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I have a 2100B to use with the FT 101 station.? I take it to the cabin and use it on all bands. Typically run it at 500 out. Never had a single issue with it ever. Its possible it was worked on at some point and upgraded. I understand early 2100 and 2100B had real problems like you describe Jim.?

These amps where abused for sure as almost nobody hooked up the ALC and if you ran it with a 101 you then put 150 watts into it.? With the ALC hooked up and set, it backs the drive down to about 50 watts and has a clean output.? There is zero gain to place the amp on 240volt. The transformer does not have dual primary. It will just run the amp off one leg of the 240.

The Bias and Oscillation problems of early units is described here:

C

I? had a brand? new? FL-2100B? back? in 1976.? ?Worked? on? all? bands...? for a while.??
Then? on? 10M,? it? flat? out? would? not? tune? properly on? 10M..into a flat? swr.?
The? xfmr? ran? very? hot.....even? when? on? standby? for an? hr.? (240? vac? ?60 hz)?
Cooling? was? very? minimal,? so added a? extra? fan? on? top,? sucking? hot? air out.
SWR? meter? was flaky.? SWR? would? increase as power? output? increased....which? is? nonsense? of? course.
I? believe? the? 2100Z? has? 160M.?
Pulse? tune? the? amp? (like? with? 60? wpm? dots.....and? use? a pep? meter)..should? get? aprx? 600 w? out.?

Local? buddy also? had? a new? 2100B.? ?I? tuned his,? and? promptly arced? the? bandswitch. His? was a parasitic? nightmare? from? day 1. Never? did? get? resolved.? ??
I? see? there? is a lot? of? mods? for? these? amps.? Beware,? it? has? taps for? 100/200? vac..for? JA? use.

Whatever? u? do,? don't? buy? either? version.? I? was glad to? get rid? of? mine.

Jim? ?VE7RF

-- 
Please let me quote you for your parts needs!
I offer a discount on Protunes with parts order!
Clark Turner
480-695-2898

I? had a brand? new? FL-2100B? back? in 1976.? ?Worked? on? all? bands...? for a while.??
Then? on? 10M,? it? flat? out? would? not? tune? properly on? 10M..into a flat? swr.?
The? xfmr? ran? very? hot.....even? when? on? standby? for an? hr.? (240? vac? ?60 hz)?
Cooling? was? very? minimal,? so added a? extra? fan? on? top,? sucking? hot? air out.
SWR? meter? was flaky.? SWR? would? increase as power? output? increased....which? is? nonsense? of? course.
I? believe? the? 2100Z? has? 160M.?
Pulse? tune? the? amp? (like? with? 60? wpm? dots.....and? use? a pep? meter)..should? get? aprx? 600 w? out.?

Local? buddy also? had? a new? 2100B.? ?I? tuned his,? and? promptly arced? the? bandswitch. His? was a parasitic? nightmare? from? day 1. Never? did? get? resolved.? ??
I? see? there? is a lot? of? mods? for? these? amps.? Beware,? it? has? taps for? 100/200? vac..for? JA? use.

Whatever? u? do,? don't? buy? either? version.? I? was glad to? get rid? of? mine.

Jim? ?VE7RF

FL2100B (not Z, but quite similar) with FT-450, at the club

Regards
Guillermo - LU5WE.

Anyone using a fl200z with anything...?

Ive been very kindly loaned a 2100Z to try with my Orion 2.

Anything I should be aware of before I hit the "smoke on" button?



David G4YVM

Cliff,? the? link? for? the? ameritron? site? does? not? work? for? the AL1200? manual? (nor? the? AL-1500,? under? downloads).??
The 2nd? link? works....? but? not sharp,? slightly? blurred.? Appears? that? the? step? start? resistor is? 'R3".... and? is a 10? ohm? @ 12? watt unit.? (lou,? can? u? verify? the? value +? wattage).
RLY-2? is? listed? as? a ..'SPDT? 120 vac? AC? relay'...? wired? as a SPST.? ?(NC? contact? not? used).? ? No? current? ratings? given.
I? see? no? delay? circuit for? RLY-2? anywhere...except? for? the brief? V? drop? across R3...which? temp? kills? the? V? into RLY-2. (imo,? that's a piss? poor? excuse? for a? 'delay? circuit').
With? only? 10? ohms? for? the? step? start? resistor,? the? filter? caps? will? charge up extremely? fast...and? RLY-2? will? activate..almost? instantaneous.?
With only 10 ohms,? caps? will? be? almost? fully? charged....? which? will? minimize? the? secondary? surge...(that's? good).....IF? there? is? enough? of a delay? before RLY-2 activates.?
A? split? second delay? is? not long? enough.? It? requires a proper 2-3? second delay? circuit.? They? could? have? used a DC? relay, with? a simple? RC? time? constant....or a programmable? timer.

Jim? VE7RF? ? ??

I? went? through? the? SSR? scenario? ?years? ?ago.? The? issue? with? em? is.....? they EACH? require? a massive? heat? sink.? SSR's? are only? SPST? by? design, so to? apply? 240? vac,? you require? 2? of? em...+? 2? x heatsinks.? The? heatsinks? are? stupid? big.? If? only? one big? heatsink? used,? each? SSR must? be well? spaced? apart,? or? they? will? cook? each? other.? ?Ideally,? you? want a zero? voltage turn? on......? and a? zero? CURRENT? shut? off.? ?IMO,? they? also? have too? much? leakage? across? em...that's a safety? issue.

For these? table? top? amps, like? my? Drake? L4B, it? was? simpler, to just install a DPST? relay (30-40A? contacts)? plus a SPST? relay (30-40A? contacts)... +? a new? 25? ohm @? 100? watt WW (cheap? at? Mouser)? into an? 8x8x4 outboard box.? ?You? can? always? use a DPST? for? the? shunting? relay,? with? one? set? of? contacts? to? shunt? the? resistor...and? the? 2nd? set? of? contacts? has? the? key? line through? it.? That? way,? the? amp? can? not? be? keyed, until the? step? start has? completed.? ?BTW,? only? ONE? step? start? resistor? required,? regardless? of? whether? 120? vac? or? 240 vac? is? used.

On? that? HB? 6700? vdc (10? kva? xmfr)? supply I? built,? I? installed a 0-15? sec? timer? for the? step? start.? Plug in? ?8 pin? octal? type? (flush? mount? type socket).? Timer? uses? ?DPDT-10A? contacts.? One? set of? contacts? used to apply? 120? vac? to the? shunting relay's? coil.? ?The? 2nd set? of? contacts wired? to? a pair? of? RCA? connectors..which? had? the? key? line? routed? through? em.? ?Same? deal,? the? YC-156? could? not? be? keyed, until? the? 15? sec step? start sequence is completed.? ?

On? buddy's? 8 kv? supply (15 kva xmfr),? we? used? surplus (NIB-$50.00,? still? available,? they? even? came? with aux? contacts)? ?3PST-135A? contactors...(220? vac? solenoid coil..designed? to? work? from? 200-250? vac).? We paralleled (using 1x1 x 1/8",? angle? AL)...? ?all? 3? x contacts? on? both? the? input +? output of? 3 contactors.? That? turns? em? into a 400A? contactor.? One? assy? into? each? leg? of? the? 240? line.? 3rd? contactor's 1x1? angle? al? is directly? bolted? to? the? 1x1? angle? of? one? of? the? ?other? contactor's? output. 0-15? sec? timer? used? to? activate the? shunting? contactor.? ?Again,? we? 1st? looked? at? SSR's? in? depth,? and? gave? up? on em.? The? SSR? maker? depicted? a typ? use? for? SSR's....? using a myriad? of em? in both parallel? +? series....? to? turn? on +? off....? a? 150? hp? electric pump? motor.....which? ran? on 600? vac,? 3? phase.? Sounds? wonderful? till? you? saw? their? depicted schematic,? complete? with? a ton? of? SSR's? +? heatsinks....way? too much? to? go? wrong....and an? unholy bitch? to? trouble? shoot, ever? mind? the? back emf? when? shutting? off a? 150? hp..under? load !? ?(a? simple 3? pole? contactor is? what? the? SSR's? are? trying? to? emulate).? ?In? any? event,? I? would? not? use a SSR...for? applying 240? vac....? nor? ?esp shunting a step? start? R.? ?

Small? ?surplus? 3 pole? contactors (like 10- 20-30A? contacts)? ?are? readily? available..... and for? ham? use,? only? 2? poles? are used,? to? apply? 240? vac.

One? thing? I? do? on? the external? step? start? setup? for the? L4B's..... when? done? for? the? night, I? 1st? switch? the? step? start? resistor? back inline... then? shut off the main dpdt? relay.? ?Any? back? emf? from? the? plate xfmr? primary? has? to? 1st get? past? the? step? start? resistor.? The? step? start? resistor? kills the? back? emf? dead....and? zero? arcing? when? main? DPST? relay releases.? ?Contactors? split? any? arc? into? 2 x simultaneous..=? minimal? to? no? ? arcs...since? each? pole of? a? contactor? is? just a? spst-DM arrangement...(2? contacts? with? a bar? coming? down? on? em).? ?The? spring? in a? contactor? is? stiff,? to? enable a fast? release. Flip side? is....? a? huge? amount? of? magnetism? is? ?required...hence? the? solenoid.

Jim? VE7RF? ? ?



? ? ? ?

How about a pair of these boys before the step-start resistors
( zero-crossing )



then a delayed high amperage contactor that shorts across both the SSR
and resistors.


Don W4DNR


Quoting Jim VE7RF <jim.thom@...>:

If a? big? arc occurs? when? contacts? closing,? something? is? not? designed? correctly.? ?That? is? no place? for? puny? 10-20 A? rated? contacts,? or? using real? short? delays.? Just? increasing? the delay? a? bunch? would? go a long? way? to minimizing the? arc.?
?
Jim? VE7RF

Hi Don,
? ? ? ? ? ? That info is in the user manual page 13 for the schematic and page 14 for the parts list available fore free from the Ameritron website at??and also available free of charge at?

Very 73,
Cliff - KU4GW

Here? is? how? I? did? my? external step? start.? ?I? used? a? ?8"? x 8"? x 4"? electrical? box....with? knock? outs.
240? vac? line, using 10? gauge? wire, is hardwired? from? 2? pole? breaker? in my? 100A sub panel..to? 8x8x4? box.? 240? power? cable? from L4PS? also? hardwired? to same? 8x8x4? box.?
Garden? variety? DPST? 30A? relay,? (P+B,? deltrol,? etc)? is? installed in? 8x8x4 box...and used? to? apply? the? 240? vac. (Drake RF? deck? ON/OFF? switch? left to? ON? position).
2nd? relay,? SPST,? also? 30A,? used to? shunt? the? 25? ohm @ 100? watt? wire? wound.? Wire wound? mounted? on? standoff's.? So? 2 x relays + resistor mounted in? the? 8x8x4? box.?

Small? control? cable wired? from? 8x8x4? box? to? desk....? terminating? in a small? mini? box.? Mini? box? has? 2 x? miniature? toggle? switches on it.? ?One? toggle? per? relay? coil.

Toggle? #1? applies? 240? vac.? After 3-5 secs,? toggle? #2 is activated,? shunting the? 25? ohm resistor.? Dead simple.? ?Step? starts both the? B+? AND? the? fils....at the? same? time.?
ZERO? arcing? when? either? relay is activated.? ?It's? just a? manual? step? start? setup.? 250 Volt? MOV? across SPST? step? start? relay? contacts.? (130 Volt? MOV? across? coils? of both? relay? coils).?

If switching? from? 2650 vdc....down? to? 1900? vdc,? no? problem.? ?But? when? switching back? from? 1900? to? 2650? vdc, the? ?toggle? #2? is? 1st? activated....? putting? the? resistor? back inline.
Toggle #2? ?then activated,? again? shunting? resistor.?

240? vac /? 25 ohms? = 9.6? amps? =? ?2304 watts...when? T=0.? That only? last a? few? Msecs? as? caps? charge? up.? ?(The? harbach board? uses a 22 ohm,? 25 watt cement? resistor).

(I? have? also used a? 0-15? sec? adjustable? timer? to apply the? 120 vac? to the? coil? of the step start contactor....? but? that's? only? on? Big? ?HB? B+? supplies,? and ONLY? the? B+? supply? is? step? started. The? fil? from? the? tube? has it's? own? step? start /variac? combo...? bigger? metal? triodes).

Jim? VE7RF??

Any Schematics with relay numbers for home builders ?


Don W4DNR




Quoting "Louis Parascondola via Groups.Io" <Gudguyham@...>:

Ameritron makes an outboard box that the amp or any amp plugs into that has step start built in. Not sure whats inside. Maybe MOV?? I like to build my own but this might be an option as you would not have to modify the amp or any other amp you own. Other options would be a resistor/cap across the contacts. I have a chart here somewhere to select the value. It appeared in Electric radio magazine.? I have used this before on boat anchor transmitter relays and the spark was gone.? I recently added MOVs to my Johnson 500. It had 25 AMPS of startup current that banged the hell out of the plate transformer.? Startup is now 2 to 3 amps at the peak and rises up dead silent on key up.

C

A? ?HD? MOV? ?across? the? contacts? would? work? better.? ? ?Lou? sez? the? delay? is? not? long? enough.? ? 2-3? seconds? would? be? optimum...and? minimize? any? secondary? surge.?
You? want? the? B+? to? get? as? high? as? possible....? before? shunting? the? step? start? resistor.

Jim? ?VE7RF?

I think Lou has it worked out but I love your bit about the butt off the chair.

That's why I love building and working i=on tube amplifiers. Every now and then you get one of those incidents and the adrenalin rush is such a great feeling.

73, Alek. VK6APK

You might want to put a 0.1UF to 1UF non-polarised capacitor across the contacts if there isn't one. This is usually done to prevent arcing across AC contacts.

Clint, VE3CMQ