Lindsley, when you say that adding muffins "is working" , do you mean your husband is gaining weight? Kind regards,
Dana
From: "Lindsley Silagi lindsley.silagi@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
To: FlaxSeedOil2@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: diet
?
Jean, ? ? ?This is how I make the mini muffins. While I do not know if Dr. Budwig would have sanctioned these made these so that I could get more buckwheat into my husband's diet. Buckwheat is?one of the best sources of d-chiro inositol which has been found to reverse the cachexia?process.? As I was concerned about the fact fact that my husband had lost ?so much weight, I started being these to get more buckwheat into his system. It is working!?
Mini- Apple Cranberry Buckwheat Muffins
1/2 cup cooked buckwheat cereal ?3/4 cup buckwheat flour ?3/4 cup applesauce, no sugar ? ?1 banana, mashed ?1/4 cup organic walnuts ?1/2 cup cranberries ?1/4 cup sesame seed
? ?I mixed these together, which resulted in a wet but not sticky mixture. Then I put them in my mini muffin tray and set them in a cool oven 350 for 25 minutes. ? ? ? They are a hit at our house. Please note... no egg, no baking powder, no baking soda, no salt, no oil. The applesauce provides enough liquid and the seeds/nuts provide enough "oil".
Lindsley
|
Re: Update - Prostate cancer
That's great Joe, thanks for the info.? I'm 67, diagnosed about 12 years ago, gleason 6. PSA just went to 30 so I figure I need to get focused .
I need to find a urologist I like.? They are all so surgery focused.
Thanks again,
~Bob
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2]
To: FlaxSeedOil2
Sent: Wed, Sep 27, 2017 5:01 am
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
?
Hi Bob,?
We don't do quite the whole protocol as recommended in this group. WE don't do the sauerkraut juice. We still eat organic fish or chicken 5 dinners out of 7. The rest of our meals are vegetarian, however, and organic to the extent possible, and we never eat beef, pork, lamb, etc.
I supplement Budwig with Modified Citrus Pectin (MCP), Turmeric with Piperine, and Vitamin D3.
The dosages of bicalutamide and dutasteride were not recommended by my urologist, but were determined by a research study I found and then proposed to my urologist. Here's the study:?
The urologist wanted to do Lupron combined with finasteride, but I would not accept the likely side effects of this combination, and insisted on the therapy I preferred. I kept my plans to use the Budwig diet to myself, since I didn't think the urologist would appreciate that choice. ?It's now been 5 years since my diagnosis with non-metastatic Gleason 8 disease, and my PSA is lower than it has ever been since I first began testing it in 2008.
I'm 78 now and am looking forward to eventually being cancer-free.
Best,
Joe
On September 26, 2017 at 7:51 PM " bobsellie@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
Hi Joe,
I just tuned in so thanks for the great report.? I also have a couple of questions.? I've spiked to 30 and I'm looking for some thing to focus on.
*Did you do the entire Budwig protocol, or just the fo/cc concoction with possibly your own additives>
*On the 2 prescription drugs, did you do your own dosing or follow the Drs. recommended dose?
Thanks,
Bob
N.C.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2] < FlaxSeedOil2@...>
To: FlaxSeedOil2 < FlaxSeedOil2@...>
Sent: Tue, Sep 26, 2017 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
?
?
Thank You, Rod.
Good luck to you too.
This is a marathon; not a sprint!
Joe
On September 26, 2017 at 2:22 PM "'Rod' holmgren@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
You've had great progress, Joe.? I wish you continued success.
?
Rod in MN USA
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
?
?
Hi everyone,
Last time I updated here was on June 16, 2017. Since then I've had further progress using my combined therapy of Budwig, bicalutamide, and dutasteride. Here is my updated tracking of PSA test results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
7/03/17 -- 2.15
8/02/17 -- ?1.84
9/06/17 -- ?1.75
So, you can see that the decline in my PSA is decelerating. From my reading, I've gotten the notion that PSA under bicalutamide hormonal therapy stabilizes around 2.00. So, I am a bit below that, but not enough to suggest that the Budwig protocol has had additional impact beyond the expected.
However, even though the decline recently has slowed it hasn't stopped, but was at 5% last time around. So, the decline may continue or more importantly, the Budwig effect could manifest itself in a long term stabilization over a few years. I'll see.
Whether or not that happens, I think it likely that my PSA may begin to rise again since experiments with bicalutamide indicate that after an undetermined period of time the hormonal therapy actually begins to work with the cancer. At that point, I'll face a decision about what to do.
My thinking now is that I will go with the Budwig protocol supplemented by turmeric, MCP, and the White Mushroom Powder Julian was kind enough to tell us about recently. That may be effective because the combined therapy I'm using now may actually be hindering the favorable impact of Budwig.
I'll make that move quickly once I'm sure the PSA is no longer stable, so that I have lots of time to evaluate Budwig plus alone. with no allopathic remedies clouding the issue of effectiveness.
So that's it. A good update with optimism for the future and a backup plan if the PSA starts rising again. In addition, I'll have another MRI in the not too distant future, to check out if there's any visible cancer either in or outside the prostate, since I think it is just possible that my cancer may already have been cured and that the remaining PSA level above undetectable is due to BPH and not to prostate cancer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this update? I would greatly value your ideas.
Best to all,
Joe Firestone
On June 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM Joe Firestone <eisai@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No one recommended the therapy. I picked it up from this article:
Casodex or bicalutamide is a well-known hormonal therapy for prostate cancer. It blocks the testosterone receptors on cells, but not the testosterone. The likelihood of many side effects is much less from Casodex than from Lupron Depot the favorite recommendation Doctors here in the US. I've read somewhere that Casodex is favored in Europe. Here's a very good wikipedia article on it (note the citations in it):
Casodex alone however, is not sufficient to block testosterone generated by the adrenal gland, so if you take it alone, you'll still be feeding the cancer. Dustasteride is a good supplement to Casodex for blocking testerone generated from the adrenal gland, because, unlike finasteride, another preferred therapy, it is more effective in doing that. Here's wikipedia on the comparison ;
"Dutasteride belongs to a class of drugs called , which block the action of the that convert testosterone into DHT. It is an of all three of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð, , , and . This is in contrast to finasteride, which is similarly an irreversible inhibitor of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð but only inhibits the type II and III . As a result of this difference, dutasteride is able to achieve a reduction in circulating DHT levels of as much as 98%, whereas finasteride is only able to achieve a reduction of 65 to 70%. In spite of the differential reduction in circulating DHT levels, the two drugs decrease levels of DHT to a similar extent of approximately 85 to 90% in the ,where the type II isoform of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð predominates."
More generally, there is a lot of research on dustasteride as you'll see from the wikipedia reference. It's normally prescribed for BPH.
Anyway, I had fight to get the combination of the two drugs prescribed for me. I did not tell my doctors that I would be doing Budwig ?at the same time, but my expectation was and still is that Budwig would shield me somewhat from the likely severity of some of the side effects.?
The Casodex/Dustasteride/Budwig therapy is my way of moving down the road toward an eventual cure for the cancer. I expect Casodex/Dustateride to fail me before too long, and see Budwig as more long-term treatment. I hope all three can get me down the road another 4 - 5 years or for good in the case of Budwig.
If it's not for good, then I have in mind various focal ablation techniques more or less on the horizon that may be available from Kaiser over the next 4-5 years. Here's a quote from a memo I wrote to my Kaiser doctors on this
We are living in a period of rapid development of other medical techniques and therapies that will have minimal side effects and that are likely to be available to Kaiser patients during the next few years. These include :
?
¡°Focal ablation of prostate cancer is an evolving treatment strategy that destroys a predefined region (or target) of the prostate that harbors the clinically significant cancer. A number of energy sources have been investigated for focal ablation of the prostate, including cryotherapy,13 high-intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU),14 photodynamic therapy,15 and laser ablation.16¡±
?
In addition, there is photodynamic therapy using activating light sensitive drugs previously injected.
So, that's it. I hope it's of interest to you and others. But I can't recommend it, of course, because it's just a personal strategy for coping with PC and living as long as I can.
Joe
On June 16, 2017 at 9:27 AM "Tom Henry tomhenry332@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
Congratulation Joe!
Few questions:
????????"Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to ????????????also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that ????????????I was still non-metastatic."
1. Who recommended you to take the 2 drugs:?bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart) ?
2. How do you know they are effective for prostate cancer? Any research studies on these 2 drugs?
Please advise. Thank you.
Tom
?
?
Hello Sandra and Everyone,
Perhaps it's time for update. As I've said in previous emails my wife, Bonnie, and I began the Budwig diet on February 15 of this year. Bonnie is a breast cancer survivor, who received surgery and chemo therapy and has now been clear for roughly four years. She decided to begin Budwig for preventive reasons and to make things easier for me.
I received a diagnosis of non-metastatic Gleason 8 prostate cancer just short of 5 years ago and decided then to continue taking finasteride for BPH and using supplements and dietary changes to hold back my cancer. Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that I was still non-metastatic.
To get prescriptions for the two?drugs, I had to fight with my Kaiser Doctors, who want to use Lupron depot in cases like mine. In the end however, I persuaded them to go along with my choices by citing research on both positive results and differences in side effects and just insisting that I would not take Lupron. I have not shared my choice to pursue Budwig, as well as my pharmaceutical choices with my doctors.
I'm tracking the results of my combined Budwig/pharma treatment with monthly PSA tests. Here are my results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
You can see that my PSA has been falling substantially, but that the rate of deceleration in decline of the PSA has been slowing as time passes. At first, I thought that the substantial decline from February 3, to March 3, must have been at least partly due to Budwig, but I now think it was too early for Budwig to have been due to an immediate impact of bicalutamide, because its impact is said to be greatest at the start and I think a decline of 1/3 in the PSA is probably possible after 2 days of taking that drug, considering that the next decline was one of about 80 % over 31 days.
One of the differences between Lupron therapy and bicalutamide therapy is that Lupron will generally reduce PSA to a fraction of 1, perhaps as low as 0.1, whereas, bicalutamide will only lower it to perhaps 2 or so, but rarely lower. So, thus far, I think my results fit the bicalutamide pattern and that I can't distinguish, though neither can I rule out, a definite impact from the Budwig protocol.
Looking at the future however, I think that if my PSA results continue to fall, and as time passes they keep ?declining, then I will be able to say that likely Budwig worked, because my PSA results were incompatible with knowledge about how bicalutamide works.
Apart, from the above, I also want to say that Bonnie and I intend to continue following Budwig for good. We've adapted to the FO/CC well and we believe our health is better in general since we've started the diet. So, at this point we're very happy with Budwig and would recommend it to others.
I also want to say that I think this a wonderful yahoo group, and I greatly appreciate the very good information, encouragement and emotional support created here every day. So, thanks to everyone for your good will and contributions and special thanks to Sandra Olson, Denise Newkirk, and Dana Mills, for leading the way in setting the tone and being so generous in their sharing so much with the group.
Warm Feelings and Great Hopes for All of Us,
Joe Firestone
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Hi Lindsley,
Great recipe, thank you. I will definitely try it out. Did you know that if the recipe called for eggs, flaxseeds could replace them?
Regards, Dana
From: "Lindsley Silagi lindsley.silagi@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
To: FlaxSeedOil2@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Re: diet
?
Jean, ? ? ?This is how I make the mini muffins. While I do not know if Dr. Budwig would have sanctioned these made these so that I could get more buckwheat into my husband's diet. Buckwheat is?one of the best sources of d-chiro inositol which has been found to reverse the cachexia?process.? As I was concerned about the fact fact that my husband had lost ?so much weight, I started being these to get more buckwheat into his system. It is working!?
Mini- Apple Cranberry Buckwheat Muffins
1/2 cup cooked buckwheat cereal ?3/4 cup buckwheat flour ?3/4 cup applesauce, no sugar ? ?1 banana, mashed ?1/4 cup organic walnuts ?1/2 cup cranberries ?1/4 cup sesame seed
? ?I mixed these together, which resulted in a wet but not sticky mixture. Then I put them in my mini muffin tray and set them in a cool oven 350 for 25 minutes. ? ? ? They are a hit at our house. Please note... no egg, no baking powder, no baking soda, no salt, no oil. The applesauce provides enough liquid and the seeds/nuts provide enough "oil".
Lindsley
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, 5:18 AM, Rahel Warshaw-Dadon joy.forward@... [FlaxSeedOil2] wrote:
?
Shalom Jean, The reason for taking apricot kernels is to ingest vitamin B17, sometimes called Laetrile. known to cause quickly growing cells, like cancer cells, to die. ?(Note that for this reason, it would NOT be advised to give apricot kernels in quantity to a pregnant woman!) ?In fact, there is B17 in flax seeds, and in quite a number of other foods - even in apple seeds, which is why I like to eat the seeds as well as the apples.
The Budwig Protocol does not include apricot seeds, probably because flax seeds are also a source of this vitamin (and perhaps because Dr. Budwig created this diet before the research on Laetrile was widely known).? However, they are a whole food, and are not forbidden on this diet.? If you are to undergo colon surgery, do as Dana has suggested, and be wary of how much fiber you will consume (of course, apricot seeds have some fiber...).? If you will have any other form of surgery, I believe that it will be fine to continue consuming the apricot seeds.
wishing you a successful surgery and easy healing,
Rahel Jerusalem
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Shalom Jean, The reason for taking apricot kernels is to ingest vitamin B17, sometimes called Laetrile. known to cause quickly growing cells, like cancer cells, to die. ?(Note that for this reason, it would NOT be advised to give apricot kernels in quantity to a pregnant woman!) ?In fact, there is B17 in flax seeds, and in quite a number of other foods - even in apple seeds, which is why I like to eat the seeds as well as the apples.
The Budwig Protocol does not include apricot seeds, probably because flax seeds are also a source of this vitamin (and perhaps because Dr. Budwig created this diet before the research on Laetrile was widely known).? However, they are a whole food, and are not forbidden on this diet.? If you are to undergo colon surgery, do as Dana has suggested, and be wary of how much fiber you will consume (of course, apricot seeds have some fiber...).? If you will have any other form of surgery, I believe that it will be fine to continue consuming the apricot seeds.
wishing you a successful surgery and easy healing,
Rahel Jerusalem
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 8:22 PM, Jean Kingston jeankingston74@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
Can I continue with the Apricot kernels before the surgery? I take abt. 20 per day?
Jean Canada
?
?
As I understand you should discontinue FOCC about a
week before surgery.
?
Rod in MN, USA
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 5:35
AM
Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Budwig diet and
surgery
?
I just watched a you tube video where Gene Wei, DOM,AP said you should not
do BP close to having surgery due to the blood thinning properties of Flax
Oil. Is this true and how soon should I stop to BP. My surgery is scheduled 1
week from today.
Jean
Canada
|
Re: Update - Prostate cancer
Hi Bob,?
We don't do quite the whole protocol as recommended in this group. WE don't do the sauerkraut juice. We still eat organic fish or chicken 5 dinners out of 7. The rest of our meals are vegetarian, however, and organic to the extent possible, and we never eat beef, pork, lamb, etc.
I supplement Budwig with Modified Citrus Pectin (MCP), Turmeric with Piperine, and Vitamin D3.
The dosages of bicalutamide and dutasteride were not recommended by my urologist, but were determined by a research study I found and then proposed to my urologist. Here's the study:?
The urologist wanted to do Lupron combined with finasteride, but I would not accept the likely side effects of this combination, and insisted on the therapy I preferred. I kept my plans to use the Budwig diet to myself, since I didn't think the urologist would appreciate that choice. ?It's now been 5 years since my diagnosis with non-metastatic Gleason 8 disease, and my PSA is lower than it has ever been since I first began testing it in 2008.
I'm 78 now and am looking forward to eventually being cancer-free.
Best,
Joe
On September 26, 2017 at 7:51 PM "bobsellie@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ? Hi Joe, I just tuned in so thanks for the great report.? I also have a couple of questions.? I've spiked to 30 and I'm looking for some thing to focus on. *Did you do the entire Budwig protocol, or just the fo/cc concoction with possibly your own additives> *On the 2 prescription drugs, did you do your own dosing or follow the Drs. recommended dose? Thanks,
Bob N.C. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> To: FlaxSeedOil2 <FlaxSeedOil2@...> Sent: Tue, Sep 26, 2017 7:13 pm Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer ? ?
Thank You, Rod.
Good luck to you too.
This is a marathon; not a sprint!
Joe On September 26, 2017 at 2:22 PM "'Rod' holmgren@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ? ? You've had great progress, Joe.? I wish you continued success. ? Rod in MN USA ? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
??
Hi everyone,
Last time I updated here was on June 16, 2017. Since then I've had further progress using my combined therapy of Budwig, bicalutamide, and dutasteride. Here is my updated tracking of PSA test results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96 3/3/17 -- 17.72 4/03/17 -- 4.67 5/03/17 -- 3.11 6/05/17 -- 2.60 7/03/17 -- 2.15 8/02/17 -- ?1.84 9/06/17 -- ?1.75
So, you can see that the decline in my PSA is decelerating. From my reading, I've gotten the notion that PSA under bicalutamide hormonal therapy stabilizes around 2.00. So, I am a bit below that, but not enough to suggest that the Budwig protocol has had additional impact beyond the expected.
However, even though the decline recently has slowed it hasn't stopped, but was at 5% last time around. So, the decline may continue or more importantly, the Budwig effect could manifest itself in a long term stabilization over a few years. I'll see.
Whether or not that happens, I think it likely that my PSA may begin to rise again since experiments with bicalutamide indicate that after an undetermined period of time the hormonal therapy actually begins to work with the cancer. At that point, I'll face a decision about what to do.
My thinking now is that I will go with the Budwig protocol supplemented by turmeric, MCP, and the White Mushroom Powder Julian was kind enough to tell us about recently. That may be effective because the combined therapy I'm using now may actually be hindering the favorable impact of Budwig.
I'll make that move quickly once I'm sure the PSA is no longer stable, so that I have lots of time to evaluate Budwig plus alone. with no allopathic remedies clouding the issue of effectiveness.
So that's it. A good update with optimism for the future and a backup plan if the PSA starts rising again. In addition, I'll have another MRI in the not too distant future, to check out if there's any visible cancer either in or outside the prostate, since I think it is just possible that my cancer may already have been cured and that the remaining PSA level above undetectable is due to BPH and not to prostate cancer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this update? I would greatly value your ideas.
Best to all,
Joe Firestone On June 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM Joe Firestone <eisai@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No one recommended the therapy. I picked it up from this article:
Casodex or bicalutamide is a well-known hormonal therapy for prostate cancer. It blocks the testosterone receptors on cells, but not the testosterone. The likelihood of many side effects is much less from Casodex than from Lupron Depot the favorite recommendation Doctors here in the US. I've read somewhere that Casodex is favored in Europe. Here's a very good wikipedia article on it (note the citations in it):
Casodex alone however, is not sufficient to block testosterone generated by the adrenal gland, so if you take it alone, you'll still be feeding the cancer. Dustasteride is a good supplement to Casodex for blocking testerone generated from the adrenal gland, because, unlike finasteride, another preferred therapy, it is more effective in doing that. Here's wikipedia on the comparison ;
"Dutasteride belongs to a class of drugs called , which block the action of the that convert testosterone into DHT. It is an of all three of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð, , , and . This is in contrast to finasteride, which is similarly an irreversible inhibitor of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð but only inhibits the type II and III . As a result of this difference, dutasteride is able to achieve a reduction in circulating DHT levels of as much as 98%, whereas finasteride is only able to achieve a reduction of 65 to 70%. In spite of the differential reduction in circulating DHT levels, the two drugs decrease levels of DHT to a similar extent of approximately 85 to 90% in the ,where the type II isoform of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð predominates."
More generally, there is a lot of research on dustasteride as you'll see from the wikipedia reference. It's normally prescribed for BPH.
Anyway, I had fight to get the combination of the two drugs prescribed for me. I did not tell my doctors that I would be doing Budwig ?at the same time, but my expectation was and still is that Budwig would shield me somewhat from the likely severity of some of the side effects.?
The Casodex/Dustasteride/Budwig therapy is my way of moving down the road toward an eventual cure for the cancer. I expect Casodex/Dustateride to fail me before too long, and see Budwig as more long-term treatment. I hope all three can get me down the road another 4 - 5 years or for good in the case of Budwig. If it's not for good, then I have in mind various focal ablation techniques more or less on the horizon that may be available from Kaiser over the next 4-5 years. Here's a quote from a memo I wrote to my Kaiser doctors on this
We are living in a period of rapid development of other medical techniques and therapies that will have minimal side effects and that are likely to be available to Kaiser patients during the next few years. These include : ? ¡°Focal ablation of prostate cancer is an evolving treatment strategy that destroys a predefined region (or target) of the prostate that harbors the clinically significant cancer. A number of energy sources have been investigated for focal ablation of the prostate, including cryotherapy,13 high-intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU),14 photodynamic therapy,15 and laser ablation.16¡± ? In addition, there is photodynamic therapy using activating light sensitive drugs previously injected.
So, that's it. I hope it's of interest to you and others. But I can't recommend it, of course, because it's just a personal strategy for coping with PC and living as long as I can.
Joe
On June 16, 2017 at 9:27 AM "Tom Henry tomhenry332@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ?
?
Congratulation Joe!
Few questions:
????????"Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to ????????????also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that ????????????I was still non-metastatic."
1. Who recommended you to take the 2 drugs:?bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart) ?
2. How do you know they are effective for prostate cancer? Any research studies on these 2 drugs?
Please advise. Thank you.
Tom
?
?
Hello Sandra and Everyone,
Perhaps it's time for update. As I've said in previous emails my wife, Bonnie, and I began the Budwig diet on February 15 of this year. Bonnie is a breast cancer survivor, who received surgery and chemo therapy and has now been clear for roughly four years. She decided to begin Budwig for preventive reasons and to make things easier for me.
I received a diagnosis of non-metastatic Gleason 8 prostate cancer just short of 5 years ago and decided then to continue taking finasteride for BPH and using supplements and dietary changes to hold back my cancer. Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that I was still non-metastatic.
To get prescriptions for the two?drugs, I had to fight with my Kaiser Doctors, who want to use Lupron depot in cases like mine. In the end however, I persuaded them to go along with my choices by citing research on both positive results and differences in side effects and just insisting that I would not take Lupron. I have not shared my choice to pursue Budwig, as well as my pharmaceutical choices with my doctors.
I'm tracking the results of my combined Budwig/pharma treatment with monthly PSA tests. Here are my results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96 3/3/17 -- 17.72 4/03/17 -- 4.67 5/03/17 -- 3.11 6/05/17 -- 2.60
You can see that my PSA has been falling substantially, but that the rate of deceleration in decline of the PSA has been slowing as time passes. At first, I thought that the substantial decline from February 3, to March 3, must have been at least partly due to Budwig, but I now think it was too early for Budwig to have been due to an immediate impact of bicalutamide, because its impact is said to be greatest at the start and I think a decline of 1/3 in the PSA is probably possible after 2 days of taking that drug, considering that the next decline was one of about 80 % over 31 days.
One of the differences between Lupron therapy and bicalutamide therapy is that Lupron will generally reduce PSA to a fraction of 1, perhaps as low as 0.1, whereas, bicalutamide will only lower it to perhaps 2 or so, but rarely lower. So, thus far, I think my results fit the bicalutamide pattern and that I can't distinguish, though neither can I rule out, a definite impact from the Budwig protocol.
Looking at the future however, I think that if my PSA results continue to fall, and as time passes they keep ?declining, then I will be able to say that likely Budwig worked, because my PSA results were incompatible with knowledge about how bicalutamide works.
Apart, from the above, I also want to say that Bonnie and I intend to continue following Budwig for good. We've adapted to the FO/CC well and we believe our health is better in general since we've started the diet. So, at this point we're very happy with Budwig and would recommend it to others.
I also want to say that I think this a wonderful yahoo group, and I greatly appreciate the very good information, encouragement and emotional support created here every day. So, thanks to everyone for your good will and contributions and special thanks to Sandra Olson, Denise Newkirk, and Dana Mills, for leading the way in setting the tone and being so generous in their sharing so much with the group.
Warm Feelings and Great Hopes for All of Us,
Joe Firestone
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Good luck on the surgery Frank
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I just watched a you tube video where Gene Wei, DOM,AP said you should not do BP close to having surgery due to the blood thinning properties of Flax Oil. Is this true and how soon should I stop to BP. My surgery is scheduled 1 week from today.
Jean
Canada
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Lindsley If ?you would share some ?recipes that would be wonderful I¡¯d really appreciate i Thank You Frank
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Lindsley, can you share your muffin recipe. Before cancer, I loved to bake and miss this more than anything.
Jean
Canada On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, 3:39 PM, Lindsley Silagi?lindsley.silagi@...?[FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ?
Hi Frank, ? ? At first I was thinking this too. Pretty much the same over and over. Then I realized that using the basics you can be creative and prepare delicious meals. It takes some trail and error. However stick with it as this is the diet for the long haul to greater health and wellness. I am making small quantities of soups- lentil, potato, pumpkin, carrot; and wild rice with black beans; buckwheat salad; quinoa salad; tabouli salad with quinoa; buckwheat muffins without egg or leavening. ? ? Maybe there are others on this list who want to share recipes that they have come up with using Joanna's recommended foods. ? ? I would love to hear from others about how they are incorporating buckwheat into the daily plan. I make it as a cereal, as a salad, and as muffins.?
? ? Lindsley
|
Jean, ? ? ?This is how I make the mini muffins. While I do not know if Dr. Budwig would have sanctioned these made these so that I could get more buckwheat into my husband's diet. Buckwheat is?one of the best sources of d-chiro inositol which has been found to reverse the cachexia?process.? As I was concerned about the fact fact that my husband had lost ?so much weight, I started being these to get more buckwheat into his system. It is working!?
Mini- Apple Cranberry Buckwheat Muffins
1/2 cup cooked buckwheat cereal ?3/4 cup buckwheat flour ?3/4 cup applesauce, no sugar ? ?1 banana, mashed ?1/4 cup organic walnuts ?1/2 cup cranberries ?1/4 cup sesame seed
? ?I mixed these together, which resulted in a wet but not sticky mixture. Then I put them in my mini muffin tray and set them in a cool oven 350 for 25 minutes. ? ? ? They are a hit at our house. Please note... no egg, no baking powder, no baking soda, no salt, no oil. The applesauce provides enough liquid and the seeds/nuts provide enough "oil".
Lindsley
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Jean Kingston jeankingston74@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
Lindsley, can you share your muffin recipe. Before cancer, I loved to bake and miss this more than anything.
Jean
Canada
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, 3:39 PM, Lindsley Silagi lindsley.silagi@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
Hi Frank, ? ? At first I was thinking this too. Pretty much the same over and over. Then I realized that using the basics you can be creative and prepare delicious meals. It takes some trail and error. However stick with it as this is the diet for the long haul to greater health and wellness. I am making small quantities of soups- lentil, potato, pumpkin, carrot; and wild rice with black beans; buckwheat salad; quinoa salad; tabouli salad with quinoa; buckwheat muffins without egg or leavening. ? ? Maybe there are others on this list who want to share recipes that they have come up with using Joanna's recommended foods. ? ? I would love to hear from others about how they are incorporating buckwheat into the daily plan. I make it as a cereal, as a salad, and as muffins.?
? ? Lindsley
|
Re: Update - Prostate cancer
Hi Joe,
I just tuned in so thanks for the great report.? I also have a couple of questions.? I've spiked to 30 and I'm looking for some thing to focus on.
*Did you do the entire Budwig protocol, or just the fo/cc concoction with possibly your own additives>
*On the 2 prescription drugs, did you do your own dosing or follow the Drs. recommended dose?
Thanks,
Bob
N.C.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2]
To: FlaxSeedOil2
Sent: Tue, Sep 26, 2017 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
?
Thank You, Rod.
Good luck to you too.
This is a marathon; not a sprint!
Joe
On September 26, 2017 at 2:22 PM "'Rod' holmgren@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
You've had great progress, Joe.? I wish you continued success.
?
Rod in MN USA
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
?
?
Hi everyone,
Last time I updated here was on June 16, 2017. Since then I've had further progress using my combined therapy of Budwig, bicalutamide, and dutasteride. Here is my updated tracking of PSA test results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
7/03/17 -- 2.15
8/02/17 -- ?1.84
9/06/17 -- ?1.75
So, you can see that the decline in my PSA is decelerating. From my reading, I've gotten the notion that PSA under bicalutamide hormonal therapy stabilizes around 2.00. So, I am a bit below that, but not enough to suggest that the Budwig protocol has had additional impact beyond the expected.
However, even though the decline recently has slowed it hasn't stopped, but was at 5% last time around. So, the decline may continue or more importantly, the Budwig effect could manifest itself in a long term stabilization over a few years. I'll see.
Whether or not that happens, I think it likely that my PSA may begin to rise again since experiments with bicalutamide indicate that after an undetermined period of time the hormonal therapy actually begins to work with the cancer. At that point, I'll face a decision about what to do.
My thinking now is that I will go with the Budwig protocol supplemented by turmeric, MCP, and the White Mushroom Powder Julian was kind enough to tell us about recently. That may be effective because the combined therapy I'm using now may actually be hindering the favorable impact of Budwig.
I'll make that move quickly once I'm sure the PSA is no longer stable, so that I have lots of time to evaluate Budwig plus alone. with no allopathic remedies clouding the issue of effectiveness.
So that's it. A good update with optimism for the future and a backup plan if the PSA starts rising again. In addition, I'll have another MRI in the not too distant future, to check out if there's any visible cancer either in or outside the prostate, since I think it is just possible that my cancer may already have been cured and that the remaining PSA level above undetectable is due to BPH and not to prostate cancer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this update? I would greatly value your ideas.
Best to all,
Joe Firestone
On June 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM Joe Firestone <eisai@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No one recommended the therapy. I picked it up from this article:
Casodex or bicalutamide is a well-known hormonal therapy for prostate cancer. It blocks the testosterone receptors on cells, but not the testosterone. The likelihood of many side effects is much less from Casodex than from Lupron Depot the favorite recommendation Doctors here in the US. I've read somewhere that Casodex is favored in Europe. Here's a very good wikipedia article on it (note the citations in it):
Casodex alone however, is not sufficient to block testosterone generated by the adrenal gland, so if you take it alone, you'll still be feeding the cancer. Dustasteride is a good supplement to Casodex for blocking testerone generated from the adrenal gland, because, unlike finasteride, another preferred therapy, it is more effective in doing that. Here's wikipedia on the comparison ;
"Dutasteride belongs to a class of drugs called , which block the action of the that convert testosterone into DHT. It is an of all three of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð, , , and . This is in contrast to finasteride, which is similarly an irreversible inhibitor of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð but only inhibits the type II and III . As a result of this difference, dutasteride is able to achieve a reduction in circulating DHT levels of as much as 98%, whereas finasteride is only able to achieve a reduction of 65 to 70%. In spite of the differential reduction in circulating DHT levels, the two drugs decrease levels of DHT to a similar extent of approximately 85 to 90% in the ,where the type II isoform of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð predominates."
More generally, there is a lot of research on dustasteride as you'll see from the wikipedia reference. It's normally prescribed for BPH.
Anyway, I had fight to get the combination of the two drugs prescribed for me. I did not tell my doctors that I would be doing Budwig ?at the same time, but my expectation was and still is that Budwig would shield me somewhat from the likely severity of some of the side effects.?
The Casodex/Dustasteride/Budwig therapy is my way of moving down the road toward an eventual cure for the cancer. I expect Casodex/Dustateride to fail me before too long, and see Budwig as more long-term treatment. I hope all three can get me down the road another 4 - 5 years or for good in the case of Budwig.
If it's not for good, then I have in mind various focal ablation techniques more or less on the horizon that may be available from Kaiser over the next 4-5 years. Here's a quote from a memo I wrote to my Kaiser doctors on this
We are living in a period of rapid development of other medical techniques and therapies that will have minimal side effects and that are likely to be available to Kaiser patients during the next few years. These include :
?
¡°Focal ablation of prostate cancer is an evolving treatment strategy that destroys a predefined region (or target) of the prostate that harbors the clinically significant cancer. A number of energy sources have been investigated for focal ablation of the prostate, including cryotherapy,13 high-intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU),14 photodynamic therapy,15 and laser ablation.16¡±
?
In addition, there is photodynamic therapy using activating light sensitive drugs previously injected.
So, that's it. I hope it's of interest to you and others. But I can't recommend it, of course, because it's just a personal strategy for coping with PC and living as long as I can.
Joe
On June 16, 2017 at 9:27 AM "Tom Henry tomhenry332@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" < FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
Congratulation Joe!
Few questions:
????????"Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to ????????????also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that ????????????I was still non-metastatic."
1. Who recommended you to take the 2 drugs:?bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart) ?
2. How do you know they are effective for prostate cancer? Any research studies on these 2 drugs?
Please advise. Thank you.
Tom
?
?
Hello Sandra and Everyone,
Perhaps it's time for update. As I've said in previous emails my wife, Bonnie, and I began the Budwig diet on February 15 of this year. Bonnie is a breast cancer survivor, who received surgery and chemo therapy and has now been clear for roughly four years. She decided to begin Budwig for preventive reasons and to make things easier for me.
I received a diagnosis of non-metastatic Gleason 8 prostate cancer just short of 5 years ago and decided then to continue taking finasteride for BPH and using supplements and dietary changes to hold back my cancer. Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that I was still non-metastatic.
To get prescriptions for the two?drugs, I had to fight with my Kaiser Doctors, who want to use Lupron depot in cases like mine. In the end however, I persuaded them to go along with my choices by citing research on both positive results and differences in side effects and just insisting that I would not take Lupron. I have not shared my choice to pursue Budwig, as well as my pharmaceutical choices with my doctors.
I'm tracking the results of my combined Budwig/pharma treatment with monthly PSA tests. Here are my results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
You can see that my PSA has been falling substantially, but that the rate of deceleration in decline of the PSA has been slowing as time passes. At first, I thought that the substantial decline from February 3, to March 3, must have been at least partly due to Budwig, but I now think it was too early for Budwig to have been due to an immediate impact of bicalutamide, because its impact is said to be greatest at the start and I think a decline of 1/3 in the PSA is probably possible after 2 days of taking that drug, considering that the next decline was one of about 80 % over 31 days.
One of the differences between Lupron therapy and bicalutamide therapy is that Lupron will generally reduce PSA to a fraction of 1, perhaps as low as 0.1, whereas, bicalutamide will only lower it to perhaps 2 or so, but rarely lower. So, thus far, I think my results fit the bicalutamide pattern and that I can't distinguish, though neither can I rule out, a definite impact from the Budwig protocol.
Looking at the future however, I think that if my PSA results continue to fall, and as time passes they keep ?declining, then I will be able to say that likely Budwig worked, because my PSA results were incompatible with knowledge about how bicalutamide works.
Apart, from the above, I also want to say that Bonnie and I intend to continue following Budwig for good. We've adapted to the FO/CC well and we believe our health is better in general since we've started the diet. So, at this point we're very happy with Budwig and would recommend it to others.
I also want to say that I think this a wonderful yahoo group, and I greatly appreciate the very good information, encouragement and emotional support created here every day. So, thanks to everyone for your good will and contributions and special thanks to Sandra Olson, Denise Newkirk, and Dana Mills, for leading the way in setting the tone and being so generous in their sharing so much with the group.
Warm Feelings and Great Hopes for All of Us,
Joe Firestone
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Good luck, Jean.
I'm sure we'll all be pulling for you!
Best,
Joe Firestone
On September 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM "Jean Kingston jeankingston74@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ? Thank you Dana. I will really miss the FOCC because I really enjoy it and all its variations. My daughter is coming to help look after me after the surgery and she and my husband will share the cooking, so I'll share this Info with her. ?
Thanks for all the support, you are a good group.
Jean Canada On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, 5:16 PM, Dana Mills dsmills2@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ? ?
Hi Jean,
To add to what Rahel already said, I would stay off FOCC 7 days before and after. If you are having a colon cancer surgery, then the hospital will give you instructions that you have to follow. You would not be able to eat any fiber, and not only ground flaxseeds but no fruits either as they too have fiber. If your juicer has pulp, you will have to filter it off. The only thing I wouldn't do is eat white rice and white bread [their suggestion] as it has no fiber but it might constipate you as bad as it did me.
My best wishes to you for a successful surgery, Dana
From: "Rahel Warshaw-Dadon joy.forward@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
To: FlaxSeedOil2@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Budwig diet and surgery
? ?
Shalom Jean, Yes, as Rod has suggested, avoid eating the Flax Seed Oil (and hence FOCC) from five to seven days before the surgery.? You should probably also avoid it for another five or seven days AFTER the surgery, to allow proper healing of the wound.? However, not eating FOCC does not mean not following the Budwig Protocol.? Continue to avoid all the foods that are not allowed (meat, fish, chicken, eggs, and so on...).? Avoid all oils other than a small amount of coconut oil. ?
I am guessing that perhaps in this case, a small amount of olive oil might be permitted, in salads, or added to cooked food AFTER they are removed from the heat.? Sandra, can you confirm?
Continue to eat only clean whole foods. Continue to follow the rest of the protocol, including juicing and green tea. ?
Wishing you a successful surgery!
Rahel Jerusalem ?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Update - Prostate cancer
Thank You, Rod.
Good luck to you too.
This is a marathon; not a sprint!
Joe
On September 26, 2017 at 2:22 PM "'Rod' holmgren@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ? ? You've had great progress, Joe.? I wish you continued success. ? Rod in MN USA ? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update - Prostate cancer
??
Hi everyone,
Last time I updated here was on June 16, 2017. Since then I've had further progress using my combined therapy of Budwig, bicalutamide, and dutasteride. Here is my updated tracking of PSA test results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96 3/3/17 -- 17.72 4/03/17 -- 4.67 5/03/17 -- 3.11 6/05/17 -- 2.60 7/03/17 -- 2.15 8/02/17 -- ?1.84 9/06/17 -- ?1.75
So, you can see that the decline in my PSA is decelerating. From my reading, I've gotten the notion that PSA under bicalutamide hormonal therapy stabilizes around 2.00. So, I am a bit below that, but not enough to suggest that the Budwig protocol has had additional impact beyond the expected.
However, even though the decline recently has slowed it hasn't stopped, but was at 5% last time around. So, the decline may continue or more importantly, the Budwig effect could manifest itself in a long term stabilization over a few years. I'll see.
Whether or not that happens, I think it likely that my PSA may begin to rise again since experiments with bicalutamide indicate that after an undetermined period of time the hormonal therapy actually begins to work with the cancer. At that point, I'll face a decision about what to do.
My thinking now is that I will go with the Budwig protocol supplemented by turmeric, MCP, and the White Mushroom Powder Julian was kind enough to tell us about recently. That may be effective because the combined therapy I'm using now may actually be hindering the favorable impact of Budwig.
I'll make that move quickly once I'm sure the PSA is no longer stable, so that I have lots of time to evaluate Budwig plus alone. with no allopathic remedies clouding the issue of effectiveness.
So that's it. A good update with optimism for the future and a backup plan if the PSA starts rising again. In addition, I'll have another MRI in the not too distant future, to check out if there's any visible cancer either in or outside the prostate, since I think it is just possible that my cancer may already have been cured and that the remaining PSA level above undetectable is due to BPH and not to prostate cancer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this update? I would greatly value your ideas.
Best to all,
Joe Firestone On June 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM Joe Firestone <eisai@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No one recommended the therapy. I picked it up from this article:
Casodex or bicalutamide is a well-known hormonal therapy for prostate cancer. It blocks the testosterone receptors on cells, but not the testosterone. The likelihood of many side effects is much less from Casodex than from Lupron Depot the favorite recommendation Doctors here in the US. I've read somewhere that Casodex is favored in Europe. Here's a very good wikipedia article on it (note the citations in it):
Casodex alone however, is not sufficient to block testosterone generated by the adrenal gland, so if you take it alone, you'll still be feeding the cancer. Dustasteride is a good supplement to Casodex for blocking testerone generated from the adrenal gland, because, unlike finasteride, another preferred therapy, it is more effective in doing that. Here's wikipedia on the comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutasteride#Prostate_cancer_2?:?
"Dutasteride belongs to a class of drugs called , which block the action of the that convert testosterone into DHT. It is an of all three of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð, , , and . This is in contrast to finasteride, which is similarly an irreversible inhibitor of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð but only inhibits the type II and III . As a result of this difference, dutasteride is able to achieve a reduction in circulating DHT levels of as much as 98%, whereas finasteride is only able to achieve a reduction of 65 to 70%. In spite of the differential reduction in circulating DHT levels, the two drugs decrease levels of DHT to a similar extent of approximately 85 to 90% in the ,where the type II isoform of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð predominates."
More generally, there is a lot of research on dustasteride as you'll see from the wikipedia reference. It's normally prescribed for BPH.
Anyway, I had fight to get the combination of the two drugs prescribed for me. I did not tell my doctors that I would be doing Budwig ?at the same time, but my expectation was and still is that Budwig would shield me somewhat from the likely severity of some of the side effects.?
The Casodex/Dustasteride/Budwig therapy is my way of moving down the road toward an eventual cure for the cancer. I expect Casodex/Dustateride to fail me before too long, and see Budwig as more long-term treatment. I hope all three can get me down the road another 4 - 5 years or for good in the case of Budwig. If it's not for good, then I have in mind various focal ablation techniques more or less on the horizon that may be available from Kaiser over the next 4-5 years. Here's a quote from a memo I wrote to my Kaiser doctors on this
We are living in a period of rapid development of other medical techniques and therapies that will have minimal side effects and that are likely to be available to Kaiser patients during the next few years. These include https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4080850/ : ? ¡°Focal ablation of prostate cancer is an evolving treatment strategy that destroys a predefined region (or target) of the prostate that harbors the clinically significant cancer. A number of energy sources have been investigated for focal ablation of the prostate, including cryotherapy,13 high-intensity focused ultrasound (HIFU),14 photodynamic therapy,15 and laser ablation.16¡± ? In addition, there is photodynamic therapy using activating light sensitive drugs previously injected.
So, that's it. I hope it's of interest to you and others. But I can't recommend it, of course, because it's just a personal strategy for coping with PC and living as long as I can.
Joe
On June 16, 2017 at 9:27 AM "Tom Henry tomhenry332@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote: ?
?
Congratulation Joe!
Few questions:
????????"Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to ????????????also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that ????????????I was still non-metastatic."
1. Who recommended you to take the 2 drugs:?bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart) ?
2. How do you know they are effective for prostate cancer? Any research studies on these 2 drugs?
Please advise. Thank you.
Tom
On Friday, 16 June 2017, 0:56, "Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2]" <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
Hello Sandra and Everyone,
Perhaps it's time for update. As I've said in previous emails my wife, Bonnie, and I began the Budwig diet on February 15 of this year. Bonnie is a breast cancer survivor, who received surgery and chemo therapy and has now been clear for roughly four years. She decided to begin Budwig for preventive reasons and to make things easier for me.
I received a diagnosis of non-metastatic Gleason 8 prostate cancer just short of 5 years ago and decided then to continue taking finasteride for BPH and using supplements and dietary changes to hold back my cancer. Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to also use bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that I was still non-metastatic.
To get prescriptions for the two?drugs, I had to fight with my Kaiser Doctors, who want to use Lupron depot in cases like mine. In the end however, I persuaded them to go along with my choices by citing research on both positive results and differences in side effects and just insisting that I would not take Lupron. I have not shared my choice to pursue Budwig, as well as my pharmaceutical choices with my doctors.
I'm tracking the results of my combined Budwig/pharma treatment with monthly PSA tests. Here are my results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96 3/3/17 -- 17.72 4/03/17 -- 4.67 5/03/17 -- 3.11 6/05/17 -- 2.60
You can see that my PSA has been falling substantially, but that the rate of deceleration in decline of the PSA has been slowing as time passes. At first, I thought that the substantial decline from February 3, to March 3, must have been at least partly due to Budwig, but I now think it was too early for Budwig to have been due to an immediate impact of bicalutamide, because its impact is said to be greatest at the start and I think a decline of 1/3 in the PSA is probably possible after 2 days of taking that drug, considering that the next decline was one of about 80 % over 31 days.
One of the differences between Lupron therapy and bicalutamide therapy is that Lupron will generally reduce PSA to a fraction of 1, perhaps as low as 0.1, whereas, bicalutamide will only lower it to perhaps 2 or so, but rarely lower. So, thus far, I think my results fit the bicalutamide pattern and that I can't distinguish, though neither can I rule out, a definite impact from the Budwig protocol.
Looking at the future however, I think that if my PSA results continue to fall, and as time passes they keep ?declining, then I will be able to say that likely Budwig worked, because my PSA results were incompatible with knowledge about how bicalutamide works.
Apart, from the above, I also want to say that Bonnie and I intend to continue following Budwig for good. We've adapted to the FO/CC well and we believe our health is better in general since we've started the diet. So, at this point we're very happy with Budwig and would recommend it to others.
I also want to say that I think this a wonderful yahoo group, and I greatly appreciate the very good information, encouragement and emotional support created here every day. So, thanks to everyone for your good will and contributions and special thanks to Sandra Olson, Denise Newkirk, and Dana Mills, for leading the way in setting the tone and being so generous in their sharing so much with the group.
Warm Feelings and Great Hopes for All of Us,
Joe Firestone
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Thank you Dana. I will really miss the FOCC because I really enjoy it and all its variations. My daughter is coming to help look after me after the surgery and she and my husband will share the cooking, so I'll share this Info with her. ?
Thanks for all the support, you are a good group.
Jean
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, 5:16 PM, Dana Mills dsmills2@... [FlaxSeedOil2] wrote:
?
Hi Jean,
To add to what Rahel already said, I would stay off FOCC 7 days before and after. If you are having a colon cancer surgery, then the hospital will give you instructions that you have to follow. You would not be able to eat any fiber, and not only ground flaxseeds but no fruits either as they too have fiber. If your juicer has pulp, you will have to filter it off. The only thing I wouldn't do is eat white rice and white bread [their suggestion] as it has no fiber but it might constipate you as bad as it did me.
My best wishes to you for a successful surgery, Dana
From: "Rahel Warshaw-Dadon joy.forward@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
To: FlaxSeedOil2@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Budwig diet and surgery
?
Shalom Jean, Yes, as Rod has suggested, avoid eating the Flax Seed Oil (and hence FOCC) from five to seven days before the surgery.? You should probably also avoid it for another five or seven days AFTER the surgery, to allow proper healing of the wound.? However, not eating FOCC does not mean not following the Budwig Protocol.? Continue to avoid all the foods that are not allowed (meat, fish, chicken, eggs, and so on...).? Avoid all oils other than a small amount of coconut oil. ?
I am guessing that perhaps in this case, a small amount of olive oil might be permitted, in salads, or added to cooked food AFTER they are removed from the heat.? Sandra, can you confirm?
Continue to eat only clean whole foods. Continue to follow the rest of the protocol, including juicing and green tea. ?
Wishing you a successful surgery!
Rahel Jerusalem
|
Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Hi Jean,
To add to what Rahel already said, I would stay off FOCC 7 days before and after. If you are having a colon cancer surgery, then the hospital will give you instructions that you have to follow. You would not be able to eat any fiber, and not only ground flaxseeds but no fruits either as they too have fiber. If your juicer has pulp, you will have to filter it off. The only thing I wouldn't do is eat white rice and white bread [their suggestion] as it has no fiber but it might constipate you as bad as it did me.
My best wishes to you for a successful surgery, Dana
From: "Rahel Warshaw-Dadon joy.forward@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
To: FlaxSeedOil2@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Budwig diet and surgery
?
Shalom Jean, Yes, as Rod has suggested, avoid eating the Flax Seed Oil (and hence FOCC) from five to seven days before the surgery.? You should probably also avoid it for another five or seven days AFTER the surgery, to allow proper healing of the wound.? However, not eating FOCC does not mean not following the Budwig Protocol.? Continue to avoid all the foods that are not allowed (meat, fish, chicken, eggs, and so on...).? Avoid all oils other than a small amount of coconut oil. ?
I am guessing that perhaps in this case, a small amount of olive oil might be permitted, in salads, or added to cooked food AFTER they are removed from the heat.? Sandra, can you confirm?
Continue to eat only clean whole foods. Continue to follow the rest of the protocol, including juicing and green tea. ?
Wishing you a successful surgery!
Rahel Jerusalem
|
Lindsley, can you share your muffin recipe. Before cancer, I loved to bake and miss this more than anything.
Jean
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017, 3:39 PM, Lindsley Silagi lindsley.silagi@... [FlaxSeedOil2] wrote:
?
Hi Frank, ? ? At first I was thinking this too. Pretty much the same over and over. Then I realized that using the basics you can be creative and prepare delicious meals. It takes some trail and error. However stick with it as this is the diet for the long haul to greater health and wellness. I am making small quantities of soups- lentil, potato, pumpkin, carrot; and wild rice with black beans; buckwheat salad; quinoa salad; tabouli salad with quinoa; buckwheat muffins without egg or leavening. ? ? Maybe there are others on this list who want to share recipes that they have come up with using Joanna's recommended foods. ? ? I would love to hear from others about how they are incorporating buckwheat into the daily plan. I make it as a cereal, as a salad, and as muffins.?
? ? Lindsley
|
Hi Frank, ? ? At first I was thinking this too. Pretty much the same over and over. Then I realized that using the basics you can be creative and prepare delicious meals. It takes some trail and error. However stick with it as this is the diet for the long haul to greater health and wellness. I am making small quantities of soups- lentil, potato, pumpkin, carrot; and wild rice with black beans; buckwheat salad; quinoa salad; tabouli salad with quinoa; buckwheat muffins without egg or leavening. ? ? Maybe there are others on this list who want to share recipes that they have come up with using Joanna's recommended foods. ? ? I would love to hear from others about how they are incorporating buckwheat into the daily plan. I make it as a cereal, as a salad, and as muffins.?
? ? Lindsley
On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Frank Samuell fsamuell99@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
Anyone eat pretty much same thing everyday or only a few things? if so what is it and how does that work?
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Re: Budwig diet and surgery
Shalom Jean, Yes, as Rod has suggested, avoid eating the Flax Seed Oil (and hence FOCC) from five to seven days before the surgery.? You should probably also avoid it for another five or seven days AFTER the surgery, to allow proper healing of the wound.? However, not eating FOCC does not mean not following the Budwig Protocol.? Continue to avoid all the foods that are not allowed (meat, fish, chicken, eggs, and so on...).? Avoid all oils other than a small amount of coconut oil. ?
I am guessing that perhaps in this case, a small amount of olive oil might be permitted, in salads, or added to cooked food AFTER they are removed from the heat.? Sandra, can you confirm?
Continue to eat only clean whole foods. Continue to follow the rest of the protocol, including juicing and green tea. ?
Wishing you a successful surgery!
Rahel Jerusalem
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:32 PM, 'Rod' holmgren@... [FlaxSeedOil2] <FlaxSeedOil2@...> wrote:
?
?
As I understand you should discontinue FOCC about a
week before surgery.
?
Rod in MN, USA
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 5:35
AM
Subject: [FlaxSeedOil2] Budwig diet and
surgery
?
I just watched a you tube video where Gene Wei, DOM,AP said you should not
do BP close to having surgery due to the blood thinning properties of Flax
Oil. Is this true and how soon should I stop to BP. My surgery is scheduled 1
week from today.
Jean
Canada
|
Re: Update - Prostate cancer
?
You've had great progress, Joe.? I wish you
continued success.
?
Rod in MN USA
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:56
AM
Subject: Re: [FlaxSeedOil2] Update -
Prostate cancer
?
Hi everyone,
Last time I updated here was on June 16, 2017. Since then I've had further
progress using my combined therapy of Budwig, bicalutamide, and dutasteride.
Here is my updated tracking of PSA test results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
7/03/17 -- 2.15
8/02/17 -- ?1.84
9/06/17 -- ?1.75
So, you can see that the decline in my PSA is decelerating. From my
reading, I've gotten the notion that PSA under bicalutamide hormonal therapy
stabilizes around 2.00. So, I am a bit below that, but not enough to suggest
that the Budwig protocol has had additional impact beyond the expected.
However, even though the decline recently has slowed it hasn't stopped, but
was at 5% last time around. So, the decline may continue or more importantly,
the Budwig effect could manifest itself in a long term stabilization over a
few years. I'll see.
Whether or not that happens, I think it likely that my PSA may begin to
rise again since experiments with bicalutamide indicate that after an
undetermined period of time the hormonal therapy actually begins to work with
the cancer. At that point, I'll face a decision about what to do.
My thinking now is that I will go with the Budwig protocol supplemented by
turmeric, MCP, and the White Mushroom Powder Julian was kind enough to tell us
about recently. That may be effective because the combined therapy I'm using
now may actually be hindering the favorable impact of Budwig.
I'll make that move quickly once I'm sure the PSA is no longer stable, so
that I have lots of time to evaluate Budwig plus alone. with no allopathic
remedies clouding the issue of effectiveness.
So that's it. A good update with optimism for the future and a backup plan
if the PSA starts rising again. In addition, I'll have another MRI in the not
too distant future, to check out if there's any visible cancer either in or
outside the prostate, since I think it is just possible that my cancer may
already have been cured and that the remaining PSA level above undetectable is
due to BPH and not to prostate cancer.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this update? I would greatly value your
ideas.
Best to all,
Joe Firestone
On June 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM Joe Firestone
<eisai@...> wrote:
Hi Tom,
No one recommended the therapy. I picked it up from this article:
Casodex or bicalutamide is a well-known hormonal therapy for prostate
cancer. It blocks the testosterone receptors on cells, but not the
testosterone. The likelihood of many side effects is much less from Casodex
than from Lupron Depot the favorite recommendation Doctors here in the US.
I've read somewhere that Casodex is favored in Europe. Here's a very good
wikipedia article on it (note the citations in it):
Casodex alone however, is not sufficient to block testosterone generated
by the adrenal gland, so if you take it alone, you'll still be feeding the
cancer. Dustasteride is a good supplement to Casodex for blocking testerone
generated from the adrenal gland, because, unlike finasteride, another
preferred therapy, it is more effective in doing that. Here's wikipedia on
the comparison
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutasteride#Prostate_cancer_2?:?
"Dutasteride belongs to a class of drugs called , which block the action of the that convert
testosterone into DHT.
It is an
of
all three of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð,
, , and .
This is in contrast to finasteride, which is similarly an irreversible
inhibitor of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð
but only inhibits the type II and III .
As a result of this difference, dutasteride is able to achieve a reduction
in circulating DHT levels of as much as 98%, whereas finasteride is only
able to achieve a reduction of 65 to 70%.
In spite of the differential reduction in circulating DHT levels, the two
drugs decrease levels of DHT to a similar extent of approximately 85 to 90%
in the ,where
the type II isoform of 5¦Á-°ù±ð»å³Ü³¦³Ù²¹²õ±ð predominates."
More generally, there is a lot of research on dustasteride as you'll see
from the wikipedia reference. It's normally prescribed for BPH.
Anyway, I had fight to get the combination of the two drugs prescribed
for me. I did not tell my doctors that I would be doing Budwig ?at the
same time, but my expectation was and still is that Budwig would shield me
somewhat from the likely severity of some of the side effects.?
The Casodex/Dustasteride/Budwig therapy is my way of moving down the road
toward an eventual cure for the cancer. I expect Casodex/Dustateride to fail
me before too long, and see Budwig as more long-term treatment. I hope all
three can get me down the road another 4 - 5 years or for good in the case
of Budwig.
If it's not for good, then I have in mind various focal ablation
techniques more or less on the horizon that may be available from Kaiser
over the next 4-5 years. Here's a quote from a memo I wrote to my Kaiser
doctors on this
We are
living in a period of rapid development of other medical techniques and
therapies that will have minimal side effects and that are likely to be
available to Kaiser patients during the next few years. These include https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4080850/
:
?
¡°Focal
ablation of prostate cancer is an evolving treatment strategy that destroys
a predefined region (or target) of the prostate that harbors the clinically
significant cancer. A number of energy sources have been investigated for
focal ablation of the prostate, including cryotherapy,13 high-intensity
focused ultrasound (HIFU),14 photodynamic therapy,15 and laser
ablation.16¡±
?
In
addition, there is photodynamic therapy using activating light sensitive
drugs previously injected.
So, that's it. I hope it's of interest to you and others. But I can't
recommend it, of course, because it's just a personal strategy for coping
with PC and living as long as I can.
Joe
On June
16, 2017 at 9:27 AM "Tom Henry tomhenry332@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
wrote: ?
?
Congratulation
Joe!
Few
questions:
????????"Last
fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to make a
change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to
????????????also
use bicalutamide
(Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began those
drugs on March 1, after tests showing that
????????????I
was still non-metastatic."
1. Who
recommended you to take the 2 drugs:?bicalutamide
(Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart) ?
2. How
do you know they are effective for prostate cancer? Any research studies
on these 2 drugs?
Please
advise. Thank you.
Tom
On Friday,
16 June 2017, 0:56, "Joe Firestone eisai@... [FlaxSeedOil2]"
wrote:
?
?
Hello Sandra and Everyone,
Perhaps it's time for update. As I've said in previous emails my
wife, Bonnie, and I began the Budwig diet on February 15 of this year.
Bonnie is a breast cancer survivor, who received surgery and chemo therapy
and has now been clear for roughly four years. She decided to begin Budwig
for preventive reasons and to make things easier for me.
I received a diagnosis of non-metastatic Gleason 8 prostate cancer
just short of 5 years ago and decided then to continue taking finasteride
for BPH and using supplements and dietary changes to hold back my cancer.
Last fall my PSA began to spike and after it reached 27.96, I decided to
make a change and begin the Budwig protocol. I also decided to also use
bicalutamide (Casodex), and dutasteride (Avodart), as well, and began
those drugs on March 1, after tests showing that I was still
non-metastatic.
To get prescriptions for the two?drugs, I had to fight with my
Kaiser Doctors, who want to use Lupron depot in cases like mine. In the
end however, I persuaded them to go along with my choices by citing
research on both positive results and differences in side effects and just
insisting that I would not take Lupron. I have not shared my choice to
pursue Budwig, as well as my pharmaceutical choices with my doctors.
I'm tracking the results of my combined Budwig/pharma treatment with
monthly PSA tests. Here are my results:
2/3/17 -- 27.96
3/3/17 -- 17.72
4/03/17 -- 4.67
5/03/17 -- 3.11
6/05/17 -- 2.60
You can see that my PSA has been falling substantially, but that the
rate of deceleration in decline of the PSA has been slowing as time
passes. At first, I thought that the substantial decline from February 3,
to March 3, must have been at least partly due to Budwig, but I now think
it was too early for Budwig to have been due to an immediate impact of
bicalutamide, because its impact is said to be greatest at the start and I
think a decline of 1/3 in the PSA is probably possible after 2 days of
taking that drug, considering that the next decline was one of about 80 %
over 31 days.
One of the differences between Lupron therapy and bicalutamide
therapy is that Lupron will generally reduce PSA to a fraction of 1,
perhaps as low as 0.1, whereas, bicalutamide will only lower it to perhaps
2 or so, but rarely lower. So, thus far, I think my results fit the
bicalutamide pattern and that I can't distinguish, though neither can I
rule out, a definite impact from the Budwig protocol.
Looking at the future however, I think that if my PSA results
continue to fall, and as time passes they keep ?declining, then I
will be able to say that likely Budwig worked, because my PSA results were
incompatible with knowledge about how bicalutamide works.
Apart, from the above, I also want to say that Bonnie and I intend to
continue following Budwig for good. We've adapted to the FO/CC well and we
believe our health is better in general since we've started the diet. So,
at this point we're very happy with Budwig and would recommend it to
others.
I also want to say that I think this a wonderful yahoo group, and I
greatly appreciate the very good information, encouragement and emotional
support created here every day. So, thanks to everyone for your good will
and contributions and special thanks to Sandra Olson, Denise Newkirk, and
Dana Mills, for leading the way in setting the tone and being so generous
in their sharing so much with the group.
Warm Feelings and Great Hopes for All of Us,
Joe Firestone
?
?
|
Re: Difficulty consuming full budwig protocol
I cannot eat it all either. I dropped mine down to 2 and 4 instead of the 3 and 6. It's just too much.
|
Re: Those that have hormone driven breast cancer do you take DIM?
Thanks for the reply Kristen,
Glad to hear it works for you, I'm hoping it works for me. How much do you take a day? I'm taking 200mg once a day. Is this enough?
|
