On Dec 29, 2024, at 9:35?AM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Yes. ?Why do you suppose that it wouldn’t it be possible?
Because I simply didn’t know (that current versions of macOS could run on a rotating platter drive and/or one formatted HFS).
One theory that I’ve just now discarded is that the problem is just sloppy html wrangling by an amateur site designer or coder, because after watching the magnificent?A Complete Unknown last night I’ve buried myself in interviews and reviews about the film and Dylan himself (because the same Bob Dylan who ?refused to go to Stockholm to collect his Nobel Prize sat with the movie's director for 18 hours discussing it while it was in preparation and production), and one of the things that's turned my Mac into a sea anchor this morning is the ?website. I’m pretty sure ITS owners have sufficient resources to make certain they employ skilled developers and programmers…
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 29, 2024, at 6:23 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Is it even possible to DO that (boot from a rotating platter external drive) in Sonoma on an M3 MacBook Pro? Yes. Why do you suppose that it wouldn’t it be possible? __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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On Dec 29, 2024, at 01:20, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Especially if you are booted from a rotating disk hard drive. Is it even possible to DO that (boot from a rotating platter external drive) in Sonoma on an M3 MacBook Pro?
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:09?PM, Christopher Collins via < maclist@...> wrote:
Try a different browser with the same sites & see what the result is.
It may well be a problem with how the site itself is written.
Thanks for your suggestions, Chris. I think that what I’ve done on my spouse’s new Mac Air (sporting slightly earlier versions of macOS Sonoma and Safari coming out of its shipping box), with the same site NOT causing these problems offers clues that it’s not JUST the site’s coding that’s causing the issue.
You say “JUST the site’s coding” but isn’t it the job of any browser to deal with any such issues as part of what it routinely does?
Otto
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On 16 Dec 2024, at 19:22, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Thank you Jim Robertson for including a link to this article.
This is unrelated to the OP’s issue, but did me resolve one I had, an shows the similarities between the current macOSes and iOSes.
I recently posted about getting a message that I needed more Storage (I got it correct this time) to install iOS 18 on my iPhone.
While skimming the article, I looked in Settings> General> iPhone Storage and noticed Apple usd the same graphic format as the article showed used in more current macOSes. So I dug around and deleted a few unused Apps, then checked to see if iOS 18 was agreeable to being installed. It was.
My issue was resolved. Thanks , Jim.
And it showed me why there was so much vocal resistance to change with iOS 18. There are many changes in this version. Yes! I don’t recall any iOS version having so many changes compared with the previous version, as 18. Otto
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 9:20 PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Are you saying that I’ve not documented that a problem exists? I’m not sure that one does. Does this happen when you have very few tabs open and/or not a lot of other apps running? Even with great memory management, it’s possible to run out of real RAM. Once your Mac starts having to use virtual memory, things will slow down noticeably. Especially if you are booted from a rotating disk hard drive. There is nothing wrong with Sonoma, so there is no reason to presume that moving to Sequoia is going to fix anything. However, if there is something amiss with YOUR installation of Sonoma, you can rule that out quickly by booting into Recovery and installing a fresh copy of the OS. I doubt that will help either, though, because these days the OS is well protected and mostly foolproof. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Dear All? Thanks all I downloaded Maccleaner Pro. Did the job and I reclaimed 250 GB. I am still not sure of what other files are? Happy for now!!
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On Dec 16, 2024, at 10:22?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
On Dec 15, 2024, at 07:54, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Many of these articles discuss “System Data” as excessive when it exceeds 40-50 GB, but almost 90% of ALL the space on a 1 TB internal SSD drive is just enormous.
Unless you have AppleCare, your Mac is likely out of warranty, but if you describe your problem to Apple on its support page, you might get lucky and be able to talk live to a support engineer.
Here’s one of the articles I found on the topic:
Thank you Jim Robertson for including a link to this article.? This is unrelated to the OP’s issue, but did me resolve one I had, an shows the similarities between the current macOSes and iOSes.?
I recently posted about getting a message that I needed more Storage (I got it correct this time) to install iOS 18 on my iPhone.?
While skimming the article, I looked in Settings> General> iPhone Storage and noticed Apple usd the same graphic format as the article showed used in more current macOSes. So I dug around and deleted a few unused Apps, then checked to see if iOS 18 was agreeable to being installed. It was.?
My issue was resolved. Thanks , Jim.?
And it showed me why there was so much vocal ?resistance to change with iOS 18. There are many changes in this version.?
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Jim, an OS upgrade seldom fixes problems, unless there specifically is a bug fix.?
Some sites have a lot of crap-activity going on. That happens to be a popular web site, so may also be popular with hackers.?
Try the Restore, but if the problems follow over, do a Clean install. The reason I suggest a clean install it that when Apple releases whole number upgrades, they often reset the default setting to highlight new features. So it is a good time to run thru them all.?
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 12:38, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
? On Dec 28, 2024, at 1:26?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Now I might be talking out of my hat, but it might not be just the silicone. It might also be the component of the OS, namely that version of Safari. It evolves as does the OS.?
It sounded like you closed tabs in Safari. ?Next time, try quiting Safari, and reopen it then see if that lowered the demand by clearing caches.?
Thanks for the suggestion, Brent, but my latest post demonstrates (to me at least) that clearing caches and updating Safari to the latest decimal release doesn’t solve the problem, nor does clearing Safari’s entire history.
And, as for the cooking website, I actually was amazed at how much better my popovers turned out following the explicit and demanding instructions in “Mile High Popovers.”?
--?
Jim Robertson
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Well, you don’t actually know that because different versions of the operating systems have different versions of the Safari browser.
Whether the site works somewhere else is irrelevant. Your machine, as is every other machine, is unique!
But, be that as it may, it’s up to you.
You can spend months trying to figure out what’s going on with your particular hardware/software mix, or you can find a resolution by using a different browser.
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On 29 Dec 2024, at 4:25?pm, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:09?PM, Christopher Collins via groups.io <maclist@...> wrote:
Try a different browser with the same sites & see what the result is.
It may well be a problem with how the site itself is written.
Thanks for your suggestions, Chris. I think that what I’ve done on my spouse’s new Mac Air (sporting slightly earlier versions of macOS Sonoma and Safari coming out of its shipping box), with the same site NOT causing these problems offers clues that it’s not JUST the site’s coding that’s causing the issue.
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:09?PM, Christopher Collins via groups.io <maclist@...> wrote:
Try a different browser with the same sites & see what the result is.
It may well be a problem with how the site itself is written.
Thanks for your suggestions, Chris. I think that what I’ve done on my spouse’s new Mac Air (sporting slightly earlier versions of macOS Sonoma and Safari coming out of its shipping box), with the same site NOT causing these problems offers clues that it’s not JUST the site’s coding that’s causing the issue.
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 6:19?PM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
The only time that you ever need to be concerned is if they don’t give up used RAM as needed, resulting in a crash.
My Mac didn’t crash, but its user interface performance deteriorated to a pace that I can only describe as “glacial,” at the same time that Activity Monitor noted enormous amounts of RAM being used by a single web page. No matter HOW sophisticated and “very smart” memory management is, it wasn’t good enough, and my posts were nothing beyond a cry for help to make it so that things get better.
Yes, I CAN see evidence that the OS attempted to rectify the situation (a comment at the top of the problematic web page stating “this webpage was reloaded because it was using significant memory”), but unfortunately that was not effective enough, evidenced by the fact that the entire user interface slowed to a crawl. So, I asked for suggestions; e.g., what the best route would be to exclude gremlins when doing a Sonoma to Sequoia upgrade.
Are you saying that I’ve not documented that a problem exists?
Thanks for the suggestion that I check out the discussion at eclectic light. I’ll do that.
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Jim Robertson
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Try a different browser with the same sites & see what the result is.
It may well be a problem with how the site itself is written.
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On 29 Dec 2024, at 7:34?am, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Dec 28, 2024, at 11:53?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I do have one other weapon to deploy here, however. My spouse’s Christmas “haul” includes a brand new M3 MacBook Air that I’m setting up for her (not as rapidly as she’d like). It arrived a month or so ago running Sonoma 14.6 and Safari 17.6, so I’ll “feed” it a bit of leitesculinaria while I bicycle to nowhere on my indoor trainer and see what happens.
And doing THAT just adds to my confusion, because here’s what Activity Monitor tells me on my laptop after just it sat undisturbed with the culinary website open for about 1.5 hours while I toiled away on my indoor bike for an hour:
<Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 1.25.40?PM.png>
Immediately adjacent, my spouse’s brand new machine, unburdened by “memories” of the tasks of just over a year of daily use, managed to corral the RAM requested by the analogous process to a remarkably stable 1.27 GB, although paradoxically Activity Monitor DID report its “Real Memory Size” to be actually LARGER than on my machine.
What I’m concluding from this is that it’s not macOS all by itself that is causing this misbehavior, but something that’s happened along the way that I’ll probably never ferret out, and it leads me to infer that before I update to Sequoia it might BE prudent to do a data-disk-only backup of my Mac in SuperDuper! and then an erase and restore Sequoia installation of the System volume. Does that make sense?
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:53 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
the memory munchers still do their dirty deeds It’s entirely irrelevant how much memory an app from Apple or an OS process is using at any given time. Apple apps and the OS now do very smart memory management. They will cache things like crazy if they detect that there is free RAM available, in the hopes of improving performance. The only time that you ever need to be concerned is if they don’t give up used RAM as needed, resulting in a crash. Eclectic Light did a whole piece on “memory leaks” in the Mac OS a number of months ago. He railed about how Apple has to fix all the leaks. If you read the comments section you will see that Apple simply told him that that’s how the OS works now; it’s supposed to make use of available RAM. He never mentioned it again. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 1:26?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Now I might be talking out of my hat, but it might not be just the silicone. It might also be the component of the OS, namely that version of Safari. It evolves as does the OS.?
It sounded like you closed tabs in Safari. ?Next time, try quiting Safari, and reopen it then see if that lowered the demand by clearing caches.?
Thanks for the suggestion, Brent, but my latest post demonstrates (to me at least) that clearing caches and updating Safari to the latest decimal release doesn’t solve the problem, nor does clearing Safari’s entire history.
And, as for the cooking website, I actually was amazed at how much better my popovers turned out following the explicit and demanding instructions in “Mile High Popovers.”?
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 11:53?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I do have one other weapon to deploy here, however. My spouse’s Christmas “haul” includes a brand new M3 MacBook Air that I’m setting up for her (not as rapidly as she’d like). It arrived a month or so ago running Sonoma 14.6 and Safari 17.6, so I’ll “feed” it a bit of leitesculinaria while I bicycle to nowhere on my indoor trainer and see what happens.
And doing THAT just adds to my confusion, because here’s what Activity Monitor tells me on my laptop after just it sat undisturbed with the culinary website open for about 1.5 hours while I toiled away on my indoor bike for an hour:
Immediately adjacent, my spouse’s brand new machine, unburdened by “memories” of the tasks of just over a year of daily use, managed to corral the RAM requested by the analogous process to a remarkably stable 1.27 GB, although paradoxically Activity Monitor DID report its “Real Memory Size” to be actually LARGER than on my machine.
What I’m concluding from this is that it’s not macOS all by itself that is causing this misbehavior, but something that’s happened along the way that I’ll probably never ferret out, and it leads me to infer that before I update to Sequoia it might BE prudent to do a data-disk-only backup of my Mac in SuperDuper! and then an erase and restore Sequoia installation of the System volume. Does that make sense?
--?
Jim Robertson
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Nice food / cooking site.?
Now I might be talking out of my hat, but it might not be just the silicone. It might also be the component of the OS, namely that version of Safari. It evolves as does the OS.?
It sounded like you closed tabs in Safari. ?Next time, try quiting Safari, and reopen it then see if that lowered the demand by clearing caches.?
Safari crashes on me in IOS 16-18 because I leave open too many tabs.?
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 09:34, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
? A few weeks ago I posted here about an apparent memory leak in Safari, evident on my Late 2023 14” MacBook Pro with 18 GB RAM (still running Sonoma 14.7), because some Safari processes would grow to consume enormous amounts of System Memory and slow down my user interface dramatically.
I’ll confess that I’ve never been in the habit of rebooting regularly, which might well solve the practical issue, but this morning I noticed that almost anything I did proceeded SO slowly that it reminded me of the VERY early days of the Mac in the mid-1980s (when you could watch the screen update in steps while that single internal floppy drive clicked and hummed (and sometimes spit out its current resident and demanded to be fed another). So I peeked at Activity Monitor (already running, but it took about 3 seconds for the machine to switch to one of its windows, which presented THIS:
<Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 9.36.30?AM.png>
Drilling in on the top item yielded less worrisome details:
<Screenshot 2024-12-28 at 9.37.21?AM.png>
But it set me off playing a “Sonata of Command Q” on my keyboard. One surprise was that the memory gluttons in the first screen grab didn’t disappear until several seconds AFTER I quit from Safari, which may just have reflected HOW poorly my Mac was managing in-use RAM until finally it acquired som breathing room.
Perhaps all I need to do is update to Sonoma 14.7.2 and the latest Safari compatible with that, but I’m still surprised that it happens when many Mac mavens crow about just HOW skilled the M-series Macs are at managing memory usage.
And, in hopes of convincing readers that I’m not just whining, I DO realize that another route to possibly eliminating this nonsense might be to admit that I’m not in Sonoma any more (that is, living in Sonoma County in real life), and just update to Sequoia, and that generates a question: we used to talk about “clean installs” vs,. “install in place” for new generations of the macOS. Is that relevant in this situation? In other words, is it likely that my eventual outcome would be better from doing a data-volume-only backup to my erstwhile “bootable backup” external TB SSD (which we now understand likely is no longer possible for M-series Macs running Sequoia), then ERASING my internal SSD before installing the new OS rather than just doing an “upgrade in place?”
Thanks so much,
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:33?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Perhaps all I need to do is update to Sonoma 14.7.2 and the latest Safari compatible with that, but I’m still surprised that it happens when many Mac mavens crow about just HOW skilled the M-series Macs are at managing memory usage.
Unfortunately, having just done that, it appears it did not help. I have my Mac set to reopen last-used apps on reboot. After quitting all my apps and doing the Software Updates, the memory munchers still do their dirty deeds, although the one with the biggest appetite for RAM seems to be eating it in two separate courses processes:
Even more disturbing, that memory consumption seems to need no help from the user, because here’s what happened when I just let the Mac sit idly while I went off to the shower:
But, I should report a bit of related good news here relating to real vs. metaphorical appetites. The maligned memory-eater was visited two days before Christmas, in hopes I might finally succeed at baking popover pastries that really DID pop (even at 5,000 feet), and they actually DID (photos on request).
I know opinion polls are often frowned upon by listserv monitors, but I AM curious about whether other users believe I’ll resolve this issue by updating to Sequoia. I do have one other weapon to deploy here, however. My spouse’s Christmas “haul” includes a brand new M3 MacBook Air that I’m setting up for her (not as rapidly as she’d like). It arrived a month or so ago running Sonoma 14.6 and Safari 17.6, so I’ll “feed” it a bit of leitesculinaria while I bicycle to nowhere on my indoor trainer and see what happens.
--?
Jim Robertson
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A few weeks ago I posted here about an apparent memory leak in Safari, evident on my Late 2023 14” MacBook Pro with 18 GB RAM (still running Sonoma 14.7), because some Safari processes would grow to consume enormous amounts of System Memory and slow down my user interface dramatically.
I’ll confess that I’ve never been in the habit of rebooting regularly, which might well solve the practical issue, but this morning I noticed that almost anything I did proceeded SO slowly that it reminded me of the VERY early days of the Mac in the mid-1980s (when you could watch the screen update in steps while that single internal floppy drive clicked and hummed (and sometimes spit out its current resident and demanded to be fed another). So I peeked at Activity Monitor (already running, but it took about 3 seconds for the machine to switch to one of its windows, which presented THIS:
Drilling in on the top item yielded less worrisome details:
But it set me off playing a “Sonata of Command Q” on my keyboard. One surprise was that the memory gluttons in the first screen grab didn’t disappear until several seconds AFTER I quit from Safari, which may just have reflected HOW poorly my Mac was managing in-use RAM until finally it acquired som breathing room.
Perhaps all I need to do is update to Sonoma 14.7.2 and the latest Safari compatible with that, but I’m still surprised that it happens when many Mac mavens crow about just HOW skilled the M-series Macs are at managing memory usage.
And, in hopes of convincing readers that I’m not just whining, I DO realize that another route to possibly eliminating this nonsense might be to admit that I’m not in Sonoma any more (that is, living in Sonoma County in real life), and just update to Sequoia, and that generates a question: we used to talk about “clean installs” vs,. “install in place” for new generations of the macOS. Is that relevant in this situation? In other words, is it likely that my eventual outcome would be better from doing a data-volume-only backup to my erstwhile “bootable backup” external TB SSD (which we now understand likely is no longer possible for M-series Macs running Sequoia), then ERASING my internal SSD before installing the new OS rather than just doing an “upgrade in place?”
Thanks so much,
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Christmas Question #2
Sorry to be reminded about your crash. Was another vehicle involved and who was at fault?
I’m a big fan of road cycling, especially the Grand Tours but rarely ride myself.
Oh, and “rubber side down” is also used a lot by motorcyclists. My last bike was a Yamaha YZF1000R Thunderace.)
Otto
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The most volatile topic in my household the past few years has been my “addiction” to riding a racing road bicycle. Montana’s official and unofficial postures with respect to bicycles on public roadways is somewhat less than welcoming, and I had one life threatening crash in spring 2022 as a direct consequence of that. However, the two less serious crashes I’ve been in since then, although each productive of temporary disabling injuries, have bothered my psyche very little, EXCEPT for my wife’s continuing threats to sell my bike.
That’s led to a humorous Christmas present from my wife’s son and my former riding partner when we lived in the same CA city (we’re now 100 miles apart in Montana). One casual road cyclist’s mantra is “keep the rubber side down.” The Christmas present is a T-shirt , with the following text on the chest, presented upside down:
OK? My Bike IS Hey,
Is there any easy way to send an email, SMS, or iMessage in iOS or macOS with the text upside down? (I want to respond in kind).
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Re: Christmas Question #2
Sorry to hear about your crash. Was another vehicle involved and who was at fault?
(I’m a big fan of road cycling, especially the Grand Tours but rarely ride myself.)
Otto
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On 26 Dec 2024, at 17:38, John via groups.io <Jlblake@...> wrote:
Merry Christmas Jim from an old Pegoretti road bike rider. Put about 30,000 miles on it over 10 years in the SW Washington state area. The same problem you had, took a serious crash about 4 years ago and my bride said that’s the last time she will see me coming up to the house a bloody mess! I sure miss riding though and have many dreams. A very intoxicating activity. Cheers.
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Brent