¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io

Re: poem - Pete's Sunflower

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi pam

an interesting piece. Full marks for attempting this difficult form.

here are my comments for what they are worth.


1.

To me, the poem tells of the life of a solid dependable man, whose spirit is in the sunflower he tended, and how it grew out of his efforts, and in a way took on his energy and became him , growing tall and standing for his efforts in a difficult world. If this analysis is correct, then one could give more attention to the difficult world that the man and the sunflower grew up in, and also how the sunflower grew ou t of this challenging environment and won in the end, growing big and string and huge and yellow as the dawn.

?

2.

The half rhymes: line endings ¨Cand or ¨Can.

They don¡¯t jar, but it does mean that he poem loses power. When this occurs, it is almost as though the poem changes gear and mood. I presume you don¡¯t want it to.

This loss of power is especially noticeable at the gather on line 16. It¡¯s as though we are waiting to hear something and then it changes away. Rhymes echo and build mood. If you want this change - Ok, but I suspect you want to keep it tight and controlled.

?

3.

?Line 3 the word ¡®gazed¡¯ is better than the alliterative h¡¯s in the alternative new line 3 proposed.

?

4. It scans beautifully most of the time but slows and jars the reader on line 8 ¡°...companion true to life¡¯s longing...¡¯ hasn¡¯t got the same rhythm as the other middle line in the triplets.

Same is true with line? ...¡¯dignified grace shewed....¡¯

?

µþ³Ü³Ù¡¯? ...laden, reaching up as he dragged down..¡¯ obeys the musicality of the pattern with two short stress at the beginning of the line rather than long stresses which you have written in some places.

?

5. Well done. Let¡¯s have another.

Stuart Larner




@StuartLarner 





On 21/03/2020 07:28, fionadudley2205@... wrote:

Hi everyone,
So, let's give this a go!
Here is a poem I would really appreciate feedback on. It is a villanelle and I'd really like to know what you think and where I could improve it. I have thought of an alternative to line 3 -?

¡¤????????His handsome head hung sad since worlds began.
...but I think I am veering towards the original. What do you think? What about the half rhymes...do they work okay? I'm also wondering if it's clear what it's about...
Any thoughts and comments gratefully received!
Thank you
xx

Pete's Sunflower

?

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man,

traipsing slow burn, as dawn across the floor.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

Gravid with a life full borne. ?His dead pan

dignified grace shewed, all agreed, at core,

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

He bent and furrowed, seed in gentle hand.

Companion true to life¡¯s longing. In awe

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

A full-swelled bloom grew, faith to nature¡¯s plan,

laden, reaching up as he dragged down, for

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

Pete¡¯s body had lain long in graven land

when cumbrous gilt was fain to stoop. No more

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

With autumn sigh, it fell to hoar earth and

scattered seeds as memory dreams before.

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.



?


Re: poem - Pete's Sunflower

 

1.

To me, the poem tells of the life of a solid dependable man, whose spirit is in the sunflower he tended, and how it grew out of his efforts, and in a way took on his energy and became him , growing tall and standing for his efforts in a difficult world. If this analysis is correct, then one could give more attention to the difficult world that the man and the sunflower grew up in, and also how the sunflower grew ou t of this challenging environment and won in the end, growing big and string and huge and yellow as the dawn.

?

2.

The half rhymes: line endings ¨Cand or ¨Can.

They don¡¯t jar, but it does mean that he poem loses power. When this occurs, it is almost as though the poem changes gear and mood. I presume you don¡¯t want it to.

This loss of power is especially noticeable at the gather on line 16. It¡¯s as though we are waiting to hear something and then it changes away. Rhymes echo and build mood. If you want this change - Ok, but I suspect you want to keep it tight and controlled.

?

3.

?Line 3 the word ¡®gazed¡¯ is better than the alliterative h¡¯s in the alternative new line 3 proposed.

?

4. It scans beautifully most of the time but slows and jars the reader on line 8 ¡°...companion true to life¡¯s longing...¡¯ hasn¡¯t got the same rhythm as the other middle line in the triplets.

Same is true with line? ...¡¯dignified grace shewed....¡¯

?

µþ³Ü³Ù¡¯? ...laden, reaching up as he dragged down..¡¯ obeys the musicality of the pattern with two short stress at the beginning of the line rather than long stresses which you have written in some places.

?

5. Well done. Let¡¯s have another.

Stuart Larner


Re: poem - Pete's Sunflower

 

Thanks so much Pam! I kind of felt 'gazed' was better but wasn't sure why - I like the idea of a new angle. For me it just suited Pete better, but I wasn't sure how it sat in a poem! Thank you!?


Re: poem - Pete's Sunflower

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Fiona,

I¡¯m no poet so don¡¯t feel qualified to comment in detail. But, for what it¡¯s worth, the ¨C or at least ¡®a¡¯ ¨C ?meaning was clear to me, and very moving. I prefer the original line 3 (although the alliteration of your alternative reads easily, so close) because 'gazed¡¯ gives an extra dimension; we already have a feeling of hanging - "heavy-burden¡± ¡°bent¡± ¡°dragged down¡±.

As I said, I¡¯m no poet, but I¡¯ve learned something from you already - what a villanelle is - and was interested to note how 10 syllables can take up such varying amounts of space! ?Thank you Fiona.

Pam G

On 21 Mar 2020, at 07:28, fionadudley2205@... wrote:

Hi everyone,
So, let's give this a go!
Here is a poem I would really appreciate feedback on. It is a villanelle and I'd really like to know what you think and where I could improve it. I have thought of an alternative to line 3 -?

¡¤????????His handsome head hung sad since worlds began.
...but I think I am veering towards the original. What do you think? What about the half rhymes...do they work okay? I'm also wondering if it's clear what it's about...
Any thoughts and comments gratefully received!
Thank you
xx

Pete's Sunflower

?

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man,

traipsing slow burn, as dawn across the floor.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

Gravid with a life full borne. ?His dead pan

dignified grace shewed, all agreed, at core,

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

He bent and furrowed, seed in gentle hand.

Companion true to life¡¯s longing. In awe

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

A full-swelled bloom grew, faith to nature¡¯s plan,

laden, reaching up as he dragged down, for

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

Pete¡¯s body had lain long in graven land

when cumbrous gilt was fain to stoop. No more

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

With autumn sigh, it fell to hoar earth and

scattered seeds as memory dreams before.

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.



?


poem - Pete's Sunflower

 

Hi everyone,
So, let's give this a go!
Here is a poem I would really appreciate feedback on. It is a villanelle and I'd really like to know what you think and where I could improve it. I have thought of an alternative to line 3 -?

¡¤????????His handsome head hung sad since worlds began.
...but I think I am veering towards the original. What do you think? What about the half rhymes...do they work okay? I'm also wondering if it's clear what it's about...
Any thoughts and comments gratefully received!
Thank you
xx

Pete's Sunflower

?

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man,

traipsing slow burn, as dawn across the floor.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

Gravid with a life full borne. ?His dead pan

dignified grace shewed, all agreed, at core,

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

He bent and furrowed, seed in gentle hand.

Companion true to life¡¯s longing. In awe

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

A full-swelled bloom grew, faith to nature¡¯s plan,

laden, reaching up as he dragged down, for

he was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

?

Pete¡¯s body had lain long in graven land

when cumbrous gilt was fain to stoop. No more

his handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.

?

With autumn sigh, it fell to hoar earth and

scattered seeds as memory dreams before.

He was a sweet and heavy-burden man.

His handsome head gazed sad since worlds began.



?


Re: Virtual critique group

 

Hi Stuart, (and everyone)

Good point. Not something I had considered.?

Frankly, I don't know if the point Stuart makes is strictly true, but that doesn't matter. I have tightened the visibility of the Group so that Messages are only visible to other Group members.?

Onwards and upwards,

John

John Jackson

"We are the glorious counterbalance to this climate of hate"?
#RNA60








On Friday, 20 March 2020, 10:06:43 GMT, Stuart Larner <slarner@...> wrote:



Hi Pam
thanks to you and John for this.
This is good and I will be active in it. However I would like to point out that it should be a private group? because if you post here then it would constitute a publication if its presence were to be made known outside the group. In those circumstances it would constitute a first publication and it would invalidate any attempts to offer it as unpublished to any future editor elsewhere.?
I hope only the members of the group will be able to? see it.

Also , 2000 words is a better ceiling for fiction otherwise you end up with Flash. Which is good for wiping floors with, but not the soul.

Any depth of crititqueing? is Ok by me, as long as it is gentle and honest and constructive. Strengths, and areas for development.



Stuart Larner
ps? is

correct right as an email address?it bounces from my desk.


@StuartLarner 





On 19/03/2020 22:41, Pam Hanley wrote:
Dear All
Thank you for expressing interest in joining this group. John Jackson has very kindly set up a Group for us to post to, and by the weekend I will send you all invitations to enable you to join.

Eleven people have "signed up", which seems a pretty healthy (and let's hope we remain that way!) number. Once we get going, if it's a success and the situation looks like carrying on for some time, I'll update the wider group on what we're doing.

I think we need to set some ground rules to help the Group to operate smoothly. Here are my suggestions to get the ball rolling:

  • length of work (about 1000 words or up to 3 poems?)
  • submit on an ad hoc basis rather than on a particular day of the week to avoid "bunching"?
  • response time for comments (a week?)
  • circulate responses to the group rather than the author only as we do on manuscript evenings? Or leave that to the author to specify when they post?
  • everyone to attempt to respond to each item posted, even if it's to explain they don't have time to critique it - otherwise we might risk authors sending work into an unresponsive black hole, which wouldn't be good for the creative soul
  • guidance about how to critique kindly and constructively (I'm happy to hunt for some advice unless someone already has a short document we can circulate)
If you have any additions or amendments to suggest, please let me know then I'll post a final list to the Group when it's all set up.

Thanks again to John for his help.
Best wishes
Pam