Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
@Frank
Abusive people consistently yell, ¡°First Amendment¡± without a clue what is reality. A1 pertains to Government violating free speech, not non-governmental media, groups, newspapers, forums, or social media.
Warning, second warning with moderation, three strikes = you¡¯re out.
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I don¡¯t know what you put down as planned content for your new group.
It is a sad fact that most stationery, tag and other graphic related groups are illegally sharing copyrighted content. ?The copyright compliant groups are a tiny minority (mine is). ? This is why this restriction for new groups was introduced.
Barbara
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On 8 May 2023, at 08:06, ?? Sandy ?? <sandy40boo@...> wrote:
? Of course not. Why would they even assume that? On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 05:23 AM, ?? Sandy ?? wrote:
The reason is that groups dedicated to sharing graphics and stationary are not permitted.
I don't know what that means.
It means Groups.io believes your group would engage in activities that breach its terms of service such as illegally sharring copyright material.
Regards
Andy
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So IF I? get this DON'T?send naughty stuff until?I say it's?ok,? because they will monitor it for? a while
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Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
We have a unmoderated group of 900 parents of offspring with a particular progressive disorder. Our guidelines cover confidentiality, politics, religion, cursing and flaming. In 25 years we rarely have had an issue. One member thought we were too up-tight and started a group with looser guidelines. It quickly died on the vine.
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When people understand what the focus of a group is and the rules of the "game" they choose to stay or leave. Most people appreciate not having to deal with the drama of off-topic threads. In those rare times of discord I put the group on moderation and control the dialogue to re-center the group. It's not a democracy, the moderators decide and if it is a fundamental enough issue the original owner makes the call.
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Paul
On 05/08/2023 12:01 AM PDT Sarah Shapiro <sarahseventytwo@...> wrote:
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Placing all members on moderated status is the solution, if a nuisance.? If the group is large and active, then having several moderators may be needed.? I think having an unmoderated group is really impossible unless it is a very small group where everyone knows and perhaps loves each other!? Even in an international group I am in that shares Wordle results (without sharing solutions) American politics has crept in!
I set an individual account to moderated for violation of the policy
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Of course not. Why would they even assume that?
On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 05:23 AM, ?? Sandy ?? wrote:
The reason is that groups dedicated to sharing graphics and stationary are not permitted.
I don't know what that means.
It means Groups.io believes your group would engage in activities that breach its terms of service such as illegally sharring copyright material.
Regards
Andy
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Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
Placing all members on moderated status is the solution, if a nuisance.? If the group is large and active, then having several moderators may be needed.? I think having an unmoderated group is really impossible unless it is a very small group where everyone knows and perhaps loves each other!? Even in an international group I am in that shares Wordle results (without sharing solutions) American politics has crept in!
I set an individual account to moderated for violation of the policy
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Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
Your group, your rules. Don't like them? Leave or get kicked out. End stop.
Paul
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On 05/07/2023 1:40 PM PDT Donald Hellen <donhellen@...> wrote:
Frank . . .
On Sun, 07 May 2023 11:47:24 -0700, "Frank via groups.io"
<feync@...> wrote:
Two problems -- I set an individual account to moderated for violation of the policy - personal attacks on another resident. That person is screaming about a violation of 1st Amendment right. Since the group is private with a stated policy, I do not believe this applies. An opinion would be a right, a personal attack that violates the policy is not? I'm no lawyer, but this seems consistent with all social media. Groups.io are private groups. The group owner sets the rules and enforces them.
It's not a democracy, so there are no first amendment rights involved. You are
free to set rules as you see fit. You have the right to put anyone on moderation
and even ban the person if you choose to do so. The complainer is free to go
join another group that will tolerate him if he wants to, or he can start his
own group.
I've banned only a few for picking on others or using profanity after a warning.
You don't even have to give a warning if you don't want to.
Donald
----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP
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On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 05:23 AM, ?? Sandy ?? wrote:
The reason is that groups dedicated to sharing graphics and stationary are not permitted.
I don't know what that means.
It means Groups.io believes your group would engage in activities that breach its terms of service such as illegally sharring copyright material. Regards Andy
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I'm trying to start another? group (4 tries now) but each time I've gotten this email:? This is an automated message. Your group?[email protected]?has been denied.The reason is that groups dedicated to sharing graphics and stationary are not permitted. I don't know?what?that means?
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Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
Frank . . . On Sun, 07 May 2023 11:47:24 -0700, "Frank via groups.io" <feync@...> wrote: Two problems -- I set an individual account to moderated for violation of the policy - personal attacks on another resident. That person is screaming about a violation of 1st Amendment right. Since the group is private with a stated policy, I do not believe this applies. An opinion would be a right, a personal attack that violates the policy is not? I'm no lawyer, but this seems consistent with all social media. Groups.io are private groups. The group owner sets the rules and enforces them. It's not a democracy, so there are no first amendment rights involved. You are free to set rules as you see fit. You have the right to put anyone on moderation and even ban the person if you choose to do so. The complainer is free to go join another group that will tolerate him if he wants to, or he can start his own group. I've banned only a few for picking on others or using profanity after a warning. You don't even have to give a warning if you don't want to. Donald ---------------------------------------------------- Some ham radio groups you may be interested in: /g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng/g/CHIRP
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Re: dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
Comments? ?Is a procedure to set someone to moderated a reasonable response?
Is there a way to detect an active hack attempt on the group?
We have an ¡°no policy discussion¡± policy for my housing group. I put people to moderate but rarely. I am more likely to lock topics with a notice that says that the topic has either run out of steam or is veering into policy discussions and it suggests contacting the group owner.?
if need to, I ask the rest of the group about it.?
I sometimes preemptively put a thread to moderate if I think it is going to move into policy. I can allow appropriate questions ir comments through.?
We haven¡¯t had any group takeover attempts.?
However someone tried to use chitchat in another group in a potential legal case. No follow up.?
However my groups all have privacy footers, reiterate that it is not an official forum if our organization ?
Frances
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.
?
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dealing with problem members #problem-member - violation of stated group policy
#problem-member
Hello, I'm an owner and moderator for a group whose members consist of residents of our subdivision for quite some time now. ? Initially, postings were somewhat out of control but eventually calmed down and changed to unmoderated. ?This group has a stated policy:
"A social group for residents of Whitehart, Raleigh, Wake County, North Carolina only?
For talking about our neighborhood and being actively a part of it.
The Whitehart Group Email is unmoderated however it shall be used for "positive, constructive purposes only." ?
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1) Helping neighbors
2) General communication and announcements
3) For Sale by Neighbors to Neighbors
4) Recommended Businesses for repair and maintenance
5) Services to help other Neighbors
6) Neighborhood watch and general security
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Complaints/Concerns other than this list must be forwarded to TownSQ at the Management Company for tracking and action.
? ? ? ? This list is not an "official" channel for communications to/from residents from the BoD."
Two problems -- I set an individual account to moderated for violation of the policy - personal attacks on another resident. ?That person is screaming about a violation of 1st Amendment right. ?Since the group is private with a stated policy, I do not believe this applies. ?An opinion would be a right, a personal attack that violates the policy is not? ?I'm no lawyer, but this seems consistent with all social media.
The second is this individual has, in the past, tried to hack into the group to take over ownership. ?He was a member of the HOA Board at the time. ?The owners and moderators have been board members off and on, but as per policy the list is distanced itself, as there are other "official" methods of communication.
Comments? ?Is a procedure to set someone to moderated a reasonable response?
Is there a way to detect an active hack attempt on the group?
Thanks!
Frank
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Re: Member email address change on our group changed it on & notified another group
Much ado about nothing?
What do you group owners who think their privacy is in some way breached, do about a subscriber who happens to share or forward one of your emails to a non group subscriber?
Or for anyone who you email, there is nothing to stop them passing on or sharing your email address
Your email address will be included and you have no idea who gets it and may share it on again, with groups.io change of a subscribers email address it will only go as a notification to another group owner
Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)
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Re: Member email address change on our group changed it on & notified another group
Hi Dave,
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If the desired resolution is to have Groups.IO?users manage their own accounts which apply globally across all groups remove moderator access to modify their account.?
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For example in MS Teams a moderator of one team can¡¯t globally change user account settings (their login credential) of a user across all teams, only the user or an AD admin of the domain the user is a member can do so.
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If an admin changes the user ?account information that change is neither broadcast nor is the originating admin name & user account info sent to other MS Teams owners in other organizations.
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An easy way to fix the issue if Groups.IO continues to allow moderators to change user account settings is to notify no one other than the user the change has been made to their account and the group from which the change has originated as an additional validation step (AKA ¡°user, your account has been changed, did you ask for that change to be made¡±).?
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If it¡¯s required by Groups.IO to notify all groups that user is a member of that their email address has been changed by a moderator is to notify everyone that it¡¯s been changed suppressing the source admin name and username.?
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It¡¯s not clear to me what the justification or need is to notify other moderators of a non-user generated account change in the first place but sending out admin (moderator) account info into the ether to a number of unknown persons isn¡¯t a sound security practice, regardless of the composition of the moderators email address.
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I¡¯m my case my information was used by other admins to contact me directly to ask how I changed a user in their group. They were worried about a hack/security exploit. I didn¡¯t provide this information to them, Groups.IO did without my knowledge, and the admins that did contact me had no idea that their changing a user account would notify other group admins forwarding their name and email address in the process.
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As this wasn¡¯t documented but I was contacted I know no better, will refrain from making changes to user accounts. If the people we add - many of whom never log into groups.IO, a primary reason we use it - can¡¯t manage their own accounts we¡¯ll help them, teach them how or allow them to drop out of the system.
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Have a great weekend.
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[Ad removed by moderator]
Gentlepersons involved,
It is sad that an event created by a person (a moderator or owner), using an unusual and unintended way, modifying with authorisation or not (the account email) of a 'member' has created their own issue with which they disagree vehemently.
I see no reason for BUA using these groups to be 'manage their account for them' as that is in itself a form of privacy breach [ie you don't own the people/ members, not their personal information] - yet have total control over that entity. Exceptional circumstances, yes a backdoor required, but not otherwise.
Creating a solution may be easy- however creating the problem was even easier- an unintended use of private accounts.
Should the feature be anonymised as requested/ demanded, then other problems will likely occur.
It is perfectly appropriate for 'traceable' assets to be shown when such changes are made.
Would you accept this as 'the norm' for any society, business or other venture, beyond 'admins' with license to modify?
Respectfully,
davew
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Re: Member email address change on our group changed it on & notified another group
Please see this from Duane:
As a final followup, I found the discussing the procedure involved. ?That topic is now moderated, but you can join beta and submit additional thoughts if you want.
Frances
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-- Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.
?
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Re: Member email address change on our group changed it on & notified another group
Gentlepersons involved,
It is sad that an event created by a person (a moderator or owner), using an unusual and unintended way, modifying with authorisation or not (the account email) of a 'member' has created their own issue with which they disagree vehemently.
I see no reason for BUA using these groups to be 'manage their account for them' as that is in itself a form of privacy breach [ie you don't own the people/ members, not their personal information] - yet have total control over that entity. Exceptional circumstances, yes a backdoor required, but not otherwise.
Creating a solution may be easy- however creating the problem was even easier- an unintended use of private accounts.
Should the feature be anonymised as requested/ demanded, then other problems will likely occur.
It is perfectly appropriate for 'traceable' assets to be shown when such changes are made.
Would you accept this as 'the norm' for any society, business or other venture, beyond 'admins' with license to modify?
Respectfully,
davew
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Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info.? Looks like we've got it working.
I would note that, in my tests, the Pending Subscription email does not arrive until the applicant replies to the confirmation email.? I'm not sure if you're saying that it should be arriving concurrently?
Best
On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 12:04?PM Chris Jones via <chrisjones12= [email protected]> wrote: On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 04:38 PM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote:
Generally, the individual would send a message to?[email protected]?with some specified questions answered.
No. That email address is solely to trigger the joining process. A response to the Pending Subscription Message goes to your +owner email address; it will also appear in your Activity log.
Looking at your subsequent message:?
1) A new member applies and confirms?their membership.?
It depends on whether or not they were logged into their Account at the time of the application. If they were. then Groups.io knows that the application is genuine and no confirmation is required. (Somewhat simplified answer!)
2) They receive the Pending Subscription message which would ask for the required?information.
They may well receive the pending subscription message along with any confirmation message. Confirmation is not a prerequisite.
3) Their reply would then be viewable by the moderators?
Yes, subject to each individual moderator having the correct notification settings. As stated above the response to a Pending Subscription Message also appears in the Activity log.
Chris?
-- Ken Sharp-Knott Manager of Analytical Services and the NMR Facility Department of Chemistry? Virginia Tech
(540)267-6502 (Cell) (540)231-0885 (Office)
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Thanks Bruce.? That was very helpful.? I think we've got it set up correctly now and it's working well.
Best
On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 11:38 AM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote (to Duane):
Generally, the individual would send a message to?[email protected]?with some specified questions answered.
This approach will not achieve your objective, as a message sent to the +subscribe address is not stored or forwarded. They serve only to initiate the subscription.
?
On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 11:39 AM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote (to Chris):
Given that, perhaps the workflow I imagined would be altered as such...
?
1) A new member applies and confirms?their membership.??
2) They receive the Pending Subscription message which would ask for the required?information
This is the way such things are normally handled via the Pending Subscription notice. See the wiki entry at?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/8155?and also the FAQ at?/helpcenter/faq/1/group-owner-moderator-faq/q-can-i-screen-prospective-members-who?
3) Their reply would then be viewable by the moderators?
Yes. Such a reply goes to the +owner address, not the +subscribe address; and is available in the "+Owner Messages" section of their member record. It is also forwarded to each Moderator who chooses to receive +owner messages?in his own Subscription settings.?
Ref:?/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/sending-and-receiving-group-owner-email-messages/receiving-and-viewing-messages-sent-to-the?
Finally, please note that anyone you invite to the group will not be sent a Pending Subscription notice, and will be let into the group right away without going through Pending status. It's presumed that you must have vetted such people in some other manner, otherwise you wouldn't have invited them.
Regards,
Bruce
______________________
Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual
-- Ken Sharp-Knott Manager of Analytical Services and the NMR Facility Department of Chemistry? Virginia Tech
(540)267-6502 (Cell) (540)231-0885 (Office)
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On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 04:38 PM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote:
Generally, the individual would send a message to?[email protected]?with some specified questions answered.
No. That email address is solely to trigger the joining process. A response to the Pending Subscription Message goes to your +owner email address; it will also appear in your Activity log. Looking at your subsequent message:? 1) A new member applies and confirms?their membership.?It depends on whether or not they were logged into their Account at the time of the application. If they were. then Groups.io knows that the application is genuine and no confirmation is required. (Somewhat simplified answer!) 2) They receive the Pending Subscription message which would ask for the required?information.They may well receive the pending subscription message along with any confirmation message. Confirmation is not a prerequisite. 3) Their reply would then be viewable by the moderators?
Yes, subject to each individual moderator having the correct notification settings. As stated above the response to a Pending Subscription Message also appears in the Activity log.
Chris?
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On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 11:38 AM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote (to Duane):
Generally, the individual would send a message to?[email protected]?with some specified questions answered.
This approach will not achieve your objective, as a message sent to the +subscribe address is not stored or forwarded. They serve only to initiate the subscription. ? On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 11:39 AM, Kenneth Sharp-Knott wrote (to Chris):
Given that, perhaps the workflow I imagined would be altered as such...
?
1) A new member applies and confirms?their membership.??
2) They receive the Pending Subscription message which would ask for the required?information
This is the way such things are normally handled via the Pending Subscription notice. See the wiki entry at? /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/8155?and also the FAQ at? /helpcenter/faq/1/group-owner-moderator-faq/q-can-i-screen-prospective-members-who?
3) Their reply would then be viewable by the moderators?
Yes. Such a reply goes to the +owner address, not the +subscribe address; and is available in the "+Owner Messages" section of their member record. It is also forwarded to each Moderator who chooses to receive +owner messages?in his own Subscription settings.? Ref:? /helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/sending-and-receiving-group-owner-email-messages/receiving-and-viewing-messages-sent-to-the? Finally, please note that anyone you invite to the group will not be sent a Pending Subscription notice, and will be let into the group right away without going through Pending status. It's presumed that you must have vetted such people in some other manner, otherwise you wouldn't have invited them. Regards, Bruce ______________________
Check out the groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual
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KWKloeber
B?rbel Stephenson
Andy Wedge
Frances
Frank
Nivard Ovington
Bruce