开云体育

Hi Duane,

That has been our recommendation all along.

I will do another individual email blast this week.? Beyond that, I think removing them from the membership will finally get their attention.

Thank you all for the guidance.
--
---

CoProS Owner
coprosowner@...

Mon, 07 Aug 2023 08:15:38 -0700, "Duane" <txpigeon@...>, wrote:

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 10:06 AM, Art Kocsis wrote:

BTW: "Groups.io will never remove the last owner."

"will" is better replaced by "should". We all have experienced the
difference between what code "should do" and what actually can occur
(although at this point that would be quite rare). Greg D outlined one
such possibility.

Hasn't happened that I know of.? Mark has all sorts of interlocks to prevent the last owner from being removed.

Duane

Why did it happen to me?

Arno

Mon, 07 Aug 2023 07:51:43 -0700, "Art Kocsis via groups.io"
<ArtKoc@...>, wrote:

I propose a new category for group permissions: Founder.

A founder would have identical rights and permissions as a regular
group owner but with these differences:

? There can be only one founder per group
? Founder status can only be removed or transferred to another by a founder
? Founder status is automatically conferred onto the creator of a new group
? The existence of a founder is not required for a group

[ ... ]

BTW: "Groups.io will never remove the last owner."

"will" is better replaced by "should". We all have experienced the
difference between what code "should do" and what actually can occur

Art

If the Founder is no longer available how can the scenario of in fight amongst
several co-owners and deleting each other be prevented.
In my case the Founder disappeared after making me a moderator with limited
powers. Mark transferred the Yahoogroup in 2017 and made me the owner.

Unless I goofed up on something else, "should" instead of "will" is the reason
for the thread below.

"[GMF] Due to eMail change lost group where I was the only owner"

Arno

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Arno Martens wrote:
Are you still having trouble logging in??
Yes, I do?

Did you sort it out?
No, I did not, that is why I posted here for help.

Arno, obviously your Rogers email address is going through okay with this group.

But to summarize, after changing ISP and email address, you have a group where you cannot log in as owner.
And you were the sole owner.?

You wrote:

--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Mon, 07 Aug 2023 08:47:39 -0700, "Frances" <frances@...>, wrote:

2. Are you still having trouble logging in?

Yes, I do

?Did you sort it out?

No, I did not, that is why I posted here for help.

Arno

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 11:06 AM, Art Kocsis wrote:

Not to be snarky but you could try to explicitly and completely answer the questions posed by people trying to help you. Such as:

? Are there other owners or moderators?
? Can you log onto Groups.io?
? What are the details of the SPAM removal message(s)?
? What can you do and not do with your group?
? Other questions that have been asked or other useful info

The OP has his subscription set to No Mail. This is not new, but I wanted to say that he may not see your suggestions unless he logs into his account.

Frances
?
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Two things:

1. The Member Help page has the info on changing email addresses.
/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/understanding-groups-io-accounts/setting-account-preferences-and-viewing-account-information?single=true

There are some important Notes in the section:

--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

...
Du| Mark has all sorts of interlocks
| to prevent the last owner from
| being removed.


But as we are witnessing, users
always find a creative way to
dodge these attempts to prevent
the last owner from lost control
of a group... :)

It's hard the life of a developer.


[ ] Rubens




.

Mon, 07 Aug 2023 08:13:30 -0700, "Frances" <frances@...>, wrote:

Problem
I was the ONLY owner in one group and, since the notification goes to the
registered owner (albeit to a non existing address), I cannot log in any
longer.

Is this a new problem? Happening now?
Frances

No, it actually happened last year in October.
Became aware yesterday that all groups are changed at the same time. Changed
this morning to my gMail address in case I had used that as a second address and
saw, got notification that all were changed. Changed back again and started this
thread.

Arno

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 10:06 AM, Art Kocsis wrote:

(And still be stuck with automatic payment if that had been setup?)

Won't happen.? A person that is no longer a member of a group cannot be the payor.

I propose a new category for group permissions: Founder.

This has been gone over multiple times from various angles.? Nothing has been done, so I doubt that it's a high priority, if it even exists on the TODO list.

BTW: "Groups.io will never remove the last owner."

"will" is better replaced by "should". We all have experienced the difference between what code "should do" and what actually can occur (although at this point that would be quite rare). Greg D outlined one such possibility.

Hasn't happened that I know of.? Mark has all sorts of interlocks to prevent the last owner from being removed.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 11:10 AM, Arno Martens wrote:

Problem
I was the ONLY owner in one group and, since the notification goes to the
registered owner (albeit to a non existing address), I cannot log in any longer.

Is this a new problem? Happening now?

Frances


?
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Background.
Changed ISP, added new eMail address in one group, made myself the owner and
deleted the old address.
Tried to do the same with a second group and found out that all my other groups
disappeared. I was not aware that the address is being changed in ALL groups if
a change was made in ONE group.

Problem
I was the ONLY owner in one group and, since the notification goes to the
registered owner (albeit to a non existing address), I cannot log in any longer.

I would appreciate any advice about a possibility to rectify that.

Arno

On 08-06-2023 16:51, Jim Allen wrote:

I don't know what else to do but get assistance. I will have to wait for it I guess.

Not to be snarky but you could try to explicitly and completely answer the questions posed by people trying to help you. Such as:

? Are there other owners or moderators?
? Can you log onto Groups.io?
? What are the details of the SPAM removal message(s)?
? What can you do and not do with your group?
? Other questions that have been asked or other useful info

Art

On 08-06-2023 09:40, Jim Allen wrote:

I woke up this morning and am no longer the owner. I had to different emails as such both have been deleted. Why? I want my group back.

My immediate thought was that a rogue co-owner had co-opted the group and had locked the OP out. While this may or may not be the actual case, the possibility exists.

Group ownership has been discussed (and beaten to death?), here and in the beta group.
Some changes were made but, at least for me, not satisfactorily. Orphaned groups continue to pop up - not all due to laziness, procrastination or ignorance of the owners. I suspect many owners are reticent to create co-owners just for this very reason - there is nothing to prevent one owner from locking another owner out and stealing or destroying the group.

In this day and age of internet nasties, nefarious forum attacks/activities may not be at the top of the list but they do exist. These forums, by definition, span the globe and most members/owners have never met face to face. So for a group founder who has nurtured his baby into a viable community and is needing to have the safety of a co-owner, who can he trust? How can he assure that someone he promotes to co-ownership doesn't steal his group? (And still be stuck with automatic payment if that had been setup?) With the current system, he can't. I suspect that that is the main reason a significant number of groups do not have a co-owner and may become orphan groups (with more to come in the future).

I propose a new category for group permissions: Founder.

A founder would have identical rights and permissions as a regular group owner but with these differences:

? There can be only one founder per group
? Founder status can only be removed or transferred to another by a founder
? Founder status is automatically conferred onto the creator of a new group
? The existence of a founder is not required for a group

That should ensure that a group Founder would never be unwillingly locked out of a group he founded. It, hopefully, would also increase the compliance with creating co-owners and decrease orphaned groups. This could be implemented without upsetting the status quo of permissions and ownerships.

To get started, owners of existing groups with a single owner could promote themselves to founder status. For existing groups with a single RL owner but with multiple "owner" addresses, the owner could temporarily demote all "owners" but one in order to establish "Foundership" status. For existing groups with multiple RL owners, a "Founder" is probably not necessary nor desired. To change the address of a Founder, he could create a new regular owner and then transfer "Foundership" status to that address.

Comments?

BTW: "Groups.io will never remove the last owner."

"will" is better replaced by "should". We all have experienced the difference between what code "should do" and what actually can occur (although at this point that would be quite rare). Greg D outlined one such possibility.

Art

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 09:39 AM, Sharon Allen wrote:

It's unfortunate because then they're showing as new members when they've been with me for 19 years.

After they get the 'new' address, they can change email addresses in their account so that they maintain their previous information.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 11:56 PM, Ken Schweizer wrote:

Are we having a Google issue or has my Gmail account having issues?

Two days ago, I had a bunch of mail held up (by Gmail), including all of groups.io's daily digests. They showed up 12 hours later...not sure if it's related.

Regards,
Bruce

---

Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 07:44 PM, coprosowner wrote:

I take it there's no fix and this will be a permanent thing to work around.

I just checked the logs for several groups.? me, mac, and icloud are only intermittently bouncing since July 18, but no more than any other domains.? I believe Mark's fix has resolved the majority of the problems, so it's a matter of getting those bouncing members to unbounce themselves.? There was even one member with a gmail address that was bouncing, which is unusual, but turned out to be over quota on their mailbox.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 10:56 PM, Ken Schweizer wrote:

Are we having a Google issue or has my Gmail account having issues?

It's your gmail account.? The "2.0.0 OK" means that gmail accepted the email from Groups.io.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

I did not Christos but I will.

Thank you for the guidance.
--
---

CoProS Owner
coprosowner@...