On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 07:21 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

One of the members in one of my groups asked me about this yesterday. Starting yesterday morning, from another Groups.io group he belongs to, he began to receive multiple copies of the same daily digest. He's gotten about twelve copies of the identical digest, all with the same date/time stamp- August 4th at 6:06am EDST.

This is normal. Daily digests are usually sent at around 6:00 am local time (or shortly thereafter).

The latest one he received -- still time stamped 6:06am -- was last night at 8:59pm EDST. He asked me if I had heard about this problem, was it a Groups.io issue?

Unlikely. If groups.io sent him 12 copies of the same digest at 6:06, his provider should have received all of them at 6:07.

In his mail reader, he should click the "View Source" or "Show Original" or whatever button is available to display the raw message (including the header). Then paste the header of one of the late digests into the analyzer found at?? Whichever server is holding up these late digests is the source of the problem.

One final thought:? If this problem is happening with all his emails, he may have a mail client misconfigured. Messages need to be marked as "read" on the server at the time of download; if this is not done, and his client fails to reject messages having the same Message-ID, the same messages will show up repeatedly every time he connects.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

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On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 07:21 AM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

What are Dummyfiles? (and why are they there, "unnamed" (so to say))?

Using the online message editor, if you embed an image via the "add pictures" (or "add attachments") dialog, the associated mime part (and the image in Emailed Photos) is given the actual file name. If you instead paste in an image directly from your clipboard, no file name is available, so groups.io assigns these "dummyfile" names in sequence (0 for the 1st one in the message, 1 for the second, etc).

These same embedded images can then propagate in replies if the person replying fails to remove them.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

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One of the members in one of my groups asked me about this yesterday. Starting yesterday morning, from another Groups.io group he belongs to, he began to receive multiple copies of the same daily digest. He's gotten about twelve copies of the identical digest, all with the same date/time stamp- August 4th at 6:06am EDST. The latest one he received -- still time stamped 6:06am -- was last night at 8:59pm EDST. He asked me if I had heard about this problem, was it a Groups.io issue? I told him I had never heard of this problem and an archive search of this group didn't produce anything relevant.

Is this likely to be a problem with his email provider? He uses Network Solutions.

tommy0421

In our Emailed pix album,.I am seeing a ton of "Dummyfile.n[=1,2,3, etc].jpg
I see the same thing in the GMF album.

What are Dummyfiles? (and why are they there, "unnamed" (so to say))?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 03:22 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:

Remember, it is not uncommon for people to
be off-line continuously for a period of two or three weeks (e.g. on holiday)

In this day and age, I think it's more uncommon for someone to be offline more than a few days (hours?) than to be offline for a couple of weeks. ;>)

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

Here are some headers from message #33183 in this thread. (These are NOT from the July 29 message that Valimail flagged--I don't have those headers, unfortunately.) Looks like this one would have passed DMARC (both SPF and DKIM), which leaves me even more puzzled about the failure on July 29:

Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 66.175.222.12)
?smtp.mailfrom=groups.io; mydomain.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified)
?header.d=groups.io;mydomain.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none
?header.from=groups.io;compauth=pass reason=109

Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of groups.io designates
?66.175.222.12 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com;
?client-ip=66.175.222.12; helo=web01.groups.io;

From: "Mark Berry via groups.io" <myuser@...>

DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=groups.io;
?q=dns/txt; s=20140610; t=1596580172;
?bh=quMW+/DLKq5/btYnRH7JLc0nNWFrv56txjhRwvbsWN0=;
?h=Content-Type:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To;
?b=DntI2eqhvN4xxekqtKPm+h8zB5A7tPoc7BSpNtwxs6SZVASg9BdKBm4D3InxVeE8VCR
?Y9OP9Zu64+VTGKx51iCAQIkaCcrjMTpMWNwvak2EbMOvBkDG3ihd7Jy+2nGJWqCet1gd4
?jQSNGxyiHe0apAKf78Fn9VmSTH2/q0aasN4=

Chris, I'm not really looking for perfection in a provider, but we do need the system to be functional for people with disabilities. This is not just a 'worthwhile enterprise' but a requirement. Not only is disability access a matter of law, but not doing so would defeat the purpose of my groups. It would be like having a group for photographers, without the ability to share images. The people with disabilities in my groups are not theoretical, but the very people my groups serve.

Isis

My domain's mail is hosted on Exchange/Office 365. I'm in the process of setting up DMARC on this domain. Currently it's in pass-through mode; mail is delivered but I can see aggregate reports of mail that would fail.

The aggregator (Valimail) is telling me that groups.io tried to send a message from my domain and it would have failed DMARC because neither the DKIM nor the SPF is allowed.



My groups.io profile says that because I'm on Exchange, headers will be re-written, which I thought was supposed to work around the DMARC restriction. Oddly, I don't think I've posted anything on groups.io from this domain in the last week, so I can't even figure out what email failed DMARC.

Another service I use, SendGrid, provided CNAME records for me to add to DNS so they could sign mail on my behalf. Yet another service offers SPF changes that I could make so at least SPF would pass. It seems like I've seen some info on excluding a domain from DMARC. Does groups.io have instructions for users who are setting up DMARC on their own domains?

Thanks,

Mark

Thanks for the reply Duane.

That sounds like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. If that were a serious (i.e.
common) problem, then it would be covered by checking for the person having
been banned before processing the click on the link in the message. That way
all the people who cannot, for whatever reason, react within the short time
allowed would not be inconvenienced. Remember, it is not uncommon for people to
be off-line continuously for a period of two or three weeks (e.g. on holiday),
or even longer in cae of serious illness.

Jim

Thanks for the reply Nivard, but that seems to me to be a non-problem. Clicking
the link gives renewed access to the original email address owner. It would
only give access to someone else if they have hacked into the email service, in
which case they have access to the Groups.io account anyway

Jim

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:26 AM, Samuel Murray wrote:

What are the current options or strategies for having a Groups.io group "follow" a Facebook group?

Since the demise of the FB integration (which would only pick up public posts - so anything requiring a login was not supported) that was , I've not seen anything that would work.

Andy

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 02:28 PM, isis feral wrote:

I'm not exactly writing Groups.io off as a result. I'm certainly not moving my groups.

I should sincerely hope not on both points.

But for the type of groups I tend to take care of, with many people with disabilities and limited technical skills, it's something that will likely make me go elsewhere next time I need to start one.

Ultimately I suspect that that approach will fail. While making every effort to accommodate those "with disabilities and limited technical skills" is clearly a worthwhile enterprise, I think it is a mistake to work on the assumption that it is possible to use much of "the internet" without at least some degree of ongoing learning and adapting to change. You only need to look at the Groups.io Changelog (via the "Updates" Group) to realise that a lot of changes can take place over a week / month / year, etc; at least the groups.io changes tend to be of greater impact on Owners and Moderators rather than rank and file members who may not even realise that something has changed.

Another flaw is that no group (and I don't just mean a Groups.io group) cannot operate in isolation from the wider internet ecosystem. There are countless ISPs and in some respects each of them has a unique relationship with a "group provider", and to complicate matters further they may use third party carriers to handle their traffic. Furthermore although my ISP provides me with a mail service in reality that mail service is provided by yet another third party provider. Any of the actors in the great play can introduce "improvements" that actually degrade the service that some customers receive; at some point last year my ostensible provider? changed one of their providers and the result that emails sent to addresses of the form [email protected] systematically misrouted. (You should note that groups.io uses that address format a lot) That format with a "+" in it is a perfectly legitimate one, but somehow a service provider that was not visible to the end users managed to screw things up, and it took months to resolve.

So by all means keep searching for the "perfect provider"; just don't expect it to remain perfect for very long, never mind forever.

Chris

Hello everyone

What are the current options or strategies for having a Groups.io group "follow" a Facebook group?? I'm considering creating a Facebook group for members of my Groups.io group who might want to chat via Facebook as well (and so that other people who don't want to join the Groups.io group can join the Facebook group instead), but I would like the mailing list people to be notified when there are new Facebook posts.? In the worst case, I'd post a weekly "What's new on our Facebook group" post manually to the mailing list, but since our group is an ask-and-answer type of group, it would be nice to get more immediate or more automated notifications.

What are various things I can try?

Thanks
Samuel

Bill, I wish I had a good list of providers, or more precisely, a list of good providers, but pretty much every one I've come across has one limitation or another. So I have to decide which limitations are least likely to be a problem for the people in my groups.

For the groups with a lot of people with disabilities that make technology difficult for them, I've had to hold my nose and go to Google Groups, because it's one of the only options that allows manual adding of members. Dealing with invites may seem easy for many, but it's not for everyone, and I've not been able to get a couple of people into my Gio groups because they just can't get through that process.

Otherwise I tend to still prefer Groups.io. I stay away from Yahoo Groups altogether now, because the lack of digest option and archives is a deal breaker. I've also worked with some Mailman lists that were provided by people who had accounts with various providers, but because of the cost have seen some of them go by the wayside when people ran out of money, and then all the archives and work we shared were nuked (reminiscent of Yahoo). I helped with one Mailman groups that was provided as a favor by a friend to a friend, and there we've ended up being a bit at the mercy of someone else's whims. There are various political groups that provide list services, but I would only go there if everyone in the group is aligned with the specific politics of the provider, which doesn't happen all that often.

I know there were other options some years back when I was looking for alternatives, and for the most part it seemed that they would not likely survive, so I didn't even try. Most of them I was never able to find again. Other email list providers have been trying to match social media platforms, which I have zero interest in, but there seem to be more and more of those around.

Sorry, no comprehensive list here, but those have been my thoughts about the various alternatives I've researched over the years for the communities that I work with, who tend to have specific needs that I have to accommodate.

Isis

On 03-Aug-20 9:24 AM, isis feral via groups.io wrote:

I'm not exactly writing Groups.io off as a result. I'm certainly not moving my groups. But for the type of groups I tend to take care of, with many people with disabilities and limited technical skills, it's something that will likely make me go elsewhere next time I need to start one.

I'd be interested to see your list of alternative providers.

--
Bill

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 05:59 PM, Tim Morris wrote:

applicants were getting a daily summary sent to them before being approved.

recently, someone that did not get my automated email, has suddenly become a member subsequent to me sending them an email manually!

i have to admit to finding the system really frustrating, possibly due to my own lack of time to figure out what’s happening exactly....

Tim, I am assuming:
- you have a Restricted group.
- the person used the Join this Group link on your group homepage or emailed to Subscribe. You did not invite them. You did not direct add them.
- you have set up a Pending Subscription Notice. And it is active. ?/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-member-notices/pending-subscription-notice
- you receive email to the "+owner" address -?/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/sending-and-receiving-group-owner-email-messages/overview

You can go the Member name in Admin. Click on it. Click on Activity History. It will tell you who approved the membership. If you go to +owner Messages, you can see what the new member wrote in response to your Pending Subscription Notice (where you asked questions, etc.)

Here are the instructions for approving members -?/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-members/handling-pending-members

Frances


?
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GMF wiki for help.?Search box at the top of each page.

Check out the?new groups.io Help Center??Use your browser to search or download?the PDF.

John, there's really no need to defend Groups.io from me. I came here because I was impressed with Mark, even before the Yahoo Groups exodus. And I already acknowledged that I appreciate the technical explanations of why this is happening, and that this is not some personal pet policy of Mark's. I still think it's a rotten deal, but I understand now that it's not specific to Groups.io.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease, Duane and Bruce, about it not being likely I'll be kicked out as the owner.

My spam filter experience in my Yahoo mail is that even Yahoo Groups mail ends up there, which I find wildly ironic. You'd think Yahoo could recognize its own mailings. So yeah, not a fan of the spam filters, and I wish I could switch them off. I do plan on getting away from Yahoo in the not too far off future, and hope that whatever provider I pick is much less dysfunctional, as well as doesn't trigger any spam behaviors in any systems anywhere, but time will tell.

Isis

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Michael,?

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Check out the?new groups.io Help Center??Use your browser to search or download?the PDF.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 06:30 PM, Douglas Swearingen wrote:

I use outlook.live.com, which used to be hotmail.? I would not put them on a list of not receiving messages into the spam folder.

Just about any email provider will -- sooner or later -- filter a groups.io message based on some computer algorithm and redirect it to your junk mail folder. "Me too" and "I agree" messages are particularly prone to such "false positives."

The list of email providers on the cited wiki page are those?known to?actually report such messages back to groups.io via?. This list is not exhaustive and I'm sure there are others.

Regards,
Bruce

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