Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Hi John, ? Just been playing around a little and I also can’t find a way to turn off grid snap, however, you can manually move objects off the snap grid by holding down the ALT key whilst moving them so, for instance, you could click on a track and select move and then holding down the ALT key drag it away from the snap position and it will stay where you leave it. ? Of course, you can also select the finest option for size and alternate grid sizes and that will give you much closer snap positions. ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Ferguson via Groups.Io - jferg977=aol.com at groups.io
Sent: Monday, 19 November 2018 14:29
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] What an I Missing - Eagle Question? #eagle? I thought so too , but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'm running Eagle 9.2.2.? I've been away from it about a year.? seems to me that I was able to toggle snap to grid off in earlier version,l but cannot remember. john On 11/18/18 9:57 PM, Eric wrote: That being the case, maybe switching off? Snap to Grid in Eagle will allow it do it properly for you. ? Just a thought ? ? ? This is very close to what I'm using in Imperial.? I need to check the pcb-gcode, but I don't think it is where my problem is. I can see the traces too close to pads in Eagle. Moving them manually does fix them.? thanks much, john On 11/18/18 4:23 PM, Chipteck wrote: I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time and was too quick to respond.
In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on my projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull to cut 0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the following:
pcb-gcode setup - Generation > Minimum = 0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool Dia = 0.1mm
DRU:
Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:57:48 +1100, you wrote: If I remember this properly the following things could be happening: 1) if you manually set the grid size, then 0.025 may be small enough for the primary grid, and 0.00625 (all inches) may be good enough for the secondary grid. Tracks when manually routed follow the grid and snap to it. Your job to manage pad size and trace width. Now, Eagle's autorouter is set up for PC board houses, not for the kind of routing either toner transfer or mechanical etching will need. Trace size is generally set by net class according to the signal type, however, the spacing between the trace and another trace, trace and pad, pad and via, all of which the autorouter has to follow, that's set by the Design Rules. Check clearance to see what's going on. As an experiment, set up three parallel pin headers, say about fifteen or so long each. Connect corresponding pins on the two outer ones, leaving the inner one disconnected. Set the clearances to 8 mils, autoroute. ripup, set to 12, ripup, set to 16, then 24, then 32, then 40. Sooner or later, the autorouter will stop putting wires between pins. Cobble together a board that has at least one surface mount chip on either side, doesn't have to make sense. Do the same and I think you'll start to see where the vias get placed. Generally, when I routed boards that I was going to make (I used toner transfer), I stuck to 10 mil trace, 10 mil spacing as the minimum sizes. Note that as long as the design rules are followed, the autorouter doesn't care how close it gets to another trace and has no incentive to spread them out. Harvey That being the case, maybe switching off Snap to Grid in Eagle will allow it do it properly for you.
Just a thought
73….Eric VK2VE
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Ferguson via Groups.Io - jferg977=aol.com at groups.io
Sent: Monday, 19 November 2018 12:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] What an I Missing - Eagle Question? #eagle
This is very close to what I'm using in Imperial. I need to check the pcb-gcode, but I don't think it is where my problem is. I can see the traces too close to pads in Eagle. Moving them manually does fix them.
thanks much,
john
On 11/18/18 4:23 PM, Chipteck wrote:
I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time and was too quick to respond.
In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on my projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull to cut 0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the following:
pcb-gcode setup - Generation > Minimum = 0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool Dia = 0.1mm
DRU:
Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
I thought so too , but couldn't figure out how to do it. I'm
running Eagle 9.2.2.? I've been away from it about a year.? seems
to me that I was able to toggle snap to grid off in earlier
version,l but cannot remember.
john
On 11/18/18 9:57 PM, Eric wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That
being the case, maybe switching off? Snap to Grid in Eagle
will allow it do it properly for you.
?
Just
a thought
?
?
?
This is very close to what I'm using in Imperial.? I need to
check the pcb-gcode, but I don't think it is where my problem
is. I can see the traces too close to pads in Eagle. Moving
them manually does fix them.?
thanks much,
john
On 11/18/18 4:23 PM, Chipteck wrote:
I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time
and was too quick to respond.
In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on
my projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull
to cut 0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the
following:
pcb-gcode
setup - Generation > Minimum =
0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool
Dia = 0.1mm
DRU:
Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
That being the case, maybe switching off? Snap to Grid in Eagle will allow it do it properly for you. ? Just a thought ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Ferguson via Groups.Io - jferg977=aol.com at groups.io
Sent: Monday, 19 November 2018 12:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] What an I Missing - Eagle Question? #eagle? This is very close to what I'm using in Imperial.? I need to check the pcb-gcode, but I don't think it is where my problem is. I can see the traces too close to pads in Eagle. Moving them manually does fix them.? thanks much, john On 11/18/18 4:23 PM, Chipteck wrote: I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time and was too quick to respond.
In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on my projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull to cut 0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the following:
pcb-gcode setup - Generation > Minimum = 0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool Dia = 0.1mm
DRU:
Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
This is very close to what I'm using in Imperial.? I need to
check the pcb-gcode, but I don't think it is where my problem is.
I can see the traces too close to pads in Eagle. Moving them
manually does fix them.?
thanks much,
john
On 11/18/18 4:23 PM, Chipteck wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time and was too quick to
respond.
In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on my
projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull to cut
0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the following:
pcb-gcode setup - Generation > Minimum =
0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool Dia =
0.1mm
DRU:
Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Also let's not forget that an autoleveller like "AutolevellerAE-0.9.5u1.exe" will also help since these boards are not flat.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
I am sorry, I didn't have a lot of time and was too quick to respond. In any case I am loading "20170624 -pcb-gcode.dru" file on my projects to setup my clearances and have been successfull to cut 0.2mm traces with 0.1mm clearances with the following: pcb-gcode setup - Generation > Minimum = 0.03mm, Maximum=0.2mm, Step size=0.05mm - Machine > Tool Dia = 0.1mm DRU:  Chipteck
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Yes, and I get no errors. but there are still shorts between pads
and traces - and as I said before it's all library so it's their
pads and their traces.
On 11/17/18 10:23 AM, Art Eckstein
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dumb question,
Are you doing a DRC check????
"Tools">"DRC">"Check"
This should point out any errors you have in the design rules.
At 11/17/2018 09:12 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io wrote:
yes, I think.?? That
is the
file which tells Eagle I want 10 mil traces and 14 mil
clearances isn't
it?
On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote:
Have you checked
your DRL file
in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Here’s a link to Autolveller, it’s pretty easy to use, but always test your probe before you start. I use Mach3, have an indicator on my main screen the shows the probe status, guess you can do the same with your Linux cnc… ? Btw, I use a big crocodile clip on the spindle to complete the probe circuit. ?
? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Ferguson via Groups.Io
Sent: 17 November 2018 15:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] What an I Missing - Eagle Question? #eagle? HI Fred, The autoleveler sounds like a good idea, although my typical work sequence is I set up the fixture, fly-cut it and then leave it on for a month or two - no more leveling needed.? I'm doing very small autonomous fixed wing aircraft design -by myself - and find that it's better to have two aspects of this going at once, electronics (pcb board) and coding work ok, but not pcb and airframe, because I cut airframe parts on the 6040 on a vacuum table which cannot co-exist with the pcb fixture.? it's the traces between the pads on the microcontroller which cause most of my problems, but I have to have them or vias.? I could do two sides using scheme you suggest, but so far haven't.? I start my first run with a slight prick at 0,0 which I could drill through to index other side.? Itr is helpful if i have to re-index a card for another pass, although I couldn't do this the way I work if I've had some reason to take the card off the router. I'm surprised your router didn't come with ball screws, mine did.? One of the highlights of the purchase was discovering the ballscrews were metris not imperial as advertised.? this didn't cause much of a problem with small stuff, but later on when I started to make 8 nch parts things didn't fit weel with parts made on my mill. I love this stuff, though and really Eagle ought to be able to do better.? I have the lingering feeeling that I really have missed something. john On 11/17/18 9:37 AM, Fred Genius wrote: I have the same problem, the autorouter seems to like running tracks between pads and I don’t like that, means a greater chance of a bad board. ? Just for reference, I have a 3020 router, with a milling vice bolted to the bed. The vice has 80mm wide stepped jaws, and the pcb sits nicely on the step. I use Autoleveller ?software, takes the output from pcbgcode and adds probing code so I don’t need to worry about the board being level. ? I use carbide ‘V’ bits, typically 20°, they’re cheap enough so I use a fresh one for every board. ? To make double-sided boards, I drill one hole all the way thought the board, usually the one nearest to the right-hand edge of the board. When I flip the board to etch the second side, I position the drill at the negative value of the original position, and push the board onto the drill bit, then lower the z until the board is sitting on the jaw step, then I can tighten the jaws knowing that it’s correctly located. ? The router had one major problem when I first got it, there was a huge amount of backlash on all axes, and a huge number of failed boards. I replaced with ball screws and everything is good now. ? ? ? yes, I think.? That is the file which tells Eagle I want 10 mil traces and 14 mil clearances isn't it? On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote: Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Dumb question,
Are you doing a DRC check??
"Tools">"DRC">"Check"
This should point out any errors you have in the design rules.
At 11/17/2018 09:12 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
yes, I think.?? That is the
file which tells Eagle I want 10 mil traces and 14 mil clearances isn't
it?
On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote:
Have you checked your DRL file
in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
DRL or DRU?
On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
HI Fred,
The autoleveler sounds like a good idea, although my typical work
sequence is I set up the fixture, fly-cut it and then leave it on
for a month or two - no more leveling needed.? I'm doing very
small autonomous fixed wing aircraft design -by myself - and find
that it's better to have two aspects of this going at once,
electronics (pcb board) and coding work ok, but not pcb and
airframe, because I cut airframe parts on the 6040 on a vacuum
table which cannot co-exist with the pcb fixture.?
it's the traces between the pads on the microcontroller which
cause most of my problems, but I have to have them or vias.? I
could do two sides using scheme you suggest, but so far haven't.?
I start my first run with a slight prick at 0,0 which I could
drill through to index other side.? Itr is helpful if i have to
re-index a card for another pass, although I couldn't do this the
way I work if I've had some reason to take the card off the
router.
I'm surprised your router didn't come with ball screws, mine
did.? One of the highlights of the purchase was discovering the
ballscrews were metris not imperial as advertised.? this didn't
cause much of a problem with small stuff, but later on when I
started to make 8 nch parts things didn't fit weel with parts made
on my mill.
I love this stuff, though and really Eagle ought to be able to do
better.? I have the lingering feeeling that I really have missed
something.
john
On 11/17/18 9:37 AM, Fred Genius wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I
have the same problem, the autorouter seems to like running
tracks between pads and I don’t like that, means a greater
chance of a bad board.
?
Just
for reference, I have a 3020 router, with a milling vice
bolted to the bed. The vice has 80mm wide stepped jaws, and
the pcb sits nicely on the step. I use Autoleveller
?software, takes the output from pcbgcode and adds probing
code so I don’t need to worry about the board being level.
?
I
use carbide ‘V’ bits, typically 20°, they’re cheap enough so
I use a fresh one for every board.
?
To
make double-sided boards, I drill one hole all the way
thought the board, usually the one nearest to the right-hand
edge of the board. When I flip the board to etch the second
side, I position the drill at the negative value of the
original position, and push the board onto the drill bit,
then lower the z until the board is sitting on the jaw step,
then I can tighten the jaws knowing that it’s correctly
located.
?
The
router had one major problem when I first got it, there was
a huge amount of backlash on all axes, and a huge number of
failed boards. I replaced with ball screws and everything is
good now.
?
?
?
yes, I think.? That is the file which tells Eagle I want 10
mil traces and 14 mil clearances isn't it?
On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote:
Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing
clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
I have the same problem, the autorouter seems to like running tracks between pads and I don’t like that, means a greater chance of a bad board. ? Just for reference, I have a 3020 router, with a milling vice bolted to the bed. The vice has 80mm wide stepped jaws, and the pcb sits nicely on the step. I use Autoleveller ?software, takes the output from pcbgcode and adds probing code so I don’t need to worry about the board being level. ? I use carbide ‘V’ bits, typically 20°, they’re cheap enough so I use a fresh one for every board. ? To make double-sided boards, I drill one hole all the way thought the board, usually the one nearest to the right-hand edge of the board. When I flip the board to etch the second side, I position the drill at the negative value of the original position, and push the board onto the drill bit, then lower the z until the board is sitting on the jaw step, then I can tighten the jaws knowing that it’s correctly located. ? The router had one major problem when I first got it, there was a huge amount of backlash on all axes, and a huge number of failed boards. I replaced with ball screws and everything is good now. ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Ferguson via Groups.Io
Sent: 17 November 2018 14:13
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] What an I Missing - Eagle Question? #eagle? yes, I think.? That is the file which tells Eagle I want 10 mil traces and 14 mil clearances isn't it? On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote: Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
yes, I think.? That is the file which tells Eagle I want 10 mil
traces and 14 mil clearances isn't it?
On 11/17/18 8:52 AM, Chipteck wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
Re: What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
Have you checked your DRL file in Eagle?
I am using specific DRL files for establishing clearances/etc.
|
What an I Missing - Eagle Question?
#eagle
I now have a couple of years and dozens of successful boards cut on my 6040 router - and some bad ones too.
Boards are all cut from 2 1/2 x 4 inch single side pcb stock.? I made a jig for drilling holes in the corners to secure them to the fixture I made for the router with nylon 8-32 socket head cap screws. They're nylon so I won't ruin a bit if I screw up.
The fixture is a block of HDPE which has four recessed 10-32 socket head cap screws in the corners with Tee-nuts to hold it down against the router bed.? I've found that it is never really level as I put it down, and so I take a leveling pass with a fly cutter and then it is level.? I have a leveling G-Code snippet for the block which takes off .005.? I run all of this on LinuxCNC.
I started cutting with the 15 Degree etcher which came with the router. It worked very well after I got sharper on how to set it's height.? Then I bought additional bits, but none of them worked as well as the original until I bought a 15 degree 3 flute tapered stub EM3E8-0100-15V from Precise Bits. It does beautiful work requiring very little "adjusting"? It is wonderful.
I've had no problems with pcbgcode - worked out of the box.
My designs have all traces on bottom of card and so far no vias.
I export the Eagle design to DXF and use AutoCad to lay out the physical board, rounded (filleted) corners, mounting holes in corners, then run dxf of the board through SheetCAM to get G-code for the outline and corner hole milling.
Typically my projects have a microcontroller (Teensy 3.2) 28 pin DIL and a number of sensors, switches, maybe an OLED, a buck-type power supply and some Molex connectors for remote devices.
My problem is that Eagle doesn't seem to be able to autoroute traces among the pins on the devices without shorts - in other words it doesn't follow its clearance rules.? The result is that I have to go through the Board, find where traces are too close to each other or too close to pads and move them, often using the Alt key because they lock to a grid which seems to be part of problem.? This doesn't take long, but it seems to me that Eagle should get it right without any help.
I'm using only library components, trace width of 10 mill and clearance of 14 mill.? Since the bit is 10 mil, maybe I should be using 10 mill as the clearance rule?
If you guys aren't having to do all this editing, where do you think I'm messing up?
john ferguson
|
Re: #pcbgcode - Huge problem with this good plugin for Eagle 9.2.2.
#pcbgcode
I have one more question about the pcb-gcode?plugin:
I saw several versions of pcb-gcode on the net.
I desired to use the 3.6.2.4 ( I think this is the latest version ).
SO, I saw? also other people have nice pictures in the menu of the plugin like this:
 
Where are the drill depth, hight etc. is explained, but I have just this kind of "broken" icon:
How can I fix this?
Thank you.
|
Re: Can't open 'c:\storage.nv' permission denied
#pcbgcode
We can debate the idiosyncrasies of windows and application developers, but to stay in a user reality we must understand that the windows system drive is not a desirable place to store our data files for a lot of obvious reasons.
I have chosen to place all my static files and my projects to a network drive, however the location can be a local drive or even a USB drive since I got tired of windows constantly changing my environment with security "updates".
Since I am lazy by nature and all versions of Eagle uses environment variables as per all of their documentation, you need to set:
EAGLE_HOME = "\\SERVER\Eagle" <For network or> "D:\Eagle" <for drive D:>
HOME = "\\SERVER\Eagle" <For network or> "D:\Eagle" <for drive D:>
Of course in both cases without quotations.
This will allow any version of eagle to work with "your" files (and retain them after upgrades)? by making the followingentries in EAGLE>Options>Directories:
Libraries = $HOME\libraries\Common;$HOME\librariesWill need to add all your directories
Design Blocks = $HOME\design blocks
Designe Rules = $HOME\design rules
User Language Programs = $HOME\ulps;$HOME\ulps\pcb-gcode
Scripts = $HOME\scripts
CAM Jobs = $HOME\cam
Projects = $HOME\eProjects
Simulation Path = $EAGLEDIR\ngspice\bin
SPICE Modules = $HOME\EAGLE\spice
My \\SERVER\Eagle folder contain the following folders:
cam
Design Blocks
Design Rules
ulps
eProjects
libraries
scripts
spice
|
Re: Can't open 'c:\storage.nv' permission denied
#pcbgcode
I disagree. Eagle IS the problem maker. No modern program should install itself to C:\ . This is not only a problem for a standard Windows install in some cases it is also a problem with companies who have group policies that prohibit installs to C:\. Developers who set up their programs installer to default to c:\ are just making life hard for the users of their program. ? Some of these types of programs that insist on wanting to install to C:\ do so because they cannot tolerate spaces in paths. Quite often they also do a really poor job of uninstalling themselves too. When I ran into this issue recently with Cygwin and a few other programs I created a ‘Dev’ folder under ‘…/user/documents’ . This path has no spaces which might cause problems for some programs and keeps the programs separated from ones that install properly to ‘/program files’ by default. ? Jeff Birt Soigeneris.com ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Christian Robert Adzic
Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Can't open 'c:\storage.nv' permission denied #pcbgcode ? Hi! It seems to me also does Eagle is the problem maker, but if I dig a bit deeper I can say Eagle is not the problem maker.
The trouble you had was because of win10 and all that, for me a bit "over secured" setup of win10.
It looks like some permissions restriction was active for the folder where Eagle was installed, and because of not enough
access privilege for the user who was logged in in your win, you can't access that Eagle path.
That's a very often problem in win10.
|
Re: Can't open 'c:\storage.nv' permission denied
#pcbgcode
It appears that you don't have permissions on C:\
On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 6:20 AM -0400, "AlbertHall" <jim@...> wrote:
After many install/uninstall attempts I have finally got it working.
During Eagle install it offers to install to 'C:\EAGLE-7.6.0'
Changing this to 'C:\Program Files\Eagle-7_6_0' and all is well.
It seems to be the 'EAGLE' in all capitals that causes the problem.
|
