approvals Needed shows 3, but only showing 2 in the Pending Approval list.
Re: Yahoo Transfer - I there a way to confirm Group is in transfer queue?

 

haha had to read that a couple times.
I'm apparently still at Step 1.
Two buttons and checkboxes are active.
I guess there's no way to know if GIO has rec'd my invite.?It's been about 48 hours.
Thanks for the insight..
Re: sub cant connect

mark sherrey
 

Hi Shai

The member was invited by myself via an email from the group. When he clicks on the link his?browser comes back with network error and will not connect to the web page.

What are the requirements to be able to connect to Group io?

With thanks
Mark.

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 5:29 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
mark
?,


One of?my group cannot?join, he gets "network error" in his browser.

?That's very peculiar. I'll guess that it is either som?ething trivial (the member is putting an incorrect URL into iCab) or something very deeply wrong? with his network stack. More likely the former.

To have any hope of guessing what the problem is we'd need more information, such as what he means by "cannot join". Does this mean that he can't access Groups.io at all (but the rest of the web is fine)? Or does this mean that he gets this error at some point while attempting to use the Groups.io sign-up page? Or does it mean something else?

A screen-shot of the error might be a good place to start, but step-by-step info on what the member is trying to do will still be helpful.

?Shal?


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Re: sub cant connect

 

mark
?,


One of?my group cannot?join, he gets "network error" in his browser.

?That's very peculiar. I'll guess that it is either som?ething trivial (the member is putting an incorrect URL into iCab) or something very deeply wrong? with his network stack. More likely the former.

To have any hope of guessing what the problem is we'd need more information, such as what he means by "cannot join". Does this mean that he can't access Groups.io at all (but the rest of the web is fine)? Or does this mean that he gets this error at some point while attempting to use the Groups.io sign-up page? Or does it mean something else?

A screen-shot of the error might be a good place to start, but step-by-step info on what the member is trying to do will still be helpful.

?Shal?


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RSVP

 

Hi.

Does anyone have any experience of using the feature to request/track RSVPs to events that is included in the (paid) Premium and Enterprise plans??

There's a (very) small amount of information about it at the foot of this page?/static/pricing?and a longer discussion of how the beta version worked back in 2016 here??but I'd like to know more about how it works and how it looks today.

If anyone is setting up an event with RSVP in the near future, I'd be grateful for information about how it works, perhaps with screenshots.

Our association is currently on the free Basic plan. We've been using Punchbowl
Re: Members Unable to Post to Group

 

On 4 Jul 2018 at 19:45, Glenn Glazer wrote:


To quibble, though, that's a pun on "file".? The EOF at the end of a Hollerith
deck was to indicate that the program ended there, not a file that the program
was reading.? That is, the punch card EOF is code EOF, the C style EOF is data.
To clarify the situation I was talking about, on that computer (English
Electric DEUCE) the "EOF" marker was a single hole anywhere in one particular
column of the card (I don't remember for sure if it was column 1 or column 80).
The machine read rows of binary from the card (progams or data) and it stopped
reading as soon as that hole was encountered, so rows further down the card
were ignored. This was unlike other punched card machinery, which normally read
cards as columns of decimal/alpha, one digit per column. Input data in that
format (which was normal) had to be converted on the fly by the program as the
cards were read.

PS Sorry this is such a late reply - had no internet connection since last
Thursday evening, when I drafted the above. Service went off before I could
send it.

Jim

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Re: DKIM causing bounces

 

Thanks everyone for the help!? I agree that Zoho should be a bit more lenient on time being off by less than a minute.? I have engaged them again on this and await their response.
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