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I have understood that calibration with a jig in place moves the reference plane of the device to the “business end” of the jig, so that it will be accurate despite the stray reactances of the jig. Is this not the case?

Victor

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 02:44 AM, jmr wrote:

In my opinion all of the jigs shown in this thread significantly degrade the
true potential of the nanovna. They are fine if you just want to roughly
measure reactance across LF through to VHF but they will significantly degrade
the performance of the nanovna for critical measurements like capacitor or
inductor ESR.

Hello jmr,

Roger has shown a very good suggestion for a simple test setup.

It's very easy to criticize something across the board without saying how to make it better.
If you want to make *critical measurements*, like Equivalent Series Resistance, you should buy a device from Keithley.

Rudi DL5FA

Just a heads-up Raymond. Your 2 websites:

CEO Clear Wave Ltd.
Scientific Writing Courses:

are "out to lunch", i.e. 'non-functional', just saying. I do like your "perspective", thanks for your input.
Mike C.
Sand-mountain, Trenton, GA, living on "the brow".

Hello! Just wondering if anyone is offering a unit currently being sold that goes up to 6ghz? I'm on OwO's notification list, but theirs doesn't seem to be in production yet. I'd like to purchase ASAP!
Thanks!

Vladimir,

I got my new H4 in the mail today and seen that the firmware in it was old as well. When I went to upgrade it with the same process I got a new problem with the driver. the USB populated under the Universal Serial Bus Controllers tab and had the below items listed in the picture below.

Is there a different driver process for a new to me H4?

Thanks,

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 05:44 PM, jmr wrote:

"I'm wondering what the advantages and disadvantages are of each."

In my opinion all of the jigs shown in this thread significantly degrade the
true potential of the nanovna. They are fine if you just want to roughly
measure reactance across LF through to VHF but they will significantly degrade
the performance of the nanovna for critical measurements like capacitor or
inductor ESR.

I have tried to show jigs that can be easily built by members of this group. I find them quite accurate for typical measurements by hobbyists and hams. I will post some more test data over the next few days.

I am interested to see what you recommend. Could you please show photos of what you built that can be replicated by group members and used with the standard firmware and apps like NanoVNA Saver and NanoVNA app by OneOf Eleven.

Thanks - Roger

"I'm wondering what the advantages and disadvantages are of each."

In my opinion all of the jigs shown in this thread significantly degrade the true potential of the nanovna. They are fine if you just want to roughly measure reactance across LF through to VHF but they will significantly degrade the performance of the nanovna for critical measurements like capacitor or inductor ESR.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 04:23 PM, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:

I think that the lead lengths on Roger's fixture could be tightened up quite a
bit. 73, Don N2VGU.

Perhaps, but not at all consequentially at 60MHz and below, IMO.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 03:23 PM, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:

I think that the lead lengths on Roger's fixture could be tightened up quite a
bit. 73, Don N2VGU.

Which fixture? SMD or Box?

Lead length of test component, cal loads or fixture itself?

Roger

I think that the lead lengths on Roger's fixture could be tightened up quite a bit. 73, Don N2VGU.

There’s a mistake in the map. The MEASURE entry, not BACK should be connected to the lower level. (one block higher)
Gene – K1AVE


From: Vladimir Lebedev<mailto:dl7pga@...>
Sent: Monday, September 6, 2021 3:51 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [nanovna-users] Nano VNA Classic/H upgrade #firmware

Andy, here is Menu Map for NanoVNA-H4 from Hugen (some differences to the menu structure of NanoVNA-H)
/g/nanovna-users/files/NanoVNA%20Menu%20Structure%20Map-v1_0_69.pdf
Vladimir

Thanks
*Clyde K. Spencer*



On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 6:08 PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 02:52 PM, Clyde Spencer wrote:

I am curious. What is the isolation on these jigs with nothing connected?
The jig by itself and with the open connected.

Isolation??

These jigs are only used for S11 reflection measurements of components.
When open there is a very tight dot on the right hand side of the Smith
chart.

Roger

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 02:52 PM, Clyde Spencer wrote:

I am curious. What is the isolation on these jigs with nothing connected?
The jig by itself and with the open connected.

Isolation??

These jigs are only used for S11 reflection measurements of components. When open there is a very tight dot on the right hand side of the Smith chart.

Roger

I am curious. What is the isolation on these jigs with nothing connected?
The jig by itself and with the open connected.

Thanks,

*Clyde K. Spencer*



On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 2:44 PM Roger Need via groups.io <sailtamarack=
[email protected]> wrote:

For measuring larger components below 60 MHz I use a couple of other jigs
which work quite well. The first one is built with off-the-shelf cables
and a BNC to banana jack adapter. I built a version in a box without the
bulky adapter that works slightly better and is easier to use. The cal
loads were built from double-sided scrap PCB, copper foil and a 49.9 ohm
SMD resistor.

Photos attached

Roger

Andy, here is Menu Map for NanoVNA-H4 from Hugen (some differences to the menu structure of NanoVNA-H)
/g/nanovna-users/files/NanoVNA%20Menu%20Structure%20Map-v1_0_69.pdf
Vladimir

Thank you!

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 12:28 PM Vladimir Lebedev <dl7pga@...> wrote:

Andy, see here

/g/nanovna-users/files/Dislord%27s%20Nanovna%20-H%20Firmware
last fw version from DiSLord 1.0.69.
Attention! ZIP file has FW for all variants of NanoVNA:
NanoVNA-H
NanoVNA-H4
and for
NanoVNA V2/V2Plus/V2Plus, but this FW works not with newest HW of
V2Plus/V2Plus4

73 de Vladimir , dl7pga





--

*Andy Sayler, Head Monkey | Keyed Up/Oil Can Garage.*
Down The Street | Lynden, WA 98264 | mobile (360) 319-7417

Andy, see here
/g/nanovna-users/files/Dislord%27s%20Nanovna%20-H%20Firmware
last fw version from DiSLord 1.0.69.
Attention! ZIP file has FW for all variants of NanoVNA:
NanoVNA-H
NanoVNA-H4
and for
NanoVNA V2/V2Plus/V2Plus, but this FW works not with newest HW of V2Plus/V2Plus4

73 de Vladimir , dl7pga

Thanks for the reply, Vladimir.

Yes, I was able to fumble my way around and did in fact find that at the
time of writing my first note I didn't have the firmware installed right. I
was able to get that accomplished and the rest came together well with the
directions. Boy oh boy does that new firmware make a huge difference. this
little H model has a whole new lease on life.

Thank you.

--
*Andy Sayler, Head Monkey | Keyed Up/Oil Can Garage.*
Down The Street | Lynden, WA 98264 | mobile (360) 319-7417

For measuring larger components below 60 MHz I use a couple of other jigs which work quite well. The first one is built with off-the-shelf cables and a BNC to banana jack adapter. I built a version in a box without the bulky adapter that works slightly better and is easier to use. The cal loads were built from double-sided scrap PCB, copper foil and a 49.9 ohm SMD resistor.

Photos attached

Roger

On 9/6/21 10:55 AM, Maynard Wright, P. E., W6PAP wrote:

Hi, Jim,

Schelkunoff and Friis define "end effect" as being due to the non-zero current flow into the capacitance of the end cap of a finite radius conductor (Section 8.23).? The ARRL Antenna Books and Handbooks define end effect as being due to the increased capacitance of the loop of wire through the end insulator.? Some of the Antenna Books mention the dielectric constant of the end insulator as being a factor.? The 1952 Handbook (my first brand new one) makes a clear distinction between the shortening of the resonant length as a function of the length to diameter ratio and the end loop/insulator effect, which it terms "end effect."

yeah, but the "shortening for resonance" exists even if there is no "end insulator" (example is a rigid rod).

Schelkunoff is talking about a *model* for the wire antenna that would be simple to calculate (along with a bicone feed, right?). That is, he and Friis published a simplified model that would allow calculation of various things by hand/slide-rule.? The actual calculation to solve the integral involves summing infinite series that do not rapidly converge, so they aren't analytically convenient.

A lot of people from the late 1800s on developed a whole raft of approximations to make computation simple.? Sort of intermediate, for instance, is King's 3 term approximation.? They all start by assuming a particular current distribution, and go from there.

In discussing current expansion on wires, the NEC-2 description acknowledges that current may flow into the end cap when the free end is a wire of finite radius.? Separate expressions are provided for a free end and a junction, although the term "end effect" is not used.

That's a slightly different thing - NEC makes a thin wire assumption, and doesn't model currents going "around" the circumference of a thick conductor, nor does it model currents on the end plate of a "wire" - imagine a solid end tube.?? The large diameter "wire" is modeled, essentially, as a bunch of infinitely thin wires in parallel at a radius from the center (like a cage dipole)? (although wrapped into the basis function, they're not separately modeled).? It also uses the diameter when computing the skin resistance effect for a lossy wire.

These seem to be the same effect, but with the ARRL description describing the larger contribution of the end loop and insulator that Schelkunoff and Friis and the NEC-2 description ignore.

Chapters 24 and 25 of Orfanidis seem to assume zero current at a free end, but I'll have to go back and read them in more detail. Fortunately, I can run a lot of Matlab code under GNU Octave, which is easier on my budget.

Virtually all of Orfanidis runs under Octave - many hours spent on airplanes doing modeling with his codes.? There might be a couple routines you have to rename because they overlap with something Octave provides.

73,

Maynard
W6PAP


On 9/3/21 9:58 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

On 9/3/21 9:23 AM, Maynard Wright, P. E., W6PAP wrote:

Texts and references on antennas such as Schelkunoff and Friis, "Antennas - Theory and Practice," Bell Telephone Laboratories, 1952 (printed by Wiley) also discuss "end effect" and "fringing effect" as being characteristic of an antenna element that has a finite radius.

yeah, but later works (Kraus, Balanis) abandon that terminology - because it implies that there's some sort of lumped phenomenon going on, and there isn't.

What it really comes from is if you integrate the Electric Field Integral Equation (EFIE) the solution is a combination of the cosine integral and the sine integral (not the integral of cosine and sin). The real part of the feedpoint impedance is related to the Cosine integral, and the imaginary part is the Sine integral. it doesn't go through zero at lambda/2, but slightly different.

Check out Kraus, chapter 5 (where the cosine and sine integrals are defined) or chapter 10 section 3 (where the self impedance is rigorously developed).? Chapter 9 on the Moment Method is also good (esp since it's what NEC is based on) - (Chapter in 2nd ed, probably the same).

Orfanidis, chapter 24 and 25 - Chap 24 gives all the popular ways (and some not so popular) ways to approximately solve the equation with comparisons among them. Chap 25, section 3 looks at self and mutual impedance, and derives the solution using the Ci() and Si() functions.




I find Kraus more "readable" but Orfanidis, since he's updating it all the time, and it's online, is better for more modern approaches. Orfanidis is substantially more math intensive, but on the other hand, he gives you matlab examples for computation.