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--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "pentalab" <jim.thomson@...>
wrote:

Lemme get this straight

To calculate Grid diss..... we take RMS cathode V x DC grid
current ???

If that's the case..... that equates to 1.2 KW of drive to
a 3CX-6000A7..... to just max out the grid [rated at 225 W
CCS].

On ssb..... I don't think it's a problem anyway. We tried it
last night..... 1200 w of drive = 15 kw output... no sweat....
no fuss ..no muss.... and clean too.

Amazing.. how the gain keeps going down,as drive increases.
With 100 w of drive = 3 kw out. 200 w of drive = 5 kw out.
800 w of drive = 11.5 kw out.

You just gotta love all these surplus vac caps, cheap copper
tubing from home depot, surplus 7-16 Din's, surplus vac relay's
etc. Those 253 lb Dahl's are a bargain..... they just keep
pumping it out for hours on end.... they will put taps
galore on em for you... freebie.

For the price they charge for the suckers, they out to gold plate them
too!

The Dahl primary's are unique too.... they all come tapped now
for 198-208-218 - 230-240-250v . The primary has to be built
like a tank to run on 198 V [IF u had 198 line V]..... they
are.... the primary taps coming out are all 1" wide buss bar !!

With the 6 x secondary voltage taps.... and the 230-240-250 primary
taps.... you can get 18 x different combo's right there with
just a C input filter.... and another 18 x more with a choke
input filter.

They pump the plate xfmr full of silicone varnish glop, under
high pressure.... then suck out the air bubbles in a vac
chamber... then back to pressure.. then back to the vac...... then
they get a baked in the oven for hours on end.

Don't be blinded by all the Dahl-Hipersil hoopla, there's a few other
very good companies who make some gem dandy transformers, and for a
way better price. I'll dig up a couple of address for you later today.
One in Canada who makes the ones for Ten-Tec. There's one in Kentucky,
that does a really good job, but I can't remember the name without
looking it up. Another is Galaxy Transformer who makes some big ones
for a builder down in Florida.

If you get a chance, ask Hal Mandel about a dealing he has with Dahl
on a custom transformer. It made me wonder who they had there
designing them.

If things work out, I'll be doing a few C-cores up to 3 kVA output (1.
5 kVA input) for a few friends. I just got an e-mail back from the
core supplier today.

The 253 lb hypersil is aprx 16" h x 16" w x 10.75"
deep. For you QRO types... the next core up is 440 lbs....
19" x 19" x 13" deep.

You can buy 5 x of em for the price of just one new alpha.

So get crackin........... later Jim VE7RF

Best,

Will

On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:47 AM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Rich sez So how can a 3-500 be gettered by running the

filament only?

###### It can't !! 3-500'z don't have any internal filament
heat activated getter's....end of story.

Rich sez...So operating the filament of a new one for 48-hrs does

nothing to getter the tube?


### Correct ! 0-48 hr- 48 days on a new 3-500Z will NOT
getter the tube..... from fil heat. There are NO heat activated
getter's on a 3-500Z. On a 3-500Z.... u gotta get the anodes
to show some colour.

So Tom was just blowing Smoke. He and his faithful followers are good at that.

### On a metal tube.... different story [thoriated tungsten fil
only] They do have 4 x getter's.... that are fil heat
activated.

### I just checked... and Eimac suggests to run the fil's
only... no HV..... "for several hours" ..on a new or rebuilt
tube. Bake em for 48 hrs as suggested.... and you are
laughing.

Econco did not suggest this for the 8170 they rebuilt for me. I plugged it in, turned it on, and it ran FB right out of the gate.

thanks, Jim

Jim VE7RF








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R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

Lemme get this straight

To calculate Grid diss..... we take RMS cathode V x DC grid
current ???

If that's the case..... that equates to 1.2 KW of drive to
a 3CX-6000A7..... to just max out the grid [rated at 225 W
CCS].

On ssb..... I don't think it's a problem anyway. We tried it
last night..... 1200 w of drive = 15 kw output... no sweat....
no fuss ..no muss.... and clean too.

Amazing.. how the gain keeps going down,as drive increases.
With 100 w of drive = 3 kw out. 200 w of drive = 5 kw out.
800 w of drive = 11.5 kw out.

You just gotta love all these surplus vac caps, cheap copper
tubing from home depot, surplus 7-16 Din's, surplus vac relay's
etc. Those 253 lb Dahl's are a bargain..... they just keep
pumping it out for hours on end.... they will put taps
galore on em for you... freebie.

The Dahl primary's are unique too.... they all come tapped now
for 198-208-218 - 230-240-250v . The primary has to be built
like a tank to run on 198 V [IF u had 198 line V]..... they
are.... the primary taps coming out are all 1" wide buss bar !!

With the 6 x secondary voltage taps.... and the 230-240-250 primary
taps.... you can get 18 x different combo's right there with
just a C input filter.... and another 18 x more with a choke
input filter.

They pump the plate xfmr full of silicone varnish glop, under
high pressure.... then suck out the air bubbles in a vac
chamber... then back to pressure.. then back to the vac...... then
they get a baked in the oven for hours on end.

The 253 lb hypersil is aprx 16" h x 16" w x 10.75"
deep. For you QRO types... the next core up is 440 lbs....
19" x 19" x 13" deep.

You can buy 5 x of em for the price of just one new alpha.

So get crackin........... later Jim VE7RF

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Sep 25, 2006, at 4:30 PM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...>

wrote:

### when guys tell me 1/2" tubing tank coils run so

bloody

hot on 10m, they require 100-200 cfm....

Rich- Water-cooled Cu tubing tank coils and water-cooled vacuum
capacitors are common in larger commercial amplifiers.

### Jenning's only list's one water cooled cap...1000A !

Rich Sez... Jim -- A 1000A rating is barely enough for a tank Q of

15 and a tube such as the 8973. (18v, 650A filament)

#### Nobody in their right mind [except Tom Rauch] is ever gonna
run a loaded tank Q of 15 ! Using the 'new' formulae for
calculating tank Q [entire network Q]..... use a Q of 8-10 ...
and circulating currents through the caps/coils/bandswitch
contacts, etc... are minimized. With lower plate load Z's...
like 1000-1500 ohms...... 2-3-4th harmonic suppression on a PI
is improved.... compared to much higher plate load Z's. Mono
band yagi's, etc.... are going to look like a sky high Z on
their 2nd harmonic anyway.


## For broadcast stuff..... they parallel vac caps together...
standard procedure. They will typ parallel one or more
variable caps ... with one one or more fixed ceramic vac caps....
via enonourmous wide buss bar to minimize stray L... and to
handle the RF. Paralleling stuff for more current has to be done
right..... to evenly distribute the current.

Later... Jim VE7RF

cheers

R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

Rich sez So how can a 3-500 be gettered by running the

filament only?

###### It can't !! 3-500'z don't have any internal filament
heat activated getter's....end of story.

Rich sez...So operating the filament of a new one for 48-hrs does

nothing to getter the tube?


### Correct ! 0-48 hr- 48 days on a new 3-500Z will NOT
getter the tube..... from fil heat. There are NO heat activated
getter's on a 3-500Z. On a 3-500Z.... u gotta get the anodes
to show some colour.

### On a metal tube.... different story [thoriated tungsten fil
only] They do have 4 x getter's.... that are fil heat
activated.

### I just checked... and Eimac suggests to run the fil's
only... no HV..... "for several hours" ..on a new or rebuilt
tube. Bake em for 48 hrs as suggested.... and you are
laughing.

Jim VE7RF

On Sep 26, 2006, at 8:28 AM, Bill Turner wrote:

Please guys, do some trimming when quoting messages in your replies.
Recently there have been posts with as many as four levels of quotes
with replies interspersed which are virtually unreadable as a result.
With that many levels, there is no way to tell who said what or who
you are replying to.

One or two quoted sentences followed by your reply always works
better.

Another problem is missing or incomplete quoteback marks.

Thanks!

73, Bill W6WRT





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r@...

A problem with TFE is cold-flow under the pressure of a hose clamp. Silicone rubber does not have this problem.

On Sep 26, 2006, at 8:34 AM, w4iiv@... wrote:

so what species of raptor do we plan on cooking??
Steven Grant W4IIV

Silicone rubber hoses might be a better choice.

On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:43 PM, jmltinc@... wrote:

Hey all,

I would like to build a water cooled GS-35B for 2 meters. Although
not set in
stone, the current design uses a 3" dia, 1/2wl plate line.

Am I dreaming of routing the water lines out the HV end of the
line? If I
must route them out the hi-current point, any advice to getting the
Teflon hoses
from the inside of the plate line?

Thanks,
John, N9RF



Yahoo! Groups Links

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r@...

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

Phil Clements escribi:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., GGLL <nagato@...> wrote:

Well, do you remember my last post about that VHF solid state

amp?. I emailed

Henry radio asking for data about the transistors and if possible a

circuit

schematic. I think it was 5' later I received the answer to my

questions, they

also offer to mail me the manual. That's fast and good service.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

Please share your findings with the group.
Thanks,
Phil, K5PC

Yes, Phil, I'll do that; I always heard the owner was called Ted Henry, is this ok?. The answers in all cases were signed by a man called Ted Shannon Henry, so I guess if not a son or relative, the owner itself!.
By the way, he said me he not recall the CD 4778 as used in that linear, but 2N6084 instead.
That reinforce my idea of a previous owner fix, although the person who might changed the transistor did an excellent job, all transistor solder look as original.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

so what species of raptor do we plan on cooking??
Steven Grant W4IIV

Please guys, do some trimming when quoting messages in your replies.
Recently there have been posts with as many as four levels of quotes
with replies interspersed which are virtually unreadable as a result.
With that many levels, there is no way to tell who said what or who
you are replying to.

One or two quoted sentences followed by your reply always works
better.

Thanks!

73, Bill W6WRT

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:30:13 -0000, "coffmado" <coffmado@...>
wrote:

Don't know if you were referring to me or not.

73 - Doug N9XTF

------------ REPLY FOLLOWS ------------

Nope.

Bill, W6WRT

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., GGLL <nagato@...> wrote:

Well, do you remember my last post about that VHF solid state

amp?. I emailed

Henry radio asking for data about the transistors and if possible a

circuit

schematic. I think it was 5' later I received the answer to my

questions, they

also offer to mail me the manual. That's fast and good service.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

Please share your findings with the group.
Thanks,
Phil, K5PC

Silicone rubber hoses might be a better choice.

On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:43 PM, jmltinc@... wrote:

Hey all,

I would like to build a water cooled GS-35B for 2 meters. Although not set in
stone, the current design uses a 3" dia, 1/2wl plate line.

Am I dreaming of routing the water lines out the HV end of the line? If I
must route them out the hi-current point, any advice to getting the Teflon hoses
from the inside of the plate line?

Thanks,
John, N9RF



Yahoo! Groups Links

R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:15 AM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

### No I have not. 1 e-mail to eimac ought end the

discussion . Rauch claims amperex etc... all use

zirconium coated anodes... and gettering is done when tubes
show colour... aprx 800 deg C. I'm inclined to agree.

Rich sez So how can a 3-500 be gettered by running the filament

only?

###### It can't !! 3-500'z don't have any internal filament
heat activated getter's....end of story.

So operating the filament of a new one for 48-hrs does nothing to getter the tube?

### Later... Jim VE7RF

A 3-500Z
has no internal getter........ so it's either the tube has
zirconium on the anode..... or it has NO getter at all !

Jim VE7RF

Yahoo! Groups Links

R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

On Sep 25, 2006, at 4:30 PM, pentalab wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

### when guys tell me 1/2" tubing tank coils run so

bloody

hot on 10m, they require 100-200 cfm....

Rich- Water-cooled Cu tubing tank coils and water-cooled vacuum
capacitors are common in larger commercial amplifiers.

### Jenning's only list's one water cooled cap...1000A !

Jim -- A 1000A rating is barely enough for a tank Q of 15 and a tube such as the 8973. (18v, 650A filament)

cheers

R L MEASURES, AG6K. 805-386-3734
r@...

On Sep 25, 2006, at 5:46 AM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

R L Measures wrote:

On Sep 24, 2006, at 8:19 PM, Tony King - W4ZT wrote:

That's an excellent idea Bill. I will have to try that the next time I
test GS-35B's. Don't know if I will be able to see much with the
ceramic
but I would bet it would be easy to see with glass tubes. Maybe
someone
else could report on that one. One of these new small space age
magnets
should produce enough magnetic field. Stuck on the end of a large
tywrap
should make it safe enough.

What kind of flowers do you want, Tony?

<snip>
Oh, I don't want any flowers, Rich. I'm talking about one of the BIG
tywraps, the LONG ones, not the 6 or 10 inch variety. Not the black ones
either ;)

Your point is well taken. In any case, it should be done with a LONG,
well insulated "stick".

My discharge stick is made from varnished bamboo, a 1000-ohm, 100w resistor taped to the side, and a clip-lead gnd wire at the handle end of the sucker.

73, Tony W4ZT



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Guillermo,

Yes, I remember. I wanted to tell you that the resistors off the base
to ground are correct, and most likely are 10 ohm carbon comp type.
However, I've never seen one base of one transistor tied to another
transistors base with a resistor. Are these transistors in parallel or
the standard two in push-pull? I can't see that at all in a push-pull
circuit, just the 10 ohm to ground off each transistor. That is part
of the bias circuit. I'm wondering if someone was playing around in it
not knowing what they were doing to be honest.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., GGLL <nagato@...> wrote:

Well, do you remember my last post about that VHF solid state amp?.

I emailed

Henry radio asking for data about the transistors and if possible a

circuit

schematic. I think it was 5' later I received the answer to my

questions, they

also offer to mail me the manual. That's fast and good service.

Best regards
Guillermo - LU8EYW.

I threw a few misc pix on the ..'photo's .

Later.... Jim VE7RF

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

### when guys tell me 1/2" tubing tank coils run so

bloody

hot on 10m, they require 100-200 cfm....

Rich- Water-cooled Cu tubing tank coils and water-cooled vacuum

capacitors are common in larger commercial amplifiers.

### Jenning's only list's one water cooled cap...1000A !

### Jenning's makes one air cooled cap... abt 17" long...8"
diam. 400A.... [no air] and 600A [with air] . Fair radio has
tons of these air cooled jobs.... 4000 pf @ 10 kv. I sent mine
back... way too bloody big. I got some surplus Jennings 4000 pf
@ 5 kv instead. This smaller one is the only Jenning's cap
where the test and working V is the same !

I tend to listen,,,and
not try an re-invent the wheel. [on 10m, you can easily be
dissipating 200w of heat... all of it into just a 2-3 turn
coil.... as opposed to 120 watts of heat on 20m..... and way
more turns on 20m to boot]. Actually 3/4" is better....

and strap... laid flat... like a parasitic suppressor wound on a

globar is the best for a 10m tank coil.

Strap will have RF flowing down both sides.... where as

tubing only conducts on the outside. 1.5" wide strap works
superb... eq to 1" tubing... and minimal stray C between
turns.

Good points, Jim, but there's a bit more to it. Round tubing has
uniform RF current distribution, while strap concentrates RF

current

at the edges.

### which edge??? Inside or outside. Rauch couldn't answer
that question !


Thus, at the same current, tubing with the same

surface area as strap will show less heating than the strap. For
example, Cardwell rates 0.5" tubing at 40A while 0.5" strap is

rated at 15A. However, there is a considerable space saving with
strap, and it's easier to wind, so I prefer strap.

### 1" wide strap.. for interconnects.. and taps on coils works
great... zip inductance too. I use the .022" thick stuff.


### Carwell [multronics] rates 1/2" FIXED strap at 20A CCS....
and 15 A for variable 1/2" edge wound roller inductor's.

### The 40 A rating for 1/2" tubing is meaningless. I went
through this yrs ago with Multronics. They haven't got a clue
what freq any of those current rating are, for any of their
products.

### Unless they spec a freq... a mode... a duty cycle... a temp
rise over ambient....... the ratings are meaningless !!

## 1/4" tubing will handle 36 A.... on 1.8 mhz.

### Skin depth on 160m is .05mm Skin depth on 30 mhz
is .01mm..... a huge difference. Plug the skin depth program
in... and use even lower freqs..... big diff from one end of the
broadcast band to the other.

### Multi-tech inc [former RSC] tells me they bought out all
the tools and dies, etc... lost all the paper work... and haven't a
clue what freq their switches are rated at ! They rate a model
88 at 30A CCS. It might handle 30 A .... at 60 hz. I had to
parallel 3 x wafers of the model 88 to make it work.... and then
add "double commons" to each wafer. Also had em custom build me
new custom sequential 5 pole rotors.

## what hams call a 'shorting switch'....Rauch calls it a 'pick
up and hold switch'. The correct terminology is [coming from
multi-tech].... is a 'multiple pole rotor'

Later.... Jim VE7RF