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Dan,

Under what circumstances (if any) do all the member's email addresses
show up outbound email's to members rather than just the individual
sender along with the group name?

Under no circumstances.

If anything you read recently implied otherwise it was probably poorly worded.

Shal


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Dan,

I had recalled seeing the "Email History" tab so went there hoping to
see a list of emails sent to this user and thus to see if Groups.Iohad
actually sent the emails in question.

Absent the member's use of Mute, or Following Only, it is safe to assume that Groups.io had attempted delivery of every message. Those that were unsuccessful would (eventually) show up in the Bounces list (they may not list there until all retries have been exhausted).

This seemed odd to me, as the title of the tab I was looking at is
"Email History" which strongly suggests, well, a history of emails
sent to and bounced for that member - not just the last one.

I agree with that, but I wonder if it wasn't done for the "most recents" because managing a list of them would add overhead to each and every outbound email message. That's a lot of messages! Having only the most recent reduces that overhead to just storing a pointer to the result in a known location.

I'm not saying that's the actual reason, but it wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, given all the other processing that occurs for each and every outbound message, maybe the list management wouldn't amount to a noticeable burden.

Shal


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Bruce,

If was possible to force people into the Directory and nothing is
populated, it will display their email address.

Please no. The Directory does not and I think should not ever show member email addresses. As you pointed out, for that there is the Members list.

That does leave the open question of what should be displayed if the member has not populated any of their profile fields (or has emptied them). The joined date would remain; the All Posts By link and the Email button could still work.

Shal


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Paul,

You are the first that I know of to have a gmail account removed for
this reason.

Me too. This is a big "say it ain't so" moment for me. I don't think I've had any of my Groups.io groups messages end up in spam at my Gmail addresses (yet).

OTOH, I don't understand why anyone would empty their Spam Folders
without checking them.

This too may be automatic, with an expiration of old messages after 30 days (or optional).

Shal


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Received from Tim McDonough N9PUZ at 6/21/2018 11:29 PM UTC:

In the past few days our group has been getting messages like the following from groups.io:

"This is to notify you that <users email> has been unsubscribed from your group <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] because a message to them was marked as spam. Note that this may have been done by their email service provider, not by the individual member personally."

It has happened with yahoo, ameritech, and gmail addresses. Any ideas what's going on?

You'd need to ask the subscriber whether it was him or his ISP who "marked" something as spam... and if it was the subscriber, who he reported it to.

Spam is UNSOLICITED bulk email. The email from the groups we own/moderate is SOLICITED by the fact that people need to subscribe to get it. They don't have to like every message they receive, but none of it should be reported to their ISPs as spam.

Subscribers should let the Owner/Moderator deal with spammers who slip by the vetting process because subscribers' spam reports to their own ISPs can have much wider reaching, unexpected, and serious consequences for the groups we manage.

Jim H

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 04:36 pm, Tim McDonough N9PUZ wrote:

It has happened with yahoo, ameritech, and gmail addresses. Any ideas what's going on?

This is not uncommon. See?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

Bruce?
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On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 02:31 pm, Michael Pavan wrote:

you overlooked the second part of what I said:

I didn't overlook it, I ignored it.? If you're going to allow anyone to contact anyone else, I don't see what's accomplished by trying to hide the email addresses.? It would seem to me that at some point everyone will know everyone else's address anyway.

There has been discussion in the past on the beta group about having an "ignore" function.? If that were implemented, depending on if/how it's done, it's possible that folks would still have a way to block those attempting to contact them.? It would seem easier to me to just add that person's email address to a spam filter and toss them in the bit bucket.

Duane
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In the past few days our group has been getting messages like the following from groups.io:

"This is to notify you that <users email> has been unsubscribed from your group [email protected] because a message to them was marked as spam. Note that this may have been done by their email service provider, not by the individual member personally."

It has happened with yahoo, ameritech, and gmail addresses. Any ideas what's going on?

On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:16 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:10 pm, Michael Pavan wrote:
I believe every member should be in the Directory, and that every member should be able to send a direct message to anyone through the Directory.

If you're going to do that, you might as well make the member list available to all subscribers. It amounts to the same thing as far as I can see.

No, the Member list reveals the email address - you overlooked the second part of what I said:

I believe every member should be in the Directory, and that every member should be able to send a direct message to anyone through the Directory. The sender's email address will be revealed, but the receiver's will not. Receivers should then be able to block future messages from any sender of a Directory-sent message as an option in that message and the Blocked sender should receive a Blocked notification so that they know their message was received but no future messages will be accepted.

Received from Chris V at 6/21/2018 08:54 AM UTC:

Shal

'having one's email address in the From field when you send an email is entirely normal.'

I am used to Yahoo Groups and emails from this system don't have say they come from one's email address, true the email address is in the header but not displayed by Thunderbird.
How does Google Groups work?

Chris

I was Owner of several groups on Yahoo!Groups for over 16 years before moving here. On YG, the email address of the sender appeared in the From: field of messages YG forwarded to someone who chose to receive individual messages. This was regardless of the Owner setting the group to hide email addresses... the latter seemingly only applying to emails read via the YG web interface.

I think any right or desire to hide one's email address is balanced by the right or desire of others to see who they're conversing with. These are, after all, mostly conversational groups. And I think this concept tips way over in favor of the readers who want to see an email address if/when the sender needs to be filtered for some reason.

Jim H

On Jun 21, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

There is already a Directory on/off setting. I think what you're asking for is a three-way decision: Completely Off, Forced On, and User Opt In. And in your [proposed] Forced On version, everyone would have an entry in the Directory, whether they establish a profile or not. This notion kinda violates the "spirit" of the Directory as an index of user profiles, but I can see no obvious reason why this third option shouldn't be made available.

Assuming we're still on the same page, keep in mind that both the Display Name and the User Name are optional fields, along with everything else in the profile. If was possible to force people into the Directory and nothing is populated, it will display their email address. Since this is not much different from the existing Members List, you might want to consider making that available to subscribers instead. See Admin->Settings->Privacy->Members Visible.

I believe every member should be in the Directory, and that every member should be able to send a direct message to anyone through the Directory. The sender's email address will be revealed, but the receiver's will not. Receivers should then be able to block future messages from any sender of a Directory-sent message as an option in that message and the Blocked sender should receive a Blocked notification so that they know their message was received but no future messages will be accepted.

There could be a field (displaying their email address) in the joining process with the instruction that it will be their Group Members' only Directory listing unless the prospective member changes it to their "First and Last Name", "Display Name", or "User Name" (group Owner's choice); and if not changed that will be their email address. The word “Directory” would be a clickable link that would explain what the Directory is and how it works, with a picture what the Directory looks like.

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:10 pm, Michael Pavan wrote:

I believe every member should be in the Directory, and that every member should be able to send a direct message to anyone through the Directory.

?If you're going to do that, you might as well make the member list available to all subscribers.? It amounts to the same thing as far as I can see.
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Shal wrote:

Yes, that’s what we do - it’s just more cumbersome than a more
thoughtful, better featured Invite process should be.

From my point of view Invite works exactly as it should. I don't want people that I invite to end up in the Pending list - I've already vetted them and I want them to be members.

So you want something else. You want to invite someone to request membership. As opposed to inviting them to be a member directly.

One possibility would be to have it be an option on the Invite page - Invite to request membership as opposed to Invite to join. My concern is that if we break the traditional semantics of Invite in this way it may lead to a lot of confusion.

I wish I could think of a better name for the function you want. Offer. Solicit. Request. Ask. "We ask that you request membership" - that's not too bad. Encourage. Propose. Suggest. Urge. Lure.

I might call it: Qualified Invitation

Actually, it kind of goes with the Promote function, maybe that's it.

Instead of promotion by display on a web site, you're looking to send messages promoting your group. Replying to the promotion would make the addressee a Pending member, and send them the Pending SUbscription notice.

This would work. Good idea to fill the current gap.

I have no problem with email addresses displayed on messages posted to the group. I want to know who is talking, I do not want to receive group messages from anonymous members. My experience is that anonymous posters are more likely to be nasty. If someone doesn't want their email address known, then they should just read and not send messages.

Possible group option: No Anonymous posts allowed.

Possible individual option: Reject Anonymous posts - anonymous posters should be reminded that their posts will not reach members who have selected the "Reject Anonymous posts" option.

I understand some people might not care, so perhaps Anonymous groups could be another option (such as Restricted and Unrestricted are).


I believe every member should be in the Directory, and that every member should be able to send a direct message to anyone through the Directory. The sender's email address will be revealed, but the receiver's will not. Receivers should then be able to block future messages from any sender of a Directory-sent message as an option in that message and the Blocked sender should receive a Blocked notification so that they know their message was received but no future messages will be accepted.

Thank you, Bruce

That is a help.? When Yahoo took away its chat function our group started one at HipChat, which is now called Stride.? It will be convenient to have the chat in our own turf again, but we are deciding whether to give up the private chat rooms and the setting to automatically retain only the last X messages in the conversation.

Carol B.

On 6/21/2018 9:49 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 03:56 am, Chris V wrote:

I am used to Yahoo Groups and emails from this system don't have say
they come from one's email address, true the email address is in the
header but not displayed by Thunderbird.

Chris -- Another poster (ref:
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/9456?) has already stated
that Google Groups behaves as Yahoo does:? The original sender's email
address is in the From field (and perhaps elsewhere).

That was me, and checking further, when I run View Source on a message
from another member of a Google Groups list I'm in, his email address
appears in nine places, one of which is the From field.

--
Bill

I agree that the way the email delivery history is displayed is rather unsatisfactory.

For what it's worth, I can reliably see actual bounces going back 60 days or more. But without a corresponding number of successful deliveries it's hard to put that into any kind of context. I also don't fully understand what an "unsuccessful attempt" means. My guess is that such messages may be queued up for redelivery, but that's just speculation on my part.

Bruce
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HI,

I scanned through thread?

Problem with the way Groups.io sends group messages?

/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/22405820#9379

And even though I don't understand much of what was said, I do have a question.? Under what circumstances (if any) do all the member's email addresses show up outbound email's to members rather than just the individual sender along with the group name?

Thanks -- Dan