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On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 03:53 PM, Mark Emmer wrote:

Shal, has it been discussed before why Mark chose this interface? From the perspective of UI stability, having a Private button that changes the green "Reply to Group" button to a blue "Reply to Sender" button is less than optimal and could be confusing to users.? Why not have "Reply to Group" and "Reply to Sender" buttons in a stable interface?

I believe the intent here is to have the web interface mimic what is [supposed to] happen via email; to wit:? the group Owner sets the default reply behavior of the group and the individual subscriber has to manually override that if they want to do something else.

In email, the group default setting (see Message Policies>Reply To) sets the reply-to field in the message header of *every* outgoing group message. Compliant email clients are?supposed?to parse this and populate the message To: field accordingly whenever the user hits the "reply" button. As we have seen, actual behavior varies, depending on both the client itself and its own settings; nonetheless, the field as populated serves as a "strong suggestion" from the group Owner as to what he wants to happen.

Similarly, the web interface reflects the group setting, with the assumption that the Owner set things up this way for a reason. To override it a subscriber has to use the "greyed-out" reply button[s]; with the fervent hope that most people will use the default.

One can eliminate the "greyed-out" buttons in the online message editor entirely by clicking the "Remove Other Reply Options" in settings. This removes those same reply options from [html] email footers but still does not actually prohibit non-compliant replies via email, only those composed online.?

Going back to the original question that started this thread....

Currently, the only way to?completely enforce?"Reply to Sender" group-wide -- using both the web interface and by email -- is to create a hashtag with the "Reply Only to Sender" override set and apply that hashtag to the initial message. For any such message, attempts to send a reply back to the group by email will be rejected by groups.io.?Again: there is no group setting that will accomplish the same objective.
?
I hope this helps...and made sense.

Regards,
Bruce

Shal, has it been discussed before why Mark chose this interface? From the perspective of UI stability, having a Private button that changes the green "Reply to Group" button to a blue "Reply to Sender" button is less than optimal and could be confusing to users.? Why not have "Reply to Group" and "Reply to Sender" buttons in a stable interface?? If it hasn't been discussed, then I will make the suggestion in beta.

Mark E.

OK, I solved the problem. All the messages have now come across on a 2nd attempt.

?

Turns out I had gone to the 'Access Control' panel in Yahoo Groups and set all controls to 'off' - meaning even the moderators could not see old messages.? I was following what I thought was the process as described in a YouTube video on the topic. I made a mistake. Once I set all the access to controls to moderator only and re-did the transfer, all my messages came across!?

?

I didn't have to delete the transfer agent's subscription. I just followed your original instructions and ran the transfer again, selected messages only and our 2500ish messages came across within about 10 hours.?

?

Thanks again for helping. I really appreciate it.

?

…顿补濒别

Kathleen,

my group is set to reply to group and sender. when i want to reply to
both, i choose that option. if i want to reply only to the sender, i
choose that option.

Are you replying through the Messages section of the group, or via your email interface?

my subscribers (some of them) seem to not have the option to make the
reply private and often send replies to the group and sender when it

should only go to the sender.

Perhaps those subscribers don't notice the Private button. It is grey and off to the right.

A recent changelog entry seems like it could be related, although not exactly as you describe:

BUGFIX: Reply to Group & Sender on the web in some cases did not send
the message to the sender, only to the group.

Also, members replying by email would have an entirely different user interface, and the reply options vary among various email services and applications. In many, a reply a private reply only to the sender would require deleting the group address from the reply before sending it.

do i have the option because i'm a moderator?

The Private button should show to members as well -- unless you've checked the "Remove Other Reply Options" box just below the Reply To option.

Shal


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Hi all,

If the changelog has seemed sparse lately, Mark is focusing on two major efforts over the next few months. One is the ability for group owners to charge subscriptions for their groups. The other is an iOS/Android app. For further detail see the posting on beta:


The last two week's change log:



Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

If there's anyone here who uses the API please identify and comment on any API-related changes that would be significant to API users. I don't and wouldn't know what to comment on.

BUGFIX: Reply to Group & Sender on the web in some cases did not send
the message to the sender, only to the group.

This certainly wouldn't have been helping clarify things for people with questions about how the Reply To setting interacts with email replies.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

SYSADMIN: Increased heap memory of search nodes to hopefully stop
random crashes.
BUGFIX: Reply to sender on the web to a non-member of the group
produced an error.
CHANGE: Tweak the formatting of photo album descriptions to allow for
longer descriptions.
BUGFIX: Some Facebook posts would duplicate the first image.
CHANGE: Bolded the current page in the pagination links.
BUGFIX: Fixed a couple of broken links in the More menu on mobile.

API:
CHANGE: The /downloadarchives endpoint has been temporarily disabled
because a company was abusing it and putting too much load on the
system.
NEW: The /gettopics endpoint now works.
NEW: Additional error codes for /login API endpoint.
NEW: Added group_alias, org_id, org_domain fields to the
'subscription_plus' object.
NEW: New subscription_plus field: nice_group_name.
NEW: New /gettopics parameter: extended.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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In Gmail, this feature is called Smart Reply.? You can turn it off in the settings.
The suggested replies show up at the bottom of the email body, above the normal reply buttons?
Toby

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 08:52 AM, Pat W. wrote:

How do you delete a Database that was transferred from another group and the person who put it there is no longer a member?

The group Owner should be able to delete it as follows:? Open the database table by clicking on its name. Click on the "Edit Table Properties" button at the top of on the resulting page, then click on the red "Delete Table" button at the bottom.??

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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How do you delete a Database that was transferred from another group and the person who put it there is no longer a member?

Received from Shal Farley at 11/10/2018 03:11 AM UTC:

Jim,

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at Gio.

It isn't as if Mark doesn't already know any of what you've said.

I don't recall any mention in this instance, but in prior incidents Mark has mentioned his contact, or attempt at contact, with various email services. Not that all of them are particularly receptive to such contact.

Yes, there are a few rogue ISPs who don't care, but the major providers of Internet access to the masses don't fall into that category. If the right people are reached the blocks should get lifted.

Jim H

Jim,

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct
contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at
Gio.

It isn't as if Mark doesn't already know any of what you've said.

I don't recall any mention in this instance, but in prior incidents Mark has mentioned his contact, or attempt at contact, with various email services. Not that all of them are particularly receptive to such contact.

Shal


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Received from Jules via Groups.Io at 11/9/2018 08:37 AM UTC:

My notifications are all going into my junk folder. So frustrating.
Any suggestions anyone ?

Do whatever is required to tell your junk mail filter that these messages AREN'T spam. Don't just delete them from the junk folder. Do that several times and they should stop going to the junk folder.

Jim H

Received from Shal Farley at 11/10/2018 12:39 AM UTC:

But Mark should be able to see that info, so I'm not sure why he asked you to send it to him.

The most effective solution to Gio mass bouncing problems is direct contact with the ISPs doing the bouncing by someone responsible at Gio. It's a pain in the neck, but Mark really needs to educate the major players about what Gio is. If "too much email" were really the problem, they would be blocking Yahoo. The problem is really "too much email from someone we don't know and are too lazy to research." They need to be educated. For those ISPs still reading the mandatory "Postmaster" role account, a carefully written explanatory email with contact info should do the trick. Wouldn't hurt to copy "abuse" at the same time.

As I understand it Barracuda sells security "appliances" - devices that sit between your computer and the internet to protect your system. But it is possible they also have a larger-scale product that your email service may be using for spam and malware filtering.

Barracuda is a bit reckless with what they block. I can see using a Barracuda appliance in front of a corporate network, but in front of an ISP's mail server with thousands of customers who have widely varying interests and who will be receiving mail from MANY more places than any corporate network does, it's just asking for trouble.

A lot of smaller email services use third-party RBL (Realtime Black List) services as part of the decision on whether to accept or reject ("bounce") incoming messages.

Yes... but... RoadRunner, hardly a "small email service" uses the Spamhaus RBL... or at least used to before Comcast bought them and called the new conglomeration Spectrum. They probably downloaded a copy of the list(s) periodically and queried them on their own network for faster response.

If Groups.io's outbound email server(s) gets onto one of those lists then that can produce widespread rejections.

True, but I've been checking every time I see bounce complaints and Groups.io isn't in any of the significant RBL lists. Anyone who wants to check for themselves can do so here...


The IP address of Groups.io's outgoing email server is 66.175.222.12.

You'll find Groups.io listed at dnswl.org. No problem since dnswl.org is a WHITELIST, not a blacklist.

Y!Groups had this problem from time to time as well. It can be torture for Mark to try and get an RBL to de-list (or better, whitelist) Groups.io, but to even start he needs someone's email service to tell him which RBL is being used.

Yes, but doing his own query (see above) is very (as in very very) likely to turn up which RBL is being used... if the bounce is due to an RBL listing. RBLs not on the list of RBLs checked above are not serious players in the RBL game.

The thing is that the responsible RBLs keep their reputation as being responsible by not listing something without hard evidence of true misbehavior - sending spam, hosting (and not removing) spammers, malware sources, etc. "Too many messages" alone doesn't even begin to count toward being listed in a responsible RBL. The bounces we're seeing are almost certainly due to internal black lists created at Cox, SBCGlobal (etc) because some rate detection software set off an alarm. Some clown added a listing to a locally maintained black list because his pager went off and then he didn't follow up by looking at the actual content and by visiting the Groups.io site to see the true nature of the service. This is the guy Mark needs to educate.

Jim H

Received from dgrass1@... at 11/9/2018 10:43 PM UTC:

The person I talked to could only tell me they still see the ticket number, and thought I should be some kind of email notification from the tech people by Friday...Which I haven't gotten so far.

Unless you get connected to the folks "higher up" before asking about the status of the ticket, you run a high likelihood of getting the same runaround you got initially. And if you do get them, remind them that Gio is an email list service like YahooGroups. Until someone realizes that, the problem will probably continue.

Jim H

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The support group fixed my problem. Great service!

My group also has been having quite a few issues with bouncing members lately and all are using providers that have been mentioned above.? Some automatically restart after Groups.io is able to get a message through but others continue to bounce.? One of them was able to Unbounce herself when I manually sent her a bounce probe and asked her to click on the link.? I haven't tried the others yet but was wondering, if the email provider is bouncing messages from Groups.io, is there a possibility that they may not see my manual bounce probe?? If so, is there a way that we can see the bounce probe ourselves with the link to Unbounce then send it from our own email address so that is isn't originating from Groups.io?? So far, all I have seen the button to send a bounce probe but can't see what is in it.
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Yvette in Ontario

I'll chime in here - we've got issues going on with bouncing other than the old/usual "spam" thing. Within the last month or so I've been contacted by members of groups I run that they can't keep their previously-fine account from bouncing. They reset it and within a day it's bouncing again.

I tracked it down I believe to the Barracuda security that mail servers run - I actually had one of my account start bouncing (I use that account to be a regular "member" when I'm testing things) - It doesn't matter if I white list the email address or not. This had not been happening before - I've been using this account for months.

I put a support request into Mark; he asked me if I could send him any error codes. I tried but I can't really pull any. All I get is the Groups.io message that my account is bouncing, click here to unbounce. I do - and it's back again in 24 hours.

Mark tried but he's not familiar with Barracuda and unless we can come up with something ore concrete for him to go on, he's stuck. His suggestion was to contact my provider - I'm still waiting on them.

It's obvious that it's due to some recent change - but what, who knows.

Ginny

I called my ISP again on Friday the 2nd, and this time I got to talk to a tech person a level higher on cox.com. They gave my problem a ticket number after determining the problem seemed to be on their end, and would probably get back to me again the following Monday...Which they didn't. I called Cox again on Tuesday the 6th for an update, and all they could do is tell their tech people I called back with the same problem. Now the email delays had gone up to 8 days, so I called again on Thursday the 8th. The person I talked to could only tell me they still see the ticket number, and thought I should be some kind of email notification from the tech people by Friday...Which I haven't gotten so far. One thing has changed though, as now the delays are down to 30 hours...We're making some progress!

Don

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