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A question for classical music lovers
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Apologies for the length of this message; I hope I’ll get some forgiveness because much of it sets the stage for why it’s so important to me.
If someone were to ask me what piece of music and what performance I’d choose if time travel permitted it, it would be Leonard Bernstein’s performance of the Mahler 2nd Symphony at Ely Cathedral in England in 1973, conducting the London Symphony Orchestra and the Edinburgh Festival Chorus. Many of you may have watched Bradley Cooper’s attempt to channel that monument in?Maestro, the movie. I’ve just discovered that Deutsche Grammophone released a recording of it in 1974, but they also have an audio-video version available on their subscription website, <>. Unfortunately, permanent access to the recording is not offered.
Here’s the link:
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While the technical “quality” of both the audio and video betray the era of their creation, the emotion ?by Bernstein, the vocal soloists, and members of the chorus are priceless and timeless.
My question: is there a way to capture this to my own Apple devices (preferably my Mac) that’s both possible and legal, so long as I don’t distribute it to others? Failing that, is it possible to do so without getting arrested if I don’t distribute it?
Extra Credit (no Googling allowed): why is the name “Gilbert Kaplan” so relevant to this issue?
And, a movie recommendation: the Oscar-nominated Netflix Documentary The Only Girl in the Orchestra (probably the main reason I’ll watch the Oscars this year).
Jim,
This is available on DVD, which strikes me as the simplest route:
https://a.co/d/ahKROul
Also, depending on where you're located, it may be worth checking with your local library. Here in Michigan, an online network of more than 400 public libraries shares amongst their members (a fantastic resource). It looks like one library has Symphony 2 on VHS; another has #1-3 on DVD; and a third has the complete set of 9 DVDs. Worth a shot with your own library, maybe?
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 11:22?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Apologies for the length of this message; I hope I’ll get some forgiveness because much of it sets the stage for why it’s so important to me.
If someone were to ask me what piece of music and what performance I’d choose if time travel permitted it, it would be Leonard Bernstein’s performance of the Mahler 2nd Symphony at Ely Cathedral in England in 1973, conducting the London Symphony Orchestra and the Edinburgh Festival Chorus. Many of you may have watched Bradley Cooper’s attempt to channel that monument in?Maestro, the movie. I’ve just discovered that Deutsche Grammophone released a recording of it in 1974, but they also have an audio-video version available on their subscription website, <>. Unfortunately, permanent access to the recording is not offered.
Here’s the link:
|
While the technical “quality” of both the audio and video betray the era of their creation, the emotion ?by Bernstein, the vocal soloists, and members of the chorus are priceless and timeless.
My question: is there a way to capture this to my own Apple devices (preferably my Mac) that’s both possible and legal, so long as I don’t distribute it to others? Failing that, is it possible to do so without getting arrested if I don’t distribute it?
Extra Credit (no Googling allowed): why is the name “Gilbert Kaplan” so relevant to this issue?
And, a movie recommendation: the Oscar-nominated Netflix Documentary The Only Girl in the Orchestra (probably the main reason I’ll watch the Oscars this year).
On Feb 4, 2025, at 10:25, Dane Robison via groups.io <macdane@...> wrote:
This is available on DVD, which strikes me as the simplest route:
Thank you SO much. Curious that <stage-plus.com>, which is an arm of DG, didn’t choose to make me aware of the DVD when I asked. I THINK I still have an Apple DVD player somewhere, and that it connected by USB-A. Is there software from Apple or others that would allow me to archive that Ely cathedral performance to my Mac and/or iOS devices? Jim Robertson
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Such software exists, but someone else will have to advise you as I’ve never done it. Good luck!
Dane
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 12:57?PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 10:25, Dane Robison via groups.io <macdane@...> wrote:
This is available on DVD, which strikes me as the simplest route: Thank you SO much. Curious that <stage-plus.com>, which is an arm of DG, didn’t choose to make me aware of the DVD when I asked. I THINK I still have an Apple DVD player somewhere, and that it connected by USB-A. Is there software from Apple or others that would allow me to archive that Ely cathedral performance to my Mac and/or iOS devices?
Jim Robertson
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HI
Here’s an article on using Apple Screenshot and Quicktime to record video...
If you are using Firefox or Chrome, there is a extension Video Downloader Helper which probable will capture the stream for you.
You certainly can capture it for your own enjoyment.
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 8:22?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Apologies for the length of this message; I hope I’ll get some forgiveness because much of it sets the stage for why it’s so important to me.
If someone were to ask me what piece of music and what performance I’d choose if time travel permitted it, it would be Leonard Bernstein’s performance of the Mahler 2nd Symphony at Ely Cathedral in England in 1973, conducting the London Symphony Orchestra and the Edinburgh Festival Chorus. Many of you may have watched Bradley Cooper’s attempt to channel that monument in?Maestro, the movie. I’ve just discovered that Deutsche Grammophone released a recording of it in 1974, but they also have an audio-video version available on their subscription website, <>. Unfortunately, permanent access to the recording is not offered.
Here’s the link:
|
While the technical “quality” of both the audio and video betray the era of their creation, the emotion ?by Bernstein, the vocal soloists, and members of the chorus are priceless and timeless.
My question: is there a way to capture this to my own Apple devices (preferably my Mac) that’s both possible and legal, so long as I don’t distribute it to others? Failing that, is it possible to do so without getting arrested if I don’t distribute it?
Extra Credit (no Googling allowed): why is the name “Gilbert Kaplan” so relevant to this issue?
And, a movie recommendation: the Oscar-nominated Netflix Documentary The Only Girl in the Orchestra (probably the main reason I’ll watch the Oscars this year).
HI
To record it from a DVD…Handbrake would be the app to use. Paul
++++++++++++++++++++++++ Helping Los Angeles area computer users since 1988?
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 9:56?AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Feb 4, 2025, at 10:25, Dane Robison via groups.io <macdane@...> wrote:
This is available on DVD, which strikes me as the simplest route:
Thank you SO much. Curious that <stage-plus.com>, which is an arm of DG, didn’t choose to make me aware of the DVD when I asked. I THINK I still have an Apple DVD player somewhere, and that it connected by USB-A. Is there software from Apple or others that would allow me to archive that Ely cathedral performance to my Mac and/or iOS devices? Jim Robertson
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On 4 Feb 2025, at 17:56, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Feb 4, 2025, at 10:25, Dane Robison via groups.io <macdane@...> wrote:
This is available on DVD, which strikes me as the simplest route:
Thank you SO much. Curious that <stage-plus.com>, which is an arm of DG, didn’t choose to make me aware of the DVD when I asked. I THINK I still have an Apple DVD player somewhere, and that it connected by USB-A. Is there software from Apple or others that would allow me to archive that Ely cathedral performance to my Mac and/or iOS devices? Apple called it a Superdrive. I have one in my 2012 MB Pro and also an external one in case the internal one stops working (I rarely play DVDs but routinely rip music CDs). Otto
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 4:18?PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Apple called it a Superdrive. I ?have one in my 2012 MB Pro and also an external one in case the internal one stops working (I rarely play DVDs but routinely rip music CDs).
Thanks, Dane and Otto.
I’ll look for mine, plug it in to my M3 MacBook Pro, see if I can play DVDs with it, and if so, purchase that DG Mahler 1,2, 3 disc (performances at different venues). Most of the reviews are 5 star, but a few say they’re VERY upset with amazon because “they just don’t work.” That makes me think there was some incompatibility between the NTSC format of the DVD and the equipment on which it was to be played. And, I don’t know whether EITHER my computer or my TV (to which I ALREADY HAVE a 4k-capable DVD player attached) can play NTSC-formatted material.
One reviewer gave a critical review of the performance because Bernstein was “too theatrical.” Bernstein was BERNSTEIN. The reviewer also said the sound was not good and blamed the venue (the long, tall, skinny and rock-hard Ely Cathedral). If responses were possible to amazon reviews, I’d make one, the video I’ve just watched confirms Bernstein’s theatrics, but to expect a sonic experience equivalent to Davies Symphony Hall from a 1000 year old edifice is just plain WRONG!
--?
Jim Robertson
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If you’re ok waiting a bit, I ordered the DVD from our library system and would be happy to let you know how it works in a SuperDrive.
Dane
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 7:51?PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
? On Feb 4, 2025, at 4:18?PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Apple called it a Superdrive. I ?have one in my 2012 MB Pro and also an external one in case the internal one stops working (I rarely play DVDs but routinely rip music CDs).
Thanks, Dane and Otto.
I’ll look for mine, plug it in to my M3 MacBook Pro, see if I can play DVDs with it, and if so, purchase that DG Mahler 1,2, 3 disc (performances at different venues). Most of the reviews are 5 star, but a few say they’re VERY upset with amazon because “they just don’t work.” That makes me think there was some incompatibility between the NTSC format of the DVD and the equipment on which it was to be played. And, I don’t know whether EITHER my computer or my TV (to which I ALREADY HAVE a 4k-capable DVD player attached) can play NTSC-formatted material.
One reviewer gave a critical review of the performance because Bernstein was “too theatrical.” Bernstein was BERNSTEIN. The reviewer also said the sound was not good and blamed the venue (the long, tall, skinny and rock-hard Ely Cathedral). If responses were possible to amazon reviews, I’d make one, the video I’ve just watched confirms Bernstein’s theatrics, but to expect a sonic experience equivalent to Davies Symphony Hall from a 1000 year old edifice is just plain WRONG!
--?
Jim Robertson
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 19:42, Dane Robison via groups.io <macdane@...> wrote:
If you’re ok waiting a bit, I ordered the DVD from our library system and would be happy to let you know how it works in a SuperDrive.
That would be really cool! If you know the Mahler 2, just go directly to the 5th movement and watch the faces of women in the chorus, just how glorious they knew the sounds they were producing were. I WAS surprised at how muffled the organ at the end sounded. Jim
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Classical isn’t my jam, but if the performance is what you say it is, I can understand why you want it.
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Apple called it a Superdrive. I ?have one in my 2012 MB Pro and also an external one in case the internal one stops working (I rarely play DVDs but routinely rip music CDs).
Thanks, Dane and Otto.
I’ll look for mine, plug it in to my M3 MacBook Pro, see if I can play DVDs with it, and if so, purchase that DG Mahler 1,2, 3 disc (performances at different venues). Most of the reviews are 5 star, but a few say they’re VERY upset with amazon because “they just don’t work.” That makes me think there was some incompatibility between the NTSC format of the DVD and the equipment on which it was to be played. And, I don’t know whether EITHER my computer or my TV (to which I ALREADY HAVE a 4k-capable DVD player attached) can play NTSC-formatted material.
One reviewer gave a critical review of the performance because Bernstein was “too theatrical.” Bernstein was BERNSTEIN. The reviewer also said the sound was not good and blamed the venue (the long, tall, skinny and rock-hard Ely Cathedral). If responses were possible to amazon reviews, I’d make one, the video I’ve just watched confirms Bernstein’s theatrics, but to expect a sonic experience equivalent to Davies Symphony Hall from a 1000 year old edifice is just plain WRONG!
I *think* an Apple Superdrive can read any DVD format so you should be able to rip it using Handbrake into any format that will play on your TV. I assume the TV can play files over your network, or from USB?
Isn’t NTSC the USA standard anyway?
Otto
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On Feb 4, 2025, at 9:56 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Is there software from Apple or others that would allow me to archive that Ely cathedral performance to my Mac and/or iOS devices? ActivePresenter free edition (free) (Screen recorder and video editor.) __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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On Feb 5, 2025, at 4:03?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
I *think* an Apple Superdrive can read any DVD format The SuperDrive in my 2008 Mac Pro eventually was unable to read more recent DVDs. First it was Linux distributions from magazines and later included movies. I don't know whether that was inherent in the drive or that the Mac Pro's last supported version was El Capitan. -- Bev in TX
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On Feb 5, 2025, at 3:03?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
I *think* an Apple Superdrive can read any DVD format so you should be able to rip it using Handbrake into any format that will play on your TV. I assume the TV can play files over your network, or from USB?
MacTracker says that Apple didn’t discontinue the USB DVD SuperDrive until August of 2024 and that it could read AND WRITE multiple formats. The USB connection was USB 2.0 with a USB-A connector.
A quick search in my office doesn’t discover mine, but I do have another place to look in my garage. I can’t figure out when I bought it, but it was probably before the 2017 Tubbs Fire in Sonoma County destroyed pretty much everything I owned, and my records SINCE then are fairly good, so I suspect I don’t have it any more. Isn’t NTSC the USA standard anyway?
I’m pretty ignorant on this, but I DO know that the FCC mandated a change in the way TV stations broadcast over-the-air from analog to digital some time in the past 5 years or so, and the antennas that receive signals from TV broadcast over-the-air are now flat plates less than 1” thick and about 12 inches on a side rather than enormous eyesores that sit on your roof.
I DO have a 4K-capable LG DVD player attached to my 4K OLED TV, so I should be able to play the video on my TV, and that will be good enough and durable enough for me.
I think I’ll check out BestBuy and OWC, however, because those drives were pretty cheap and I likely would want to play some of my own DVDs on a Mac at some point, and since they were JUST discontinued (they’re still listed as “supported” on MacTracker) it would be useful to have one.
Thanks to everybody who addressed my core questions.
My “extra credit,” “no Googling allowed” question elicited only one comment (off list) and even with an additional clue (“perhaps the wealthiest Walter Mitty who ever lived”) he didn’t take a stab at the riddle. It’s a fascinating story, so I’ll tell it here and permit Googling just BECAUSE the minutia of the story are so amazing. (begging indulgence from the ListMoms).
Gilbert Kaplan was a NYC investment banker who made his millions publishing an investment newsletter. At some time in his extraordinarily successful career, one of his associates suggested that the two of them do a brown bag lunch at an open rehearsal of a prominent NYC classical orchestra, which happened to be prepping for a performance of the Mahler 2nd symphony, at that time not SO renowned as it is now as sitting at the very PINNACLE of gargantuan classical compositions. Kaplan enjoyed listening to classical music, but he was by no means a musician. At lunch, he was transfixed, WAY beyond losing interest in his sandwich. He COULD read music, and he became obsessed with the Mahler 2. With his unlimited resources, that eventually extended to acquiring Mahler’s original HAND WRITTEN score.
I’m vague on some of the details, such as the timeline, but at some point he contacted the managers of the orchestra and told them he was planning a private party for associates and clients, for which he wanted to rent the venue AND the orchestra for a private performance of the Mahler 2nd Symphony. This is a piece that most medium sized city orchestras could never DREAM of performing because it is SO expensive to perform, just on the basis of the salaries required to pay the performers. The orchestra manager at first said a polite “no,” but then Kaplan revealed the size of his wallet, and the manager changed his mind.
But, Kaplan was not done. “There’s one more thing,” he added. “I want to conduct.”
A sizable number of the musicians in the orchestra ABSOLUTELY refused to perform under Kaplan’s baton, because by then some word had leaked out, and Kaplan had admitted to some that the Mahler 2nd Symphony was the ONLY piece he “knew” how to conduct, even if the other choice was a simple nursery rhyme. (Just in case someone doesn’t grasp this, that’s equivalent to saying you can drive an F! racecar at Lewis Hamilton’s pace on a famous British racetrack, but you don’t know how to pedal a tricycle to your next door neighbor’s house). Needless to say, it happened.
Eventually, that led to commercially published recorded performances with famous orchestras on famous record labels (for example, Deutsche Grammophon with the London Symphony, and others).
My apex experience with the piece is far more humble, but just as important to me. When I lived in the SF Bay area, the conductor of the world class San Francisco Symphony was Michael Tilson Thomas (at one time a protege of Leonard Bernstein, and, like Bernstein, widely regarded as one of the world’s premier interpreters of Mahler’s entire musical library.? Once I fell in love with the Mahler 2, I NEVER missed a performance of the Mahler 2 conducted by him if it was possible to get there. The one I’ll remember best was when my son was 7 years old. His mom had refused to come with me (round trip from San Jose being 100 miles), so I took my son. The piece lasts 90 minutes, with no intermissions. just beyond the halfway point, my son tugged at my sleeve and whispered “Dad, how much longer?” Crestfallen and expecting him to add “I have to pee,” or “this is boring” I whispered back “why, Josh? Do we have to leave?” “NO,” he responded, “I don’t want it to end!”
30 years later, I still don’t know whether that was really sincere or whether, even at age 7, he already knew how to “play” his dad. ________________ ?I used to compare notes on MTT with an accomplished symphony player and frequent poster to this list, now sadly gone from us (Jackie Kovach—she often posted as “iMom”). To her, Tilson Thomas was “like Bernstein, but WAY over the top."
--?
Jim Robertson
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There are a number of apps for creating podcasts that let you manage the routing and audio and video from multiple app, and record the overall result. Googling podcast apps will show these. ? A simple capture can be done with Quicktime screen recordings. ?Out of the box, that will do the video but not the audio, but using a virtual audio driver like BlackHole will let you capture the audio output and make it available for recording. ?The minor downside is you won’t be able to hear the audio while the recording is in progress.
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As for the legality, the last time I saw this come up (in Canada) was when people routinely set up a VCR to record TV. ?The ruling was that it’s OK to record copyrighted material for personal use, but there was some ambiguity about how long you can keep it. ?I bet Randy knows the answer for the US. ?
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Jim Robertson wrote: MacTracker says that Apple didn’t discontinue the USB DVD SuperDrive until August of 2024 and that it could read AND WRITE multiple formats. The USB connection was USB 2.0 with a USB-A connector.
A quick search in my office doesn’t discover mine, but I do have another place to look in my garage. I can’t figure out when I bought it, but it was probably before the 2017 Tubbs Fire in Sonoma County destroyed pretty much everything I owned, and my records SINCE then are fairly good, so I suspect I don’t have it any more.
Other World Computing () has several offers:
<>
--? Jim Saklad jimdoc@...
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There used to be issues with copying DVDs that were copyright or DCMA protected.?
In 2012, I had a problem with an MS 2011 Office installer disc. I had long suspected that my player was slightly out of alignment. I bought and tried a Super Drive on my 2008 MBP. The MBP was not on the “approved” list. Turns out there was a hack for to remove the requirement Apple had put in the drive.?
I was on a 90-day remote work assignment, so I returned the Super Drive and bought a much cheaper LG brand drive. The LG works great without the hack. I believe the hack was 32-bit.?
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On Feb 5, 2025, at 07:44, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
? There are a number of apps for creating podcasts that let you manage the routing and audio and video from multiple app, and record the overall result. Googling podcast apps will show these. ? A simple capture can be done with Quicktime screen recordings. ?Out of the box, that will do the video but not the audio, but using a virtual audio driver like BlackHole will let you capture the audio output and make it available for recording. ?The minor downside is you won’t be able to hear the audio while the recording is in progress.
?
As for the legality, the last time I saw this come up (in Canada) was when people routinely set up a VCR to record TV. ?The ruling was that it’s OK to record copyrighted material for personal use, but there was some ambiguity about how long you can keep it. ?I bet Randy knows the answer for the US. ?
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On Feb 5, 2025, at 3:03?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
I *think* an Apple Superdrive can read any DVD format so you should be able to rip it using Handbrake into any format that will play on your TV. I assume the TV can play files over your network, or from USB?
I just discovered Bernstein’s performance in Ely Cathedral on YouTube, but it’s interrupted every 10 minutes or so by advertising. Some equate being at a live performance almost like talking directly to God (or at least listening), but these interruptions make it more like ascending to Paradise but then having to put silver dollars in a Parking meter at those intervals.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Paul
Jim Saklad
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