Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and ideas on this topic. I don't
know why I panicked. <g>

lovemary, I would like to know about some of the books you recommend, if
it isn't too much trouble.

Thanks everyone,
Deb L

PSoroosh@... wrote

different and worth spending some time thinking about. And - there is an obsessive quality to them -- that is absent in other kinds of games. I think THAT is the crux of the anxiety that parents sometimes feel -- it makes us uncomfortable when our kids ar! e obsessive about anything. Why?

Normally I'm a lurker, but this really cracked me up. Nine years ago, when ds was a baby, dh and I went on vacation for a week, using a condo that his dad had given us his timeshare for. We were really poor and couldn't afford to do anything, so we borrowed some board games from the main office of the timeshare place. We ended up getting totally obsessed with Monopoly and played it all day and half the night for six days in a row! We stopped only to eat, sleep, and tend to ds (who was young enough that he slept most of the time). I have never, before or since, been so obsessed with a game. We still laugh about it. When my kids get obesessed with something, I try to figure out (just for my own curiosity) what need they are meeting at that particular time with their obsession. I still haven't figured out what need two 24-year-olds could have met by doing nothing but playing Monopoly, but it was sure fun!

Laurie in WA

My oldest (17 tomorrow) has her first behind-the-wheel driving lesson on Thursday morning at 10 am.

The difference between the big city and the country, I suppose. ?I can't imagine anyone having driving lessons around here (except maybe those teens who are forced to go to driver's ed in school because of insurance rates or others who go to avoid a fine or something). ?Not that driving lessons aren't NEEDED by some around here. ?lol.

We all learned to drive out in the country, as did my teenagers. ?When we moved back to Memphis, I was terrified when Jon at 16 wanted to drive the 5 miles to the grocery store--on very busy city streets. ?But thought nothing of letting him drive by himself to the little store up the road when he was 14 and still unlicensed. ?(No cops, no traffic, no problem. )

They also became much better drivers when they were finally allowed to drive alone for a period of time, in all kinds of circumstances. ?I guess my nervousness at their driving was ooking out all over them. ?;)

Tuck

开云体育

I'd be interested in a list of spiritual books for children--
especially for very young children (my boys are turning three in two
weeks). Also, do people have other ideas for introducing
spirituality to the very young? I'm really most interested in
exposing my kids to a variety of spiritual approaches.

Thanks!

--Catherine

Sandra wrote :

As some of you come across and watch the new Nintendo Game Cube game Monkeyball, watch what fine movement is required to go through
those mazes. I watched Kirby and Marty play it the first time they picked it up and thought "This will make them better drivers."

I'll have to look at that one. We have two games for the Game Cube and
I'm looking for something my children (6 & 4) could play. We have
Jet Race and Luigi's Mansion. (No choice : Nintendo gave the system
and the games to my husband since he was part of the team which designed it.)

I'm impressed with the system. When I was last working fulltime (7 years
ago) a system with those capabilities cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Now you can get it for a lot less!

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Deb, aren't you in IL? I have some food and other animal things I
could give
you. I am in IN.
Indiana Tami

Tami,
I'm sorry but you're thinking of the other Deb, ( Deborah) I'm in MT.
But I thank you for that offer Tami. I really thank you from the bottom
of my heart.
Deb L.

?

SandraDodd@... wrote:

?
As some of you come across and watch the new Nintendo Game Cube game Monkeyball, watch what fine movement is required to go through those mazes.? I watched Kirby and Marty play it the first time they picked it up and thought "This will make them better drivers."

I must be a lot grumpier than you by nature.

When I'm out on the freeway, and people are whizzing by me and cutting in front of me with tiny margins for error, I'm often heard to mutter "These people learned to drive playing Nintendo and haven't figured out that this freeway doesn't HAVE a Restart button."

Betsy

vegan4planet@... wrote:

Hi Sandra and Cindy,

I'm sorry that I got myself off to a bad start. When I read my post
after it was on the list (and too late to fix anything) I really felt
like a air head. It came out all stupid somehow. I guess I was
thinking conflicting things, but not putting them down right. Sorry
about that. I'm so used to the face to face type of conversation.

I had no problem with your post - just that I thought you might not
have considered some aspects of gaming.

I agree that a lot of money is spent on them - the console game market
alone is *huge*! In a more perfect world people wouldn't be going
hungry or without adequate shelter while others spent spent lots of
money on luxury items.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

?

vegan4planet@... wrote:

?
I think all the things you guys mentioned are satisfying and have
lasting value because they connect ut to the real world around us.
Gaming can be a connection with friends that is valuable

Hi, Makana --

This is a valuable topic for me.? (I need to work on it myself.) I do struggle with sometimes thinking memorizing all the exports of Brazil (say) is more valuable than memorizing the properties of all the Pokemon characters.

Sometimes I don't see the value in learning a lot about something that is fictional? And yet, I spend a lot of time dwelling in fictional realms myself.

Wonder if my thoughts would be different if their was a major Pokemon "exit exam" that all 10 year olds had to take?? Hmmmm.? (Don't everybody shudder at once!)

Betsy

?

SandraDodd@... wrote:

?

They get being safe in their own home with friends at 3:00 a.m.
There is other "real action" involving teenaged boys at that hour, but my kids have no desire to be a part of it, for which I'm totally grateful!

I recently figured out that that's the reason I am so "in to" fiction.? Because it provides a safe adventure.
?

Even real action can be unsatisfying.

True for me!

I don't know if it's just the arrival of winter weather, but I have been experiencing couch potato angst.? I realize I spend an awful lot of time thinking, dreaming and in virtual interaction.? On the spectrum that runs from dreamer to doer, I'm way over in "dreamer" and almost never visit "doer" to do anything more strenuous than buy groceries.

But, while pondering, I've been thinking that I don't get much satisfaction out of doing things.? I feel like I really don't get pleasure from accomplishment.? (And it's more than just ephemeral things like housework that don't stay "done".)

Does anyone have insight into where satisfaction at a job well done comes from?? Can it only be destroyed by being a perfectionist, or are there other ways it might be undermined?

Betsy
?
?

?

vegan4planet@... wrote:

This is way out there, but I feel like people can never get enough of
(be satisfied by) something that isn't really satisfying. Diving into
fantasy games is exciting, but hollow in the end because
you have nothing real to show for it. It all is social I agree, but
nothing lasting is accomplished. There's always one more set of
figures, books, dice, or scenarios to buy.

Yeah.? I'm a little bugged by the idea that the game gets better and you have more power and abilities when you buy more stuff.? I realize that there is more than that to the game, but I'm concerned about the creation and manipulation of desire for power.

Betsy

Deb, aren't you in IL? I have some food and other animal things I could give you. I am in IN.
Indiana Tami

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)

Children Leading the Way!

Fun site for your kids or even you :)





----Original Message Follows----
From: ddzimlew@...
Reply-To: AlwaysLearning@...
To: AlwaysLearning@...
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] fantasy gaming vs real challenges (was Re: Expensive Games)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:19:17 -0700

I started volunteering at an animal shelter four years ago. A few women
with good intentions got in way over their heads with a no kill shelter.
Before they knew it they had forty five dogs and dozens of cats. I went
there looking for my friend's cat who had vanished.
They had no money except what they could personally contribute.
I felt the only thing I could do was plunge in and help. It cost us a
small fortune. I spent more on that volunteer work than any of us have
ever spent in the pursuit of entertainment.
Not only the money but the commitment of time. My son was with me but
for months on end I never had any time with my husband.
New cats were coming in all the time. People would say, if we didn't
take the cats they'd be killed. So naturally we'd try to make room.
They would have to be quarantined, vaccinated, spayed. Each new cat cost
the shelter (us) a minimum of $100. (that's if they weren't sick ) and
that didn't include food and litter pan, etc.
One of the very committed volunteers left when her husband threatened
divorce over the issue.
Things are better at the shelter after an organized fund raising drive,
sponsors and several grants, but the point is, doing something *real* can
cost plenty. It can tear you up emotionally, threaten a happy home life
and put you in debt. Yes, it can be worth it, but it's not always the
beautiful picture of fulfillment painted by the TV commercials. I have
found a replacement and am taking some time off. Maybe forever. Where's
that chess board...

Deb L, also vegan, HI Makana!!

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On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:05:57 -0500 <ElissaJC@...> writes:

OK, Here is my question (Please be gentle with your answers! LOL)

Once the above has become a pattern - how does one change it? How does

one

set the limit yet still maintain respect and teh child autonomy? I
tend to have good days (respecting their wishes, everyone cooperating,
watching the hunger/anger/lonely/tired thing, modeling behavior and

then all of a

sudden I realize that there has been some yelling, disrespect etc and

I'm

not sure what got us there.

I'm not a big fan of "limits". I prefer to frame it as meeting everyone's
needs. I don't want my kid to think "Mom said no so I have to stop
asking", I want her to understand why mom said no... or, actually, mom
rarely says no outright, I tend more to say, "I'm rather not do X because
Y" or "I'm worried that it we X, Y will happen." and then she'll either
agree, or have a plan to avoid Y, or whatever.

I also think it helps to talk about stuff before it gets out of hand,
like, "I'm feeling a bit stressed with all the noise and crowds here
already and I'd like to get this shopping trip down fast, so could you
just go get X and Y and meet me at the checkout, and we'll zoom?" And I
try to excourage and listen to her, too, when i want to stop at the
grocery store because we're out of milk and she says, "Could we not
today, I really just want to go home." then we don't stop, because she
only says it when she really isn't up to a trip...

And there are off days, of course, cranky grumpy times, and often the
best thing to do then seems to be to call a halt to whatever we're doing
and go out for coffee and chess... just take a break.

Also, the eating issue (I really wish S was here to answer this one)
My two year old is down to eating nothing until he gets junk. Would
removing it from the house for a period of time help? Might it give him

the

space to try other healthier foods and realize he likes them? I don't

want to be

a food controller yet I am starting to become concerned over his eating

habits.Yesterday he ate a bowl of rice crispies with milk and then

nothing

else! He is still nursing so that eases my fear somewhat. I have also

thought

about not arguing and letting him nurse as much as desired but I am at
that nursing stage where it is starting to get a little irritating
physically as my cycle ebbs and flows (pun intended LOL)

Rice Krispies are fine, really. That plus breastmilk makes a pretty
healthy diet, IMO. I really think the food thing ebbs and flows, children
spend months or a year or two eating this seemingly narrow range, then
suddenly start trying all sorts of things, if they aren't coerced into
it. I know many, many small children who ate only a few things, and
they're all fine...

Sometimes trying to limit nursing makes kids want to nurse more, I'm not
sure if you're limiting it all the time or just those days of the
month... It is hard to feel good about nursing when it's physically
uncomfortable, though. My daughter used to generally nurse more when we
stayed around the house, if your son is the same way then maybe planning
more out of the house activities on those days would help...

Dar
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Thank you Wynn, I am printing this and putting it on the Fridge for those
days I can't think of what to offer!
Elissa