On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 05:44 PM, Frances wrote:

I like to help edit the GMF wiki. I can point people to it or specific spots when they have a problem.

As do I. However, I get irked when members (not of GMF!) seem incapable of the most basic of functions, and / or don't even consult their own group's wiki. On occasions - admittedly fairly rare - when given specific guidance they still manage to get it wrong.

A perpetual problem on many (most?) groups seems to be a failure, appearing on occasions to be a blank refusal, to trim off reams of previous material so that the vast bulk of any post is yet another copy of what has been sent before. On a moderated group this can be caught by a moderator (although repeatedly having to trim peoples' posts does get tedious) but on an unmoderated group, although a moderator may edit a post to remove superflous material on the web UI, an over - long email has already been sent to members, very possibly eroding their data allowances.

Why is it some people are apparently incapable of selective quoting when posting by email? Is it a lack of capability or simple laziness?

Chris

The member in one of my groups with the Charter email was 'unbounced' on May 30th (by bounce probe) but then began bouncing again yesterday (June 4th) when their daily digest bounced. I forwarded it to them via my Gmail account this morning and it went through without a problem. But bounce probes are being returned "server not available."

I looked at Charter's email site, apparently the only way to request help is to call their help line. I would much prefer contacting them by email. My experience with various services has been, unless it is a very simple problem, talking with a rep over the phone is usually not too helpful. I think when you email them they have a better chance to mull over what you're asking. Maybe forward it to someone better able to answer.

I think the member in question is an older person and not too Internet/email savvy. They just want to read the digest. I've suggested they contact Charter but I'm not too sure they have. I discovered we have four other members with Charter email. Two are in no email mode. One is in individual message mode and had a spate of bouncing in June 2018 but seems okay since. The fifth is also in individual message mode had a 500 error (also in June 2018) -"550 5.1.1 wLk61x01L0GfduA01Lk61E Invalid recipient." Sounds like they either changed their email account or may no longer be with us.

tommy0421

I don’t find the below to be the case (6S, iOS 12.3.1).

Pics end up inline with the msg, text anywhere I want to put it. Ergo:




Is there a way to actually ATTACH a pic using a iPhone? Embedding is a P.I.T.A. when trying to organize msgs.

Sent from my phone

Bruce,

? ? ? ? ?We moderate differently.? ?Splitting, and stating explicitly why in both the spin-off, and originating, topics has, I've found, helped in expectation setting and molding behavior over time.? I make very clear that topic hijacking, which is entirely different than a conversational digression in a topic, will not be tolerated.

? ? ? ? ? There was a time, and it's long ago, when mailing lists and most online forums were primarily frequented by tech geeks who understood netiquette (not that it wasn't violated, but when done it was generally very intentional).? ?Now these venues are often treated like extensions of social media (particularly the Twitterverse) by those who have no idea of the folkways and mores of the venue.

? ? ? ? ? Waiting for it all to die down allows bad behavior to be perpetuated, and modeled, in my opinion.? But, to each his or her own style.
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Brian

? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.

? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham

Has anyone on here experienced issues with AOL mail /AOL addresses / bouncing emails / unavailable mailboxes?
In the past week or two things seems to go bonkers, and I’m wondering if it’s widespread or localized, or if Steve Chase is back haunting folks, or if Verizon is screwing it up like it did Y!

Thx!

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Bruce,

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 06:27 PM, Rob Bulnes wrote:

So it’s happening… is there a solution? Anyone?

The only alternative I can offer is to upload the file to proper cloud storage (Google Drive or some such) and post a hyperlink to your group. Failing that, if you should end up contacting support to ask about this, I think we would all appreciate it if you'd forward any response you get back here to GMF.
?
Regards,
Bruce
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The system Help is your friend.??/static/help

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 02:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

This topic has been split (and appropriately, I might add). It would be really helpful, when that happens, for the moderators to note such and post the link to the spin-off topic:??How much help do members need, and what kind??

Brian -- I agree that this topic should have been split, and I thank Shal for doing that.?

Such a problem arises when someone (usually several people) fail to recognize that they are drifting off-topic, and end up essentially hijacking an existing thread. Folks too unsophisticated to avoid doing that probably won't comply with the implied remedy either.*

Every message in GMF is moderated, so the split can be enforced that way; but in an unmoderated forum you might was well be tilting at windmills. So I usually just wait until all the digressions are done and then clean up the mess afterward. It's the only way I've found to avoid engaging in a split-and-mergefest.?

Regards,
Bruce

*Please note new subject line

Hi everyone,

A member of a group I moderate has trouble sending photos to the group. His image just ends up as a jpeg id. I thought I would try to write simple instructions - this isn't in the wiki as far as I can see. However I don't have instructions for Androids.

This is assuming that your group allows you to send photos.

By Email

From the website:

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/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

/static/help
More help: use the search button at the top of the Messages list.

This topic has been split (and appropriately, I might add).? ?It would be really helpful, when that happens, for the moderators to note such and post the link to the spin-off topic:??How much help do members need, and what kind??

I almost missed it entirely, and while the back references to this topic are contained in it, the forward reference in any topic from which another is spun-off should be, too.
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Brian

? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.

? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham

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Hi
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/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

/static/help
More help: use the search button at the top of the Messages list.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 07:13 AM, Tommy Meehan wrote:

I don't take the time to help anybody

That statement was made in a very specific context, which you have chosen to ignore.

There are a great many who take the entirely reasonable position that if I've provided you with the information you're asking for, and you haven't bothered to even read it, that additional assistance is not indicated.? I will help by pointing out that the member has an obligation to actually do that reading, and that's really the best help I can give them.

Context matters.
?
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Brian

? ?Some questions don't have answers, which is a terribly difficult lesson to learn.

? ? ? ? ? ?~ Katharine Graham

I don't take the time to help anybody
[mod note: an apparent paraphrase from GMF #16964]

If everyone felt that way this particular group wouldn't exist. That isn't a very friendly attitude and I find it kind of extreme but not especially unusual. Owners/moderators who are cantankerous and unfriendly has always seemed to me to be the down side of these groups. They don't like dealing with members and guess what? Members usually don't like dealing with them, either.

I am willing to take a few minutes to help one of the members of the groups I own/moderate. That would seem to be one of the main reasons for being a moderator; a willingness to get involved and being willing to help someone. It usually doesn't take much effort.

tommy0421

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Shal and all on this thread (too names to remember),

Brian,

By the way, and unrelated, I could have sworn there was a way to
subscribe to a group via the web interface, but if there is ... I am
now failing to find it.

You need to be looking just above the Message History table, on the home page of a group where you are /not/ (yet) a member. If you are a member of the group it says "You are subscribed to this group." at the very bottom of the home page instead.

Which reminds me, the other thing one can see on the group's home page is a list of Group Settings, including those relating to moderation of member's posts.

Shal


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Marcio,

Is there a way of setting up a message to be sent to a person that is
needing approval before they can be unmoderated? If there's no way of
doing it yet, could it be a nice feature to be suggested?

I think that's a good idea.

This topic has drifted a bit today but a criticism I think is valid is that one probably would not want to receive that message again for every moderated post. So I'd include in the proposed feature that it be a one-time notice for each subscriber, the first time they email a message and it is held for moderation.

I could create a notice to messages needing approval, I guess, but it
would be triggered whenever someone is needing to be approved (which
include moderated members), that's why I don't like this idea.

I think this would fit within the existing Member Notices structure. A type of Member Notice that is sent once, at the first emailed post by each member that is held for moderation. It could have a default wording but be fully customizable; like the Welcome member notice.

I would apply this for any reason that the member's post is moderated, whether a member's first emailed message is to a fully moderated group like GMF, or to a group with New User Moderation. But the text of the notice would likely need to be tailored to the group's settings and practices.

Shal


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On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 05:04 PM, Chris Jones wrote:

In fact, (again IMHO) your sentence That information is contained in the welcome message, which you are expected to have read in its entirety before asking anything else should be extended to include the group wiki, although expecting anyone to fully absorb the GMF wiki might be somewhat optimisitic. :)

I disagree with the Wiki part (not so much here, but in general).? There are certain things that are not, shall we say, gracefully implemented, and the Wiki is one of them.? Also, there seems to be a complete disconnect between "the e-mail world" and "the forums world" as far as what can be expected for a user to consult.? But everyone, regardless of their preferred interface method, gets a welcome message and good group owners compose one that serves as a welcome greeting as well as clearly laying out the group rules.? These should be saved for precisely that purpose (though they often aren't, and I certainly didn't save the one from GMF, which is why I unsubscribed and resubscribed today - so I would get a fresh copy of the welcome e-mail).

By the way, and unrelated, I could have sworn there was a way to subscribe to a group via the web interface, but if there is (other than by sending an e-mail, which isn't the web interface) I am now failing to find it.? I didn't think I'd joined most groups via sending an e-mail message, but it's been a while, so perhaps I'm mistaken.

For my curiosity, I just unsubscribed then resubscribed to GMF.

The welcome message is very clearly written and states:??All messages sent to GMF are moderated.


I seem to recall that the Groups.io default is "first message moderated" for all group members, unless the owner changes it.? One can, of course, keep a new member on moderation for as long as one wants if you just approve the message but don't unmoderate them at the same time.

It is only sensible to state in the group welcome message that new members are moderated until the group owner(s) or moderator(s) take them off that status.? Mentioning that this is typically after the first post if it is on-topic and follows group rules, but not always, doesn't hurt, either.