开云体育

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

Uploaded By: Keystonebart <bdm_brian_meyer@...>

Description:
Another nice case, I purchased and easily installed

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Hi Oristo

Yes if you load is also perfect 50ohm but such a load cost many $ ? although the load supplied with the NanoVNA is pretty fine and you correctly mentioned "observe no appreciable reflection" which requires both the candidate cable and load are good quality. Have a look at AC6LA home page about ZPlots and the his coac calbe information where you see the velocity factor which has influence on the delay is frequency dependent. He has a direct graph on this issue
Good luck with your experiment

Kind regards

Kurt



-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Oristo
Sendt: 4. oktober 2019 22:59
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [nanovna-users] Cal-Kit Standards' Definitions



Thanks for the response!

Remember the Electrical delay assumes and ideal 50 transmission line

So, if I

* properly calibrate at the VNA port

* plug in a candidate cable terminated with calibration load

* observe no appreciable reflection



.. then that cable unterminated should be satisfactory for delay testing..

What's the link?

Thanks for the info on the T check.

Annotated menu map for updated firmware, take 1:


* broken branch FORMAT->LOGMAG requires CSS fix, may take awhile..
* links and help text not yet reworked..

I mainly want feedback about missing menu branches and/or leaves

Does anyone know why ELECTRICAL DELAY is under SCALE
instead of e.g. CONFIG?

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 11:25 AM, Bo, OZ2M wrote:

….. When it comes to the NanoVNA numbers may be somewhat confusing. I for one do

have some difficulties sorting one H/W from the other …..

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bo, the different hardware is the easiest to sort out if you know the historical background. Here is what I have learned:

1. In 2016 edy555 created the open source NanoVNA project on GitHub. I'm not sure why he did not commercially manufacture the device, but …..
2, In early 2019 hugen cloned the open source schematic, manufactured the NanoVNA with frequency range expansion and NanoVNA Sharp software.
3. hugen's product is the black NanoVNA with shields on CH0 and CH1.
4. Noting the successful and positive feedback from buyer's of hugen's product, other Chinese manufacturers soon started selling clones of the clone.
5. There appeared a white clone with salamander design and a black clone without shields on CH0 and CH1.
6. hugen's clone and all the subsequent clones use the same edy555 schematic design. It is a testament to the robust nature of edy555's design that, performance wise, none of our group member's have been able to demonstrate a difference between the three different clones.
7. In September of this year another NanoVNA was marketed. It is called the NanoVNA-F. The NanoVNA-F is RTOS based, has a 4.3" display, and has a upper frequency limit of 1 GHz. It hasn't been out long enough for end user's to give their reviews but that should start happening soon. Out of the box it does not have a software program ready to use, such as NanoVNA-Sharp or Rune's nanoVNA-saver.
8. edy555 has asked hugen to re-name his product to NanoVNA-H to distinguish it.

So as of now, there are only two hardware versions being sold: The NanoVNA (-H) and the NanoVNA-F. Both edy555 and hugen have started development on a version 2 device, so "stay tuned to a theater near you".

The different firmware versions is another can of worms that hopefully someone else will open.

Herb

On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 at 16:08, <in3elx@...> wrote:

How do you try the edy555 firmware since it is not a .DFU?

DfuSe_Demo_V3.0.6_Setup.exe also installs DfuFileMgr.exe,
which can convert to dfu.

I tried but something is wrong.
I would like to try a tool for the original ady555 binary.

I just did this on Windows 10.
First, get the edy555 0.2.2 file:
from there, click the 'releases' icon near the top
the latest release is 0.2.2
click 'nanovna-firmware-0.2.2.zip' to download it to a place you
will remember. I put mine in c:\addons
Next, unzip it in a place you will remember :-)
I put mine in C:\addons\nanovna-firmware-0.2.2
Next, convert the .bin to .dfu
Start > STMicroelectronics > Dfu file manager
There are two choices. We want to GENERATE a DFU file from a BIN
file. Click OK.
On the right side, half way down there is a button for S19 or Hex. Click that.
Navigate to the place you unzipped 0.2.2, and go down into the build
directory. On my machine that is
C:\addons\nanovna-firmware-0.2.2\build
Click on ch.hex, and then Open.
Click Generate
You will be asked to save the file. I called mine nano_0.2.2.dfu,
and saved it in the same directory.
You get a message 'Success for Image for alternate setting...'
Click OK.

Now I have C:\addons\nanovna-firmware-0.2.2\build\nano_0.2.2.dfu

I used this dfu file to flash the NanoVNA with the DfuSe Demo 3.0.6 program.
I hope that helps!

Ciao!
--buck

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 01:13 PM, Oristo wrote:

do SA612s not feed I and Q into ADC?

Indeed. Two separate signals. For IQ mixing the LO inputs would have to be 90 degrees out of phase and the input must be the same. Both are not the case.
The nanoVna needs to measure two independent signals at the same time. Actually three. But the adc is stereo so one input is switched between reflection and transmission signal

* does not mixing always generate sum and difference frequencies..??
sin A cos B = (sin(A + B)+sin(A - B))/2

Indeed. Here the difference is zero e.g. DC and the output is averaged which is a very effective low pass filter so the sum at 10kHz is eliminated
No need for other filters

Hi Erik -

Thank you!

I have not yet looked at nanoVNA firmware
and supposed more similarity to SDR than evidently exists.

The DSP does quadrature mixing down to DC
so there is no mirror signal to suppress

I need to do homework here:
* do SA612s not feed I and Q into ADC?
* does not mixing always generate sum and difference frequencies..??
sin A cos B = (sin(A + B)+sin(A - B))/2

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 02:34 PM, Oristo wrote:

How do you try the edy555 firmware since it is not a .DFU?

DfuSe_Demo_V3.0.6_Setup.exe also installs DfuFileMgr.exe,
which can convert to dfu.

I tried but something is wrong.
I would like to try a tool for the original ady555 binary.

Edy555 has implemented in his GitHub nanoVNA repository a command to set the threshold for switching to harmonics mode
Command
threshold {Frequency in Hz}
The default is 300MHz.
After changing you can use the save configuration command to permanently store the new value
This greatly simplifies testing if your SI5351 has difficult reaching 300MHz and if so, provides a easy workaround
I can not test now. Maybe tomorrow

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 01:10 PM, Oristo wrote:

It might be helpful to newcomers
if these links could be put into the footer of each message.

Let me know what is missing (bottom Wiki entry):

I like it. I've been using a VM with Ubuntu 18.04, so this gave me a chance to try Windows 10.
I'm already a DIYer who uses STM chips, so flashing firmware is pretty comfortable to me.

What I am hoping for is that the group owner puts a footer in each forum/mail message so that everyone will be aware of the wiki, the files section, and your page.
--buck

I've been using a wooden toothpick. Works great.

--
Phil - AD5X

@Oristo

The help file refers to quadrature sampling done with the SI5351 and the two SA612.
This is wrong. Some of the references go to IQ downconversion for SDR but the nanoVNA works differently
The two SA612 convert two uncorrelated signals ( the bridge unbalance and the power reference) to the 5kHz IF frequency send to the adc's
The DSP does quadrature mixing down to DC so there is no mirror signal to suppress

I am preparing an updated menu annotated map,
based on attached menu screen shots, of which I captured 15.

Let me know if I missed any or have suggestions
e.g. for improving annotations of unchanged menu items:

From: hwalker
[]
David Taylor pointed out that even though it was manufactured by HP its specs were lukewarm at best.
[]
Herb
==========================

Not me. Possibly Dr. Kirby.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web:
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

Herb,

Thanks for your comments. You make good points to remember.

I am not presently in a position to have a "gold" standard available. That would be nice. And, I am not in need of absolute National Bureau of Standards calibration either. However, I am interested in knowing if the data is believable. Is the device doing better than generating random numbers. Well, I think the T-test I did suggests it is much better than that.

When I just look at the impedance of the T-Test circuit I used, the nanoVNA shows the impedance to be within an ohm of 25 ohms up to about 170 MHz. To me, this seems quite acceptable even though there may be a 4% error in the measurement. But, as you point out, that is referenced to the load I used to calibrate the VNA.

That load does show 50.0 ohms on a very good BK Precision ohmmeter at DC so there is hope it is pretty accurate, especially at low frequencies. I must say that this ohmmeter is the most precise device I own. I do have some 50-ohm loads that don't measure nearly as well at DC and show it in comparison to the one I use. For example - When I measure a load (two 10-dB pads hooked together) that is 54.3 ohms at DC and the VNA shows the parallel equivalent resistance to be between 54 and 54.5 ohms at all frequencies below 300 MHz, I assume that indicates the VNA is pretty good and my calibration load is pretty good over all of those frequencies. This seems to be better than about 0.6% accuracy to me. I would call this excellent for a hobbyist device. This seems to be a real indication of the accuracy of the measurements near 50 ohms?

I don't really need to know the impedance my amateur radio transmitter is working into to a better accuracy than 4%. In fact, I think that precision is far better than the SWR measurement in my amateur radio transceiver. I am sure you know the VSWR measurement is supposed to be 2.0 in this T-Check measurement. The worst VSWR measurement is above 1.94 at at or below 190 MHz and at or above 1.9 all the way to 300 MHz. So, this suggests fairly good accuracy for amateur purposes, especially for an inexpensive device like this.

I am also impressed that the measurements with the nanoVNA are fairly stable and repeatable. If, today, I check a calibration made yesterday against the same loads or cables used to generate the calibration, I get a very similar answer, often far less than a degree in phase variation and 0.1 dB in an amplitude for an open. Using the same through calibration I get very repeatable results for S21 amplitude and phase as well. I assume that this is mostly testing the VNA device and not the loads or the cable. I am sorry to report that is not true for other hobbyist VNA devices I have tried.

--
Bryan, WA5VAH

I have tested your nice App with a Moto e5 Android 8 and I see data corruption of S21 that changes in frequency and density from sweep to sweep. Beside that, all seem to work fine!

73, Norbert, DG1KPN

Hi

When it comes to the NanoVNA numbers may be somewhat confusing. I for one do have some difficulties sorting one H/W from the other and even more so when it comes to the F/W. I would be surprised if I am the only one.

To be honest I am in a haze. Like me, others may revert to one particular design, not because they don't want something else, but solely because there is not a detailed overview. As indicated by others some piggybacking on brand names definitely blurs the picture.

Bo

Very good Mario, better than my needle, will give it back to my wife. Any pencil with only plastic on the tip, and the lead retracted, works. It is still sharper than my needle.

Torbjorn