Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
? Yes Richard? what I sent is likely? about a permanent shift? in frequency;? it likely does not closely relate to the original posting, but is an aside, closely related to xtal frequency shifts in general. There is no info about where the xtal came from. I was looking for , and then ran into the xtal stuff I am interested in your comments, but I have no expertise on this: just interested in learning about what others have run across. Seems to me the cause of Steve’s? xtal frequency jumping?? remains unclear, at least to me.? Wonder if Steve got his new xtal and tried it? 73, Don VA3DRL ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Knoppow
Sent: Monday, November 7, 2022 2:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-110 Crystal Instability? I suspect this is not a plated crystal but a plain crystal held between plane electrodes on both sides.? ?It seems to me that migrated solder would cause a permanent shift in frequency rather than one that changed with position.? Opening the holder would tell you.? I think the op said he had opened it. I think the crystal is loose in the holder.? It can't be too tight but also should not move around.? One reason the phasing setting changes could be a change in the holder capacitance due to loosness. -------- Original message -------- From: don Root <drootofallevil@...> Date: 11/7/22 11:29 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-110 Crystal Instability steve
I just ran across this,but but there is not enough info to know if it could be related to your investigation.?
?
"This is a BSE SEM image of a quartz crystal that reportedly shifted in frequency. The problem was apparently caused by tin-lead solder on the spring mounts that wicked out onto the silver contact metallization on the crystals, which would be expected to change the mechanical response and therefore the frequency of the crystal."
from ...
don VA3DR ? =======trim
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Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
And for those non-microscopists/ non-biology majors:
?
BSE = backscattered electrons
?
SEM = scanning electron microscope
?
Bob K3AC
In a message dated 11/7/2022 2:28:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, drootofallevil@... writes:
?
steve
I just ran across this,but but there is not enough info to know if it could be related to your investigation.?
?
"This is a BSE SEM image of a quartz crystal that reportedly shifted in frequency. The problem was apparently caused by tin-lead solder on the spring mounts that wicked out onto the silver contact metallization on the crystals, which would be expected to change the mechanical response and therefore the frequency of the crystal."
from ...
?
don VA3DRL
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Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
I suspect this is not a plated crystal but a plain crystal held between plane electrodes on both sides.? ?It seems to me that migrated solder would cause a permanent shift in frequency rather than one that changed with position.? Opening the holder would tell you.? I think the op said he had opened it. I think the crystal is loose in the holder.? It can't be too tight but also should not move around.? One reason the phasing setting changes could be a change in the holder capacitance due to loosness.
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-------- Original message -------- From: don Root <drootofallevil@...> Date: 11/7/22 11:29 AM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-110 Crystal Instability
steve
I just ran across this,but but there is not enough info to know if it could be related to your investigation.?
?
"This is a BSE SEM image of a quartz crystal that reportedly shifted in frequency. The problem was apparently caused by tin-lead solder on the spring mounts that wicked out onto the silver contact metallization on the crystals, which would be expected to change the mechanical response and therefore the frequency of the crystal."
from ...
?
don VA3DRL
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Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
steve
I just ran across this,but but there is not enough info to know if it could be related to your investigation.?
?
"This is a BSE SEM image of a quartz crystal that reportedly shifted in frequency. The problem was apparently caused by tin-lead solder on the spring mounts that wicked out onto the silver contact metallization on the crystals, which would be expected to change the mechanical response and therefore the frequency of the crystal."
from ...
?
don VA3DRL
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Hallicrafters Equipment For Sale
I have for sale the following 16 Hallicrafters radio items.
I can no longer afford the space or time to use them. I have previously operated most if not all of the items. I know some of them worked, but I don't remember which. The rest may or may not have worked. Consider all of them not working, so your only surprise will be most work. The physical condition of each item is very nice. I am including a couple of pictures. Additional pictures would be difficult to get. I can no longer safely lift most of the pieces to allow more photos. Manuals are included for most items.
I originally listed this as a package deal only. It was suggested to me that it would be difficult to load and transport all units at once. In case there is still someone who might be interested in the whole lot, I will sell as a package deal for $3,200 or best offer.
I will list individual prices for purchase of one or more individual pieces.
?
Qty.
?
2? ? ? @? $350 ea? ?SX-117 Receivers
2 ? ? ? @ $300 ea? ?HT-44 Transmitters
1? ? ? ?@ $350?SR-160 Transceiver (3 Band 80, 40, 20 M)
2? ? ? ?@ $400 ea??SR-150 Transceivers (5 Band 80, 40, 20, 15, 10 M)
5? ? ? ?@ $125 ea? ?PS-150-120 Power Supplies
1? ? ? ?@ $100?HA-8 Splatter Guard
1? ? ? ?@ $100?HA-10 LF/MF Tuner
1? ? ? ?@ $100??HA-1 TO Keyer
1? ? ? ?@ $100? S-108 Receiver
?
The items will have to be picked up in Ellettsville, IN and will have to be removed from my basement.
PayPal is useable only if the Family and Friends payment option is selected.
?
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Re: Dust Cover for my SX-17
I thought the same thing.
Its in the works.
K2WH
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Re: Dust Cover for my SX-17
Looks like he did a really nice job on it!
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On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:06 PM, Richard Knoppow <1oldlens1@...> wrote:
? Very nice.? Seems to me that a matching cover for the speaker? Would also be nice.??
-------- Original message -------- From: "Bill (Group Owner)" <k2wh@...> Date: 11/5/22 12:40 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Dust Cover for my SX-17
Just received my special protective dust cover for my SX-17, Nice. <DSC01164.JPG> ?
K2WH
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Re: Dust Cover for my SX-17
Very nice.? Seems to me that a matching cover for the speaker? Would also be nice.??
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Bill (Group Owner)" <k2wh@...> Date: 11/5/22 12:40 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: [HallicraftersRadios] Dust Cover for my SX-17
Just received my special protective dust cover for my SX-17, Nice. ?
K2WH
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Just received my special protective dust cover for my SX-17, Nice.
?
K2WH
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Re: ISO HT-45 and power supply
?
Hi Sam , good job on finding the HT45. I am curious what ball park figure they sell for?
There is one locally here being sold , it’s in pretty rough shape and both the seller and I dont know what a reasonable price should be. I don’t see any eBay sales.
It has an unmarked power supply with it.
We don’t want to cheat ourselves or each other. No idea if it works.
Tim
On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 03:27 AM, Sam B wrote:
Hi everyone, I know its a bit of a longshot. I'm looking for a HT-45 to go with my SX-117 and HT-44 set that I recently got on the air. I haven’t had any luck finding any for sale. After looking online for several months I though that if anyone would know of one out there it would be someone in this group. Thanks in advance and? 73.
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Re: What's Old, is New Again - Hallicrafters SX-17 & FT8
Same here whenever I see your calls on here or I believe on FT8. BTW, want real? dyslexia, I worked stations with the following calls:
- W2WH
- K4WH
- W2KH
- K2HW
K2WH
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I still sm not clear on a couple of things.? Is the double peak on one station only?? And secondly how are you seeing it?? I thought the 62 does not have a tuning indicator, am I wrong?? ?A problem with the IF or detector should show up on all stations.? If this appears on one station it is something else ?
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-------- Original message -------- From: don Root <drootofallevil@...> Date: 11/4/22 1:35 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-62 FM respons
Scott and others
I am sticking with my first guess for now --two peaks on the IF [ If response is not flat enough]? .. but I have no conviction on that.
i agree that SMD, even if it is possible in the 62? seems to be a remote possibility
I just ran across a? somewhat similar posting on some other? group? and? i would guess from that, it is hard to rule out repeaters until they are checked out in that area.?
-- now i just saw a new email from Joe? and after a few moments of thought, it could be that old caps change value a bit and UNTUNE the IF’s rather than fail shorted .. but that is still just one possibility. ? 73,, don?? VA3DRL ? ? I don't believe SMD affects the SX-62 or SX-71, as they have the larger IF transformers that came before the miniature transformers with the Mica caps built in the base.
Joe; i guess you are speaking of SMD [silver mica disease] that apparently seems to make them erratic and then die shorted out and is common in many 455 kH IF transformers for AM etc.? The original posting mentioned only the one station and that it came in at two frequencies, so we don't have much to go on.
73 DON ? VA3DRL
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Scott and others
I am sticking with my first guess for now --two peaks on the IF [ If response is not flat enough]? .. but I have no conviction on that.
i agree that SMD, even if it is possible in the 62? seems to be a remote possibility
I just ran across a? somewhat similar posting on some other? group? and? i would guess from that, it is hard to rule out repeaters until they are checked out in that area.?
-- now i just saw a new email from Joe? and after a few moments of thought, it could be that old caps change value a bit and UNTUNE the IF’s rather than fail shorted .. but that is still just one possibility. ? 73,, don?? VA3DRL ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott Petersen
Sent: Friday, November 4, 2022 3:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-62 FM respons? I don't believe SMD affects the SX-62 or SX-71, as they have the larger IF transformers that came before the miniature transformers with the Mica caps built in the base.
Joe; i guess you are speaking of SMD [silver mica disease] that apparently seems to make them erratic and then die shorted out and is common in many 455 kH IF transformers for AM etc.? The original posting mentioned only the one station and that it came in at two frequencies, so we don't have much to go on.
73 DON ? VA3DRL
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Scott, you're right that the SX-62 doesn't have the IF cans susceptible to SMD, but I believe the problem is plain old leakage, not SMD. I'm sure there's information on this on the various boatanchor forums. I remember reading it when I worked on my SX-62.?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Joe?
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 03:02:11 PM EDT, Scott Petersen <s-petersen@...> wrote:
I don't believe SMD affects the SX-62 or SX-71, as they have the larger IF transformers that came before the miniature transformers with the Mica caps built in the base.
Joe; i guess you are speaking of SMD [silver mica disease] that apparently seems to make them erratic and then die shorted out and is common in many 455 kH IF transformers for AM etc.? The original posting mentioned only the one station and that it came
in at two frequencies, so we don't have much to go on.
73 DON ? VA3DRL
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I don't believe SMD affects the SX-62 or SX-71, as they have the larger IF transformers that came before the miniature transformers with the Mica caps built in the base.
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Joe; i guess you are speaking of SMD [silver mica disease] that apparently seems to make them erratic and then die shorted out and is common in many 455 kH IF transformers for AM etc.? The original posting mentioned only the one station and that it came
in at two frequencies, so we don't have much to go on.
73 DON ? VA3DRL
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Joe; i guess you are speaking of SMD [silver mica disease] that apparently seems to make them erratic and then die shorted out and is common in many 455 kH IF transformers for AM etc.? The original posting mentioned only the one station and that it came in at two frequencies, so we don't have much to go on.
73 DON ? VA3DRL
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I seem to recall that there's a chronic problem with bad mica caps inside the FM discriminator can. If I remember correctly, those caps can cause all kinds of strange problems with FM performance.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Joe Connor
On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 12:47:29 PM EDT, don Root <drootofallevil@...> wrote:
Skip:? Its too bad that you didn't get more response from others; i seem to recall this sort of thing on an EICO HFT-90 FM tuner [1959], and /or a Heathkit AR-15 stereo receiver [1969], but have no details, and did no investigation, just noted it and listened on one or the other. I still have the Heath..In sick bay, but the EICO sadly vanished long ago. Both were home built.
don VA3DRL
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Skip:? Its too bad that you didn't get more response from others; i seem to recall this sort of thing on an EICO HFT-90 FM tuner [1959], and /or a Heathkit AR-15 stereo receiver [1969], but have no details, and did no investigation, just noted it and listened on one or the other. I still have the Heath..In sick bay, but the EICO sadly vanished long ago. Both were home built.
don VA3DRL
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Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
Steve;? thanks for the clarification. I am only inquisitive now… Its driving me nuts too .. ? As I see it, you have a generator that really wants its frequency to be ?“the frequency” and a crystal that? wants to control the frequency. Is the generator really the Master and the crystal the slave, or can they be fighting?? One would not expect that the crystal could budge the generator, but who knows if the crystal can kick back somehow, maybe. I haven’t got that question quite right, and it is Just a lingering thought that I mull over. Your www reference on your new thread is interesting, but gonna take time for me to digest. Keep us updated Steve. Thanks 73 --Don VA3DRL ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KW4H via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-110 Crystal Instability? Don, ? The frequency will jump suddenly from A to B and then settle on that for a bit.? The changes aren’t slow. ? 73 – Steve, KW4H ? I’m still curious; does the frequency jump suddenly from A to B, or does it ?settle for a bit on a variety of frequencies? or is it a slow change? Don VA3DRL ? ? An update.? I just did another crystal alignment and yet again found the right spot and re-confirmed the crystal oscillator frequency null is at 453.410 KHz.? However, there is no doubt that merely tapping on the crystal – even a tiny bit – causes the null point to noticeably change when the crystal is in use.? Now – to be realistic – that’s what the crystal phasing control is for, and it won’t end up in exactly the same place every time.? If it shifts a little, the phasing control ends up in a different position when you adjust it.? So, for a receiver this old – meh – and probably no one cared back then at this price point.? Nevertheless, I’m going to try replacing the crystal with one that doesn’t jiggle.? Just because. ? 73 – Steve, KW4H ? Perfect. WB4GRA ? On Nov 3, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Jacques_VE2JFE <jacques.f@...> wrote:
? Hi Dan, You wrote: But a loose mounted crystal wafer rattling about and being OK isn't an intuitive conclusion. Like to learn more about that. There is several examples of old radios using a “loose resonator crystal”. The old models of HRO use a plug-in crystal that “rattle” when you shake the holder. Another fairly well explained case is here: Go half-way down the page. ? 73, Jacques, VE2JFE in Montreal
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Re: SX-110 Crystal Instability
Thanks, Richard.? I’ve opened the holder twice – cleaned everything (it wasn’t dirty, though), and carefully reassembled.? I think it’s just an old design and was considered “good enough”. ? 73 – Steve, KW4H ? FWIW i opened the filter compartment of my HQ 129 X? the crystal is in a holder similar to the one pictured in the SX110.? Itried tapping it.? Did not change frequency or have any effect on the phasing control.? as mentioned before the same ki d of holder is used in the RCA AR 88 . I have tapped that one too and found it made a slight noise but didn't seem to change its frequency. I think it's possible the electrodes may be a little loose.? The change in capacitance word affect the phasing control.
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-------- Original message --------From: don Root <drootofallevil@...> Date: 11/3/22 5:31 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] SX-110 Crystal Instability I’m still curious; does the frequency jump suddenly from A to B, or does it ?settle for a bit on a variety of frequencies? or is it a slow change? Don VA3DRL ? ? An update.? I just did another crystal alignment and yet again found the right spot and re-confirmed the crystal oscillator frequency null is at 453.410 KHz.? However, there is no doubt that merely tapping on the crystal – even a tiny bit – causes the null point to noticeably change when the crystal is in use.? Now – to be realistic – that’s what the crystal phasing control is for, and it won’t end up in exactly the same place every time.? If it shifts a little, the phasing control ends up in a different position when you adjust it.? So, for a receiver this old – meh – and probably no one cared back then at this price point.? Nevertheless, I’m going to try replacing the crystal with one that doesn’t jiggle.? Just because. ? 73 – Steve, KW4H ? Perfect. WB4GRA ? On Nov 3, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Jacques_VE2JFE <jacques.f@...> wrote:
? Hi Dan, You wrote: But a loose mounted crystal wafer rattling about and being OK isn't an intuitive conclusion. Like to learn more about that. There is several examples of old radios using a “loose resonator crystal”. The old models of HRO use a plug-in crystal that “rattle” when you shake the holder. Another fairly well explained case is here: Go half-way down the page. ? 73, Jacques, VE2JFE in Montreal
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don Root
Bill (Group Owner)