Thank you John from Spain.
We armature that have never been in a professional workshop, and never been under supervision of a foreman, we need this type of advice.
Even it sound obviously for you, it is for us armatures sacred lecture.
So keep on give us advice, and don’t be afraid to teach us.
95% of the group can just press the delete button when you say: “don’t put an end mill in a drill chuck”
The rest will reread the mail and have joyful moment.
/Johannes
Fra: 7x12minilathe@... [mailto:7x12minilathe@...]
Sendt: 19. juli 2017 14:12
Til: 7x12minilathe@...
Emne: Re: SV: [7x12minilathe] Taper size
Firstly I must concur with Richard to the fact that his comments are solely based on drilling operations and
he is absolutely correct.
In the past, I have used radial drilling machines with up to #6 MT.
with automatic tool knock outs.
Never did I have or have seen a drill fall out.Never did I see an end mill being used, we had
a milling department that did ALL the milling quite nicely thank you.
Next thing I will be reading from forum members is that they are using a draw bar in the lathe tailstock
to hold an end mill in a drill chuck, because it may wobble out.
I see and smell Danger.
Secondly, it is not common practice to hold end mills in a drill chuck.
Drill chucks have hardened jaws designed to grip into the soft portion of a drill bit shank.
If you need to use a milling cutter on mill/lathe then use a proprietary end mill holder.
I think that?s why they call them END MILL Holders, that differentiate from Drill Chucks.
Thirdly IMHO, the use of a drill chuck to hold threading taps is a NO NO.
Use a tap holder and the flats on the end of the tap provided.
It?s just laziness or a lack of pride in your technique of being a machinist if you do
hold taps in a Drill chuck.
The chances of breaking small taps when held by the shank is a very likely occurrence.
Larger taps held in a drill chuck will spin round on you when tapping, requiring even greater force to be applied to the drill chuck jaws causing considerable damage to the chuck and causing excessive run out when asking subsequently the chuck to hold a drill.which is its original purpose.
Lastly if the taps spin round in the drill chuck jaws, you will loose any engraving on the shanks that
identify the size.
John
Spain
|
In article <831738.72931.bm@...>, wmrmeyers wmrmeyers@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote: Is that tailstock or spindle? All the 7x mini-lathes from China thst
I've seen have an MT2 tailstock and MT3 spindle. About a dozen in total
so not a comprehensive sample, but I do read a lot. Bill in OKC Sorry missed off "tailstock" -- Stuart.
|
Is that tailstock or spindle? All the 7x mini-lathes from China thst I've ?seen have an MT2 tailstock and MT3 spindle. About a dozen in total so not a comprehensive sample, but I do read a lot.
Bill in OKC?
Sent from my Sprint Phone.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "lists Stuartlists@... [7x12minilathe]" <7x12minilathe@...> Date: 7/19/17 12:28 PM (GMT-06:00) To: 7x12minilathe@... Subject: Re: SV: [7x12minilathe] Taper size
In article <06908116-2580-a7de-273a-5d5cfb63671a@...>,
Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...>
wrote:
> Ok but my standard is MT3 as it suits lathe spindle and tail-stock, and
> mill. To each his own.
Taper in my 7x12 lathe is MT2.
--
Stuart.
|
Re: Self Releasing Drawbar
Hi Richard , could not?see the?sketch as at the bottom of the text all other has been removed. Cheers Allen.
From: "Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe]" <7x12minilathe@...>
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Sent: Wednesday, 19 July 2017, 18:52
Subject: [7x12minilathe] Self Releasing Drawbar
?
Attached is a sketch of a self release drawbar that I use on my X2 mill.
The Top Hat item replaced the spindle lock nut. The Nut shown was
loctited to the 3/8 UNC drawbar. I intended installing ball bearings but
found it was unnecessary.
This was for an X2 it may be more difficult or impossible for other
machines.
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
Firstly I must concur with Richard to the fact that his comments are solely based on drilling operations and he is absolutely correct. In the past, I have used radial drilling machines with up to #6 MT. with automatic tool knock outs. Never did I have or have seen?a drill fall out.Never did I see an end mill being used, we?had? a milling department that did ALL the milling quite nicely thank you. Next thing I will be reading from forum members is that they are using a draw bar in the lathe tailstock to hold an end mill in a drill chuck, because it may?wobble out.? I see and smell Danger.
Secondly, it?is not common practice to hold end mills in a drill chuck.? Drill chucks have hardened jaws designed to grip into the soft portion of a drill bit shank. If you need to use a milling cutter on mill/lathe then use a proprietary end mill holder. I think that?s why they call them END MILL Holders, that differentiate?from ?Drill Chucks.
Thirdly IMHO, the?use of a drill chuck to hold threading taps is a NO NO. Use a tap holder and the flats on the end of the tap provided. It?s just laziness or?a lack of pride in your technique of being a machinist if you do? hold taps in a Drill chuck.
The chances of breaking small taps when held by the shank is a very likely occurrence. Larger taps held in a drill chuck will spin round on you when tapping, requiring?even greater force to be applied to the drill chuck jaws?causing considerable damage to the chuck and causing excessive run out?when asking subsequently the?chuck to hold a drill.which is its original purpose.
Lastly if the taps spin round in the drill chuck jaws, you?will loose any engraving on the shanks that identify the size.
John Spain
|
In article <565e3045dbStuartlists@...>, lists Stuartlists@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote: In article <06908116-2580-a7de-273a-5d5cfb63671a@...>,
Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...>
wrote:
Ok but my standard is MT3 as it suits lathe spindle and tail-stock, and
mill. To each his own. Taper in my 7x12 lathe is MT2. Should have said 7x12 lathe tailstock. -- Stuart.
|
Check for sure on both ends Stuart before you buy things..... the
most common config (if the headstock has not been altered) is MT3
on the spindle and MT2 on the tailstock.
MT3-MT2 adapters are around and cheap if you get in a fix.? I
have things that use from MT1 through 3, and have a 3-2 and a 2-1
adapter at the ready (I have some older arbors that are MT1).?
Warren L
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I designed this for my X2 you will need to change for other machines. I
thought I would need ball bearings between nut and top hat but not
necessary.
ATB
Richard
|
In article <06908116-2580-a7de-273a-5d5cfb63671a@...>, Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote: Ok but my standard is MT3 as it suits lathe spindle and tail-stock, and
mill. To each his own. Taper in my 7x12 lathe is MT2. -- Stuart.
|
Re: Another video to make you wince
To be precise, the mendocino motor exhibits something called pseudo levitation because it depends on mechanical contact to achieve positional stability.? The levitation system is not axially stable on its own.
Using diamagnetism or electrodynamic stabilization It may be possible to achieve a passive? magnetic bearing system.? Earnshaw's stability theorem does not take these effects into account.
Mark
|
Richard I did not receive a attachment!!
Ralph
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote:
?
I designed this for my X2 you will need to change for other machines. I
thought I would need ball bearings between nut and top hat but not
necessary.
ATB
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-- I am not old, I am just aged like a fine wine or a prime piece of meat and a tasty whiskey.?
Me
|
I designed this for my X2 you will need to change for other machines. I
thought I would need ball bearings between nut and top hat but not
necessary.
ATB
Richard
|
Ok but my standard is MT3 as it suits lathe spindle and tail-stock,
and mill.
To each his own.
ATB
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
???
In article
,
Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe]
<7x12minilathe@...>
wrote:
> I do not disagree with most of what you have said,
but if you own a
> lathe then you tend to need to double up on some
tooling. Expensive for
> the Hobbyist.
I too have a lathe, that's why I am here.
R8 to MT2 adaptors are cheap and easily available. The
mill/drill came
with a chuck and the adaptor allows me to use MT2 drills
when I need to.
--
Stuart.
|
Re: Self Releasing Drawbar
Please send me a copy. Your bearing thumping is compelling! Bill in Boulder CO USA
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 7/19/2017 5:30 AM, Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
Ok Atachments not allowed
Sorry.
Sent directly to requesting poster
Richard
|
In article <db3cc3b3-0fdf-e97b-3645-d6f27e731237@...>, Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe] <7x12minilathe@...> wrote: I do not disagree with most of what you have said, but if you own a
lathe then you tend to need to double up on some tooling. Expensive for
the Hobbyist. I too have a lathe, that's why I am here. R8 to MT2 adaptors are cheap and easily available. The mill/drill came with a chuck and the adaptor allows me to use MT2 drills when I need to. -- Stuart.
|
Richard,
That is true. Tooling costs money. As the saying goes "you pays your money or takes your chances" Something like that!
Have a nice day.
Dick
|
Re: Self Releasing Drawbar
Ok Atachments not allowed
Sorry.
Sent directly to requesting poster
Richard
On 19/07/2017 09:40, Richard
edelec@... [7x12minilathe] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
???
Attached is a sketch of a self release drawbar that I use
on my X2 mill.
The Top Hat item replaced the spindle lock nut. The Nut
shown was
loctited to the 3/8 UNC drawbar. I intended installing
ball bearings but
found it was unnecessary.
This was for an X2 it may be more difficult or impossible
for other
machines.
Richard
|
I do not disagree with most of what you have said, but if you own a
lathe then you tend to need to double up on some tooling. Expensive
for the Hobbyist.
Richard
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
???
In article
<8736fc62-0777-1c69-cbf4-cd21bed4c6a0@...>,
Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe]
<7x12minilathe@...>
wrote:
> He did not say he was milling, he was drilling hence
my query as to why
> it was thought he needed a draw bar!
Many milling machines and Mill/drills have alternative
tapers to the
Morse. The Morse taper is a "holding" taper which is why
it requires
significant force on the end of the drawbar to loosen it.
To get round this issue, alternative tapers were
introduced. Mine has an
R8, which is probably the most common on small mills. The
R8 is a guiding
taper but does not grip with great force, which is one
reason a drawbar is
necessary. To release mine requires only a light tap with
a small
soft-faced hammer.
For anyone contemplating buying a mill I would say shun
the Morse and go
for an R8 taper
--
Stuart.
|
Attached is a sketch of a self release drawbar that I use on my X2 mill.
The Top Hat item replaced the spindle lock nut. The Nut shown was
loctited to the 3/8 UNC drawbar. I intended installing ball bearings but
found it was unnecessary.
This was for an X2 it may be more difficult or impossible for other
machines.
Richard
|
I have no argument with the fact that it may be a good idea. Your
statement "In a drilling machine the MT arbor is in there so tight
as it never gets removed so it should not fall out." is not quite
true. Drilling machines do not just use drill chucks. Drills with MT
shanks are also used. In the course of a day the drill size may be
changed many times.
Certainly use a drawbar if you wish. The main problem is that some
people assume that the draw bar should be graunched up really tight
and this is not necessary, particularly with a drill chuck. Every
tightening means a loosening and with most MT mills that means a
thump on the drawbar and therefore a thump on the spindle bearings,
IMHO the fewer the better.
The only time the drawbar needs to be really tight is when using MT
collets to hold drills or milling cutters where the tightening
actually grips the cutter.
Richard
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?
Richard,?
I started all of this. All I am saying is in my milling
machine when I put in an MT3 arbor with a drill chuck for
"DRILLING ONLY" I use a drawbar because I think it's a
good idea.?
In a drilling machine the MT arbor is in there so tight
as it never gets removed so it should not fall out.
?Whereas in a milling machine I remove an arbor maybe 3 or
4 times a day and I don't tighten them tightly (just
firmly) to enable easy removal.
For safety reason I think I prefer it held by an arbor.
Dave
Borneo
Sent
from my Samsung device
-------- Original message --------
From: "Richard edelec@... [7x12minilathe]"
<7x12minilathe@...>
Date: 19/07/2017 3:18 p.m. (GMT+08:00)
To: 7x12minilathe@...
Subject: Re: SV: [7x12minilathe] Taper size
?
Why oh why do people not read and understand what is
written before making comments!
The original post was in response to the statement that
a drill chuck should be held with an arbor in a milling
machine when drilling.
I stated that it should not be necessary as the drill
chuck should be held by the taper exactly as it is in a
drill press (with knock out MT).
At no point did I discuss using a drill chuck to hold a
milling cutter.
Hands up all the posters who use a drawbar to retain
their chuck in their tail stock.
Richard
?
Richard,
A drawbar is definitely needed in a milling machine.
Most end mills have flutes with a right hand helix
which exerts force in a downward direction which can
pull the end mill down and out if a collet. I have
seen jobs ruined such as blind pocket work and mill
tables scarred up by an end mill that drifted
downward. This happen most often to the
inexperienced and it has also happened to me until I
learned the hard way. Always use a solid end mill
holder of the Weldon type having a set screw on the
end mill flat held in by a draw bar. That is what
those flats are for besides preventing rotation of
the end mill in the holder. These holders are
available for all standard end mill shank sizes.
Of course there will be instances that prevent one
from using these holders but they are the exception
and not the rule.
Dick
|
Johannes
Warren LeMay
OldToolmaker