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Mid afternoon today I found myself in a Missoula tea room waiting for my spouse. No WiFi, no power adapter, but enough flat space for me to knock out a few emails.
I opened my late 2017 MacBook Pro (15 inch, 4 core i7, 512 GByte SSD, 1g GB RAM, Touch Bar/4 TB3 ports, macOS 10.14.6, only to discover an onscreen message “your Mac has been restarted because of a problem” (I’ve seen that on screen only rarely in the past).
The internal SSD is about 60% full. I had 8-10 apps running, including several tabs in Safari that displayed auto-updating many-layered USGS and Sonoma County emergency services maps displaying fire perimeter, MODIS data from USGS mapping Satellites, CalTrans and Sonoma County Sheriff’s evacuation maps (memory intensive).
My SSD is encrypted by FileVault2.
I dismissed the message as an oddity and tried to type an email message, but within a minute or two, the computer restarted, with the same message repeated.
I tried booting into Safe Mode (mistakenly, I went first to Single User Mode and realized I’d get nowhere with the command line stuff spewing across the screen). However, I couldn’t get Safe Mode to boot to completion, so I gave up and waited until I was home to trouble shoot more. There, with the power adapter plugged in, I was able to get into Safe Mode and run Disk Utiliity. I read a bit and came across recommendations that I should boot into the recovery partition and run Disk Utility. So, I did that. My encrypted boot partition passed, but when I tried to run Disk Utility on the other partitions on the SSD, I was told about some errors or corruption that might affect booting. A bit more “research” and I uncovered some instructions about unlocking the encrypted disk by mounting the “wrapper” (my term, not Apple’s) partitions first.
Following those instructions, I was able to unlock those pre-boot partitions and run Disk Utility, which now reported NO errors.
I restarted the Mac, logged back into my admin account, and I’ve had no problems over about 3 hours on the computer this evening.
Is it likely there are problems left I don’t recall seeing ANY messages stating that anything had been repaired.
Jim Robertson
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Howdy
Have you ever opened the computer and used vacuum and canned air to clear out dust?
Denver Dan
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iSent from my iPhone X
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On Oct 31, 2019, at 1:09 AM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
?Mid afternoon today I found myself in a Missoula tea room waiting for my spouse. No WiFi, no power adapter, but enough flat space for me to knock out a few emails.
I opened my late 2017 MacBook Pro (15 inch, 4 core i7, 512 GByte SSD, 1g GB RAM, Touch Bar/4 TB3 ports, macOS 10.14.6, only to discover an onscreen message “your Mac has been restarted because of a problem” (I’ve seen that on screen only rarely in the past).
The internal SSD is about 60% full. I had 8-10 apps running, including several tabs in Safari that displayed auto-updating many-layered USGS and Sonoma County emergency services maps displaying fire perimeter, MODIS data from USGS mapping Satellites, CalTrans and Sonoma County Sheriff’s evacuation maps (memory intensive).
My SSD is encrypted by FileVault2.
I dismissed the message as an oddity and tried to type an email message, but within a minute or two, the computer restarted, with the same message repeated.
I tried booting into Safe Mode (mistakenly, I went first to Single User Mode and realized I’d get nowhere with the command line stuff spewing across the screen). However, I couldn’t get Safe Mode to boot to completion, so I gave up and waited until I was home to trouble shoot more. There, with the power adapter plugged in, I was able to get into Safe Mode and run Disk Utiliity. I read a bit and came across recommendations that I should boot into the recovery partition and run Disk Utility. So, I did that. My encrypted boot partition passed, but when I tried to run Disk Utility on the other partitions on the SSD, I was told about some errors or corruption that might affect booting. A bit more “research” and I uncovered some instructions about unlocking the encrypted disk by mounting the “wrapper” (my term, not Apple’s) partitions first.
Following those instructions, I was able to unlock those pre-boot partitions and run Disk Utility, which now reported NO errors.
I restarted the Mac, logged back into my admin account, and I’ve had no problems over about 3 hours on the computer this evening.
Is it likely there are problems left I don’t recall seeing ANY messages stating that anything had been repaired.
Jim Robertson
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On Oct 30, 2019, at 23:22, Daniel Settles <denver1.dan1@...> wrote:
Have you ever opened the computer and used vacuum and canned air to clear out dust?
I have not. Perhaps that’s what I’ll try should this happen again. I’m thinking I must have accomplished SOMETHING by mounting and running DFA on those other partitions. Jim
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On Oct 31, 2019, jimrobertson wrote: I tried booting into Safe Mode ….
However, I couldn’t get Safe Mode to boot to completion, so I gave up and?waited until I was home to trouble shoot more.
At times, when I’ve booted into Safe Mode because something flaky was?happening, it seemed to take a long time (even running on an SSD) to do its thing. My interpretation was always that it was finding a lot to fix, so I let it run until it?eventually finished. Sometimes, as a check, I would then boot AGAIN into Safe Mode, in which case it?completed its business quite quickly.
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Another useful idea: download and install iStat Menus to monitor interior?temperatures and fan speeds.
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On Oct 31, 2019, Daniel Settles wrote: Have you ever opened the computer and used vacuum and canned air to clear?out dust?
I opened my late 2017 MacBook Pro (15 inch, 4 core i7, 512 GByte SSD, 1g GB?RAM, Touch Bar/4 TB3 ports, macOS 10.14.6, only to discover an onscreen?message “your Mac has been restarted because of a problem” (I’ve seen that on?screen only rarely in the past).
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On Oct 31, 2019, at 8:23 AM, Jim Saklad via Groups.Io < jimdoc@...> wrote:
Another useful idea: download and install iStat Menus to monitor interior?temperatures and fan speeds.
Are there established norms and “uh oh” values for these parameters? My assumption is that if these are fine, it’s unlikely that dust collecting inside the machine is not the issue.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim Robertson
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I?wrote:
Another useful idea: download and install iStat Menus to monitor interior?temperatures and fan speeds.
Are there established norms and “uh oh” values for these parameters? My?assumption is that if these are fine, it’s unlikely that dust collecting inside the?machine is not the issue.
Jim Robertson
Dust becomes a problem when it interferes with cooling.? If your machine overheats, sometimes you notice it because part of the case gets hot?to the touch. It’s nicer to see the monitored temps reading high. Also seeing the fans speed(s) running high. I don't have a list of OK numbers. I look occasionally and get a sense of the readings?when the machine seems to be running normally.
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Did you travel with the MBP in sleep mode, could it have overheated from lack of circulation?
Brent,
on my iPad
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On Oct 30, 2019, at 10:09 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Mid afternoon today I found myself in a Missoula tea room waiting for my spouse. No WiFi, no power adapter, but enough flat space for me to knock out a few emails.
I opened my late 2017 MacBook Pro (15 inch, 4 core i7, 512 GByte SSD, 1g GB RAM, Touch Bar/4 TB3 ports, macOS 10.14.6, only to discover an onscreen message “your Mac has been restarted because of a problem” (I’ve seen that on screen only rarely in the past).
The internal SSD is about 60% full. I had 8-10 apps running, including several tabs in Safari that displayed auto-updating many-layered USGS and Sonoma County emergency services maps displaying fire perimeter, MODIS data from USGS mapping Satellites, CalTrans and Sonoma County Sheriff’s evacuation maps (memory intensive).
My SSD is encrypted by FileVault2.
I dismissed the message as an oddity and tried to type an email message, but within a minute or two, the computer restarted, with the same message repeated.
I tried booting into Safe Mode (mistakenly, I went first to Single User Mode and realized I’d get nowhere with the command line stuff spewing across the screen). However, I couldn’t get Safe Mode to boot to completion, so I gave up and waited until I was home to trouble shoot more. There, with the power adapter plugged in, I was able to get into Safe Mode and run Disk Utiliity. I read a bit and came across recommendations that I should boot into the recovery partition and run Disk Utility. So, I did that. My encrypted boot partition passed, but when I tried to run Disk Utility on the other partitions on the SSD, I was told about some errors or corruption that might affect booting. A bit more “research” and I uncovered some instructions about unlocking the encrypted disk by mounting the “wrapper” (my term, not Apple’s) partitions first.
Following those instructions, I was able to unlock those pre-boot partitions and run Disk Utility, which now reported NO errors.
I restarted the Mac, logged back into my admin account, and I’ve had no problems over about 3 hours on the computer this evening.
Is it likely there are problems left I don’t recall seeing ANY messages stating that anything had been repaired.
Jim Robertson
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I’m sure there are, and you could search the ‘net... I run
iStat menus myself, and assume(d) that the default parameters are
either read from the Mac, or the developer knows what they are for
all the macs that they support.
Temperature readings are simply just that - read from the sensors
that have communication features.
I find it useful to have this app, and I keep my temp readings in
the uppermost Finder bar. FWIW I only monitor 2 sensors on my Mac
Pro: the Northbridge heatsink and the diode (running at 48 and
57°C) as these are problematic in the 2008-2010 models. (Heatsink
separation due to broken nylon connectors is the issue.)
I had just replaced the RAM sticks with 16MB that have heat
sinks, and my temperatures ramped up 15° (to about 70°C) to the
point where my Mac would shut down without warning... so I used
the custom settings feature of iStat to increase various fan
speeds; now temperatures are actually further down than they had
been before the RAM upgrade... Yes, I did vacuum out all dust I
could see...
...so for anyone with high temps, at least it‘s a stop-gap
method to increase fan circulation if you can’t get around to
de-dusting the computer just yet... and it does let you know all
kinds of other stats too...
Cheers
JR
---
Are there established norms and “uh oh” values for these
parameters? My assumption is that if these are fine, it’s unlikely
that dust collecting inside the machine is not the issue.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim Robertson
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On Oct 31, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
Did you travel with the MBP in sleep mode, could it have overheated from lack of circulation?
That is possible. Typically when I’m using the laptop away from its usual locations, when I finish using it I’ll just slip it into my laptop carrying case and leave. Once or twice (at least) I’ve arrived somewhere else, removed it from its case, and found it very warm with almost no battery charge remaining. However, that’s very infrequent, and when I witnessed multiple restarts yesterday the computer was not unduly warm at any time.
I’ve not yet downloaded iStat Menus but plan to do so and monitor it to see if it provides some clues.
Thanks for suggesting this as a possible cause.
Jim Robertson
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 00:05, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson= [email protected]> wrote: That is possible. Typically when I’m using the laptop away from its usual locations, when I finish using it I’ll just slip it into my laptop carrying case and leave. Once or twice (at least) I’ve arrived somewhere else, removed it from its case, and found it very warm with almost no battery charge remaining. However, that’s very infrequent, and when I witnessed multiple restarts yesterday the computer was not unduly warm at any time.
I’ve not yet downloaded iStat Menus but plan to do so and monitor it to see if it provides some clues.
Thanks for suggesting this as a possible cause.
Although iStat Menus is not expensive, it's not free. Have you done the obvious and looked at energy usage in Activity Monitor?
Otto
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Have you done the obvious and looked at energy usage in Activity Monitor?
Yes. I didn’t find anything untoward. I think the suggestion to obtain iStat Menus was so I could see readings from temperature sensors, which all seem OK in the hour or so I’ve been monitoring them with my machine disconnected from a/c power
Looks as though I have 14 days to see if iStat Menu will tell me anything for free and to decide whether it’s a tool I should be paying for anyway.
Thanks for your input.
Jim Robertson
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There you have it Jim R. If you travel with a MBP and it gets jostled, it can waken it. Remember, it is only a magnet that is causing it to go to sleep. The MBP then starts up and needs circulation for cooling. It can either overheat, or run down the battery.
This used to happen to me when I went to the library. Luckily for me, the library is only 5 blocks away.
On Oct 31, 2019, at 5:05 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io wrote: On Oct 31, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
Did you travel with the MBP in sleep mode, could it have overheated from lack of circulation?
That is possible. Typically when I’m using the laptop away from its usual locations, when I finish using it I’ll just slip it into my laptop carrying case and leave. Once or twice (at least) I’ve arrived somewhere else, removed it from its case, and found it very warm with almost no battery charge remaining. However, that’s very infrequent, and when I witnessed multiple restarts yesterday the computer was not unduly warm at any time.
I’ve not yet downloaded iStat Menus but plan to do so and monitor it to see if it provides some clues.
Thanks for suggesting this as a possible cause.
Jim Robertson
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I meant to reply to the question about the temp range. I believe when you get to 140F you will start noticing issues, but don't quote me on that. I use Hardware Monitor, and old app, and keep the display visible on the desktop. I monitor the temp and fan speed. I have done this for years, so that when I notice and increase or problems, that is where my eyes glance. Each machine is different and each sensor, will vary some. If I physically do some repairs, especially something that requires removing the heat sink, that is something I check.
I have had this app displayed on the desktop since my 2000 G4 Pismo.
On Nov 1, 2019, at 4:25 AM, Otto Nikolaus via Groups.Io wrote: On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 at 00:05, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson= [email protected]> wrote: That is possible. Typically when I’m using the laptop away from its usual locations, when I finish using it I’ll just slip it into my laptop carrying case and leave. Once or twice (at least) I’ve arrived somewhere else, removed it from its case, and found it very warm with almost no battery charge remaining. However, that’s very infrequent, and when I witnessed multiple restarts yesterday the computer was not unduly warm at any time.
I’ve not yet downloaded iStat Menus but plan to do so and monitor it to see if it provides some clues.
Thanks for suggesting this as a possible cause.
Although iStat Menus is not expensive, it's not free. Have you done the obvious and looked at energy usage in Activity Monitor?
Otto
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Jim, it is most likely that you put it in a backpack. Get iStat anyway. It is a great indicator of what is going on when you have an issue, and if you have a draining new app installed. Just like Activity Monitor, or auto insurance.
Besides Hardware Monitor, I have have the CPU History displayed on the desktop for nearly 20 years. Trying to open them after a problem is almost useless, especially if the Mac froze up.
Brent
On Nov 1, 2019, at 6:08 AM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io wrote:
Have you done the obvious and looked at energy usage in Activity Monitor?
Yes. I didn’t find anything untoward. I think the suggestion to obtain iStat Menus was so I could see readings from temperature sensors, which all seem OK in the hour or so I’ve been monitoring them with my machine disconnected from a/c power
Looks as though I have 14 days to see if iStat Menu will tell me anything for free and to decide whether it’s a tool I should be paying for anyway.
Thanks for your input.
Jim Robertson
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On Nov 1, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
Jim, it is most likely that you put it in a backpack.
Before the 2017 fire, I had three separate but beautifully cushioned and perfectly sized laptop carrying cases from Brenthaven, one a briefcase-styled unit, one a backback, and one a delicious leather weekender. Nos. 2 & 3 perished in the fire, but I still use #1, which looks as good as it did when I bought it more than 5 years ago. My guess is that if the lid opened partially and the Mac heated because of inadequate ventilation while it was in the carrying case it was more my carelessness than a problem with the carrying case.
If that’s the issue, though, is it likely what I experienced might be the result? Again, when I pulled the Mac from its carrying case, it was at the “your mac has restarted because of a problem” screen, and it was not warm, and the battery hadn’t drained. Moreover, it kept restarting within a minute or two intentional reboots, and none of this was accompanied by any signs of the computer overheating. Disk Utility (when I examined the computer from the recovery partition) reported some problem with the pre-boot blocks of my encrypted SSD, and after I unlocked the encrypted boot partition to run the “repair” module of DU, ?on all partitions, the problem has not recurred (even though Disk Utility did not report that it had done any repairs).
I was required to enter my admin PW before Disk Utility could examine the SSD. DU reports now that the main bootable partition remains encrypted, which is what I’d expect.
Maybe it’s an oddity that will remain unexplained.
I do have another issue with this laptop. I’ve had keyboard issues for at least the past two years. I did spill some liquid onto the case before this started, but that was confined to the upper left corner of teh keyboard, and affected primarily the backslash and bracket (angle and squiggly) keys. We cleaned the keyboard with compressed air and application of an electronics cleaner that my son had used on many occasions to revive Windows keyboards at the auto parts store where he worked, and where the keyboards generally looked as thought they’d been painted with used motor oil. The stuff worked, but a year later the ">/.” key became less responsive. In the interim Apple had issued its service bulletin for all MacBook Pro keyboards beginning with 2015 However, when i took the computer to my local Apple retail store, they discovered traces of the original liquid spill, and that terminated all discussions, even though the only misbehaving key was now the period.
The action of that key improved with whatever the Genius Bar wizard did in the back room, but it’s beome less responsive again in the past few weeks, and of course now I’m almost 200 miles distant from an Apple Retail Store.
I’m of a mind to call Apple telephone support and describe my tale of woe about the keyboard, but I fear they’ll agree to examine the computer, send me a box, then contact me in a few days and tell me they’ve levied a charge of a few hundred dollars to diagnose the issue, that they blame the recalcitrant “period” key’s sluggishness on the liquid spill, and need to charge me another $1500 for repairs.
Jim
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I'd be tempted to get a new one and use the apple trade in.
Sent from JT's Ipad - maybe using voice dictation!
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On Nov 1, 2019, at 16:36, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I’m of a mind to call Apple telephone support and describe my tale of woe about the keyboard, but I fear they’ll agree to examine the computer, send me a box, then contact me in a few days and tell me they’ve levied a charge of a few hundred dollars to diagnose the issue, that they blame the recalcitrant “period” key’s sluggishness on the liquid spill, and need to charge me another $1500 for repairs.
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Let me reply with two stories.
The first, some medical cures were not as safe as once thought. They used to "cure" syphilis. They used to have the patient swallow mercury. It was "safe" because it did not kill the patient immediately. And another "cure" for ailments was leeches. (Using an automotive contact cleaner, could be removing the conductive ink used to print the circuit in the key switch, or ineffective on the sugar from the spill.)
The other is a joke. Doc, it hurts when I do this. Well, don't do that. (Problem can't be found in the file structures, after the heating problem goes away, because there is no software damage.)
We are sorry you lost a lot of stuff in the fire, but let it go.
On Nov 1, 2019, at 1:36 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io wrote: If that’s the issue, though, is it likely what I experienced might be the result? Again, when I pulled the Mac from its carrying case, it was at the “your mac has restarted because of a problem” screen, and it was not warm, and the battery hadn’t drained. Moreover, it kept restarting within a minute or two intentional reboots, and none of this was accompanied by any signs of the computer overheating. Disk Utility (when I examined the computer from the recovery partition) reported some problem with the pre-boot blocks of my encrypted SSD, and after I unlocked the encrypted boot partition to run the “repair” module of DU, ?on all partitions, the problem has not recurred (even though Disk Utility did not report that it had done any repairs).
I was required to enter my admin PW before Disk Utility could examine the SSD. DU reports now that the main bootable partition remains encrypted, which is what I’d expect.
Maybe it’s an oddity that will remain unexplained.
I do have another issue with this laptop. I’ve had keyboard issues for at least the past two years. I did spill some liquid onto the case before this started, but that was confined to the upper left corner of teh keyboard, and affected primarily the backslash and bracket (angle and squiggly) keys. We cleaned the keyboard with compressed air and application of an electronics cleaner that my son had used on many occasions to revive Windows keyboards at the auto parts store where he worked, and where the keyboards generally looked as thought they’d been painted with used motor oil. The stuff worked, but a year later the ">/.” key became less responsive. In the interim Apple had issued its service bulletin for all MacBook Pro keyboards beginning with 2015 However, when i took the computer to my local Apple retail store, they discovered traces of the original liquid spill, and that terminated all discussions, even though the only misbehaving key was now the period.
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And how was that helpful, Brent?
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On Nov 1, 2019, at 4:35 PM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
Let me reply with two stories.
The first, some medical cures were not as safe as once thought. They used to "cure" syphilis. They used to have the patient swallow mercury. It was "safe" because it did not kill the patient immediately. And another "cure" for ailments was leeches. (Using an automotive contact cleaner, could be removing the conductive ink used to print the circuit in the key switch, or ineffective on the sugar from the spill.)
The other is a joke. Doc, it hurts when I do this. Well, don't do that. (Problem can't be found in the file structures, after the heating problem goes away, because there is no software damage.)
We are sorry you lost a lot of stuff in the fire, but let it go.
On Nov 1, 2019, at 1:36 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io wrote: If that’s the issue, though, is it likely what I experienced might be the result? Again, when I pulled the Mac from its carrying case, it was at the “your mac has restarted because of a problem” screen, and it was not warm, and the battery hadn’t drained. Moreover, it kept restarting within a minute or two intentional reboots, and none of this was accompanied by any signs of the computer overheating. Disk Utility (when I examined the computer from the recovery partition) reported some problem with the pre-boot blocks of my encrypted SSD, and after I unlocked the encrypted boot partition to run the “repair” module of DU, ?on all partitions, the problem has not recurred (even though Disk Utility did not report that it had done any repairs).
I was required to enter my admin PW before Disk Utility could examine the SSD. DU reports now that the main bootable partition remains encrypted, which is what I’d expect.
Maybe it’s an oddity that will remain unexplained.
I do have another issue with this laptop. I’ve had keyboard issues for at least the past two years. I did spill some liquid onto the case before this started, but that was confined to the upper left corner of teh keyboard, and affected primarily the backslash and bracket (angle and squiggly) keys. We cleaned the keyboard with compressed air and application of an electronics cleaner that my son had used on many occasions to revive Windows keyboards at the auto parts store where he worked, and where the keyboards generally looked as thought they’d been painted with used motor oil. The stuff worked, but a year later the ">/.” key became less responsive. In the interim Apple had issued its service bulletin for all MacBook Pro keyboards beginning with 2015 However, when i took the computer to my local Apple retail store, they discovered traces of the original liquid spill, and that terminated all discussions, even though the only misbehaving key was now the period.
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Jim wrote:
The action of that key improved with whatever the Genius Bar wizard did in the back room, but it’s beome less responsive again in the past few weeks, and of course now I’m almost 200 miles distant from an Apple Retail Store.
?
I’m of a mind to call Apple telephone support and describe my tale of woe about the keyboard, but I fear they’ll agree to examine the computer, send me a box, then contact me in a few days and tell me they’ve levied a charge of a few hundred dollars to diagnose the issue, that they blame the recalcitrant “period” key’s sluggishness on the liquid spill, and need to charge me another $1500 for repairs.
If I had your situation I'd check out Louis Rossman's service at as he is very good and will not rip you off. JC
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Jim Saklad
Brent
JR