On Nov 13, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Jeannie Girard via <photojeannie8@...> wrote:

yes that is what it is for, although on the new keyboard , it just is a recessed circle

Jeannie

On Nov 13, 2024, at 2:55?PM, Pat Taylor via groups.io <pat412@...> wrote:

?Try this and let us know if it works: ?Option–Command–Media Eject keys for 1.5 seconds

Pat

On Nov 13, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Jeannie Girard via <photojeannie8@...> wrote:

My new Imac with the M4 chip arrived Monday, and I have a small annoying problem. I have always used the shortcut option command eject to put my mac to sleep. According to everything I have seen on line, it is still the same, But when I try to use it, I get an empty desktop back and it is asking me for my password. When I put it in, the complete desktop reappears, But It has not gone to sleep . I can make it go to sleep by going to the apple menu and clicking on sleep..But I sure would like my old shortcut back!

Thanks,

?Jeannie

On Nov 13, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Jeannie Girard via <photojeannie8@...> wrote:

My new Imac with the M4 chip arrived Monday, and I have a small annoying problem. I have always used the shortcut option command eject to put my mac to sleep. According to everything I have seen on line, it is still the same, But when I try to use it, I get an empty desktop back and it is asking me for my password. When I put it in, the complete desktop reappears, But It has not gone to sleep . I can make it go to sleep by going to the apple menu and clicking on sleep..But I sure would like my old shortcut back!

Thanks,

?Jeannie

On Nov 13, 2024, at 01:58, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:

?

?

On Nov 12, 2024, at 7:12?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:

Bev, my post was to the group, not aimed at you.?

Yes, your post that was quoted triggered some of my response, but so did Randy’s post which mentioned a keyboard from Canada and a Windows or cross platform keyboard, and so did the posts talking about the keyboards in GB. But that was a tiny sampling of GB keyboards, it appears.

I don’t remember which group I posted my whine to, MacSupportCentral, IOMUG, AllApple or AppleiPhone, since so many of us are on several. It was nothing more than a whine, an unsolvable complaint. I don’t use a password manager app, that will save or enter passwords automatically, by personal choice. So on the few that I try to remember I reliy a lot on muscle memory. Most of the commonly allowed special characters are on the number line. Look at those on your Mac’s keyboard and then on your iPhone. They are not in the same position. So it boils down to hunt and peck, rather than touch or muscle memory.?

I It’s possible that they did an ergonomic study, but it’s also possible that someone got a harebrained idea on a blue moon. ?Only someone who worked on that team could answer that question.

I was going to suggest using a 3rd party keyboard, until then I read this, “While entering sensitive information like passwords, your iPhone or iPad will refuse to use the third-party keyboard and only show the Apple keyboard, even if you have removed it from your list of added keyboards.” ?That makes sense for security reasons, but it also means that you can’t reorder keys to suit your particular needs.

The only alternative that I can see is to learn new muscle memory. ?I’ve had physical keyboards that were so different that it required that. ?With sufficient practice, I was able to easily switch back and forth between keyboards.

The point remains, there is no universal standard for ?keyboards. Many are based on QWERTY, but why do number pads or ?calculators have the one on the bottom, but ?phone keypads have ?one on the top row? Each row of number increases as you go to the right, but why not consistently as you travel vertically, either up or down?

Perhaps that hikes back to touch tone phones?

An unsolvable complaint, a whine!

No easy solutions.

And Alt isn’t even used in Apple’s world.?

But that just made it all the more interesting.

--
Bev in TX

On 13 Nov 2024, at 15:41, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:

On Nov 13, 2024, at 6:57 AM, David G Brooks via groups.io <davidandtrishab@...> wrote:

Do you know of some easy and straight-forward way of testing the speed of my current arrangement(s).

Top 5 benchmark apps for Mac performance tests



Mac Benchmarks



__________________________________________________

Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice

__________________________________________________

On Nov 13, 2024, at 2:14?AM, David G Brooks via groups.io <davidandtrishab@...> wrote:

I hope to be guided by your experience and save gambling with MY $100!?

Whether or not you go spelunking inside your iMac may depend on how fast you want the computer to run. OWC sells an NVMe.2 card that replaces the tiny SSD in the 2017 iMac with a 1 or 2 TB INTERNAL SSD which is DRAMATICALLY faster than the Fusion Drive. You can install all the stuff from your external drive, including the OS itself, on that internal SSD and turn the internal rotating platter drive into your Time Machine backups repository. OWC also has free videos (as does iFixIt) that show all the steps involved. You’re still stuck on an older operating system, but you have all the ports on the back of the iMac and you can connect a Thunderbolt Dock from OWC if you need more.

I’m far less adventuresome inside my Macs than I once was. I had original 128 K RAM, then 512 K RAM “fat” Macs, then a Mac Plus in which one could increase the RAM by desoldering a resistor on the motherboard.

Once the Mac evolved to Intel Processors, I experimented on my Mac Pro and managed to Install a “Bare Metal” version of Windows Small Business Server 2008 OS on it to make sure I could run a Windows Outlook and document host for our business (my only experiences with Windows until Boot Camp and then virtualization software that permitted one to run BOTH the macOS and Window came along).

I’m waiting to hear from the Luna Display folks whether I can use the iMac’s ports, keyboard, and mouse with Luna Display. If not, I won’t go down that road.

--?
Jim Robertson

On 13 Nov 2024, at 03:25, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:

On Nov 12, 2024, at 11:05?AM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:

Of all the people who have contacted me and asked how to use their iMac as a monitor for another Mac, I don’t think that anyone found it worthwhile to attempt. ?However you accomplish it, it will be a kludge. And it might not work well, or at all.

Two reasons I’m trying:

1. Back in the days that Target Display Mode did work, it worked perfectly.
2. The iMac is already sitting on my desk.

I guess I’ll confirm the return policy for Luna Display. On the other hand, I’ve never SEEN so many positive comments on a “rip open your iMac” how-to-do-this” YouTube video as from the link you sent me, but the guy WAS pretty proficient (for example, 3D printing a bracket to guide two cables that now needed to exit the back of the exenterated iMac). I don’t have the heart to wander inside the iMac again myself, but if I’m reassured the Luna Display interface will work with my iMac I’ll at least give it a try and report back. Certainly it wouldn’t make economic sense to spring for a refurbed M1 iMac, but if it enables limited Apple Intelligence manipulations of photos on screens bigger than my 11” iPad Pro or 14” M3 MacBook Pro for an investment of just about $100 (with the laptop doing the processing), I think it’s worth the attempt.

--?
Jim Robertson

On Nov 12, 2024, at 11:47?PM, JR via groups.io <Yahoo_jr@...> wrote:

In the late 90's I worked at an Apple retailer... it's about that time you were able to by a Mac with an optional PC card in it that would allow you to run DOS and early versions of Windows. Later on in 2006 you could add Windows to your operating system and boot right into it using Boot Camp Assistant or Boot Camp. This only worked on Intel based Macs.
Per Wikipedia: "Boot Camp currently supports Windows 10 on a range of Macs dated mid-2012 or newer.^<(software)#cite_note-9> Apple Silicon <> is not supported due to being ARM-based <>. Although Windows 11 <> supports ARM64, the ARM64 version is only licensed to OEMs, and there are no drivers for the Apple silicon SoCs <>, so it cannot run on Apple Silicon Macs natively.

For that basic/simple reason, Apple made keyboards that had PC commands printed on SOME keys (though smaller print) that included "alt" on the option key, and the 4 leaf "clover" ? beside the ?.
I recall working on a PC keyboard and using "alt" + a decimal number to type accented characters and those miscellaneous lines to "build" forms with fancy frames and corners...
"Control" and the remaining keys were the same in either OS. I'm typing this on an old clear keyboard with black keys from my G4 days – the Apple Pro keyboard from 2000.
In 2006 Apple improved Apple keyboard support (for Windows) including Delete, PrintScreen, NumLock, and ScrollLock keys. (I only have delete and num lock symbols on this keyboard.)

Cheers
Dinosaur JR

On Nov 12, 2024, at 1:19?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:

Since some of these keyboards being discussed are third party, and some designed for Windows…

Also, on one of the Apple lists, I recently posted a whine about the special characters on Apple physical and on-screen keyboards not being consistent in locations. Since we are now worrying about an Alt key, that is not used in Apple or for-Apple apps, that is like arguing about the color of unicorn blood.

There is no universal standard for keyboards.