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Re: Spindle control
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Henrik: ? I have a 1.5hp drive that takes 120VAC single phase and puts out 240VAC 3-phase. It is an Eaton Moeller MMX11AA4D8F0-0. ? Andy Wander From:
mach1mach2cnc@... [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@...] ? ? Guys, Like I said (wrote) I'm sure there are special types available - and there is. But those "step-up" types from?Automation Direct is only available for ver small motors (1/4 and 1/2HP). ? If anyone have?a link or model number for a VFD taking 230VAC single phase input and outputting 400VAC Three pahse capable of driving a 2kW motor I'd love to know about it. ? Jeff, A VFD is a switch mode type supply yes, but I'll stick to my original statement. "Step-up" types may be available but they are not the norm. You'd need some pretty beefy inuctors/transformers?for a multi kilowatt step-up converter. ? I've comissioned drives from ABB, Lenze, Omron, Danfoss and a few other brands, none have been able to output a voltage higher than the input. That doesn't mean I'm saying drives than can doesn't exist, I'm saying it's not the norm. You can call it nonsense if you like. Please show me a couple of >1kW drives that does. ? /Henrik. ? 15 mars 2015, stevesng@... [mach1mach2cnc]
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Re: Spindle control
Guys, Like I said (wrote) I'm sure there are special types available - and there is. But those "step-up" types from?Automation Direct is only available for ver small motors (1/4 and 1/2HP). If anyone have?a link or model number for a VFD taking 230VAC single phase input and outputting 400VAC Three pahse capable of driving a 2kW motor I'd love to know about it. Jeff, A VFD is a switch mode type supply yes, but I'll stick to my original statement. "Step-up" types may be available but they are not the norm. You'd need some pretty beefy inuctors/transformers?for a multi kilowatt step-up converter. I've comissioned drives from ABB, Lenze, Omron, Danfoss and a few other brands, none have been able to output a voltage higher than the input. That doesn't mean I'm saying drives than can doesn't exist, I'm saying it's not the norm. You can call it nonsense if you like. Please show me a couple of >1kW drives that does. /Henrik. 15 mars 2015, stevesng@... [mach1mach2cnc] skrev:
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Re: Spindle control
If you feed the VFD 120VAC there's no way it'll output more than 120VAC Nonsense¡There loads of VFDs that take 120V and output 240V. VFDs are a switch type power supply, they can be made to increase or decrease the input voltage to the desired output voltage, just like any other switch type power supply. It is all in the design. Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com From: mach1mach2cnc@... [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@...] Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:01 PM To: mach1mach2cnc@... Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Spindle control Hi, If you feed the VFD 120VAC there's no way it'll output more than 120VAC. There might be special versions available that is capable of stepping up the voltage but I've personally never run across one. The VFD takes the AC input and rectifes it, then it generates three pahse sine(ish) output by PWM. It can't output a voltage higher than what's at the input. For measuring the output with a DMM, read the following app note from FLUKE: IF you decide to measure the VFD output with a scope then please be VERY (VERY!) careful. Ideally you want a high voltage differential probe for doing such measurements. /Henrik. 15 mars 2015, Spencer Chase lists@... [mach1mach2cnc] <mach1mach2cnc@...> skrev: Jeremy, I figured there was little difference. Just mentioned that the main point of the article was setting the min voltage or whatever to be sure the fan came on, which is not necessary with the water cooled motor. I am trying to get the max power from the motor and have conflicting information re the 110 volt input VFD. One place asys it outputs 220 volts three phase and another (the nameplate) says it puts out 110 volts three phase. I think there may be some extra parameters or different settings for the 110 volt input inverter but there does not seems to be a manual for it nor is it included in the 220/330 volt manual. the motor is working very well, just want to make it better. if the thing stalls it destroys expensive bits. i don't want to reduce feed speeds to a crawl just to prevent this. maple is not the easiest thing to route. 90% might cut at one speed and then another piece will have crazy hard grain. i'm sure i'll break a few more cutters before i get this right. On 3/15/2015 6:24 AM, jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote: Spencer There is absolutely no difference between the air cooled version and the water cooled version of the spindle except that you need to connect an external water pump and water supply to the water cooled variety. This is completely independant of the the VFD control for that spindle and has zero bearing on the VFD's PD settings for the spindle. That whole thread is to do with Huanyang VFDs and their associated spindle requirements. -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Spindle control
Hi, If you feed the VFD 120VAC there's no way it'll output more than 120VAC. There might be special versions available that is capable of stepping up the voltage but I've personally never run across one. The VFD takes the AC input and rectifes it, then it generates three pahse sine(ish) output by PWM. It can't output a voltage higher than what's at the input. For measuring the output with a DMM, read the following app note from FLUKE: IF you decide to measure the VFD output with a scope then please be VERY (VERY!) careful. Ideally you want a high voltage differential probe for doing such measurements. /Henrik. 15 mars 2015, Spencer Chase lists@... [mach1mach2cnc] skrev:
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer Chase
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJeremy,I figured there was little difference. Just mentioned that the main point of the article was setting the min voltage or whatever to be sure the fan came on, which is not necessary with the water cooled motor. I am trying to get the max power from the motor and have conflicting information re the 110 volt input VFD. One place asys it outputs 220 volts three phase and another (the nameplate) says it puts out 110 volts three phase. I think there may be some extra parameters or different settings for the 110 volt input inverter but there does not seems to be a manual for it nor is it included in the 220/330 volt manual. the motor is working very well, just want to make it better. if the thing stalls it destroys expensive bits. i don't want to reduce feed speeds to a crawl just to prevent this. maple is not the easiest thing to route. 90% might cut at one speed and then another piece will have crazy hard grain. i'm sure i'll break a few more cutters before i get this right. On 3/15/2015 6:24 AM,
jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
Your Fluke true RMS meter may indeed be able to read the voltage
correctly. The significant feature is the "true RMS" rating. Check your Fluke manual to see what the maximum frequency range for accurate true RMS readings is and compare that to the "carrier frequency" setting of your VD. |
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer Chase
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI'll check with a scope. I thought the 3 phase was AC so just used my Fluke true RMS meter on AC and 129 volts is what I got. i'll make a voltage divider and see what the scope says. or is there just a conversion factor to apply when using an RMS AC meter to measure this sort of pulsed DC? i don't want to burn up my scope. a ten to one voltage divider should do it but ???if i just had a manual specifically for the inverter it would be best but there does not seem to be one. i will call automation tech on monday maybe they have one. on the nameplate it has a model number that is not listed in the regular manual and it says 110 volt single or 3 phase input and suggests that the output is 110 volt three phase but the listing online for this inverter in a package with a 220 volt motor says that the output is 220 volt three phase. PD041 looks like it might be useful? the manual calls it "carrier frequency" and it ranges from 100 hz to 20khz? it is suggested that a compromise between electrical noise and power can be made with this setting. they caution about changing it is small increments. does a higher carrier frequency allow for more power? is the heating of the inverter or the motor or both that are of concern with higher frequencies? On 3/15/2015 5:06 AM, Ron Ginger
ronginger@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer
There is absolutely no difference between the air cooled version and the water cooled version of the spindle except that you need to connect an external water pump and water supply to the water cooled variety. This is completely independant of the the VFD control for that spindle and has zero bearing on the VFD's PD settings for the spindle. That whole thread is to do with Huanyang VFDs and their associated spindle requirements. |
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Re: Spindle control
Inverters or VFDs output a pulsed DC voltage. It would require an oscilloscope to get an accurate voltage measurement, a normal voltmeter or multimeter will not show an accurate voltage.
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I do not know the model referred to here, but there are many VFDs that will use 120v input and drive 220 volt motors. ron ginger On 3/15/2015 4:32 AM, mach1mach2cnc@... wrote:
i set max voltage at 220 (or even higher) in the parameter setup but |
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer Chase
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI did find the first link somewhat useful but I have a water cooled motor and an inverter that does not show up in the manual. I might have made a mistake in what i bought. I was using a 110 to 220 volt transformer and thought i could get rid of it if i bought the 110volt input inverter that it seemed should put out 220 volts for a 220 volt motor. There is a package on Auto Tech's site that has a 1500 watt motor and a 110 volt input inverter. The motor is 220 volt so I thought it was no problem to get the smaller motor (no room for the bigger one) as they are both 229 volt motors.The thing works but it seems a little weaker than i really want and will probably have to upgrade to the 1500 watt motor when i have use of my shop to make a mount for it. i set max voltage at 220 (or even higher) in the parameter setup but when i measure each phase it is only 129 volts. Does anyone know if the 110 volt input inverter is supposed to put out the full 220 volts? There is no documentation for the 110 volt input inverter specifically so maybe there are additional parameters that are not mentioned in the manual for the 220 volt versions. If i ever figure this out i will start on a manual that attempts to cover the basics. I tried to read the two additional links you provided. Did not find any more info in the second one and the first one produced an error that i do not have sufficient privileges to access the page. On 3/14/2015 4:06 PM,
jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
Hi Spencer
That would be an excellent project that would get many readers. , had much information and also a couple of guides in it. He didn't seem to find it very useful. You are correct tht the existing manual is not very user friendly and it is little wonder that so many people need extra help and support. I am certain that a well written manual of the sort you describe would be warmly received by many people. See also this m written by seafurymike, and this more written by myself. ---In mach1mach2cnc@..., <lists@...> wrote :
I got my Huanyang 110 volt input VFD working with the 800 watt water
cooled motor from Automation Tech. The motor is very nice looking
and very quiet. I checked all the basic parameters to make sure
nothing was dangerously wrong. Set up functions to do basically what
the old motor did. Disabled reverse, set to use switch for forward.
Changed ramp time to .5 seconds and did a few other things. The
manual does have all the necessary information spread throughout in
a not very well presented manner. I am used to manuals that have
basic setup first and that tell you things like button press
sequences to get things working. Also a big fan of reference in a
manual matching what is in the device. None of that with this
manual. Still I managed to get it working. If there is interest (unless it was done already) i might write a simple quick start guide for these inverters. An explanation of the basic concepts such as multifunction ins and outs and step by step instructions for programming and also what the parameters really mean in terms of actual use instead of theoretical (especially when terms do not match from one place to another) would also be useful. It would be good to have others read what i write to make sure i understand it and that it it not as confusing as the original manual. |
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer Chase
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI got my Huanyang 110 volt input VFD working with the 800 watt water cooled motor from Automation Tech. The motor is very nice looking and very quiet. I checked all the basic parameters to make sure nothing was dangerously wrong. Set up functions to do basically what the old motor did. Disabled reverse, set to use switch for forward. Changed ramp time to .5 seconds and did a few other things. The manual does have all the necessary information spread throughout in a not very well presented manner. I am used to manuals that have basic setup first and that tell you things like button press sequences to get things working. Also a big fan of reference in a manual matching what is in the device. None of that with this manual. Still I managed to get it working.If there is interest (unless it was done already) i might write a simple quick start guide for these inverters. An explanation of the basic concepts such as multifunction ins and outs and step by step instructions for programming and also what the parameters really mean in terms of actual use instead of theoretical (especially when terms do not match from one place to another) would also be useful. It would be good to have others read what i write to make sure i understand it and that it it not as confusing as the original manual. On 3/14/2015 6:33 AM, Stephen Muscato
elko_dude@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
I have my Huanyang running under Mach3 control thru the RS485 port and a plugin for Mach. Steve From: "'ralph.tuttle' ralph.tuttle@... [mach1mach2cnc]" To: mach1mach2cnc@... Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Spindle control Setting up the VFD may be problematic. It will not hurt the motor for short spins. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Spencer Chase lists@... [mach1mach2cnc]" Date: 03/13/2015 6:43 PM (GMT-06:00) To: mach1mach2cnc@... Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Spindle control ?
i got my motor and had the mill head bored to accept it. all is
ready to test. i have the Huanyang 110 volt inverter that came with
the instructions for the 220 volt input version. should not be much
difference but i am still a little hesitant to hook it up and
destroy things. i have an 800 watt motor, water cooled. any recommendations on setting that might be critical? i did get a manual but it is very difficult to digest. it sort of looks like factory defaults might be OK. the manual has all the details but no quick start guide. is there any risk in running it for a minute or two without cooling? i would like to bench test it before hooking up the pump and water supply. On 3/10/2015 3:53 PM,
jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
ralph.tuttle
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýSetting up the VFD may be problematic. It will not hurt the motor for short spins. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "Spencer Chase lists@... [mach1mach2cnc]" <mach1mach2cnc@...> Date: 03/13/2015 6:43 PM (GMT-06:00) To: mach1mach2cnc@... Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Spindle control ?
i got my motor and had the mill head bored to accept it. all is
ready to test. i have the Huanyang 110 volt inverter that came with
the instructions for the 220 volt input version. should not be much
difference but i am still a little hesitant to hook it up and
destroy things. i have an 800 watt motor, water cooled. On 3/10/2015 3:53 PM,
jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Spindle control
Spencer Chase
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýi got my motor and had the mill head bored to accept it. all is ready to test. i have the Huanyang 110 volt inverter that came with the instructions for the 220 volt input version. should not be much difference but i am still a little hesitant to hook it up and destroy things. i have an 800 watt motor, water cooled.any recommendations on setting that might be critical? i did get a manual but it is very difficult to digest. it sort of looks like factory defaults might be OK. the manual has all the details but no quick start guide. is there any risk in running it for a minute or two without cooling? i would like to bench test it before hooking up the pump and water supply. On 3/10/2015 3:53 PM,
jeremywillson@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
? -- Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550-Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 |
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Re: Where are we in Mach 4
Fantastic!
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Thanks for the update PS: Probe Scripts are getting worked on today and should have everything close to done other then 3D probing of an area.. That will come later. Brian On 3/11/2015 1:23 PM, 'Andy Wander' ohawiseguyeh@... [mach1mach2cnc] wrote:
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Re: Where are we in Mach 4
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI found that disabling the Simulator Plugin solved this problem. ? Andy Wander From: Andy Wander
[mailto:ohawiseguyeh@...] ? So I went a little further in the configuration(set up my pins/signals in the ESS), shut down and reran Mach4, and now, when I attempt to get back into the ESS Plugin configuration, it highlights the "Configure" button and then just sits there. ? If I then close the Plugin Config window, and close Mach4, the Mach4GUI process stays up. ? Looks like this PC may be more of a help than we thought....... ? Andy Wander From:
mach1mach2cnc@... [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@...] ? ? Thank you Andy! On 3/10/2015 9:51 PM, 'Andy Wander' ohawiseguyeh@... [mach1mach2cnc]
wrote:
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Ron Ginger