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Remember too that (under U.S. law) copyright enforcement is
primarily about the commercial value of the work. If the work
has no commercial value then there are no damages to be
recovered in an infringement suit (statutory damages are only
available if you've promptly registered the work on publication).

Shal, you're mixing up enforcement and penalties. Enforcement is about stopping the violation of a copyright. Penalties are typically assessed based on value. But a person with enough money or will to afford a lawyer can make an issue of such use and require removal, even if no monetary damages are assessed. There are many internet forums that are very concerned about such issues. Admitted, the written word is the most difficult to prove originality, but on a group that insists on not removing anything, that might not be so difficult. When one mixes in the possibility of paid premium groups where the content arguably *is* the product, it might get messier. I can see why Mark has continued to let posters retain control of their content, since he has the most to lose.

By the way, registration is no longer required for most copyright issues as long as one can prove they are the original source. Photos are the best example of this; copyright begins at the creation and that image need not be registered nor published. As I noted before, proving originality of the written word is more problematic, but in such a situation, a group's stated rules requiring that users give up control of their content looks bad.

Yes, I tend to take a very conservative viewpoint of copyright law. I have on a couple occasions knowingly violated it myself, although I made every effort to contact the source and credit them even though they never responded.

I still believe the safest way to deal with the situation in question is to quote the original poster in a reply where one is protected by fair use. This might also be a good way to deal with misinformation, since groups.io keeps everything together in threads. I could also see adding a moderator note to suc a post noting it's controversial nature and directing the reader to a rebuttal.

For more information see for a start.

Dano

Patty . . .

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 16:40:16 -0400, "Patty Fletcher"
<patty.volunteer1@...> wrote:

So I'll just say that I sent this to see if I'd get a response.
I've seen my messages just did not know if the list was seeing them.
Thanks for answering.
I'm beginning to think I might have stumbled into a place maybe I don't
belong.

Shal noted some specific message numbers that you can check against to
make sure all of your messages got through.

I don't know that anyone would qualify as not belonging here, but if
you took my post as being an attack, I can assure you that it wasn't.
I was just trying to reason out why we wouldn't know about what we
wouldn't see. But if you check the messages at the group site you can
see if all of yours went through. I rarely visit the group site and do
all my posts and replies by email. But if I had suspicions about my
posts not making it to the group, I would try that first to see if I
can find my recent posts there.

I see you have a Gmail account, and there is a setting in Gmail that
allows you to receive copies of what you send out. Otherwise, unless
something has changed since the last time I checked, if Gmail sees an
incoming message that matches what you sent out, it doesn't put it in
your inbox and ignores it instead. The assumption is that we don't
want to see what we already knew we wrote. However, that isn't how
most of us would like it to be, and in the case of online forums where
you receive email copies of your posts made by email, it can make one
wonder if our posts are indeed being seen by others.

I am not sure where that setting is, but I set mine a long time ago to
allow me to receive copies of what I send out. To me, it makes more
sense for me to delete those if I wish instead of an email service
making that decision for me.

Donald


Join the Icom group, a general Icom discussion group on Groups.io:
/g/ICOM (just launched)

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 08:25 am, Patty Fletcher quoted this from a subscriber:

I'm sure it's a lot easier on my computer, but at times I would like to be able to do this on my BrailleNote Touch as well, so this is really frustrating. If any of you know of a way I can reply to such messages with my email program, you can email me at the address below.

I suspect the number of braille users here is limited, much less those who might be using the same device as your subscriber.

When posing questions here, please consider the possibility that situations may be encountered that we simply may be unable to answer.

Regards,
Bruce?
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On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 02:15 pm, toki wrote:

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

I think this says it all.?

Bruce?
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On 06/07/18 06:00 PM, Sharon Villines via Groups.Io wrote:

I don’t think email falls under “creation” but under letters. And letters do belong to the person to whom they are written aren’t they?

The physical letter _usually_ (^1) belongs to the recipient.
The copyright belongs to the author of the letter.

Having said that, the question of a person replying to such a post and quoting part of the material originally posted would seem to fall into a gray area.

In the US, that probably falls under "Fair Use".

European law, in general, does not recognize "Fair Use". However, such
quotation was usually regarded as trivial, and, as a practical matter,
unenforceable. However, the EU is in the middle of making major changes
to copyright law. Whilst I don't think that the net result will be as
dire as the critics claim, it isn't as minimal in its impact, as the
advocates claim. If the critics are right, then such quoting is legal
only if the author consents to the quotation, and the appropriate
royalty payments have been made. One horror case scenario claims that
blanket waivers are unacceptable, and each contract has to be
individually negotiated. I don't think the European parliamentarians are
quite that stupid. OTOH these are government bureaucrats working in
conjunction with politicians, so who knows.

Is such quotation allowed under the shared commons allowances as a

reasonable use for educational discussions and common discourse?

That depends upon the precise wording of all licenses that:
* the content is distributed under;
* that the distributed has, related to distribution of said content;
* The law in the legal jurisdiction of the person who is claiming
copyright infringement;

Much as I'd like to think that it is never an issue, some people have
far more money than brains, and are perfectly willing to disregard the
advice of their solicitor, to do the money-wasting thing.

Sometimes, the lawsuit is filed, not for financial gain, but because the
plaintiff is deliberately seeking The Streisand Effect.

I haven’t checked the current version but the law used to say "500 words or less" for educational, etc, purposes, and without the intention of replacing the original.

US copyright law doesn't specify a minimum, in terms of either words, or
percentage of work.

^1: The exceptions are usually due to signing NDAs, or similar contracts.

I am not a lawyer.
This is not legal advice.

jonathon

Well I made an attempt to answer this privately but see no reply to sender
link here.
So I'll just say that I sent this to see if I'd get a response.
I've seen my messages just did not know if the list was seeing them.
Thanks for answering.
I'm beginning to think I might have stumbled into a place maybe I don't
belong.
Will just read a while and maybe sooner or later someone else will ask a
similar question to mine and be answered.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 08:25 am, Patty Fletcher wrote:

I'm subscribed in daily summary mode

That may be the problem.? If it were one of the digest formats, there should be links for each message to make a reply.

Duane
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Patty . . .

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 15:35:49 -0400, "Patty Fletcher"
<patty.volunteer1@...> wrote:

I’m just curious are you all receiving my messages?

滨’惫别 posed a couple questions to this list and other than someone sending me the help links which I’d read already and felt I still needed more help with and one person writing me privately on an unrelated matter have received no answers what so ever.

That's a question that would be difficult to answer. If we aren't
getting all of your messages, I can't think of a way for us to know
that you've sent others that we haven't received. We simply would have
no reason to suspect there were missing messages.

But the fact that you got some private answers tells me your messages
were getting through.

Donald


Join the Icom group, a general Icom discussion group on Groups.io:
/g/ICOM (just launched)

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:20 am, pamela wolf wrote:

I have to reset my password every single time too.

Actually, this only happened for me today. I set up a new password and hopefully it was just a one-time thing...

开云体育

Pamela,
Do the files show up in the Files section after you upload them?? Does the error occur when you click on a file to open it in your browser?
This group has a PDF file in its Files section - can you view that?
What browser do you use?? Do you have a PDF file viewer installed and configured in your browser?? Can you view PDF files in your browser from other web sites?
Thanks
Toby

In a message dated 7/6/2018 1:53:28 PM Central Standard Time, shals2nd@... writes:

I have the same curiosity as Bruce about the message you examined. It
would only be meaningful if she sent it as a CC to you (at a personal
address) when posting to the group; and of course only if it was one of
the failed instances.

Shal

When we realized that her message didn't show up on 6/30, she forwarded me the copy that was in her sent email folder.? ?Here it is:
------ Original Message --------

Subject:** Report - Group 4

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 10:02:11 -0600

From: Me***

Nancy,

Her activity isn't showing up as bouncing, nor are her emails
being returned to her either by her server or by groups.io.

If her attempts aren't showing up in the group's Activity log as (failed) attempts then the most likely cause is using the wrong posting address.

But in that case she should be getting a failure return (unless she happened to use the address of another group, and is allowed to post in that group).

I can see the header of a message she sent on 6/30, and the email
address of the group is correct.

I have the same curiosity as Bruce about the message you examined. It would only be meaningful if she sent it as a CC to you (at a personal address) when posting to the group; and of course only if it was one of the failed instances.

Shal


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I have to reset my password every single time too. it makes no difference if I type it in or cut and paste it in from the saved password list on my computer. it will still say the password is wrong. I think the site doesn't remember passwords.

I am trying to load pdf files to the files. I have tried a number of different ones from my computer and I get the message that the PDF can't be opened. right now all I have is a free group. don't know if this makes a difference.
thanks Pam Wolf