¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

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Locked Unusual First Name

 

I recently had the opportunity of visiting the Church in Hampsthwaite and found the grave of the father and mother-in-law of a 2nd great aunt.? This listed a number of grand children (children of my aunt) who had died in their infancy and who were new to me. There were/are two Elizas, an Alice and another called Aitit (I think). I've not come across this name before, is it that unusual? Am I right in my transcription? Is it an abbreviation, what does it mean? Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts? Its interesting that the name was clearly carved at a different time to the rest of the stone, suggesting that even the mason wasn't sure of it.
BobH
GRO births and deaths

 

The GRO now has an option for instant access to a subset of birth and death certificate for ?2.50. You search their indexes as normal, and if the option is available, there's a button to click.
?
"Online View digital image for historic, digitised civil registration records held by GRO (birth entries from 1837 up to 100 years ago and death entries from 1837 - 1887)."

Lin
Re: Horsforth Peace Garden

 

Hi Maureen,

Have you tried the usual sources for burials?? Family Search, Find My Past, Ancestry etc?? They all have Yorkshire burials listed. Find a Grave has a few listings for the Peace Garden.

GenUKi might be helpful too, as would contacting someone at the current St Margaret's Church, which replaced the old chapel.? The records were probably passed on to them when the 'Old Bell Tower' (the local name for the chapel) was closed.

Lesley
Colwyn Bay

On 06/07/2023 23:40, Maureen Farrer wrote:
Hi Listers,

I am looking for grave sites in the Horsforth Peace Garden as this was the old St.Margaret¡¯s Chapel. I have two ancestors buried there and would like to know how to
find out if there is a record of burials I could look at and who to contact regarding this.

Maureen in Oz.
Horsforth Peace Garden

 

Hi Listers,

I am looking for grave sites in the Horsforth Peace Garden as this was the old St.Margaret¡¯s Chapel. I have two ancestors buried there and would like to know how to
find out if there is a record of burials I could look at and who to contact regarding this.

Maureen in Oz.
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

I would like to thank? everyone for their advice and thoughts which have been helpful.
Margaret?

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023, 13:00 Martin Briscoe (W10 laptop), <list@...> wrote:

I have always just put it down to there being the need for financial support and somewhere to live.? The options for a single woman were very limited and not always good.

?

One of my Great Great Grandmothers was Irish / Canadian and married my Great Great Grandfather in Quebec, they had a son there in 1844 then the regiment returned to England.? My Great Grandmother was born whilst the regiment was in Chester, the regiment left for Ireland soon after the birth.? He died in Ireland in the following year so she was left with two infants ¨C I don¡¯t think the Army gave a pension to a widow. Next record has her in Yorkshire in the 1851 Census as the pauper widow of a soldier (I suspect his Yorkshire family might have arrange a cottage for her live in).? She remarried in 1854, she was probably about 32 and her husband 75.? He appears to have been a neighbour and I presume it was a marriage of convenience, he died a few years later.

?

?

?

Martin Briscoe
martin@...
Fort William
Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507)

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret Shearing
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 4:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have always just put it down to there being the need for financial support and somewhere to live.? The options for a single woman were very limited and not always good.

?

One of my Great Great Grandmothers was Irish / Canadian and married my Great Great Grandfather in Quebec, they had a son there in 1844 then the regiment returned to England.? My Great Grandmother was born whilst the regiment was in Chester, the regiment left for Ireland soon after the birth.? He died in Ireland in the following year so she was left with two infants ¨C I don¡¯t think the Army gave a pension to a widow. Next record has her in Yorkshire in the 1851 Census as the pauper widow of a soldier (I suspect his Yorkshire family might have arrange a cottage for her live in).? She remarried in 1854, she was probably about 32 and her husband 75.? He appears to have been a neighbour and I presume it was a marriage of convenience, he died a few years later.

?

?

?

Martin Briscoe
martin@...
Fort William
Ancestry DNA, FTDNA (B68554), GEDMatch (A374507)

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret Shearing
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 4:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Could he simply have wanted companionship and a housekeeper? And could she have wanted stability and a comfortable home?
Carole


On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 09:53, Margaret Shearing <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:
Thanks John. I found the record on fs years ago and refused to believe the ages. Then recently found the marriage record on fmp without ages. I liked that record! But then I checked fs again and decided to send for a copy of the original marr bond. So that proves he was a bachelor and was 60. No clue as to why he married a young bride though.?
I thought he might have got her in the family way but I cannot find a suitable birth.?
I was also amazed to find she remarried? only 3 months after his death.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 22:11 John Hanson via , <john.hanson=[email protected]> wrote:

The actual marriage registers for the parish are on FindMyPast

They were married on 22nd December 1773 by licence

There is no indication of age at all on the register nor anything to say that either was previously married.information?

I would suggest tracking down the marriage bond?

?

?

?
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Just be aware that you won¡¯t find the licence for the marriage.? This was handed to the vicar and most are lost.? However, you may find the Bond and Allegation that was sworn to obtain the licence.? Many of these survive and are with the county archives.? Some are on FMP or Ancestry.? They give information on the ages of the parties, so would be of use in this case.

?

Ruth in a damp, cooler West Sussex.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Hanson via groups.io
Sent: 28 June 2023 18:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

The actual marriage registers for the parish are on FindMyPast

They were married on 22nd December 1773 by licence

There is no indication of age at all on the register nor anything to say that either was previously married.

I would suggest tracking down the licence

?

Regards

John Hanson?

?
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Thanks John. I found the record on fs years ago and refused to believe the ages. Then recently found the marriage record on fmp without ages. I liked that record! But then I checked fs again and decided to send for a copy of the original marr bond. So that proves he was a bachelor and was 60. No clue as to why he married a young bride though.?
I thought he might have got her in the family way but I cannot find a suitable birth.?
I was also amazed to find she remarried? only 3 months after his death.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 22:11 John Hanson via , <john.hanson=[email protected]> wrote:

The actual marriage registers for the parish are on FindMyPast

They were married on 22nd December 1773 by licence

There is no indication of age at all on the register nor anything to say that either was previously married.information?

I would suggest tracking down the marriage bond?

?

?

?
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The actual marriage registers for the parish are on FindMyPast

They were married on 22nd December 1773 by licence

There is no indication of age at all on the register nor anything to say that either was previously married.

I would suggest tracking down the licence

?

Regards

John Hanson FSG

Researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names

Researcher, the Halsted Trust -

Research website -

And my own study of FOSKER

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ken Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 3:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

Margaret,

As usual, don¡¯t rely on ¡°data¡± placed on FS or Ancestry, or any of the others, by individuals.

Check the references and then arrange to view or obtain the original church record and satisfy yourself about what was actually written in 1773.? It would have been unusual for the parish marriage register to record his age, so perhaps the record in question is a marriage allegation for a licence.? If so, you should be able to get both the parish register and the allegation.? The allegation will probably give both of their ages, previous marital status, places of residence, and his occupation.

Ken

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret Shearing
Sent: June 28, 2023 12:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

I have just looked again and cannot find a previous marriage. The family was well established in Kirk Bramwith,? Yorkshire.? He was born in 1713 according to his marriage record on Familysearch.

I have heard that the age difference would? probably not seem such a shock at the time . Nowadays it seems a very big difference.?

?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 07:51 pam beilby via , <libehast=[email protected]> wrote:

Are you really sure he had never been married before. I have people who got married late went down as single and one in particular had 3 previous marriages. Even women used their previous married name as maiden names. So you never know

?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 06:27 Margaret Shearing, <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Hi Ken
I sent? for the marriage bond which shows the ages on fs were correct. It states that he was a bachelor. It says that she lived 'at the? same? place' as William.? I assume? she was working in Kirk Bramwith? but her family lived in a nearby place. Perhaps she was living / working there. But why would he decide to marry at that age? There is no evidence of? a child unless she had a? miscarriage.?


On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 17:47 sdbryant_1 sdbryant_1, <sdbryant_1@...> wrote:
Sometimes the younger one is hired to keep house and then marry.





Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Sometimes the younger one is hired to keep house and then marry.
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Margaret,

I have a similar case about the same time and also in Yorkshire.

Stephen Mainprice, a miller, born before 1715, married about 1735 and his wife died in September 1780 in Keyingham.

His Will, made a year later: 6 Octor 1781; probate 10 Feb 1789, Executor John Mainprice, his son: "...I Stephen Mainprice of Keyingham ... miller being advanc'd in years ..? I give devise and bequeath unto Ann Wilson of Thirtleby ... Widow (my intended Wife) [house, furniture and orchard in Keyingham, and an Annuity for her natural life] and ... to my Son John Mainprice ... for Ever ... my Barn and Stable and my Standheck Garth or fore Garth in Keyingham ... and ... my Lands arable meadows and pasture ... [in Keyingham] ... and ... Reversion of my [house and orchard] after the death of ... Ann Wilson ... ¡°

He noted his advanced years, and died 7 years later.

I have not found the death of the son, John, or any info about a possible marriage.

After a further 6 years, Stephen¡¯s grandson, William, by a different son not mentioned in the Will, married a woman with the same name, Ann Wilson.

?

I wonder whether this was a scheme to pass the farm in the family line but skip a generation and carry the assets through the willing intermediary of this widow, Ann Wilson.

?

Ken

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret Shearing
Sent: June 27, 2023 8:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret

_._,_._,_
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Margaret,

As usual, don¡¯t rely on ¡°data¡± placed on FS or Ancestry, or any of the others, by individuals.

Check the references and then arrange to view or obtain the original church record and satisfy yourself about what was actually written in 1773.? It would have been unusual for the parish marriage register to record his age, so perhaps the record in question is a marriage allegation for a licence.? If so, you should be able to get both the parish register and the allegation.? The allegation will probably give both of their ages, previous marital status, places of residence, and his occupation.

Ken

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret Shearing
Sent: June 28, 2023 12:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yorksgen] Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

?

I have just looked again and cannot find a previous marriage. The family was well established in Kirk Bramwith,? Yorkshire.? He was born in 1713 according to his marriage record on Familysearch.

I have heard that the age difference would? probably not seem such a shock at the time . Nowadays it seems a very big difference.?

?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 07:51 pam beilby via , <libehast=[email protected]> wrote:

Are you really sure he had never been married before. I have people who got married late went down as single and one in particular had 3 previous marriages. Even women used their previous married name as maiden names. So you never know

?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 06:27 Margaret Shearing, <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Re: Phillimore registers Rotherham

 

Thank you Nivard and apologies for the delay in replying. I have been travelling.

I got my information initially from the Genuki site for Wath upon Dearne which give BMD for several churches. There are no marriages in 1690, and just 6 in 1691. Far fewer than in other years. Equally in Rotherham, where the family I was researching had connections, there were fewer marriages in 1690 and 1691. I was puzzled as to why this should have been.

Kind regards
Margaret

On 24 Jun 2023, at 19:52, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@...> wrote:


Hi Margaret

The Phillimores for Rotherham are on Findmypast

I counted

1688 April to March 17 marriages

1689 April to March 18 marriages

1690 April to March 5 marriages

1691 April to March 5 marriages

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

On 24/06/2023 12:43, Margaret ELLIOTT via groups.io wrote:
The Phillimore Register for Rotherham has only one marriage listed between April 1690 and the following March.
Is this correct, and if so does anyone know why this should be?
Regards
Margaret
Switzerland
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

Elizabeth Youle
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello

I have a similar situation. Farmers often didn't marry until they were quite old because they started their working lives living at home with their parents and working for their fathers. They weren't paid a wage, they were given their bed and board and clothing.? The farmer in my tree first worked for his father and then his brother. It wasn't until he was well into his 40s that he inherited the farm.? When he was 49 he married a school teacher from Bristol and he was almost twice her age. He lived in remote Cornwall, how did he meet her? That is still a mystery as she was teaching in Bristol.? They did have one daughter, I met her a few times, she was stone deaf. ? Following her husband's death she returned to Bristol with her daughter having inherited ?2,574 19s - an absolute fortune in 1903. She didn't marry again.

Liz

On 28/06/2023 08:36, Margaret Shearing wrote:

I have just looked again and cannot find a previous marriage. The family was well established in Kirk Bramwith,? Yorkshire.? He was born in 1713 according to his marriage record on Familysearch.
I have heard that the age difference would? probably not seem such a shock at the time . Nowadays it seems a very big difference.?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 07:51 pam beilby via , <libehast=[email protected]> wrote:
Are you really sure he had never been married before. I have people who got married late went down as single and one in particular had 3 previous marriages. Even women used their previous married name as maiden names. So you never know

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 06:27 Margaret Shearing, <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

I have just looked again and cannot find a previous marriage. The family was well established in Kirk Bramwith,? Yorkshire.? He was born in 1713 according to his marriage record on Familysearch.
I have heard that the age difference would? probably not seem such a shock at the time . Nowadays it seems a very big difference.?

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 07:51 pam beilby via , <libehast=[email protected]> wrote:
Are you really sure he had never been married before. I have people who got married late went down as single and one in particular had 3 previous marriages. Even women used their previous married name as maiden names. So you never know

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 06:27 Margaret Shearing, <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Re: Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

Are you really sure he had never been married before. I have people who got married late went down as single and one in particular had 3 previous marriages. Even women used their previous married name as maiden names. So you never know


On Wed, 28 Jun 2023, 06:27 Margaret Shearing, <m.shearing.47@...> wrote:

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Any ideas about age difference in marriage?

 

I wondered if any of you knowledgeable people may be able to explain the big age difference.

My 4x great grandmother Ann WAITE married a bachelor William DUCKITT 6n 1773. She was 19 and he was a farmer aged 60. He died in 1776. I cannot find a child.

Why would he marry a young girl so late in his life when he had never married before? I wonder how involved her father might have been in arranging the marriage knowing that her husband would leave her well provided for. When she remarried 3 months after her husband died, her husband did very well out of it!

Margaret
Re: Hull burial - STRAFFORD

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

It certainly does, and thank you again Jane
Kind regards
Margaret

On 22 Jun 2023, at 13:07, JA Woodall <jane.woodall2016@...> wrote:

Hi Margaret

Sometimes eliminating things helps.?

best wishes

Jane?

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 at 11:41, Margaret ELLIOTT via <m.e.elliott=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you Jane. ? It is very helpful, even if it was by effectively eliminating any possibility of my Ann being buried in Hull! ? The Wath marriage is of my John, and it is he who married Harriet Milner. ? So, as a son was baptised in Scrooby in 1810 and John was married again in 1815, there is a very small window for Ann¡¯s death. ? Ann was born in Wath upon Dearne in 1780, John in Conisborough in 1774, and John must have taken over the mill in Scrooby when the 20 year old only son of a quite distant relative died.

Kind regards
Margaret


On 21 Jun 2023, at 09:09, JA Woodall <jane.woodall2016@...> wrote:

Hi Margaret
There's a baptism of John Strafford - father Richard - October 10 1765 at Holy Trinity Hull.

There's a John Strafford buried Sept 7 1789 at St Mary Lowgate Hull - father Jonathan so not the above John

The only marriage I can find for John Strafford in Hull is Oct 21, 1795 at Holy Trinity but that's to Alice Wilson

John and Alice have a son John baptised Feb 6 at Holy Trinity; he goes on to marry Mary Strathard in Holy Trinity July 17, 1823 and then possibly remarries? to Jane Ward, widow in 1831, also at Holy Trinity. His occupation is tanner, and William Strafford was one of the witnesses.?

The only marriage I can find from 1750 onwards (based on Ann being 60 when she died - no evidence just using that as a timeframe) of a John to an Ann is March 7 1799 in Wath on Dearne - she's Ann Crossley of Wath, he's from Scrooby in Nottinghamshire.? They married by licence. Wath is 54 miles from Hull, Scrooby is 17 miles from Wath- just over the border into Nottinghamshire.

In 1815 John Strafford, widower of Sutton upon Lound and Scrooby, Nottinghamshire married Harriet Milner, also widowed, Dec 15 in Scrooby by licence.?

Having said all that - there is a John Strafford, 75 - born 1766 - of independent means, living in Thornton Square, Holy Trinity, Hull with Elizabeth Taylor 40 (born 1801) a straw bonnet maker and her two children George 15 and Hannah 13 - all born in county. Possibly a widowed daughter - and age tallies with? John, son of Richard born in 1765.?

I don't know if that helps or just confuses but hopefully the former!

best wishes

Jane?
Chasing W(h)eldrake/drick - any variation, anytime, any place - particularly Robert married Susanna(h) ?? and settled in Birstall, West Yorkshire in 1708. Where did they come from?!?





On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 22:16, Margaret ELLIOTT via <m.e.elliott=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you for the information.? ?Maybe she was my missing wife, maybe she wasn¡¯t, and maybe I shall never know.? ? ?I guess Church records were not designed with future genealogists in mind.? ?John was a miller, so perhaps could have gone to a port and taken his wife with him.

Kind regards
Margaret

> On 19 Jun 2023, at 23:03, John Hanson via <john.hanson=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Ann
> The actual parish records for Yorkshire apart from the West Riding (and that is slowly appearing) are al on FMP.
> Prior to 1813 and the start of the Rose's registers you are unlikely to find any more information -
> If only she had died 6 months later then you would have know how old she was - but you would not have known that she was the wife of John!
> You win and you lose
> Regards
> John Hanson FSG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Margaret ELLIOTT via
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 2:56 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [yorksgen] Hull burial - STRAFFORD
>
> Ancestry have a burial in Hull on 31/7/1812 of Ann STRAFFORD wife of John.? ?If anyone has access to Hull registers or graveyards I should be very appreciative if they could see if any more information is available, particularly where John and Ann were from.
>
> Kind regards
> Margaret
> Switzerland
>
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