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Re: Prompt: Why do you still care about TDD?


 

Once upon a time, I cared about TDD. In fact, I moved from being a frontend game developer ?towards more server side and business applications, in part so that I could take advantage of TDD. I tried TDD in some flash games, it kinda worked.? I tried TDD in a unity game.? It did not go well. TDD server side, is always fun, and is great at helping me ask questions for what we are really trying to accomplish.

Nowadays, I don't care about TDD per say anymore. I certainly don't/cant' follow the textbook definition of it most of the time. My definition of what is a "test" has expanded?beyond the unit test suite.? For me, now, I care about fast feedback loops. And automated fast feedback loops when possible.

For example, Angular has an ecosystem designed around testing, but the test infrastructure is horribly slow.? I'd much rather use vite without a test suite, keeping a page open that is constantly refreshing, than attempt to use the Angular set of tests.

Fast feedback loops, small changes, early API usage, automated regression, and safe refactoring. That's what I care about.

Right now I work on platforms, where everything is live integration. It's easier to use TDD in such an environment than it was in Unity or mobile game development, but my localized, automated tests never give me the confidence that is needed, since the real deployment of the platform is never the same as my sanitized, modular tests. So I need to find new tools that provide fast feedback loops, small changes, early API usage, automated regression, and safe refactoring in every new context.


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On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 12:33?AM Ron Jeffries <ronjeffriesacm@...> wrote:
I care about it because:

It helps me work in small steps, and small steps help me go faster.

It gives me confidence in my code, so I am less tense and enjoy the work more. I feel sure that I make fewer mistakes when I am less tense.

The tests support refactoring. Just today I wrote five articles on a very long sequence of refactoring steps. The tests staying green gave me the confidence to continue, and they quickly went red a few times when I misstepped.

I'm a better programmer when I use TDD.

R

sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.
ronjeffries@... is a better address for me, maybe.

> On Jun 26, 2023, at 9:21 AM, J. B. Rainsberger <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, folks. Why do you still care about TDD?
>
> Please skip the platitudes and write from the heart. Why does it still matter to you? Why do you still practise it? How does it still help? Why do you still teach it?
>
> Or not?





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