On Sun, Feb 5, 2023 at 03:48 PM, Dave Wade wrote:
GC20-1807 Looks right, for 202 & 203 but I think the SVC202 has been extended by mods.
I've found (and read) manuals for SVC 202/203, finally and that is taking me into the code, specifically DMSITS and DMSFNC. (Special thanks to Olaf for writing VMFEE EXEC.) File: $DMSITS? ASSEMBLE A1? RECFM: F LRECL:? 72(80) Lines:? 1549 Current:?? 340
????? ....+....|....+|...2....+....3|...+....4....+....5....+....6....+....7.|
===== * THE HALFWORD CODE MAY BE EITHER POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.? A NEGATIVE??? ?
===== * CODE SPECIFIES THE SAME ROUTINE AS A POSITIVE CODE, BUT THERE IS???? ?
===== * THE FOLLOWING DIFFERENCE:? IF THE CALLED ROUTINE GIVES AN ERROR????? ?
===== * RETURN (NON-ZERO REGISTER 15), THEN A POSITIVE CODE WILL CAUSE?????? ?
===== * DMSITS TO ABEND, WHILE A NEGATIVE CODE WILL CAUSE DMSITS TO RETURN?? ?
===== * TO THE POINT WHERE THE SVC WAS INVOKED.????????????????????????????? ?
=====????????? LTR?? XR,XR?????????????????? IS THE CODE NEGATIVE??????????? ?
=====????????? BP??? *+8???????????????????? SKIP IF POSITIVE??????????????? ?
=====????????? OI??? NRMSAV+TYPFLAG-SSAVE,TPFERT SET ERROR RETURN FLAG?????? ?
=====????????? LPR?? R15,XR????????????????? GET ABSOLUTE VALUE OF CODE????? ?
=====????????? SPACE???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
===== * THE ROUTINE NAME IS DETERMINED BY THE SECOND BYTE OF THE HALFWORD??? ?
===== * CODE.? THIS LEAVES SEVEN BITS OF THE FIRST BYTE WHICH MAY BE USED??? ?
===== * TO PASS INFORMATION TO THE SVC ROUTINE BY THE CALLER.??????????????? ?
=====????????? N???? R15,=A(X'FF')?????????? GET ROUTINE CODE??????????????? ?
=====????????? BZ??? NO203?????????????????? ZERO CODE IS ILLEGAL??????????? ?
=====????????? L???? R14,=V(DMSFNC3)???????? POINT TO SVC 203 FUNCTION TABLE ?
=====????????? C???? R15,0(,R14)???????????? DOES THIS EXCEED MAXIMUM CODE?? ?
=====????????? BH??? NO203?????????????????? ILLEGAL IF IT DOES????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? I'm trying to find out if there is documentation on the SVC 203 halfword table. DMSITS has been extended by the person bright enough to add this bit. FSVIEW: DMSITS AUXHRC F1?????????????????? Lines 1-1/1 F80[1-79]? FSVIEW V1.2.5HRC404DS V01 NUCEXT and SUBCOM supportWhat I'm not finding is any external documentation on the table (DMSFNC) that SVC 203 (DMSITS) uses to determine what happens when I pick a particular halfword value. At this point, I'm reading through the assembler code for both of these routines to understand what is going on. So, if you bothered to read this far, if you know anything about SVC 203 and it's use of a halfword table to determine the function required ... I'm all ears. ?... Mark S.
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Rene, thanks so very much for sharing this information. ?So the Hercules changes for NJE _are_ present in the source. That leaves the RSCS and possibly VM/CE enhancements for NJE connectivity as required to implement NJE Node connections.
Thanks, again, Harold Grovesteen
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 08:03 -0700, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote: On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 08:00 AM, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
Check it here (files tcpnje.c and tcpnje.h):
These two files are also in SDL-Hercules.
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Yes, that's quite correct.
Jay Maynard wrote:
> I apologize if I implied that SDL isn't about stability and
> correctness. It's just that it hangs out more on the bleeding
> edge of capability than Aethra is intended to, and has different
> development priorities.
Ah. Okay. That much is true, so apology accepted. :)
Would it be fair to say that Aethra is intended to be more focused on legacy guest operating systems whereas SDL is currently more focused on more modern guest operating systems? Yes? Would that be fair to say? I just want people to be clear regarding the difference between the two! Thanks.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Jay Maynard wrote: I apologize if I implied that SDL isn't about stability and
correctness. It's just that it hangs out more on the bleeding
edge of capability than Aethra is intended to, and has different
development priorities. Ah. Okay. That much is true, so apology accepted. :) Would it be fair to say that Aethra is intended to be more focused on legacy guest operating systems whereas SDL is currently more focused on more modern guest operating systems? Yes? Would that be fair to say? I just want people to be clear regarding the difference between the two! Thanks. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
I apologize if I implied that SDL isn't about stability and correctness. It's just that it hangs out more on the bleeding edge of capability than Aethra is intended to, and has different development priorities.
Jay Maynard wrote:
> Dave McGuire? wrote:
> > Jay Maynard wrote:
> >
> > > Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include
> > > them in Aethra, if allowed.
> >
> > What is Aethra?
>
> Aethra is a Hercules distribution I'm developing and hope to
> release soon. It's intended to be more focused on stability
> and correctness and portability than SDL, which is more
> bleeding-edge.
More bleeding-edge is true enough, as SDL Hyperion Hercules tries hard to make the changes necessary to support IBM's latest and greatest versions of their "z" operating systems, but I take issue with your comment regarding stability, correctness and portability.
As far as I know SDL Hyperion Hercules is both absolutely correct AND quite stable and portable as well.
Why would you say such a thing, Jay?
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Jay Maynard wrote: Dave McGuire wrote:
Jay Maynard wrote:
Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include
them in Aethra, if allowed. What is Aethra? Aethra is a Hercules distribution I'm developing and hope to
release soon. It's intended to be more focused on stability
and correctness and portability than SDL, which is more
bleeding-edge. More bleeding-edge is true enough, as SDL Hyperion Hercules tries hard to make the changes necessary to support IBM's latest and greatest versions of their "z" operating systems, but I take issue with your comment regarding stability, correctness and portability. As far as I know SDL Hyperion Hercules is both absolutely correct AND quite stable and portable as well. Why would you say such a thing, Jay? -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Jay, not sure if you are addressing your question about the Hercules changes to me or Mike.
I never got as far as implementing anything with regard to the NJE node. ?I know there have been a few implementations by some individuals. ?They may better know the exact status of the Hercules changes. I would think they are licensed under the Q Public license which would allow distribution. ?BSC over TCP/IP might be the changes from a Hercules perspective.
Harold Grovesteen
On Fri, 2023-05-19 at 09:13 -0500, Jay Maynard wrote: Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include them in Aethra, if allowed.
I have had extensive discussions with the author of the enhancements.
It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
capabilities.? It provides NJE node support in VM/370.? There are
Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used by NJE.
The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS or modern
operating systems using NJE.? Transferring of files, in particular is
supported.
As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available.? Whether they are
part of the distribution, I do not know.
The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure RSCS for
this usage.? The author I am confident can point someone to the
documentation that would help in use of the enhancements.? This assumes
the author is willing to share the VM related software with the user.
My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an add on to
SATK.? That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems.? All of the NJE-node supporting
products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary.? I was
looking at an Open Source implementation.? Very big job, and with the
author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my momentum
for pursuing the idea.
Harold Grovesteen
On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote: > Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below. > ? > IIRC e.g. it went like this > > TAG DEV ¡. > SP CON START ¡ > SP CON CLOSE > ? > However, I did not use this in an HERC environment. > ? > The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment > options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable. > A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable. > ? > Best regards > Mike > ? > From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57 > To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE > ? > On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote: > > I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.? > > Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be > done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it > with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course, > that assumes we have the necessary code. > > Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited > understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines: > > 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to > the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system; > 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and > get back the output on VM; > 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or > submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS. > > > Rene FERLAND, Montreal > > >
--
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 08:00 AM, Ren¨¦ Ferland wrote:
Check it here (files tcpnje.c and tcpnje.h):
These two files are also in SDL-Hercules. Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Fantastic! I look forward to it.
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 5/19/23 10:53, Jay Maynard wrote: Aethra is a Hercules distribution I'm developing and hope to release soon. It's intended to be more focused on stability and correctness and portability than SDL, which is more bleeding-edge.
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:21?AM Dave McGuire <mcguire@... <mailto:mcguire@...>> wrote:
? ?What is Aethra?
? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 5/19/23 10:13, Jay Maynard wrote:
> Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include them in
Aethra,
> if allowed.
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 8:25?AM Harold Grovesteen
<h.grovsteen@... <mailto:h.grovsteen@...>
> <mailto:h.grovsteen@... <mailto:h.grovsteen@...>>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?I have had extensive discussions with the author of the
enhancements.
>? ? ?It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
>? ? ?capabilities.? It provides NJE node support in VM/370.? There are
>? ? ?Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used
by NJE.
>? ? ?The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS
or modern
>? ? ?operating systems using NJE.? Transferring of files, in
particular is
>? ? ?supported.
>
>? ? ?As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available.
Whether they are
>? ? ?part of the distribution, I do not know.
>
>? ? ?The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure
RSCS for
>? ? ?this usage.? The author I am confident can point someone to the
>? ? ?documentation that would help in use of the enhancements.
This assumes
>? ? ?the author is willing to share the VM related software with
the user.
>
>? ? ?My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an
add on to
>? ? ?SATK.? That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
>? ? ?VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems.? All of the NJE-node
supporting
>? ? ?products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary.
I was
>? ? ?looking at an Open Source implementation.? Very big job, and
with the
>? ? ?author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my
momentum
>? ? ?for pursuing the idea.
>
>? ? ?Harold Grovesteen
>
>? ? ?On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote:
>? ? ? > Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > IIRC e.g. it went like this
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > TAG DEV ¡.
>? ? ? > SP CON START ¡
>? ? ? > SP CON CLOSE
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > However, I did not use this in an HERC environment.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment
>? ? ? > options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable.
>? ? ? > A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Best regards
>? ? ? > Mike
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>? ? ?<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> On Behalf Of
Ren¨¦ Ferland
>? ? ? > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
>? ? ? > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>? ? ? > Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
>? ? ? > > I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything
useful.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if
something could be
>? ? ? > done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to
reproduce it
>? ? ? > with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of
course,
>? ? ? > that assumes we have the necessary code.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited
>? ? ? > understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS
RJE lines:
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from
one system to
>? ? ? > the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
>? ? ? > 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to
submit jobs and
>? ? ? > get back the output on VM;
>? ? ? > 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer
files or
>? ? ? > submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Rene FERLAND, Montreal
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jay Maynard
>
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
--
Jay Maynard
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 07:13 AM, Jay Maynard wrote:
Can you point me at the Hercules changes?
Check it here (files tcpnje.c and tcpnje.h): See also: Cheers, Rene FERLAND, Montreal
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Aethra is a Hercules distribution I'm developing and hope to release soon. It's intended to be more focused on stability and correctness and portability than SDL, which is more bleeding-edge.
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:21?AM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote:
? ?What is Aethra?
? ? ? ? ? -Dave
On 5/19/23 10:13, Jay Maynard wrote:
> Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include them in Aethra,
> if allowed.
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 8:25?AM Harold Grovesteen <h.grovsteen@...
> <mailto:h.grovsteen@...>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?I have had extensive discussions with the author of the enhancements.
>? ? ?It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
>? ? ?capabilities.? It provides NJE node support in VM/370.? There are
>? ? ?Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used by NJE.
>? ? ?The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS or modern
>? ? ?operating systems using NJE.? Transferring of files, in particular is
>? ? ?supported.
>
>? ? ?As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available.? Whether they are
>? ? ?part of the distribution, I do not know.
>
>? ? ?The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure RSCS for
>? ? ?this usage.? The author I am confident can point someone to the
>? ? ?documentation that would help in use of the enhancements.? This assumes
>? ? ?the author is willing to share the VM related software with the user.
>
>? ? ?My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an add on to
>? ? ?SATK.? That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
>? ? ?VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems.? All of the NJE-node supporting
>? ? ?products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary.? I was
>? ? ?looking at an Open Source implementation.? Very big job, and with the
>? ? ?author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my momentum
>? ? ?for pursuing the idea.
>
>? ? ?Harold Grovesteen
>
>? ? ?On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote:
>? ? ? > Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > IIRC e.g. it went like this
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > TAG DEV ¡.
>? ? ? > SP CON START ¡
>? ? ? > SP CON CLOSE
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > However, I did not use this in an HERC environment.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment
>? ? ? > options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable.
>? ? ? > A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Best regards
>? ? ? > Mike
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>? ? ?<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland
>? ? ? > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
>? ? ? > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>? ? ? > Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
>? ? ? > > I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be
>? ? ? > done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it
>? ? ? > with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course,
>? ? ? > that assumes we have the necessary code.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited
>? ? ? > understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines:
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to
>? ? ? > the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
>? ? ? > 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and
>? ? ? > get back the output on VM;
>? ? ? > 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or
>? ? ? > submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? > Rene FERLAND, Montreal
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>? ? ? >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jay Maynard
>
>
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
What is Aethra?
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 5/19/23 10:13, Jay Maynard wrote: Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include them in Aethra, if allowed.
On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 8:25?AM Harold Grovesteen <h.grovsteen@... <mailto:h.grovsteen@...>> wrote:
I have had extensive discussions with the author of the enhancements.
It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
capabilities.? It provides NJE node support in VM/370.? There are
Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used by NJE.
The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS or modern
operating systems using NJE.? Transferring of files, in particular is
supported.
As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available.? Whether they are
part of the distribution, I do not know.
The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure RSCS for
this usage.? The author I am confident can point someone to the
documentation that would help in use of the enhancements.? This assumes
the author is willing to share the VM related software with the user.
My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an add on to
SATK.? That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems.? All of the NJE-node supporting
products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary.? I was
looking at an Open Source implementation.? Very big job, and with the
author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my momentum
for pursuing the idea.
Harold Grovesteen
On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote:
> Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below.
>
> IIRC e.g. it went like this
>
> TAG DEV ¡.
> SP CON START ¡
> SP CON CLOSE
>
> However, I did not use this in an HERC environment.
>
> The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment
> options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable.
> A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable.
>
> Best regards
> Mike
>
> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
> > I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.
>
> Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be
> done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it
> with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course,
> that assumes we have the necessary code.
>
> Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited
> understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines:
>
> 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to
> the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
> 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and
> get back the output on VM;
> 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or
> submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
>
>
> Rene FERLAND, Montreal
>
>
>
--
Jay Maynard
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Can you point me at the Hercules changes? I'll include them in Aethra, if allowed.
I have had extensive discussions with the author of the enhancements.
It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
capabilities.? It provides NJE node support in VM/370.? There are
Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used by NJE.
The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS or modern
operating systems using NJE.? Transferring of files, in particular is
supported.
As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available.? Whether they are
part of the distribution, I do not know.
The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure RSCS for
this usage.? The author I am confident can point someone to the
documentation that would help in use of the enhancements.? This assumes
the author is willing to share the VM related software with the user.
My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an add on to
SATK.? That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems.? All of the NJE-node supporting
products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary.? I was
looking at an Open Source implementation.? Very big job, and with the
author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my momentum
for pursuing the idea.
Harold Grovesteen
On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote:
> Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below.
> ?
> IIRC e.g. it went like this
>
> TAG DEV ¡.
> SP CON START ¡
> SP CON CLOSE
> ?
> However, I did not use this in an HERC environment.
> ?
> The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment
> options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable.
> A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable.
> ?
> Best regards
> Mike
> ?
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland
> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE
> ?
> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
> > I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.?
>
> Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be
> done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it
> with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course,
> that assumes we have the necessary code.
>
> Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited
> understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines:
>
> 1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to
> the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
> 2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and
> get back the output on VM;
> 3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or
> submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
>
>
> Rene FERLAND, Montreal
>
>
>
|
Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
I have had extensive discussions with the author of the enhancements.
It is a significant enhancement for RSCS and its attachment
capabilities. It provides NJE node support in VM/370. There are
Hercules enhancements that support the TCP/IP connection used by NJE.
The enhancements allow VM/370 to talk to VM/370 and S/370 MVS or modern
operating systems using NJE. Transferring of files, in particular is
supported.
As far as I know, the Hercules changes are available. Whether they are
part of the distribution, I do not know.
The vintage documentation will not describe how to configure RSCS for
this usage. The author I am confident can point someone to the
documentation that would help in use of the enhancements. This assumes
the author is willing to share the VM related software with the user.
My interest was in developing a Python based NJE-node as an add on to
SATK. That would dramatically ease the movement of files between
VM/370, MVS 3.8 and modern systems. All of the NJE-node supporting
products for Windows or Linux and the like are proprietary. I was
looking at an Open Source implementation. Very big job, and with the
author's reluctance to share his work, that sort of killed my momentum
for pursuing the idea.
Harold Grovesteen
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On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 21:11 +0200, Mike Beer wrote: Many years ago I did 1) ¨C as described below.
?
IIRC e.g. it went like this
TAG DEV ¡.
SP CON START ¡
SP CON CLOSE
?
However, I did not use this in an HERC environment.
?
The current z/VM RSCS documention describes several attachment
options ¨C so creating a modern RSCS should be doable.
A standard TCP/IP support however would be desirable.
?
Best regards
Mike
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ren¨¦ Ferland
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 20:57
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Doubts about setting up RSCS #VMCE
?
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 08:42 AM, Bob Bolch wrote:
I think VM/370 RSCS is too old to do much of anything useful.? Overall, I agree with you. However I feel that if something could be
done, back in the days of VM/370, we should be able to reproduce it
with VM/370 CE, even if it is not particularly useful. Of course,
that assumes we have the necessary code.
Looking at the documentation of the time, with my limited
understanding of it, I believe it was possible, with RSCS RJE lines:
1) to connect two VM/370 instances, to punch files from one system to
the card reader of a virtual machine on the other system;
2) to connect VM/370 RSCS to MVS as a RJE station, to submit jobs and
get back the output on VM;
3) to connect a RJE station to VM/370 RSCS to transfer files or
submit jobs to virtual machines like CMSBATCH or DOS/VS.
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
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Re: Doubts about setting up RSCS
#VMCE
Hi. This is a very clarifying recap! From what I read on the documentation (late 70s):
https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/VM_370/Release_4/GC20-1816-1_Resource_Spooling_Communications_Subsystem_Rel_4_Aug77.pdf (12, pdf-pag 22)
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/370/VM_370/plm/SY20-0888-1_VM370_Rel_5_Vol_3_Dec77.pdf? (3-15, pdf-pag 23)
It appeared to me that RSCS was initially intended to do 2) and 3).
Sure 1) is the most interesting of the three cases to me, but the earliest documentation I read (early 80s) that suggested the feasibility of that scenario: https://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/370/RSCS/SH24-5005-1_Remote_Spooling_Communication_Subsystem_Networking_Program_Reference_and_Operations_Manual_2nd_ed_.198007.pdf (1-23, 1-24 pdf-pag 41 and 42) Appeared to me to be of a later version of RSCS (Release 2?) and, although I don't find a reference in the document, I asume it may be from a later VM370 version (/SP /XA etc...) but not what we have. So, regardless of a 'patched'/enhaced version of RSCS has been separatelly developed with major improvements, I think it is very interesting to have an overview of what can be done with what we have :-) ... Maybe in the future 2) is fixed and VM370CE can be connected to tk4-! would be fun! , and, regarding 3), if I knew about a linux RJE client, I would definitely try :-)! Cheers!
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
It would be helpful to at least have the bitsaver link to vmR6: on the community vM page
Tim,? I would grab all the manuals from that page.
I don't know what "OLTSEP" is.? ?I've never used it.
The other manuals will cover everything else.?
--more? /cls? ?is documented here? (pg 341)
Dave Wade wrote:
> Mike Beer wrote:
[...]
> > The CMS Terminal Users Guide describes that nicely.
> > "The CLEAR key performs the same function as the PA2 key."
>
> It does not in VM/370. "Clear" clears the entire screen, "PA2" only
> clears the output area. Anything typed in the input area is untouched...
Quite right.
I guess I need to start reading *all* of peoples' replies before replying myself. I just posted a reply saying essentially the same thing (but as usual, not as concise). Sorry for the duplication folks.
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories
mail: fish@...
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
Dave Wade wrote: Mike Beer wrote: [...] The CMS Terminal Users Guide describes that nicely.
"The CLEAR key performs the same function as the PA2 key." It does not in VM/370. "Clear" clears the entire screen, "PA2" only
clears the output area. Anything typed in the input area is untouched...
Quite right. I guess I need to start reading *all* of peoples' replies before replying myself. I just posted a reply saying essentially the same thing (but as usual, not as concise). Sorry for the duplication folks. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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Re: vm370 ce - "MORE..." and some questions - Where are getting started manuals?!
Mike Beer wrote: [...] The CMS Terminal Users Guide describes that nicely:
"The CLEAR key performs the same function as the PA2 key." Current version:
40.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc0302a.nsf/pages/zVMV7R2sc246266/$file/d
msb3_v7r2.pdf Interesting! Because that's actually wrong. The CLEAR key clears the *entire* screen, including the input and status areas too, thereby requiring the entire next screen to be rebuilt in its entirety, including the input and status areas too. PA2 on the other hand, simply causes a programmed attention interrupt to occur, thereby allowing VM to simply display the next screen of messages without touching the input or status areas (other than to change the status message to "RUNNING" instead of "MORE..."). The two functions are *not* the same. The end result is ultimately similar from the user's point of view (i.e. they both cause the next screen of messages to be displayed), but they are most definitely *not* identical in their functionality. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@...
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On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 10:16 AM, Dave Wade wrote:
Tim,
There is no way for a user to allocate a tape as via JCL on MVS. Typically, sites used to use the MSG command to ask the operator who would:-
?
1. Mount the tape = Hercules devinit command
2. Attach it to the requesting user, e.g. ¡°ATT 580 CMSUSER 181¡±
3. Send a message back to say its done¡ ¡°MSG CMSUSER YOUR TAPE IS READY¡±
?
Of course as you are both user and operator you can just mount the tape and attach it to your user-id.?
You can unmount a tape attached to your user by ¡°TAPE RUN¡±
You can then use the Hercules console to mount another tape, or do ¡°DET 181¡± to give the drive back to the system
?
Dave
I know next to nothing about VM, but I have this memory from 1979 when I was a summer intern. The operator was asked to do an attach of a device to a vice president so I could show off our project. The VPs userid was ABE.? The operator did "ATTACH xyz ABE".? It gave some cryptic error msg. I got my development manager/guru and he explained that since the userid was a valid hex number the command had to be "ATTACH xyz TO ABE". Bill
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Hello!
Good news. I'm not sure why it got locked. On some for a they get locked
after a long period, say one year, but not like this. I'd lock one that
there are complaints about of course. You know what kind. But not that kind.
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became
heroes."
Princess Leia of Alderaan Senator
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Fish Fish Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 3:10 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Topic locked?! Yep. It went through this time. Thanks Gregg. -- "Fish" (David B. Trout) Software Development Laboratories mail: fish@... -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gregg
Levine
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Topic locked?!
Importance: High
Hello!
You're right Fish the thread was locked. It was unlocked. Try it now.
--
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon@...
"They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became
heroes."
Princess Leia of Alderaan Senator "And more was left behind by the Imperial Army when they were forced off of Fortus prime by the Rebellion. It included a trove of fresh information."
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Mark A. Stevens
Ren¨¦ Ferland
Dave McGuire
Bill Lewis