I would just pre-ban her proactively.

Donald

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 16:38:32 -0600 (Central Standard Time), "Leeni"
<leeniluvsgroups2@...> wrote:

Now I understand she joined some of the other groups again, but has not joined my group. I wasn't going to let her in if she tried, but I did chuckle when I read your statement, let her in and a week later remove and ban her LOL. I liked that idea!!!

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM /g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp /g/Baofeng
/g/CHIRP

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 09:26 PM, Michael Pavan wrote:

Clearly this is important concern and no solution has been enacted, though
some improvements have been made since the last time I got involved in this
debate.

We will need to take this to <beta> , in due time when Mark isn't too busy

Some Owners object because they think it is unnecessary and/or don't want it
for their group.

My suggestion was to at least clearly imply it: if you want your group to die with you, don't appoint a moderator. If you want your group to continue, do appoint a moderator. Making it explicit would be better

As it would be quite difficult for Mark&co to figure out who is dead, maybe just allow succession-requests no sooner than when the original owner has not been active in any group for 2 or 3 months, and have them step in to ask the group whether anybody has objections to promoting the moderator to owner

For those who don't want an Owner Succession feature enabled it should
be easy to Opt-Out - this relieves Groups.io management from having to become
involved in the issue, because the Owner has already made the decision.

exactly
groetjes/?is, Ronaldo

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Okay, I didn't go as far as putting it?on my group's page and clicking it to see what it says once I do. I do like the wording once you click on it much better. But I do think an explanation for basic free groups?could have something along those?lines to??go along with the green button before someone clicks it. As far as me making a suggestion to the beta group on it, I won't do it. All of my suggestions and ideas made on the beta group are ignored. So if someone here thinks it is a good idea, maybe you can make that suggestion, or I will just live with that button grayed out and not put it on my Free Basic Groups. But I will look for a group with a green button and make a donation myself as I think it is a great way to contribute something. Leeni ? ? ? ? ? ?

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On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 03:47 PM, Art Kocsis wrote:

Simply restrict owner deletion/demotion solely to the owner account: an owner can only demote him/her self. While an owner can promote another to owner status it would be a one-way street - no owner could demote another owner.

That's almost how it works now.? If you didn't allow any other owner to demote a malicious owner, the group would probably be gone in no time.? That's the reason it's set up the way it is.? All of this is covered in the Owners Manual.

Duane
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You must go into your Settings and enable the function. See the picture within the thread below. It took me a minute to find the checkbox. But once you find it - I populates and is on your cover/main page.

On 01-13-2021 11:52, Michael Pavan wrote:

On Jan 13, 2021, at 12:01 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:53 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
- it does not allow the Moderator to Delete Group
But with all permissions, they can do the next best thing - lock

down the group and/or remove all members.

Case in point for regular backups (group data exports)!

However my primary concern, which I believe most share, is for a group to be able to continue with a new Owner. Currently there is not enough protection for an Owner to be comfortable in many/most cases to have multiple Owners

FOBLO (Fear of Being Locked Out), is a real thing and could be easily assuaged. Simply restrict owner deletion/demotion solely to the owner account: an owner can only demote him/her self. While an owner can promote another to owner status it would be a one-way street - no owner could demote another owner. While that would not prevent a malicious owner from causing havoc it would preclude an original owner from losing control of the group.

Alternatively (or in addition to), assigning special status flags to owners could alleviate some problems:
Founder owner - the creator of a group - cannot be deleted except by the founder himself
Funding owner - the owner of the CC on file that made/makes premium payments
Designated successor owner - to be promoted to Founding(?) owner upon a TBD trigger

FOBLO would be especially worrisome for a Funding Owner under the scenario of being locked out while his credit card is still on file for automatic payments that he cannot terminate. (without closing his CC account which has serious credit score repercussions).

While these would not solve all of the problems, mitigating a large source of dangers should encourage more/most group owners to create/designate successors and reduce the number of orphaned groups on GIO.

Art

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 02:26 PM, Michael Pavan wrote:

Yes those Groups whose Owner choose to Opt-Out would be 'out of luck' by their Owner's decision, if and when they might be plagued with the need.

BUT, no owner is needed if there is a moderator with all permissions, so they could still operate the group.? No need to opt in or out, just set up a moderator.? I don't see what would be gained by having a succession feature.? Any owner could appoint a moderator like that without fear of being tossed out and the group could continue.

I'm not saying Mark wouldn't consider it, but don't see a need as things stand, so he could spend his time on more pressing things.

Duane
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?? Hello Duane, Sandi D.

??? Thank you both so very very much for responding to my request for assistance.

???? I did receive a reply from Mark that he downgraded my group to Basic and will be removing the $220 charge.? Which is great.? So of course I will not be disputing anything.? And will soon be upgrading to the $20 / month Premium.

? To explain what I think took place:
???? My first month of $20 Premium - to be downgraded to free - was up yesterday and I did want to and intended to cancel the downgrade and just let the monthly ride.?? But somehow that did not happen - I could not clearly see how to select it and somehow there I was with the annual fee "Succeeded".?? Pretty much every time I have purchased something online, there is a CONFIRMATION / Are you Sure?? Selection.?? I do not believe that selection was available - it just happened - and I can't go back to re create the steps.

???? Yes, I am part of the migration from yahoo.

????? Its real nice to know that this forum exists and that it is active and truly helpful and caring.? What a nice find these days.

?????? kind regards,
??????? - Marilyn -

Ken,

Clearly this is important concern and no solution has been enacted, though some improvements have been made since the last time I got involved in this debate.

Some Owners object because they think it is unnecessary and/or don't want it for their group. I support that they should be able to choose not to have it for their group, but not to block others (or argue that others) should be able to have it for their group.

In general I believe features should be Opt-In, but some features should be required, e.g. Spam Control (which requires 'at least one of these options set'). For those who don't want an Owner Succession feature enabled it should be easy to Opt-Out - this relieves Groups.io management from having to become involved in the issue, because the Owner has already made the decision. Yes those Groups whose Owner choose to Opt-Out would be 'out of luck' by their Owner's decision, if and when they might be plagued with the need.

On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:52 PM, KWKloeber via groups.io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

How would you see the succession triggering?

Obviously if there were only an owner passing the torch that’s easy. But a deceased sole owner, where “everyone” wants the group to continue? I question how that could occur automatically without gio intervention or flipping a switch.

It’s similar to a medical power of attorney - it takes someone to determine the person is incapacitated (i.e., unable for whatever reason to continue as owner, thus triggering the next one(s) in line obtaining ALL privileges/rights.)

Here's the link to one of my messages (in a thread of 79 messages) that answers your questions
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/29326
(Moderator powers have been modified since then, improving but not solving the problem.)

If you make further searches on GMF and beta, you will find more discussions.

Then, fill us in on what your proposal is...
We need light, not heat.

Thanks,
Michael

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Duane,

On Jan 13, 2021, at 12:01 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 10:53 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
- it does not allow the Moderator to Delete Group
But with all permissions, they can do the next best thing - lock down the group and/or remove all members.

An Owner Succession feature could include Delete Group, Lock Group, and Remove All Members as options...

However my primary concern, which I believe most share, is for a group to be able to continue with a new Owner.
Currently there is not enough protection for an Owner to be comfortable in many/most cases to have multiple Owners, or to designate who (or how) a Moderator or Member would be promoted to Owner should all current Owner(s) be on the same Bus/Plane that crashes with no survivors (or perish from getting COVID, perhaps at the same gathering)...

Those who say such a thing couldn't happen forget that whole teams have perished in plane crashes, or that Pearl Harbor, 9/11, or such tragedies have occurred.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 07:43 AM, Leeni wrote:

It?was only?after a member, who had no business writing what she did to my group, told the group that?Groups IO will be charging groups?with over 100 members and she was leaving and going over to MeWe and then gave the link to her new group that I had to say something to my groups because many of them were in panic mode. I?was getting mail from them asking me if I knew what was happening and if I heard such a thing. So rather then write everyone individually?who was inquiring I ended up saying something to my groups. ? ? What she left out was it was for "newly created groups after Jan 18th" and my groups and every other group in existence right now would be grandfathered in. ? Leeni ?

? ?

?Leeni - I would not let this go unaddressed. If you have contact info for this idiot you should let her know that she is wrong and that she caused undue alarm for your group(s). A little shame goes a long way.

Then if she comes back let her stay for a week or so and then ban her out of spite. <grin>