You said:?
Perhaps the section on "How can I stop this from happening again?", or parts of it, should be brought out into its own page for easy reference by group members. Then maybe it could get some elaboration, or pointers to instructions, for different email services.

I do have a Wiki entry, and I also have set up a Guidelines notice to go out monthly to our group, about what will happen to you if you mark a groups.io list message as spam.? And, our Welcome letter also has a little blurp in it about NOT marking groups.io list messages as Spam, or emptying your Spam/Junk folder without looking for valid emails and restoring them as "NOT SPAM".? I think I've done everything I can do as a list owner to warn new and existing list members about this feature.? It is a foreign concept to my Yahoo Groups transfer members, so they tend to be the ones that are most frequently unsubbed.?

You said:? I understand that unsubscription has a certain ruthlessness to it ("learn or die"). And I've made my alternative suggestion:II d
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16955

Hah, well put, "learn or die".? That's how I feel, and agree with your suggestion of some other "corralling" of a suspected spam sender, rather than ruthlessly unsubbing them.?

You said: Eh? I don't see how this would happen to someone on No Email.

Let me correct that statement: We have a fairly significant amount of tranferred Yahoo Groups members who actually ARE receiving list messages in some fashion (individual or digest), but don't know it, and function as though they are No Mail by going to the list to read messages.? How?? Again, back to a fairly significant number of list members that just didn't understand the Yahoo Groups sign up process, created a yahoo.com email address they never used, the default email delivery on Yahoo Groups is Individual Emails, and just went to the list's home page to read and reply to list messages.? And, took that behavior with the to groups.io, since they don't even know they have a yahoo.com email address that has been receiving list messages (for years).? So, it's as though they're No Mail by virtue of how they read list messages.? If they get to their email and empty the gaillion spam emails, or, if Yahoo decides to mark groups.io email as spam, now they're unsubbed and will never see the restore email.? Have had a few of those folks get unsubbed. In fact, I had one list member vehemently argue with me that, "I have NEVER had a yahoo.com email".? I had to screen snip her old Yahoo Groups membership to prove to her she did.? Sigh...

Clearly, this seems to only be an issue for me, so, I will figure out how to deal with it best we can.? Otherwise, very happy with how Mark's designed groups.io, and it certainly beats the slow disintegration and dysfunction of Yahoo Groups.
--
Patty S.

Just want to confirm that you can only move Yahoo and Google groups to Groups.io, or can I (fingers crossed) move my Big Tent group and all the messages from the forum to Groups.io?

Thanks!

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 01:34 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

Which is first and foremost to satisfy the (former) member's email service that Groups.io will stop sending messages that get marked as spam. And to that end, the member and the service's filter must be trained not to mark Groups.io's messages as spam.

I think what too often gets lost in these discussions is that groups.io does not unsub people just to punish them. For whatever reason, the receiving email service got a message from groups.io that it BELIEVES TO BE SPAM, and on that basis has REQUESTED that its user be unsubbed. That's how these feedback loops work, and groups.io is just doing what it was told to do.?

Failing to act on this request may seem like no big deal, but it is. Back in February, a well-respected antivirus provider (Norton) began flagging groups.io as a phishing site. AVG and a handful of others soon followed suit. This situation persisted for nearly week. You can read all about it .

One of my subscribers contacted Norton and asked them what all the hubbub was about. He was referred to a perfectly innocuous groups.io message that had something to do with a party invitation.

I had just transferred our main group from Yahoo a week earlier, and had a great deal of difficulty convincing everyone in our club that we hadn't just made a terrible mistake.

The hope is that as groups.io grows and more email providers become "trained" to accept high email traffic from this source it will become less and less of a problem. Meanwhile, if an occasional subscriber gets bumped off my group and has to be reinstated, that's a very small price to pay to avoid a repeat of that experience.

Regards,
Bruce?
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开云体育

Shal thanks. I did not do the invite but will consider that the next time this happens. ? I still like iogroups more then yahoo I guess. I did like yahoo when it was working properly. Now so many things don't work. ? My members get very upset if they are unsubbed and many won't come back. I might consider paying for the group. I would like to know what other advantages in paying does? ? Will the photos of the email folder be better? ? I am hoping this won't happen again. ? Anita

On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 08:07 AM, Tom Otvos wrote:

But why doesn't the image show up for message itself?

Does the embedded image show up as a broken link, or not at all?

If the former, it could be a browser setting. I get broken links for any TIF files for example, as my browser cannot render them. Seems kinda unusual for a JPEG file, though.

If it's the latter, I'm stumped. Hopefully someone else can advise you.

How can I coach my members to send images in such a way that members who only interact with the group online won't be penalized?

Ask them to send all images as attachments instead of embedding them. Good luck getting subscribers to comply, though.

I have previously requested a group option to strip embedded images altogether, as a way to both enforce subscriber behavior and to keep such images from proliferating in the Emailed Photos folder. Unfortunately, such a setting does not currently exist.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 05:25 AM, SIRMick wrote:

We previously ran our list from a private server using the Mailman programme.? I have a message archive which I want to integrate into the list here so that all members are able to access it.

Is this possible and if so what is the best way to go about it.

There have been multiple discussions of this here in the GMF group:??/g/GroupManagersForum/search?q=MailMan? We have always told folks that they need to export their MailMan archive into Unix (mbox) format and ask Mark [support(at)groups.io] to upload it for them. To date, not a single person has reported back on any success with that.

You can tread that well-worn path again, but prepare for frustration. My best advice to you is to get your messages in some kind of human-readable (and text-searchable) format and upload that archive document into your Files area.

Good luck,
Bruce?
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Hi,
If your group messages are moderated, the email address in the pending message can be highlighted and switched to plain text, i.e., without the underline and the color change that would eventually figleaf it. That is one of three options offered by the system.

You would start your message with a note to the moderator requesting that edit.

Hope that helps,
Linda

Our group tends to send quite a few images in our messages. I do have some scaling settings established to keep it under control, but a user reported the following. When he views the group traffic online (he prefers not to get any emails), he notes that some users (me included) do not have any attached images visible in the message body. Other messages, including emailed responses to messages where the images are "missing", have the images.

Digging deeper, I can see that my messages have got the images in the "Emailed Images" album, and an image will be correctly cross-referenced to the source message. But why doesn't the image show up for message itself? In the raw source for the message, the images are "inline":

--Apple-Mail=_E53DDA7F-CE96-4ED6-98E5-4FBF125B5530
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
	filename=UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_62bd.jpeg
Content-Type: image/jpeg;
	name="UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_62bd.jpeg"
Content-Id: <BC049426-76CD-4FDD-914F-363979261743@lan>

We previously ran our list from a private server using the Mailman programme.? I have a message archive which I want to integrate into the list here so that all members are able to access it.

Is this possible and if so what is the best way to go about it.

Thanks

Patty,

instead of unsubbing list members, why not suspend them, so
mods can restore them?

Because allowing mods to reinstate the members would defeat the whole purpose. Which is first and foremost to satisfy the (former) member's email service that Groups.io will stop sending messages that get marked as spam. And to that end, the member and the service's filter must be trained not to mark Groups.io's messages as spam.

It is either the vicious cycle (more marking as spam means more deliveries to the spam folder means more marking as spam), or the virtuous cycle of the reverse trend.

I haven't had any issues on Yahoo Groups with spammers getting into my
lists, ...

Keep in mind that this issue has nothing directly to do with members sending actual spam, or spammers getting into your group. It is about the behavior of /receiving/ members, and their email services.

Granted if there are groups on Groups.io that do deliver messages that their members sincerely believe to be spam, that's a problem - for all groups on Groups.io - as it drives the vicious cycle. One advantage of unsubscription is that it tamps these down too - spam-filled groups lose members.

Shal


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Patty,

But, my list members are not nearly savvy enough to figure out how to
create a spam filter.

Well, not a "spam filter" per se, but a filter for group messages. But I take your meaning.

Perhaps the section on "How can I stop this from happening again?", or parts of it, should be brought out into its own page for easy reference by group members. Then maybe it could get some elaboration, or pointers to instructions, for different email services.

Still hoping I can drum up support for having Mark adjust this, so
list members aren't unsubbed, ...

I understand that unsubscription has a certain ruthlessness to it ("learn or die"). And I've made my alternative suggestion:


Every now and then I've thought perhaps I should flesh out that seed of an idea into a more fully considered proposal, but I keep stumbling on the fact that I think allowing the mods to resume a member would defeat the purpose. And without that ability you'd likely be faced with the same level of effort to get the member to un-status him/herself. Also, Mark seems firmly convinced that unsubscription is the best way to force the issue to be resolved, despite all the objections presented in beta.

Confounding the issue, I'm sure, is that some fraction (and I don't know if it is large or small) of the spam markings are probably by members who actually want to leave the group, but have been trained not to ever trust the "unsubscribe" link in a message, but to use their service's "Spam" button instead.

Many wouldn't figure that out for days, maybe longer, if they're on No
Mail, ...

Eh? I don't see how this would happen to someone on No Email.

Except maybe as a "time-bomb" lurking in their Spam folder if they've switched to No Email within the last month (or whatever their service's expiration time is).

On the other hand most of my other groups have only intermittent activity, so the idea that a member might go several days or longer before realizing that they haven't heard anything in a while isn't too far-fetched.

On the gripping hand those groups also have smaller membership and very little for me to do as a mod. So far this has happened to exactly one of those members (an AOL address) and he promptly resumed himself.

Shal


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Anita,

I never saw that resume link you mentioned. Where is that?

In the email notice sent to the member after they've been unsubscribed.

Where is direct add?

That's a Premium feature, but I don't know why Invite wouldn't work. Subject to the same concern about whether the person's email service will let them see anything from Groups.io.

My problem is so many things go in this email photo folder and
duplicates. It picks up so many things as images that should not be
picked up.

Yeah, I know. Many group owners have found it to be a great inconvenience. My suggestion may have been overkill... ;-)


Shal


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Dennis,

... but there are times when one wants the e-mail address visible
to the public. Is there a way to force groups.io to display an
address?

Not to non-members. For members you can turn off the masking using the setting Duane described.

So your only option may be a work-around such as Jim suggested.

Shal


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Shal,

You said:? As I said, some email services provide a means to have group messages bypass the spam filter. In Gmail, for example, one can create a filter to do that. For those that don't the "fix" takes longer: you have to consistently mark group messages as "not spam" when they land in the spam folder.

Yup.? You said that, alright? :-) .? But, my list members are not nearly savvy enough to figure out how to create a spam filter.? I'm lucky if they can figure out how to create a password.? And, I've mentioned, that before :-)? My list member population is just not very computer savvy, even though that acknowledgement has made some of these forum members upset, it is what it is for us on our particular list, in our particular world.? So, not an option for my membership.?

You said:? I have a feeling we've had this conversation before.

Yup, we have. Here, as well as on the Beta list.? Still not happy with this unsub feature.? Still hoping I can drum up support for having Mark adjust this, so list members aren't unsubbed, then notified via an auto email that will either not get to them at all, or go to their Spam/Junk folder.? I don't get that logic.? To me, that's sort of worthless?? Am I missing something?

You said:? f Mark were to ignore the feedback from these services (the ones on our list) then eventually Groups.io could become unusable for people with those services - all of its messages might end up rejected or sent to Spam.

Understandable, and not what I'm disputing (Bruce, also responding to your comment as well).? Not saying Mark should ignore the feedback at all, it's important he doesn't, of course.? What I DON'T want to happen, is for list members to just be unsubbed.? I propose there is some other, better way to manage this.?

You said:? It is a little ambiguous, but in that topic where you posted there's some indication that progress may be being made toward the goal: one group owner in "removed for spam" events.

We have also seen a reduction from the beginning of moving over to groups.io, but, we are now at sort of a stalemate.? I think there was much more unsubbing activity for my groups right after the transfer, due to inactive list members not understanding what was going on, seeing messages from a site they were unfamiliar with, and simply marking them as spam.? Or, for inactive list members who didn't want to receive messages, and marking them as spam.? We sort of had a flurry of that activity right after our list transfers, which has now slowed down to about 1 per day.? Or 1 every other day.? And, maybe ISP's are "learning" groups.io should remain whitelisted, despite what folks might be inadvertently sending to their ISPs.? That's great.? But, the unsub issue is still cumbersome and time consuming for list mods to deal with.? Just a pain to have to email these list members privately, so they'll actually find out they've been unsubbed.? Many wouldn't figure that out for days, maybe longer, if they're on No Mail, and try to go to the list to view messages, only to find out they're no longer a list member, and that link provided in the auto restore email has expired.? Ugh.?

But, promise I'll quit kvetching about this.? I love groups.io overall, just not in love with how Mark is managing the handling of spam issues.? I think there could be a better way to handle this without unsubbing list members, all I'm saying.

--
Patty S.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 03:35 PM, Motti Tadmor wrote:

Is there a way to transfer only missing topics since the first transfer, or move individual topics from yahoo?

No.?

Put your Yahoo group on Moderation, reject the messages, and explain to anyone who posts there that the groups has moved and they need to send their posts to the new group. After a few cycles of this your members will get the idea.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
?
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To do this without changing group settings you can type email addresses as "user(at)domain" to make them readable in message text.

In To: or From: addresses you'd need to include a plain text part containing the email address... something like...
From: 'user(at)domain' <user@domain>

Jim H

Received from Dennis Storzek at 8/22/2018 10:26 PM UTC:

Duane, then, instead of unsubbing list members, why not suspend them, so mods can restore them?? I haven't had any issues on Yahoo Groups with spammers getting into my lists, and that's because I always set for restricted memberships, and required a Comment to be included with the membership request.? If the respective list member either didn't send a comment, or sent something odd/general/nonsensical, then were denied membership with a reason.? And, offered to resubmit with a list-specific comment, the version of their software/model of their embroidery machine, etc.? Spammers just wouldn't bother replying - too much work for them.? Worked well for us, rarely needed to ever deal with that.? But with this set up, I'm getting list members automatically unsubbed almost daily.? We list mods then need to send out a separate email, from our own email accounts, telling the list member what happened and why, and where to find the auto restore email (if it came to them at all - could have easily been screened out at the front end, by their ISP's front end spam filters).?

I just don't think this is a very effective tool for those that run restricted membership lists.? It creates more work than the results.? I get it for lists that do not have restricted memberships, or, for lists that allow non-members to post - you are are much higher risk for spammers to hit your lists.? But, that's exactly why I run all my lists with restricted memberships.? We did a very good job screening out spammers, had virtually none.? Just an awful lot of extra work, and my list members often do not understand what happened, and several have been very upset, jumping to conclusions, and think we've banned them from the list :-(?? Gotta be a better way of managing this??

Patty Sliney

--
Patty S.

Shal thanks. I never saw that resume link you mentioned. Where is that? Where is direct add? I do have that checked to delete old attachments when it gets close to the memory limit.

My problem is so many things go in this email photo folder and duplicates.? It picks up so many things as images that should not be picked up. For example a member puts these two orange dots by her name. Every time she writes a letter it is picked up as images.

Thanks

Anita?

Go to Admin > Settings, scroll down to the Privacy section, in the Hide Email Addresses In Archives drop down, select "Do not mask email addresses in the archives."? If you have a group with public archives, I wouldn't do that because anyone on the internet can see it.? If you have private archives, it may not be a problem.

Duane
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Any reason? ?People can do a private reply if they wish. Email footers show the option and online on the group site, you can click on Private (bottom right).?

Frances