On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 12:07 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

Note that GMF is a purely user-to-user group: if you want this suggestion to
be seen by Groups.io you'll need to post it in the official "suggestion box":

Thanks for this suggestion. I thought this is the right place to ask.

I met this issue when i wanted to join the group, but I have some group set the same way: both main group and subgroup require approval. that is reasonable situation. Giving up that requirement is not solution. It is perfectly valid to require approval for main group and for subgroup to. Actually I do not remember I saw any other situation.

Later this day, as I recommended other people to join the same group they faced the same issue, plus - they were first time at groups.io, so they actually were unable to finish the process, as it was far to confusing to them. I had to instruct them what to do to be able to join.

I think it is very reasonable to make joining subgroup be merged to single process together with joining main group. Result is the same and it is far less confusing, as people do expect that if they want to join group they simply join. When they see that they cannot join because they are not member of some other group, that really stalls them, as this is very unusual situation they did not met before.

Subgroups are excellent option. It makes things much easier as it allows having all in one organized way instead creating several separate groups. but this issue makes thing quite confusing for users.

Hi all,

This week's change log:


Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

CHANGE: Condensed HTML message footers.

That reminds me I have a Wiki page I need to finish...

CHANGE: For groups not set to reply to group, display the receiver's
email address in the footer.

The purpose is to help with people who ask support to unsubscribe them, but then don't know the address that's subscribed (due to forwarding or general confusion).


I was wondering at first "why not in reply-to-group groups", but I think the answer is: "because sometimes replies quote the whole message, and sometimes the footer doesn't get stripped from such quotes."

CHANGE: For transfers of groups with more than 100,000 messages, we
ask for a year's premium subscription. Otherwise, we'll transfer the
100,000 most recent messages.

There's recently been discussion about this one:
/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/20417057
/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/20440584


Comments about these others are also welcome:

INTERNAL: Lots of optimization work on speeding up the creation of a
new message search index.
SYSADMIN: Built a new search cluster with additional needed capacity.
BUGFIX: When exporting an event with RSVPs that allow additional
guests, show the additional guest numbers.
BUGFIX: Fixed a database connection error with the Elasticsearch
importer that was waking me up at 3am the last couple of nights.
Zzzzzz.
CHANGE: Subscription Options and Muting & Following updates in the
help (thanks Shal and J!).
NEW: Treat 'Cvp:' as the same as Re: in message subjects (it's
Turkish).
CHANGE: Do not permit group names that begin or end in dash.
BUGFIX: The display of groups in the 'Your Groups' dropdown could
sometimes be wrong on the home page, based on how you were sorting
that page.
BUGFIX: Use the subgroup direct add message for direct adds.
Previously we were erroneously using the parent group direct add
message and ignoring any subgroup direct add messages.
BUGFIX: In the transfer interface, improved handling of how we scrape
Yahoo Groups in different languages.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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开云体育

Ilene,

Well my group has just been moved.
It said it moved messages but it did not.

Has this been resolved?
Or can you elaborate on what happened?

Shal


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When you click on a members name in the Members list, it will have the
number in the address bar.

You can also see it by hovering over the Email button on each member's entry in the Directory. Or click there, but remember to discard the draft message if you don't want to send one.
/g/[groupname]/posttosub?dmsubid=2400

Shal


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Sharon,

It is possible as long as there are two email addresses. You sign in
separately for the two accounts.

I meant that if the address has already been set up with its own account, I thought it would not be possible to list that address as an alias of another account.

We deleted the gmail account, BUT I contacted the tech person at the
subscriber’s professional address and discovered that she does have
her professional address forwarded to her gmail address—she didn’t
understand that. I just can’t get her to understand why gmail thus
becomes the sender.

Ah yes. Plenty of opportunity for confusion if the member reads one address' messages via another address' interface. Handy sometimes, but you have to remember what you're doing.

How would an alias work?

An alias in an account lets you send messages via that address, yet have it be treated as a message from the account (the subscribed address). No messages are ever sent to the alias address, only to the subscribed address.

And would it help?

It might.

If she were to keep her professional account as the subscribed address to your group, and then list her gmail address as an alias in her professional address' account. Then messages from the group would go to her professional address, and be forwarded there to her Gmail account. Then when she posted using her Gmail address the alias would cause it to post as being from her professional address.

I’m trying to get her to use a client on her computer like Apple Mail
or Outlook. Then all her mail would be in one place but be able to use
separate addresses.

She can also do that in Gmail's web interface. There is a setup option to retrieve messages from other addresses and display them within Gmail. This also lets you send messages using the Gmail interface but from the other address. You are effectively using your Gmail account as a mail client for the other address(es).

But before doing this she'd want to turn off the forwarding from the Professional address. Trying to do it both ways (push and pull) at the same time would cause confusion.

Her professional mail interface may or may not offer the equivalent functionality. Which way to do it depends on which interface she's more comfortable using, plus any policy or privacy concerns with using her professional interface for other email activity.

Myself I prefer the use of an email client on my PC (was Eudora, now Thunderbird) but that's as much because I grew up pre-webmail as anything else. You and she will have to judge which setup she'll be most comfortable with.

Shal


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Pedja,

it would be good, it user want so join subgroup he is instructed that
it means he will be also join parent group and then do all process in
single iteration.

Makes sense to me. I'm assuming you're talking about either joining through the web site or via the +subscribe email command.

The transfer of a Y!Group to a Groups.io subgroup already works this way: the transfer agent creates both primary and subgroup subscriptions in one step. I don't see offhand a reason why the join flow couldn't do likewise.

The one awkward case I can think of is if the primary group is restricted (requires membership approval) but the subgroup is not. In that case the approval requirement on the primary group must also keep membership in the subgroup pending until membership in the primary group is approved. That might be a bit tricky to implement.

Note that GMF is a purely user-to-user group: if you want this suggestion to be seen by Groups.io you'll need to post it in the official "suggestion box":


Shal


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Jim,

So can ANY one explain this and tell me how to get it fixed ...

I'd examine the URL for both bookmarks to be sure that it isn't decorated with any extra parameters. That is:

1) Method one - I go to groups.io thru a bookmark to all of my groups.

Make sure that bookmark is to / with no additional parameters.

2) Method two - I have a saved bookmark that takes me directly to the
same group.

Make sure that bookmark has no parameters also (nothing beginning with a "?" in the URL). I'm not sure if an URL parameter can force a particular login account, but I'm not sure one couldn't either.

Another possibility is that Chrome is "optimizing" the experience of using the bookmarks by bringing you to an already-open tab or window for that URL (if you have one). If that tab or window is unrefreshed it may have a stale login - effectively logged out, or possibly logged in as a different user. But if this were the case then navigating about (and especially posting a message) should have forced a refresh at some point and either told you to log in again or restored your access to the other features. So I'm not confident of this explanation.

Shal


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Shal . . .

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 11:28:28 -0700, "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@...>
wrote:

One such, who happened not to be moderated and who hadn't posted in the
Y!Group in over a decade, let forth an on-list tirade of profane anger
upon receiving the notices associated with the transfer ("you've been
added" and the group's Welcome notice).

We didn't have any problems like that but I will keep that in mind if
I move any other groups there.

We did have some unsubcribe right after the move though, so they
probably felt like they didn't know what happened.

I did make special notices ahead of and after the move, so those who
had their account set to receive those got a heads up before the move.
Another thing is if you discuss making the move, expect to hear all
kinds of other alternatives. I politely explained that we've been
through this with a few other groups, spent a year researching
alternatives, and felt the move to IO was the best, especially for
people who don't like change much. I also explained that if they did
all their reading and posting by email, they might never know the
difference between IO and Y!G.

I think that allayed some fears about the move.

Donald

The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who
speak it. --Selwyn Duke

Paul,

I'm also on-board with not conacting/inviting the unsubscribed masses;
if they want to come back they'll whine at our Mods, fer sure!

Following up on what Bruce said, my experience has been that a fair fraction of those Y!group members who were set "No email" were people who apparently wanted to unsubscribe, but ran into either technical or confusion problems and were unsuccessful.

One such, who happened not to be moderated and who hadn't posted in the Y!Group in over a decade, let forth an on-list tirade of profane anger upon receiving the notices associated with the transfer ("you've been added" and the group's Welcome notice).

Lesson learned: set No Email members to Moderated before the transfer, just in case. Or else keep the entire Groups.io group moderated for the first few days after the transfer.

Shal


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Hi Bruce,

I can't imagine a scenario where it would be appropriate for a group owner would allow non-members to post while hiding the message archive from them, but maybe I don't have a very good imagination. :-)

I have a couple of groups that are for committees only. Non-committee members sometimes want to say something to the committee members. However, I don’t want the non-members to see the message archive and all the other posts. This works! I just approve the message and then forward anything appropriate to the non-member.

Frances

Barbara,

A member in one of my groups is having email delivery problems (a
comcast address). ...
Looking at the member's account it has a string of "Unable to parse
bounce message", even while being in email contact.

GMF has a couple dozen Comcast subscribers, none of whom are currently bouncing. I looked at a few and most have no bounce history, but I did find one that had that same message in their recent bounces list. But it wasn't all that recent (March).

What can the member, what I can do to help?

Probably nothing directly. It would be a deliverability issue between Groups.io and Comcast.

If the member's history has such an entry that is actually recent (within a day or two) I'd report that to [email protected]. Mark may already be aware of it, but a fresh example (one still in his server logs) may help him track it down.

The SMTP standards have been around a long time, so I'm a bit baffled as to how Groups.io could be unable to parse the response. Maybe a Comcast bug, maybe a Groups.io bug, or maybe something else interfering with the transaction. In any case, it would likely take access to the server logs at Groups.io (and possibly in coordination with Comcast) to resolve it.

Shal


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In addition to Frances' answer, the non-member would be able to read any replies online, assuming the message archives are public.

You can allow non-subscribers to post in Admin->Settings->Message Policies.
Message archive visibility: Admin->Settings->Privacy->Visibility.

I can't imagine a scenario where it would be appropriate for a group owner would allow non-members to post while hiding the message archive from them, but maybe I don't have a very good imagination. :-)

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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I have my groups set to accept emails from non-members (but with moderation). If I approve the message and there are replies from members, that non-member doesn't see the responses. You would have to forward to the non-member. I find that works. It doesn't happen very often though.

Frances

Are you, by chance, using Safari? This is a known bug when using the Safari browser.



Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 06:14 am, Pedja wrote:

it would be good, it user want so join subgroup he is instructed that it means he will be also join parent group and then do all process in single iteration. After all use cannot avoid joining parent group to, so why wasting his time in double process?

The only reason he's waiting to be approved twice is because you set it up that way.?Please consider changing the subgroup to something other than Restricted Membership.?

Admin->Settings->Spam Control.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 05:06 am, B?rbel Stephenson wrote:

A member in one of my groups is having email delivery problems (a comcast address).

If I understand correctly, the account is bouncing? Check for the B status badge in the member's list.

Without a bounce error code, this is hard to troubleshoot. This could be a temporary email server connectivity issue that will resolve itself soon. It sounds like you can email them directly, so it may be an intermediate server between GIO and comcast.

Otherwise, I would try changing to a different message delivery option. I've found that the plain-text digest is the option most likely to get through, but I generally recommend that for "marked as spam" issues, not bouncing issues.

If even that doesn't work, it's time for your subscriber to complain to comcast. At a minimum, they should be able to provide the error code.

Good luck,
Bruce
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Chrome's "incognito mode" doesn't recognize cookies, and you would find yourself logged out. Could it be that Method 1 opens an incognito browser window? Look for the little spy icon in upper left.

Also look for the "Your Groups" pull-down?menu on the blue menu bar at the top of the page. If it isn't there, you aren't logged in.

Finally, some groups allow non-members to post; such posts are always moderated. Check to see if the posts you make using Method 1 are moderated; if so, that's a third big clue that you aren't logged in.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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