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Re: JAWS Locking up when I open some messages
On Mon, Feb 3, 2025 at 09:54 PM, Katrina Anderson wrote:
Why wasn't the reading pane set to "off," after I chose to have the view in the In Box applied to other folders? -
Because, as I noted earlier, the reading pane setting, unlike the AutoPreview Setting, has no connection whatsoever to an individual mailbox.
?
The reading pane is either off or on, and if on, you pick the position it inhabits.? But if it's on, it's on for all mailboxes, and if it's off it's off.
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Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: JAWS Locking up when I open some messages
Really? Good for you. Sadly, not any help here. I discovered the folder where I stored the troublesome emails (shared with JAWS Support) had the reading pane set to "bottom." I of course changed it to "off," but that brings up a question or two. Why wasn't the reading pane set to "off," after I chose to have the view in the In Box applied to other folders? Perhaps it takes a while to apply the view to the numerous folders I have in that account; maybe I need to close/open Outlook to apply the view elsewhere. Lastly, when going through the process to apply the view to other folders, I ensured the desired account was checked, as well as subfolders. The interesting thing is as I arrowed down through the numerous subfolders of the account, none of them are checked. Again, perhaps that is because they are only checked after the process has finished, which could take time. Thoughts from anybody welcome.
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Katrina -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 8:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I always thought I had the reading pane turned off, but somehow it got changed to right. When I turned it off, it seemed to correct the lag. Andy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 9:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Oh my goodness! Thanks for asking about the reading/preview pane! I almost replied with, "Yep, always keep it off," but then I checked to be certain. For whatever reason, the reading pane had changed to "bottom." The preview pane was still off though. I turned the reading pane back to "off," and there is no longer a silent lag when arrowing past the Braille Forum message. So, at least one thing has been resolved. I actually check such view settings regularly, and feel like the last time was not long ago. Regardless, I should have thought to check the reading pane when the newest lagging issue started. So weird! Any thoughts about what would have caused an automatic change of a view setting? Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard Turner via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 11:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages The agent I dealt with back then was using Outlook MS365. It was the huge lag or refusal to speak when opening messages with lots of graphics, tables, etc. So, much of what you are describing. As for arrowing down and finding that lag, is your reading/preview pane on? I try to keep that off because it is loading the message in the background and in the olden days, that was opening oneself up to malicious activity. I don't even know where to check that right now. I will check later as I am getting ready to head out for much of the day. Thanks for the case numbers. I'm tempted to refer to all of them... I have next to no respect for Jaws support. Richard, USA, "When you come to the edge of all the light you know and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen: there will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught how to fly." -- Barbara J. Winter. My web site: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 8:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Richard, Could you elaborate about what could not be duplicated? Was testing done on a similar system to yours, and with Outlook? To be sure, since I've described multiple issues with Outlook, Was the issue involving serious lag when certain messages are opened? I am guessing so, since that is the focus of this thread, but just checking. I actually have 3 case numbers, which I will share below. Besides the original message, which is what I am guessing others should reference, two additional case numbers were created when I forwarded two separate email messages (one from Kroger and another from Goodreads). Again, I wish he had communicated better, advising me exactly how to share the requested messages. Forwarding messages was all I knew, and I did not know to ask if there was another method. When I forwarded the two troublesome messages, I included the original case number, which resulted in those threads having multiple case numbers in the subject line. The case numbers are: Original Case #: 00749013 Kroger Forwarded Message Case #: 00750511 Goodreads Forwarded Message Case #: 00750531 To be clear, the agent did not say the case is with the development team; I guess that was my hopeful assumption. Rather, on Friday, January 31, 2025, the agent replied to a thread containing the forwarded Kroger message, Case #: 00750511. That number, and the case # 00749013 (for my original message) is in the subject line. He wrote that he would pass the attached files, containing the troublesome messages, to the development team. Unfortunately, this particular agent doesn't communicate very well. Friday, I've specifically asked him what "report" was found that connects to my issues. I explained that since he seems to have been focused on issue 1 (and not issue 2 involving Outlook locking up and not sending/receiving mail), my guess is the report concerned the serious lag when opening certain messages; no response thus far. There were several messages between us Friday; the last was from me late Friday, so the ball is in his court. I will continue to ask about unanswered questions, and request he identify what specific case number could be used by others when reporting similar problems. FYI, Starting yesterday, or maybe Friday, a new issue has started. As I arrow down through the list of messages, after a particular message (related to the ACB Braille Forum), JAWS goes silent and I am forced to wait as previously described. JAWS of course starts functioning again and all is good. I've not opened the Braille Forum message yet; it will be interesting to do so, and see if that type of behavior happens again after the message is deleted/moved. Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard Turner via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 10:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Katrina, Do you have a case number we could reference? I've gone through this several times with FS support, and while one of the support agents I know to be very good, I basically ended up with they cannot duplicate it. This was a couple years ago now. I'm not having this issue quite as much, but it would be good to tie it to your case when it happens again and I send an attached message. If not, perhaps the date when their support agent told you it is now with the development team? Thanks, Richard, USA, "When you come to the edge of all the light you know and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen: there will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught how to fly." -- Barbara J. Winter. My web site: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 7:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Again, thank you for sharing needed findings. Have you reported these Outlook related issues to Microsoft? Based on my experience, not sure it would help to do so, but maybe... Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Konnie Ellis via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 4:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I have been experiencing the same issue using NVDA for about the past year. I do use Outlook classic. I noticed that when I first got this new PC a few months ago, the type of messages where this normally happens, stopped happening. But as the weeks went by, it's now back to the same old, same old. Very frustrating. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 12:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages A bit of an update (or follow up) for those experiencing a serious lag when opening certain messages in Outlook. I don¡¯t know why I referred to Outlook as locking up in the subject line; it is probably because I use that phrase in regards to a different Outlook issue, which I have a bit of update for¡will address it in a different thread. I filed a case with JAWS Support a week to 10 days ago regarding the serious lag in performance (JAWS goes silent and it is like the screen is frozen) when certain messages (lengthy and/or what I believe is referred to as HTML content (graphics, tables, links, photos, etc.) Unfortunately, the agent didn¡¯t always clearly communicate, and apparently they are very busy there. He asked me to send some examples of messages that are troublesome; I did a week ago. It took him almost a week to follow up, and his response was that the problem could not be replicated. The end¡no further comment. I wrote back as tactfully as possible, saying it is good he doesn¡¯t have the problem, but the fact is I and others are having the problem, etc. He responded by saying something like, I think you are using Outlook; I was not, and that might be why I couldn¡¯t replicate the sluggishness. Seriously? The fact I am accessing email via Outlook is an extremely pertinent detail (emphasized clearly in my original message and replies); how was he not sure about that¡whatever. I wrote back emphasizing the importance of Outlook in regards to this matter. I have no evidence that the lag in JAWS performance happens when accessing email via other means. I reiterated the lag for sure happens with JAWS 2024 and 2025¡not sure about 2023, and with Narrator; I do not use NVDA. For those who might care, I will mention here that Alt-Tab doesn¡¯t work¡JAWS is totally silent and focus remains on what I assume is the body of the message as it attempts to open. I cannot do anything; not even escape out of the message or close Outlook. The other suggestions on this group have been tried, but again I am stuck, and am forced to wait until JAWS speaks and I¡¯m permitted to take action (e.g. read the message, Alt-Tab, close the message, etc.) To be clear, I encounter messages, like Sam¡¯s Club marketing stuff, that causes JAWS to pause for a few seconds; probably 3-4 seconds. The silence/delay I¡¯m dealing with is way more extreme (e.g. ¡°Happy Birthday¡± could be sung a minimum of two, and probably three, or more times before JAWS speaks again and/or I can take action)¡editing/replying to these messages is even more annoying as the silences happen over and over again. I determined if I erase the original content, there is no delay, but when forwarding messages, you need the content to remain. The agent then asked again about Outlook add-ins, which he asked, and I answered, earlier in the thread of messages between he/me¡what the heck! The agent obviously is not referencing prior messages. I replied with kindness/respect, but said something that spurred the agent into action; he did some research, sent numerous messages, etc., after that. It was at that point when he finally shared that there was at least one other report about this issue, and it is with the development team. I then learned that the agent forgot to tell me how to send the messages (don¡¯t forward but save/attach files). I had forwarded them, and he accessed them via a program that isn¡¯t Outlook¡what a waste of time! I am not in his shoes, have never done his job, etc., so I am trying to go easy on the agent. After a week of waiting/poor communication, the good news is the matter has finally been passed onto the development team for investigation. I was asked to urge others who share the problem to contact JAWS Support. You could call to report, or send an email. The latter is probably best, so you can share examples of messages that require a significant wait before JAWS speaks again. In case it helps, Following are steps to attach the troublesome messages. 1. Select the message in the Microsoft Outlook inbox. 2. Press Alt+F to open the File drop down menu. 3. Choose Save As from the menu. 4. Save the file in a location where it can easily be found. The file should have the name of the email's subject line in your inbox, and will have a .msg extension. 5. Start an email addressed to support@... <mailto:support@...> , fill in the subject line, and add appropriate comments/information in the body of the message. I recommend your comments alert the reader to look for attached files. 6. Use your preferred method to insert/attach the desired saved files. 7. Send the message. Whether you call or email, provide information about your system (OS, Outlook version, JAWS version and Serial Number, etc.) Provide information like when the problem started, can the problem be traced to a recent JAWS update or change in Outlook, etc. I recommend you mention that others have reported the same, and those reports were passed onto the development team, and ask could your report be passed on as well. Katrina From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of chaltain@... via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I see this with JAWS, Narrator and NVDA. Alt-tabbing away or hitting control+end don¡¯t seem to be any better for me than just waiting. This control+has been a round for years. I think FS addressed it a while ago, but that only made it marginally better, and I agree, it¡¯s gotten worse lately. IMHO, there¡¯s an issue in the AT layer for either Windows or Outlook. FS would know best and should be able to work with Microsoft if needed. BTW, I don¡¯t have this problem with voiceOver on IOS, so sometimes, I¡¯ll wait to open up such an email until I¡¯m on my phone. -- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>¡Â Chaltain at Outlook, USA From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Wayne23 via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:00 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Something else that can work is pressing control+end to go to the bottom of the email and working your way up. | Wayne Senior, Dewsbury, England On Tuesday, 14 January 2025 at 22:20:32 GMT, Mr. Ed via groups.io < <mailto:pinky14@...> pinky14@...> wrote: Hi, I have tab away from the email then back again and Jaws reads again. Mr. Ed From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Susan Thompson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 3:09 AM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages HI all, I¡¯ve particularly noticed this recently ¨C it seems like since recent versions of JAWS 2025. It is also hard as it is to find a pattern. but acknowledging Brian¡¯s valid comment, I¡¯ve not tried it with NVDA or Narrator, but it seems so intermittent that if I go to one when it happens, I¡¯m not sure it would replicate and I don¡¯t want to have to use those screen readers very long to see if it might happen. I realize this is possibly at the risk of not solving the problem, But I might see if when it happens it is a more complex email structure, I didn¡¯t think of that. Regards Susan From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:09 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages This has been an ongoing problem (that I and numerous others have experienced) for months/years. I¡¯ve tried many things to resolve the problem, but to no avail. Unsure if I previously reported the issue to Vispero, I decided to do it now¡just sent a report about the frequent silences after opening certain messages in Outlook, and also inquired about Outlook locking up/freezing; typically requiring the program to be removed from the Task Manager. JAWS may not have anything to do with it, but couldn¡¯t hurt to ask. Katrina From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steven Hicks via groups.io Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 11:17 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I Have experienced this as well, seemingly on long messages with lots of content, eventually it does come back though. From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io Sent: 14 January 2025 04:16 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Have you had the same issue when using either NVDA or Narrator for the same messages? That is a first pass diagnostic to decide whether the fault lies with the JAWS screen reader versus Outlook 365. If you can't replicate with a different screen reader (or even if you can) this needs to be reported to Vispero/FS Support. They'd need to know if it's only happening with JAWS, or with JAWS and any other screen reader or screen readers. -- Brian ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- | Regards, Wayne Senior Latest stable versions of NVDA, JAWS and Narrator. |
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New windows esu (extended support) info
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHello guys,
Hope you are all doing well. This is important information. Clearly, for businesses that are going down the extended support route, factoring in multiple if not tons of windows 10 devices, the costs are clearly going to bight very hard. So if you can, please upgrade to win 11 while you have the chance. Of course if you have a company laptop or something don't do it secretly as that's immoral and will get you into trouble, but if you can, push your company to at least upgrade the machines you use to win 11, since it looks like the accessibility companies will focus more on win 11 and win 12 when that comes out, if it does come out in 2027 if indeed the claims are true. Check out this link.
Best regards, Muhammad. |
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Re: One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in
Leo Bado
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYes, up to now I believe that the rate won¡¯t be increase for Costa Rican consumer users since the e-mail only indicated the Copilot benefits implemented for my personal plan, an nothing about increasing the price. I will keep the list updated, but as I explained few weeks ago, this wouldn¡¯t be the first time they change or keep the subscription fee only for Costa Rica. Last time it happened a couple of years ago, when they lower the cost and they didn¡¯t do it for other Latin American countries. I know this first-hand because I speak with folks from many countries. ? As for double checking on the Microsoft personal account website, yes, I¡¯m continuously doing it every other day to see any update, but up to now, I will probably pay the same although my credits were refilled on February 1st. ? Cheers, Leo Bado. ? "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." Pravin Lal. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Monday, February 3, 2025 9:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in ? Leo, ? That is a bit of a shock.? You're the first M365 User I've heard from, worldwide, that did not have the new rate show.? I would be curious what you find if you go to your Microsoft Account page, subscriptions pane: ?? ? Mine has even been updated since I first checked to make the new rate appear in far larger, boldface type.? In my specific case, it reads: Recurring billing on $129.99?Every year?plus applicable taxes ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I'm intentionally not downgrading until it's right up to the wire just to see if I get email communications as the renewal date draws near telling me that if I want to keep the services I currently have I should sign up for Classic service level. ? The change was announced by Microsoft to be worldwide, which is why this is even more surprising. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in
Leo,
?
That is a bit of a shock.? You're the first M365 User I've heard from, worldwide, that did not have the new rate show.? I would be curious what you find if you go to your Microsoft Account page, subscriptions pane: ??
?
Mine has even been updated since I first checked to make the new rate appear in far larger, boldface type.? In my specific case, it reads:
Recurring billing on
$129.99?Every year?plus applicable taxes
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
I'm intentionally not downgrading until it's right up to the wire just to see if I get email communications as the renewal date draws near telling me that if I want to keep the services I currently have I should sign up for Classic service level.
?
The change was announced by Microsoft to be worldwide, which is why this is even more surprising.
--
Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in
Leo Bado
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHonestly, I believe that when it comes to rising the price, Microsoft is handling things different for different plans, users, and regions. I got the same e-mail around the same day you did, but in my case it didn¡¯t announce any increase in my monthly subscription plan, and the billing info still indicates the same price. ? Cheers, Leo Bado. ? "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." Pravin Lal. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Linda Coccovizzo via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 7:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in ? Interesting. Microsoft sent me an email on the 19th of January, saying that my renewal would be due on the 18th of February. I guess if someone renewed in December, maybe they get the better part of the year with the 60 Copilot credits a month for free? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io ? I just got a notification in OneDrive on Android saying that the price increase if you don't downgrade to Classic service level will be at your next renewal date after February 20, 2025. ? So those with a renewal date before that date will have a bit over a full year to play with the Copilot enabled M365. ? You can do the downgrade earlier, but it kicks in at your renewal date. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýInteresting. Microsoft sent me an email on the 19th of January, saying that my renewal would be due on the 18th of February. I guess if someone renewed in December, maybe they get the better part of the year with the 60 Copilot credits a month for free? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2025 2:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [M365-Accessibility] One more bit of clarification on when the new Copilot M365 Rate will kick in ? I just got a notification in OneDrive on Android saying that the price increase if you don't downgrade to Classic service level will be at your next renewal date after February 20, 2025. ? So those with a renewal date before that date will have a bit over a full year to play with the Copilot enabled M365. ? You can do the downgrade earlier, but it kicks in at your renewal date. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: JAWS Locking up when I open some messages
I always thought I had the reading pane turned off, but somehow it got changed to right. When I turned it off, it seemed to correct the lag.
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Andy -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 9:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Oh my goodness! Thanks for asking about the reading/preview pane! I almost replied with, "Yep, always keep it off," but then I checked to be certain. For whatever reason, the reading pane had changed to "bottom." The preview pane was still off though. I turned the reading pane back to "off," and there is no longer a silent lag when arrowing past the Braille Forum message. So, at least one thing has been resolved. I actually check such view settings regularly, and feel like the last time was not long ago. Regardless, I should have thought to check the reading pane when the newest lagging issue started. So weird! Any thoughts about what would have caused an automatic change of a view setting? Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard Turner via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 11:23 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages The agent I dealt with back then was using Outlook MS365. It was the huge lag or refusal to speak when opening messages with lots of graphics, tables, etc. So, much of what you are describing. As for arrowing down and finding that lag, is your reading/preview pane on? I try to keep that off because it is loading the message in the background and in the olden days, that was opening oneself up to malicious activity. I don't even know where to check that right now. I will check later as I am getting ready to head out for much of the day. Thanks for the case numbers. I'm tempted to refer to all of them... I have next to no respect for Jaws support. Richard, USA, "When you come to the edge of all the light you know and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen: there will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught how to fly." -- Barbara J. Winter. My web site: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 8:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Richard, Could you elaborate about what could not be duplicated? Was testing done on a similar system to yours, and with Outlook? To be sure, since I've described multiple issues with Outlook, Was the issue involving serious lag when certain messages are opened? I am guessing so, since that is the focus of this thread, but just checking. I actually have 3 case numbers, which I will share below. Besides the original message, which is what I am guessing others should reference, two additional case numbers were created when I forwarded two separate email messages (one from Kroger and another from Goodreads). Again, I wish he had communicated better, advising me exactly how to share the requested messages. Forwarding messages was all I knew, and I did not know to ask if there was another method. When I forwarded the two troublesome messages, I included the original case number, which resulted in those threads having multiple case numbers in the subject line. The case numbers are: Original Case #: 00749013 Kroger Forwarded Message Case #: 00750511 Goodreads Forwarded Message Case #: 00750531 To be clear, the agent did not say the case is with the development team; I guess that was my hopeful assumption. Rather, on Friday, January 31, 2025, the agent replied to a thread containing the forwarded Kroger message, Case #: 00750511. That number, and the case # 00749013 (for my original message) is in the subject line. He wrote that he would pass the attached files, containing the troublesome messages, to the development team. Unfortunately, this particular agent doesn't communicate very well. Friday, I've specifically asked him what "report" was found that connects to my issues. I explained that since he seems to have been focused on issue 1 (and not issue 2 involving Outlook locking up and not sending/receiving mail), my guess is the report concerned the serious lag when opening certain messages; no response thus far. There were several messages between us Friday; the last was from me late Friday, so the ball is in his court. I will continue to ask about unanswered questions, and request he identify what specific case number could be used by others when reporting similar problems. FYI, Starting yesterday, or maybe Friday, a new issue has started. As I arrow down through the list of messages, after a particular message (related to the ACB Braille Forum), JAWS goes silent and I am forced to wait as previously described. JAWS of course starts functioning again and all is good. I've not opened the Braille Forum message yet; it will be interesting to do so, and see if that type of behavior happens again after the message is deleted/moved. Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard Turner via groups.io Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 10:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Katrina, Do you have a case number we could reference? I've gone through this several times with FS support, and while one of the support agents I know to be very good, I basically ended up with they cannot duplicate it. This was a couple years ago now. I'm not having this issue quite as much, but it would be good to tie it to your case when it happens again and I send an attached message. If not, perhaps the date when their support agent told you it is now with the development team? Thanks, Richard, USA, "When you come to the edge of all the light you know and are about to step off into the darkness of the unknown, faith is knowing one of two things will happen: there will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught how to fly." -- Barbara J. Winter. My web site: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 7:04 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Again, thank you for sharing needed findings. Have you reported these Outlook related issues to Microsoft? Based on my experience, not sure it would help to do so, but maybe... Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Konnie Ellis via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 4:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I have been experiencing the same issue using NVDA for about the past year. I do use Outlook classic. I noticed that when I first got this new PC a few months ago, the type of messages where this normally happens, stopped happening. But as the weeks went by, it's now back to the same old, same old. Very frustrating. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 12:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages A bit of an update (or follow up) for those experiencing a serious lag when opening certain messages in Outlook. I don¡¯t know why I referred to Outlook as locking up in the subject line; it is probably because I use that phrase in regards to a different Outlook issue, which I have a bit of update for¡will address it in a different thread. I filed a case with JAWS Support a week to 10 days ago regarding the serious lag in performance (JAWS goes silent and it is like the screen is frozen) when certain messages (lengthy and/or what I believe is referred to as HTML content (graphics, tables, links, photos, etc.) Unfortunately, the agent didn¡¯t always clearly communicate, and apparently they are very busy there. He asked me to send some examples of messages that are troublesome; I did a week ago. It took him almost a week to follow up, and his response was that the problem could not be replicated. The end¡no further comment. I wrote back as tactfully as possible, saying it is good he doesn¡¯t have the problem, but the fact is I and others are having the problem, etc. He responded by saying something like, I think you are using Outlook; I was not, and that might be why I couldn¡¯t replicate the sluggishness. Seriously? The fact I am accessing email via Outlook is an extremely pertinent detail (emphasized clearly in my original message and replies); how was he not sure about that¡whatever. I wrote back emphasizing the importance of Outlook in regards to this matter. I have no evidence that the lag in JAWS performance happens when accessing email via other means. I reiterated the lag for sure happens with JAWS 2024 and 2025¡not sure about 2023, and with Narrator; I do not use NVDA. For those who might care, I will mention here that Alt-Tab doesn¡¯t work¡JAWS is totally silent and focus remains on what I assume is the body of the message as it attempts to open. I cannot do anything; not even escape out of the message or close Outlook. The other suggestions on this group have been tried, but again I am stuck, and am forced to wait until JAWS speaks and I¡¯m permitted to take action (e.g. read the message, Alt-Tab, close the message, etc.) To be clear, I encounter messages, like Sam¡¯s Club marketing stuff, that causes JAWS to pause for a few seconds; probably 3-4 seconds. The silence/delay I¡¯m dealing with is way more extreme (e.g. ¡°Happy Birthday¡± could be sung a minimum of two, and probably three, or more times before JAWS speaks again and/or I can take action)¡editing/replying to these messages is even more annoying as the silences happen over and over again. I determined if I erase the original content, there is no delay, but when forwarding messages, you need the content to remain. The agent then asked again about Outlook add-ins, which he asked, and I answered, earlier in the thread of messages between he/me¡what the heck! The agent obviously is not referencing prior messages. I replied with kindness/respect, but said something that spurred the agent into action; he did some research, sent numerous messages, etc., after that. It was at that point when he finally shared that there was at least one other report about this issue, and it is with the development team. I then learned that the agent forgot to tell me how to send the messages (don¡¯t forward but save/attach files). I had forwarded them, and he accessed them via a program that isn¡¯t Outlook¡what a waste of time! I am not in his shoes, have never done his job, etc., so I am trying to go easy on the agent. After a week of waiting/poor communication, the good news is the matter has finally been passed onto the development team for investigation. I was asked to urge others who share the problem to contact JAWS Support. You could call to report, or send an email. The latter is probably best, so you can share examples of messages that require a significant wait before JAWS speaks again. In case it helps, Following are steps to attach the troublesome messages. 1. Select the message in the Microsoft Outlook inbox. 2. Press Alt+F to open the File drop down menu. 3. Choose Save As from the menu. 4. Save the file in a location where it can easily be found. The file should have the name of the email's subject line in your inbox, and will have a .msg extension. 5. Start an email addressed to support@... <mailto:support@...> , fill in the subject line, and add appropriate comments/information in the body of the message. I recommend your comments alert the reader to look for attached files. 6. Use your preferred method to insert/attach the desired saved files. 7. Send the message. Whether you call or email, provide information about your system (OS, Outlook version, JAWS version and Serial Number, etc.) Provide information like when the problem started, can the problem be traced to a recent JAWS update or change in Outlook, etc. I recommend you mention that others have reported the same, and those reports were passed onto the development team, and ask could your report be passed on as well. Katrina From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of chaltain@... via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I see this with JAWS, Narrator and NVDA. Alt-tabbing away or hitting control+end don¡¯t seem to be any better for me than just waiting. This control+has been a round for years. I think FS addressed it a while ago, but that only made it marginally better, and I agree, it¡¯s gotten worse lately. IMHO, there¡¯s an issue in the AT layer for either Windows or Outlook. FS would know best and should be able to work with Microsoft if needed. BTW, I don¡¯t have this problem with voiceOver on IOS, so sometimes, I¡¯ll wait to open up such an email until I¡¯m on my phone. -- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>¡Â Chaltain at Outlook, USA From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Wayne23 via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:00 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Something else that can work is pressing control+end to go to the bottom of the email and working your way up. | Wayne Senior, Dewsbury, England On Tuesday, 14 January 2025 at 22:20:32 GMT, Mr. Ed via groups.io < <mailto:pinky14@...> pinky14@...> wrote: Hi, I have tab away from the email then back again and Jaws reads again. Mr. Ed From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Susan Thompson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 3:09 AM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages HI all, I¡¯ve particularly noticed this recently ¨C it seems like since recent versions of JAWS 2025. It is also hard as it is to find a pattern. but acknowledging Brian¡¯s valid comment, I¡¯ve not tried it with NVDA or Narrator, but it seems so intermittent that if I go to one when it happens, I¡¯m not sure it would replicate and I don¡¯t want to have to use those screen readers very long to see if it might happen. I realize this is possibly at the risk of not solving the problem, But I might see if when it happens it is a more complex email structure, I didn¡¯t think of that. Regards Susan From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:09 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages This has been an ongoing problem (that I and numerous others have experienced) for months/years. I¡¯ve tried many things to resolve the problem, but to no avail. Unsure if I previously reported the issue to Vispero, I decided to do it now¡just sent a report about the frequent silences after opening certain messages in Outlook, and also inquired about Outlook locking up/freezing; typically requiring the program to be removed from the Task Manager. JAWS may not have anything to do with it, but couldn¡¯t hurt to ask. Katrina From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steven Hicks via groups.io Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 11:17 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I Have experienced this as well, seemingly on long messages with lots of content, eventually it does come back though. From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io Sent: 14 January 2025 04:16 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Have you had the same issue when using either NVDA or Narrator for the same messages? That is a first pass diagnostic to decide whether the fault lies with the JAWS screen reader versus Outlook 365. If you can't replicate with a different screen reader (or even if you can) this needs to be reported to Vispero/FS Support. They'd need to know if it's only happening with JAWS, or with JAWS and any other screen reader or screen readers. -- Brian ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- | Regards, Wayne Senior Latest stable versions of NVDA, JAWS and Narrator. |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Konnie, ? Alt-v, p, l; followed by arrow up/down through options (as Richard said, options include 1, 2, 3 lines of preview; or, off) or until ¡°off¡± is selected and/or checked.? Tap Enter.? If the option wasn¡¯t checked, it will be after you tap Enter.? You may be prompted to select if you want this to apply to the current folder or all mailboxes.? I tabbed to the latter and tapped Enter.?? ? HTH Katrina From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Konnie Ellis via groups.io ? How do I turn off Message Preview? Thanks. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io ? Mike, ? In Outlook, there is no such thing as the preview pane in the most recent versions of Outlook.? The reading pane is often referred to as the preview pane because that's the name used in some other email clients.? Thunderbird calls it the Message Pane. It exists so that you do not have to open a separate reading window. ? Message preview, as I mentioned earlier, is a part of the mailbox itself.? You can turn it on to show the first 1, 2, or 3 lines of a message right in the mailbox message list.? It's completely separate from the Reading Pane. ? File Explorer does have a preview pane option (or a details pane option - both take up the same space, so you have one or the other), but Outlook does not. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 05:57 PM, Konnie Ellis wrote:
How do I turn off Message Preview? -
Alt + V, P L, O
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Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHow do I turn off Message Preview? Thanks. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 3:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down ? Mike, ? In Outlook, there is no such thing as the preview pane in the most recent versions of Outlook.? The reading pane is often referred to as the preview pane because that's the name used in some other email clients.? Thunderbird calls it the Message Pane. It exists so that you do not have to open a separate reading window. ? Message preview, as I mentioned earlier, is a part of the mailbox itself.? You can turn it on to show the first 1, 2, or 3 lines of a message right in the mailbox message list.? It's completely separate from the Reading Pane. ? File Explorer does have a preview pane option (or a details pane option - both take up the same space, so you have one or the other), but Outlook does not. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
Mike,
?
In Outlook, there is no such thing as the preview pane in the most recent versions of Outlook.? The reading pane is often referred to as the preview pane because that's the name used in some other email clients.? Thunderbird calls it the Message Pane. It exists so that you do not have to open a separate reading window.
?
Message preview, as I mentioned earlier, is a part of the mailbox itself.? You can turn it on to show the first 1, 2, or 3 lines of a message right in the mailbox message list.? It's completely separate from the Reading Pane.
?
File Explorer does have a preview pane option (or a details pane option - both take up the same space, so you have one or the other), but Outlook does not.
--
Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
?
On?Sunday, February 02, 2025 2:05 PM, Brian said
?
5. Know the difference between message preview and
the reading pane "just off the top of your head."
?
I believe the Preview pane is exactly that,
previewing a message without opening it, but I'm foggy on what exactly the,
Reading pane, is?? I have mine set to, Off, but am I hurting my readability
options in using the Off setting?
?
What I think the, Reading pane, is, a screen that
you can read the message from without opening the message.? Am I
close?
? |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 12:59 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
What constitutes an Outlook power user? I guess if I have to ask, I may not be one -
I'll give some examples, but your own answer nails it.? If you're a power user of anything you know that you're a power user.
?
In Outlook, some things that might be used by power users:
1. Using Outlook Rules where the identification criteria is not just limited to who a message comes from or a word or words in a subject line.? There are 31 different criteria that can be used in combination to identify a message for filtering.? If you're not using at least 3 in some combination, then you're not a power user for the filtering identification side of rules.
2. Using multiple actions for a rule which do more than just moving a message to a specific folder or automatically deleting it.
3. Making the registry edits necessary to reveal the action to "Run a script" and then using VBA scripts to take very complicated, specific actions based upon the actual content of a message.
4. Using email message templates (OFT file extensions) and particularly in conjunction with mail merge functions.
5. Know the difference between message preview and the reading pane "just off the top of your head."
?
Essentially, you're not a power user if all you do is send and receive email and the most complex processing you might do is with rules to move messages from specific people or having certain words in the subject line to folders besides your inbox.? Most of us are not Outlook power users, including myself.
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Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 01:25 PM, Chris Smart wrote:
¡°Power User¡± sounds elitist doesn¡¯t it? -
Well, people who are in tiny groups that use esoteric features that are generally not used by "the great center of the bell curve" of users are in an elite group.
?
It's an accurate description, and has been used in the tech industry to categorize precisely what I outlined, regardless of the product involved.
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Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Re: JAWS Locking up when I open some messages
Interestingly, Andy, your steps to access add-ins don't work for me. Clicking on "Info" changes nothing. Shift-Tab finds "Rules & Alerts (JAWS announces 1 of 1). I tried tapping Enter twice on Info; no change. Tab/Shift-Tab doesn't find, " Manage Com Add-ins." Perhaps that is due to my view settings. I am, however , able to find, " Manage Com Add-ins." Via settings. Alt-f, t, typing the letter a 3 times to put focus on "add-ins," and then tabbing. That is where I was when I managed to remove add-ins (obviously I found an option to remove), and Outlook got very upset, and only worked after the Microsoft agent put them back.
toggle quoted message
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Clicking on " Manage "Com Add-ins" there doesn't give me desired results. However, there is a list of add-ins; now 5 are in the list instead of 4. There is a "go" button; clicking on that produces a list of the add-ins; with checked/unchecked status. I've ensured only the Adobe add-in is checked. If I Shift-Tab, there is a remove button; guessing that will only remove the item that is checked, one related to Adobe. Your comment about finding the add-in that is causing the problem baffles me; nothing I've encountered identifies if an add-in is/isn't a problem. Could it be that you assume the Adobe add-ins caused you problems? I'm just curious how you knew the Adobe add-in was causing problems. I might get brave, and try again; this time, only trying to remove the add-in related to Adobe, but I will stew on that for a bit. Katrina -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 8:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Katrina, In Outlook, when you are at the list of messages, hit Alt F and then hit ENTER on Info. Shift Tab and you will be on Manage Com Addins. Hit Enter there and you will see the Addin that is causing difficulty. In my case it is for Adobe. TAB and you will see Options, which is closed. Hit ENTER there and this is where I hit the brick wall, because the only option you are given is Enable, which I don't think you want to do. I had hoped that Remove would be there, but it isn't. Andy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 3:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Interesting, Andy. First of all, interesting that you have been unsuccessful in removing the Adobe add-in; makes me feel not quite so alone. You are obviously more tuned in than I, as I have never been told by anybody (including Microsoft or JAWS Support) that an Outlook add-in related to Adobe causing outlook to slow down or even crash altogether, and I have directly asked support agents about the need to remove the Adobe add-in, or the other 3 add-ins. Actually, the JAWS Support agent was only pointing out that add-ins can sometimes cause problems. I have now advised the agent twice about the 4 add-ins in Outlook (including the one related to Adobe), and explained I need support removing add-ins if desired; he has yet to say anything about whether any of the add-ins need to be removed, or offered assistance removing it. Several weeks ago, I attempted to remove Outlook add-ins, and the program didn't care for that at all. My understanding is that Outlook needed something I had removed to work properly. I ended up contacting Microsoft, who put the add-ins back, and didn't ever say that the Adobe add-in was a problem. I do not care if these add-ins are removed, but I am hesitant to try removing anything as I apparently don't know what I'm doing and/or did something wrong that kind of traumatized me; I so don't need another problem right now. An agent with JAWS Support, while on the phone several weeks ago, when dealing with the mess I caused by removing add-ins, said he knows nothing about add-ins and couldn't advise/support me in that regard. If you are certain that the Adobe add-in should be removed, I guess I could call Microsoft again, to see if they would remove it for me; if the program doesn't care for that, the agent could put it back I assume. Katrina -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andy Baracco via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 3:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I also have this issue when opening any large message. The reason that the tech you spoke to mentioned addins is because there is a known issue with an Outlook addin related to Adobe that can cause outlook to slow down or even crash altogether. I have tried to remove this addin without success. Outlook does automatically disable it. Andy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Friday, January 31, 2025 11:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages A bit of an update (or follow up) for those experiencing a serious lag when opening certain messages in Outlook. I don¡¯t know why I referred to Outlook as locking up in the subject line; it is probably because I use that phrase in regards to a different Outlook issue, which I have a bit of update for¡will address it in a different thread. I filed a case with JAWS Support a week to 10 days ago regarding the serious lag in performance (JAWS goes silent and it is like the screen is frozen) when certain messages (lengthy and/or what I believe is referred to as HTML content (graphics, tables, links, photos, etc.) Unfortunately, the agent didn¡¯t always clearly communicate, and apparently they are very busy there. He asked me to send some examples of messages that are troublesome; I did a week ago. It took him almost a week to follow up, and his response was that the problem could not be replicated. The end¡no further comment. I wrote back as tactfully as possible, saying it is good he doesn¡¯t have the problem, but the fact is I and others are having the problem, etc. He responded by saying something like, I think you are using Outlook; I was not, and that might be why I couldn¡¯t replicate the sluggishness. Seriously? The fact I am accessing email via Outlook is an extremely pertinent detail (emphasized clearly in my original message and replies); how was he not sure about that¡whatever. I wrote back emphasizing the importance of Outlook in regards to this matter. I have no evidence that the lag in JAWS performance happens when accessing email via other means. I reiterated the lag for sure happens with JAWS 2024 and 2025¡not sure about 2023, and with Narrator; I do not use NVDA. For those who might care, I will mention here that Alt-Tab doesn¡¯t work¡JAWS is totally silent and focus remains on what I assume is the body of the message as it attempts to open. I cannot do anything; not even escape out of the message or close Outlook. The other suggestions on this group have been tried, but again I am stuck, and am forced to wait until JAWS speaks and I¡¯m permitted to take action (e.g. read the message, Alt-Tab, close the message, etc.) To be clear, I encounter messages, like Sam¡¯s Club marketing stuff, that causes JAWS to pause for a few seconds; probably 3-4 seconds. The silence/delay I¡¯m dealing with is way more extreme (e.g. ¡°Happy Birthday¡± could be sung a minimum of two, and probably three, or more times before JAWS speaks again and/or I can take action)¡editing/replying to these messages is even more annoying as the silences happen over and over again. I determined if I erase the original content, there is no delay, but when forwarding messages, you need the content to remain. The agent then asked again about Outlook add-ins, which he asked, and I answered, earlier in the thread of messages between he/me¡what the heck! The agent obviously is not referencing prior messages. I replied with kindness/respect, but said something that spurred the agent into action; he did some research, sent numerous messages, etc., after that. It was at that point when he finally shared that there was at least one other report about this issue, and it is with the development team. I then learned that the agent forgot to tell me how to send the messages (don¡¯t forward but save/attach files). I had forwarded them, and he accessed them via a program that isn¡¯t Outlook¡what a waste of time! I am not in his shoes, have never done his job, etc., so I am trying to go easy on the agent. After a week of waiting/poor communication, the good news is the matter has finally been passed onto the development team for investigation. I was asked to urge others who share the problem to contact JAWS Support. You could call to report, or send an email. The latter is probably best, so you can share examples of messages that require a significant wait before JAWS speaks again. In case it helps, Following are steps to attach the troublesome messages. 1. Select the message in the Microsoft Outlook inbox. 2. Press Alt+F to open the File drop down menu. 3. Choose Save As from the menu. 4. Save the file in a location where it can easily be found. The file should have the name of the email's subject line in your inbox, and will have a .msg extension. 5. Start an email addressed to support@... <mailto:support@...> , fill in the subject line, and add appropriate comments/information in the body of the message. I recommend your comments alert the reader to look for attached files. 6. Use your preferred method to insert/attach the desired saved files. 7. Send the message. Whether you call or email, provide information about your system (OS, Outlook version, JAWS version and Serial Number, etc.) Provide information like when the problem started, can the problem be traced to a recent JAWS update or change in Outlook, etc. I recommend you mention that others have reported the same, and those reports were passed onto the development team, and ask could your report be passed on as well. Katrina From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of chaltain@... via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I see this with JAWS, Narrator and NVDA. Alt-tabbing away or hitting control+end don¡¯t seem to be any better for me than just waiting. This control+has been a round for years. I think FS addressed it a while ago, but that only made it marginally better, and I agree, it¡¯s gotten worse lately. IMHO, there¡¯s an issue in the AT layer for either Windows or Outlook. FS would know best and should be able to work with Microsoft if needed. BTW, I don¡¯t have this problem with voiceOver on IOS, so sometimes, I¡¯ll wait to open up such an email until I¡¯m on my phone. -- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>¡Â Chaltain at Outlook, USA From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Wayne23 via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:00 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Something else that can work is pressing control+end to go to the bottom of the email and working your way up. | Wayne Senior, Dewsbury, England On Tuesday, 14 January 2025 at 22:20:32 GMT, Mr. Ed via groups.io < <mailto:pinky14@...> pinky14@...> wrote: Hi, I have tab away from the email then back again and Jaws reads again. Mr. Ed From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Susan Thompson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 3:09 AM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages HI all, I¡¯ve particularly noticed this recently ¨C it seems like since recent versions of JAWS 2025. It is also hard as it is to find a pattern. but acknowledging Brian¡¯s valid comment, I¡¯ve not tried it with NVDA or Narrator, but it seems so intermittent that if I go to one when it happens, I¡¯m not sure it would replicate and I don¡¯t want to have to use those screen readers very long to see if it might happen. I realize this is possibly at the risk of not solving the problem, But I might see if when it happens it is a more complex email structure, I didn¡¯t think of that. Regards Susan From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:09 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages This has been an ongoing problem (that I and numerous others have experienced) for months/years. I¡¯ve tried many things to resolve the problem, but to no avail. Unsure if I previously reported the issue to Vispero, I decided to do it now¡just sent a report about the frequent silences after opening certain messages in Outlook, and also inquired about Outlook locking up/freezing; typically requiring the program to be removed from the Task Manager. JAWS may not have anything to do with it, but couldn¡¯t hurt to ask. Katrina From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steven Hicks via groups.io Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 11:17 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I Have experienced this as well, seemingly on long messages with lots of content, eventually it does come back though. From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io Sent: 14 January 2025 04:16 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Have you had the same issue when using either NVDA or Narrator for the same messages? That is a first pass diagnostic to decide whether the fault lies with the JAWS screen reader versus Outlook 365. If you can't replicate with a different screen reader (or even if you can) this needs to be reported to Vispero/FS Support. They'd need to know if it's only happening with JAWS, or with JAWS and any other screen reader or screen readers. -- Brian ¡¤¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- | Regards, Wayne Senior Latest stable versions of NVDA, JAWS and Narrator. |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý¡°Power User¡± sounds elitist doesn¡¯t it? ? |
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Re: JAWS Locking up when I open some messages
I've experienced the same and will report accordingly. Whatever the reason, you should receive a better reception at Vispero for a problem many of us are noticing.
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Joe -- Joe Orozco: Your Message, My Mission -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 2:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages A bit of an update (or follow up) for those experiencing a serious lag when opening certain messages in Outlook. I don¡¯t know why I referred to Outlook as locking up in the subject line; it is probably because I use that phrase in regards to a different Outlook issue, which I have a bit of update for¡will address it in a different thread. I filed a case with JAWS Support a week to 10 days ago regarding the serious lag in performance (JAWS goes silent and it is like the screen is frozen) when certain messages (lengthy and/or what I believe is referred to as HTML content (graphics, tables, links, photos, etc.) Unfortunately, the agent didn¡¯t always clearly communicate, and apparently they are very busy there. He asked me to send some examples of messages that are troublesome; I did a week ago. It took him almost a week to follow up, and his response was that the problem could not be replicated. The end¡no further comment. I wrote back as tactfully as possible, saying it is good he doesn¡¯t have the problem, but the fact is I and others are having the problem, etc. He responded by saying something like, I think you are using Outlook; I was not, and that might be why I couldn¡¯t replicate the sluggishness. Seriously? The fact I am accessing email via Outlook is an extremely pertinent detail (emphasized clearly in my original message and replies); how was he not sure about that¡whatever. I wrote back emphasizing the importance of Outlook in regards to this matter. I have no evidence that the lag in JAWS performance happens when accessing email via other means. I reiterated the lag for sure happens with JAWS 2024 and 2025¡not sure about 2023, and with Narrator; I do not use NVDA. For those who might care, I will mention here that Alt-Tab doesn¡¯t work¡JAWS is totally silent and focus remains on what I assume is the body of the message as it attempts to open. I cannot do anything; not even escape out of the message or close Outlook. The other suggestions on this group have been tried, but again I am stuck, and am forced to wait until JAWS speaks and I¡¯m permitted to take action (e.g. read the message, Alt-Tab, close the message, etc.) To be clear, I encounter messages, like Sam¡¯s Club marketing stuff, that causes JAWS to pause for a few seconds; probably 3-4 seconds. The silence/delay I¡¯m dealing with is way more extreme (e.g. ¡°Happy Birthday¡± could be sung a minimum of two, and probably three, or more times before JAWS speaks again and/or I can take action)¡editing/replying to these messages is even more annoying as the silences happen over and over again. I determined if I erase the original content, there is no delay, but when forwarding messages, you need the content to remain. The agent then asked again about Outlook add-ins, which he asked, and I answered, earlier in the thread of messages between he/me¡what the heck! The agent obviously is not referencing prior messages. I replied with kindness/respect, but said something that spurred the agent into action; he did some research, sent numerous messages, etc., after that. It was at that point when he finally shared that there was at least one other report about this issue, and it is with the development team. I then learned that the agent forgot to tell me how to send the messages (don¡¯t forward but save/attach files). I had forwarded them, and he accessed them via a program that isn¡¯t Outlook¡what a waste of time! I am not in his shoes, have never done his job, etc., so I am trying to go easy on the agent. After a week of waiting/poor communication, the good news is the matter has finally been passed onto the development team for investigation. I was asked to urge others who share the problem to contact JAWS Support. You could call to report, or send an email. The latter is probably best, so you can share examples of messages that require a significant wait before JAWS speaks again. In case it helps, Following are steps to attach the troublesome messages. 1. Select the message in the Microsoft Outlook inbox. 2. Press Alt+F to open the File drop down menu. 3. Choose Save As from the menu. 4. Save the file in a location where it can easily be found. The file should have the name of the email's subject line in your inbox, and will have a .msg extension. 5. Start an email addressed to support@... <mailto:support@...> , fill in the subject line, and add appropriate comments/information in the body of the message. I recommend your comments alert the reader to look for attached files. 6. Use your preferred method to insert/attach the desired saved files. 7. Send the message. Whether you call or email, provide information about your system (OS, Outlook version, JAWS version and Serial Number, etc.) Provide information like when the problem started, can the problem be traced to a recent JAWS update or change in Outlook, etc. I recommend you mention that others have reported the same, and those reports were passed onto the development team, and ask could your report be passed on as well. Katrina From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of chaltain@... via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 7:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I see this with JAWS, Narrator and NVDA. Alt-tabbing away or hitting control+end don¡¯t seem to be any better for me than just waiting. This control+has been a round for years. I think FS addressed it a while ago, but that only made it marginally better, and I agree, it¡¯s gotten worse lately. IMHO, there¡¯s an issue in the AT layer for either Windows or Outlook. FS would know best and should be able to work with Microsoft if needed. BTW, I don¡¯t have this problem with voiceOver on IOS, so sometimes, I¡¯ll wait to open up such an email until I¡¯m on my phone. -- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>¡Â Chaltain at Outlook, USA From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Wayne23 via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:00 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Something else that can work is pressing control+end to go to the bottom of the email and working your way up. | Wayne Senior, Dewsbury, England On Tuesday, 14 January 2025 at 22:20:32 GMT, Mr. Ed via groups.io < <mailto:pinky14@...> pinky14@...> wrote: Hi, I have tab away from the email then back again and Jaws reads again. Mr. Ed From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Susan Thompson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 3:09 AM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages HI all, I¡¯ve particularly noticed this recently ¨C it seems like since recent versions of JAWS 2025. It is also hard as it is to find a pattern. but acknowledging Brian¡¯s valid comment, I¡¯ve not tried it with NVDA or Narrator, but it seems so intermittent that if I go to one when it happens, I¡¯m not sure it would replicate and I don¡¯t want to have to use those screen readers very long to see if it might happen. I realize this is possibly at the risk of not solving the problem, But I might see if when it happens it is a more complex email structure, I didn¡¯t think of that. Regards Susan From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 5:09 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages This has been an ongoing problem (that I and numerous others have experienced) for months/years. I¡¯ve tried many things to resolve the problem, but to no avail. Unsure if I previously reported the issue to Vispero, I decided to do it now¡just sent a report about the frequent silences after opening certain messages in Outlook, and also inquired about Outlook locking up/freezing; typically requiring the program to be removed from the Task Manager. JAWS may not have anything to do with it, but couldn¡¯t hurt to ask. Katrina From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Steven Hicks via groups.io Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 11:17 PM To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages I Have experienced this as well, seemingly on long messages with lots of content, eventually it does come back though. From: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io Sent: 14 January 2025 04:16 To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] JAWS Locking up when I open some messages Have you had the same issue when using either NVDA or Narrator for the same messages? That is a first pass diagnostic to decide whether the fault lies with the JAWS screen reader versus Outlook 365. If you can't replicate with a different screen reader (or even if you can) this needs to be reported to Vispero/FS Support. They'd need to know if it's only happening with JAWS, or with JAWS and any other screen reader or screen readers. -- Brian ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- | Regards, Wayne Senior Latest stable versions of NVDA, JAWS and Narrator. |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI¡¯ve resigned myself to having to deal with the problem for as long as I keep this machine. I too set it to 120 minutes like you recommended, but the problem keeps cropping up to the point where I now have to double check the Sent folder every time to make sure my messages went out. ? Joe ? -- Joe Orozco: Your Message, My Mission https://joeorozco.com/services/ ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Katrina Anderson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 2:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [M365-Accessibility] Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down ? about my system: OS Name:? Windows 10 Pro Version:? 10.0.19045 Build 19045 System Type:? x64-based PC Office/Outlook 2019 JAWS 2025.2412.50 ? I am writing to provide a little follow up; basically, I don¡¯t have much to share.? I asked JAWS Support for help in regards to Outlook locking up (e.g. cannot send/receive mail and the only way to close Outlook and get mail flowing again is via the Task Manager).? Although my guess is this has nothing to do with JAWS, I felt it worth asking.? At this point, it looks as though JAWS Support cannot help, but perhaps they will be motivated to investigate if enough of us report the problem.? Call or email information is below: Support at FreedomScientific.com Technical Support Telephone: (727) 803-8600 Contact/Sales:? (800) 444-4443 I¡¯m almost certain that I¡¯ve used the toll-free number to get support. International Sales Telephone (including Canada): (727) 803-8000 ? As some of you know, I set the automatic send time for 120 minutes, and things went well for several days, until recently when I¡¯m having to close Outlook via Task Manager multiple times per day.? So, I¡¯m once again investigating. ? Google shows many individuals (who do not reference JAWS) have experienced the problem over the past several years.? When I have time, I will dive deep into Google results to see if I can find a solution. ? Katrina ? |
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Re: Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWhat constitutes an Outlook power user? I guess if I have to ask, I may not be one, but I¡¯m curious to know what functionality I would sacrifice by potentially switching over. I¡¯d be more inclined to switching if I knew my email would flow to and from without shutting off at the task manager. ? Joe ? -- Joe Orozco: Your Message, My Mission https://joeorozco.com/services/ ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 1, 2025 8:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] Update: Outlook not sending/receiving messages and not shutting down ? Wayne, ? ? ? ? ?Anyone saying Outlook 16 these days pretty much has to be most likely talking about Outlook 2016, since the Office suites have had year designations as major version numbers since 2003 (2007, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2021, 2024). ? Katrina, ? I stand by what I've said earlier about Outlook Classic, regardless of what version of Office it runs under or under M365:? It is now a step-child in wind-down mode.? Microsoft has been trying to finally get rid of it for many years now, and would have made it sunset long before 2029 if there weren't an absolutely immense embedded user bast that requires a lot of time to plan out their migrations over time. ? For individual users, if you're not an Outlook power user, then I'd use Outlook for Windows, the free email, calendar, and contacts app that now replaces what had been the Windows 10/11 Mail, Calendar, and People Apps.? The user interface is identical to that of New Outlook for the functions it supports, and at this point New Outlook has a long way to go in terms of integrating all the capabilities that power users of Outlook Classic use.? But they're going to have to do this prior to 2029. ? The future is New Outlook and Outlook for Windows.? But it's only New Outlook that's technically part of M365, even though at this point in time it's visually and pretty much in all ways indistinguishable from Outlook for Windows, but that will change over time. -- Brian? ¡¤ ¡á? ¡¤ ???? ¡¤ ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ?????? ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
Brian Vogel
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