On Oct 25, 2019, at 11:21 AM, Dave Kelly via Groups.Io < drkelly@...> wrote:
This topic has been hashed over and over for the past couple of weeks. I'm sorry my answer of "No" was so curt.
I am fully sympathetic to the idea that investing time and effort into collecting fees may not be worth it. And I understand that moderation is hard and time consuming. Thank ?you.
To everyone else: If you spend time here, take a moment to note who the moderators are (it¡¯s on the home page) and keep this in mind when you see the message comes from them. My son was once a professional moderator. He actually got paid to moderate and these were forums that he loved, but only a sense of duty kept him doing it.?
Some tips for following lists that will make your time (and the moderators) easier:
Set a filter for list mail that automatically moves every piece into it¡¯s own folder. Set this list mail folder to view by thread.
For Apple Mail, go to Mail>Preferences>Rules and add a new rule. I recommend: If Subject contains "[macsupportcentral]¡± AND To contains ¡° [email protected]¡± then ¡°Move Message¡± and then ¡°Stop Evaluating Rules¡±
Cheers, ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? tod
Cheers,
?It's been asked and answered a few times. Anyway, if you would like to be a moderator and point out every time someone doesn't add a quote in their reply we could add you as one of our moderators. If you're interested, email [email protected] and make that a request.
Dave
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
Howdy. Janet. Here is info on routine maintenance procedures for your Macintosh. 1. Safe Disk Boot. Restart your Mac and at the Chime press the Shift key. Keep it pressed while the Mac boots up. It will take longer to boot because it's doing maintenance things. When the Log in with your home user account password box appears let up on the Shift key, type your password, and it will finish booting. Safe Disk Boot shuts off a number of things that load automatically (like using the Internet), it deletes some cache files, it does a disk check. After doing a Safe Disk Boot, restart your Mac in the usual way. 2. Recovery Partition boot. Restart and press Command r. Your Mac should boot into an invisible partition that has a basic system folder and Disk Utility and other things. You can use First Aid on your normal boot drive to check and repair it. After finished you quit Disk Utility, restart (picking your normal boot drive). 3. OnyX by Titanium Software. <> OnyX is a great utility for doing a variety of maintenance things for your Mac. It's important to download the correct version of OnyX for your OS X version. OnyX can delete even more cache files than Safe Disk Boot. For learning about some of the steps, OnyX has a question mark in each panel that provides a brief explanation of that it does. Denver Dan On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 07:48:37 -0500, Janet Brunner via Groups.Io wrote: Thanks for the suggestions Dan, I appreciate it¡.but¡.I don¡¯t know
how to do a Safe Disk Boot, and not quite sure how to delete cache
files. Would you be so kind as to guide me through these so I can
give it a try?
Thanks so much,
Janet
On Oct 26, 2019, at 7:44 AM, Otto Nikolaus via Groups.Io
<otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
I shut down my MacBook Pro with the key combo
Control-Option-Command-Eject
Does that work with an iMac (if you don't have an Eject key, use the
Power button instead)?
Otto
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 10:26, Janet Brunner via Groups.Io
<janetsbrunner@...> wrote:
Hello All,
I have found one ¡°issue¡± since upgrading to Catalina and it¡¯s
starting to drive me crazy.
I shut down my Mac each night before bed. I follow the usual
sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and
shut down again. About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to
Restart instead of shut down¡.and I have been extremely careful to
choose shut down each time.
It¡¯s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut
it down again. It has always shut down on the second try when this
happens.
<Screen Shot 2019-10-26 at 4.18.07 AM.png>
Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this? I would love
to find a fix. [|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 14:53, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson= [email protected]> wrote: That¡¯s not been my habit, and I didn¡¯t realize it orchestrated an organized exit with appropriate reminders, and when I tried it on my Touch Bar equipped MacBook Pro, I discovered that the whole combo does not work with the combination Touch ID sensor/power button on current generation laptops (verified at Apple Support).
<> still gives that combo, so something's not right.
Otto
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
I shut down my MacBook Pro with the key combo?Control-Option-Command-Eject
Does that work with an iMac (if you don't have?an Eject key, use the Power button instead)?
That¡¯s not been my habit, and I didn¡¯t realize it orchestrated an organized exit with appropriate reminders, and when I tried it on my Touch Bar equipped MacBook Pro, I discovered that the whole combo does not work with the combination Touch ID sensor/power button on current generation laptops (verified at Apple Support).
Jim Robertson
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On Oct 26, 2019, at 6:34 AM, ihor43us via Groups.Io < ihor43us@...> wrote:
There is the possibility that parts for octogenarian computers are in short supply so the question is will fans/controllers from younger Macs fit? I would think that those parts would be common over many generations.
Possibly so for your ¡°Cheese Grater¡± Mac Pro, but not so for the iMac. Peeking at MacTracker, I was astounded to see that the current shape of the iMac has endured for about 15 years. I¡¯d wager that there have been many minor and some major changes in the precise shape and location of its innards over the years as Jony Ives¡¯s minions have waged their battle to keep it svelte on the outside but buffed on the inside (sorry for the technical terms). However, Mac sites such as iFixit and Other World Computing maintain well categorized inventories of Apple parts long after Apple stops selling them. If two iMacs and one Cheese Grater Mac Pro are overheating in your environment, I would worry a LOT about your wiring unless your house is also filled with cats and dogs or other hair-shedding mammals.
Jim Robertson
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
Thanks for the suggestions Dan, I appreciate it¡.but¡.I don¡¯t know how to do a Safe Disk Boot, and not quite sure how to delete cache files. ?Would you be so kind as to guide me through these so I can give it a try?Thanks so much,Janet
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I shut down my MacBook Pro with the key combo? Control-Option-Command-Eject
Does that work with an iMac (if you don't have?an Eject key, use the Power button instead)?
Otto On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 10:26, Janet Brunner via Groups.Io <janetsbrunner= [email protected]> wrote: Hello All, I have found one ¡°issue¡± since upgrading to Catalina and it¡¯s starting to drive me crazy. I shut down my Mac each night before bed.? I follow the usual sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and shut down again.? About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to Restart instead of shut down¡.and I have been extremely careful to choose shut down each time. ? It¡¯s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut it down again.? It has always shut down on the second try when this happens. <Screen Shot 2019-10-26 at 4.18.07 AM.png> Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this?? I would love to find a fix.
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
I shut down my MacBook Pro with the key combo? Control-Option-Command-Eject
Does that work with an iMac (if you don't have?an Eject key, use the Power button instead)?
Otto
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 10:26, Janet Brunner via Groups.Io <janetsbrunner= [email protected]> wrote: Hello All, I have found one ¡°issue¡± since upgrading to Catalina and it¡¯s starting to drive me crazy. I shut down my Mac each night before bed.? I follow the usual sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and shut down again.? About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to Restart instead of shut down¡.and I have been extremely careful to choose shut down each time. ? It¡¯s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut it down again.? It has always shut down on the second try when this happens. Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this?? I would love to find a fix.
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Re: Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
Howdy. Interesting. Janet I think I've experienced this same problem since changing to macOS X 10.15 Catalina. Only at first with the 10.15.0 upgrade. You might try some maintenance steps like a Safe Disk Boot and deleting cache files. Then boot into Recovery and do a First Aid run on your boot drive. Please pass on if this helps. Denver Dan On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 04:26:46 -0500, Janet Brunner via Groups.Io wrote: I have found one ¡°issue¡± since upgrading to Catalina and it¡¯s
starting to drive me crazy.
I shut down my Mac each night before bed. I follow the usual
sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and shut
down again. About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to Restart
instead of shut down¡.and I have been extremely careful to choose
shut down each time.
It¡¯s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut it
down again. It has always shut down on the second try when this
happens.
Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this? I would love to
find a fix.
Thanks for any feedback.
Janet
_._,_._,_ [|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Many thanks to the responses and suggestions. I apologize for not getting the name straight. It is a Mac Pro from 2008. I clean the dust regularly - you don't realize how dusty the house is until you open the case.
I also have a 21"? iMac bought at the same time which also exhibits that behavior and is also cleaned regularly. Actually bought 3 and two are over heating. My daughter does not use hers much.
The systems are on UPS with surge protection so I think that narrows it down to heat/fans. These fans are speed controlled I believe so the issue could be the fan or the controller. ? Is there anyone here that has replaced either? The sources on Google are non-specific and I do not want to put a non-Mac part in them so I was looking for a link to an inexpensive Mac parts store.?
There is the possibility that parts for octogenarian computers are in short supply so the question is will fans/controllers from younger Macs fit? I would think that those parts would be common over many generations.
Thanks again for all the answers and apologies for not responding sooner. A site I look after got hacked and I have been up to my hairline in php code delivering eviction notices .......
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Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
Hello All, I have found one ¡°issue¡± since upgrading to Catalina and it¡¯s starting to drive me crazy. I shut down my Mac each night before bed. ?I follow the usual sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and shut down again. ?About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to Restart instead of shut down¡.and I have been extremely careful to choose shut down each time. ? It¡¯s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut it down again. ?It has always shut down on the second try when this happens. Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this? ?I would love to find a fix. Thanks for any feedback. Janet
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Great info, Dan.
It reminds me of one I solved remotely. It was very rare, and not likely to apply to others.
The user lived in Thailand, and his Mac would restart intermittently. He had checked the 3 items Randy listed. He didn't seem to have the power noise we are discussing. He finally disclosed that his outlets did not have a ground, typical in his location. He was using a 3 to 2 adapter. I suggested that he try a temporary ground wire. Not easy in a concrete building. He resisted, but finally tried it. When he did the problem went away. He then had a permanent grounded outlet put in, professionally.
Sent from my iPad,
Brent
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Daniel Settles <denver1.dan1@...> wrote:
Howdy.
I'll add to this.
I used to visit a private girls school near Middleburg, Virginia, to
deal with several Macs. The human buildings were very old with old
electricity and no central A/C. The horse barns for the rich girls'
own horses were nicer than the dorms or office buildings
They moved a graphics design office to a different room then installed
a large 110 volt AC window unit on the same circuit as the Mac,
printer, scanner, etc., and every time the AC's compressor kicked on
the Mac shut down.
It took putting in a separate electrical circuit for the AC to solve
the problem.
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Randy B. Singer wrote: I DO wholeheartedly agree that everyone should have a UPS.??If you experience one nasty brownout with a huge following surge in?power, it will have paid for itself. ?I also note that folks who have USP's?have Macs that tend to be remarkably trouble-free and long-lived.
I¡¯ve only gotten CyberPower devices for my full-sized UPS needs for years: - There¡¯s one where the FiOS cable comes into the house, and the router and other electronics live.
- There¡¯s one at the TV, supporting the set-top box, the Blu-Ray player, the Apple TV, and a couple of other low-requirement digital devices.
- There¡¯s one supporting my wife¡¯s full-size Linux box and accessories.
- I have a much smaller unit for my laptop and accessories.
- And I pay a monthly rent to the power company to have a whole-house surge protector at the power meter, which comes with a $10,000 insurance policy.
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Howdy.
One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer
into a UPS battery box. ?
A. ?It's not necessary. ?One can print when power comes back on.
B. ?The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save
files and shut down computer when the power goes off.
Yes, just computers and external drives that can be damaged if writing to them just when power goes off. If any other peripherals lose power then so what?? Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:36:59 -0400, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote:
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a
reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer
I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would
lose power.
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Howdy. I'll add to this. I used to visit a private girls school near Middleburg, Virginia, to deal with several Macs. The human buildings were very old with old electricity and no central A/C. The horse barns for the rich girls' own horses were nicer than the dorms or office buildings They moved a graphics design office to a different room then installed a large 110 volt AC window unit on the same circuit as the Mac, printer, scanner, etc., and every time the AC's compressor kicked on the Mac shut down. It took putting in a separate electrical circuit for the AC to solve the problem. I have several 110 volt 20 amp isolated group circuits for my computer equipment. The standard in the USA is a 110 volt 15 amp circuit. My Mac Pro (late 2013, 16 GB RAM, 512 MB SSD, two video cards), with no monitor connected and all externals disconnected, running a heavy load test, draws about 340 watts. Yes, the more RAM you have the more power the computer requires. To figure out watt demand you multiple amps times volts. 20 AMPS x 120 volts = 2,400 watts. 15 AMPS x 120 volts = 1,800 watts. A good recommendation is to load the circuit to about 80% of the maximum. (Most European countries use 220 volt power. In the US, most houses have both 110 and 220 volt with the 220 volt being used for heavy consumption devices like electric clothes dryers, electric ranges, furnaces, but circuits for lights, lamps, standard wall outlets, using 110 volts.) And yes, I have several UPS battery boxes. Northern Virginia is one of the more heavily forested urban areas and we see the tail end of hurricanes, electrical storms, and a LOT of new construction in this area. A typical Brother laser print could draw up to 500 watts when printing and maybe 50 watts in standby mode. Devices with electric motors and heating equipment draw a lot of power. Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:22:36 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote: Here is a personal experience. A law office was having a problem
with their Macs shutting off unexpectedly, usually all at the same
time. After some sleuthing, I found that the problem was that they
had a refrigerator on the floor in the break room that, when it
cycled on, it caused such a sag in power in the office that their
Macs just shut off. (Sometimes a large laser printer will cause the
same thing to happen when you turn it on.) I purchased APC UPS's for
each Mac, and I was shocked to find that the problem persisted. Then
I noticed that the APC UPS's didn't include AVR. I returned them all
and substituted another brand of UPS that was less expensive, but
which included AVR. Problem solved. [|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: 1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would lose power.
Here is a personal experience. A law office was having a problem with their Macs shutting off unexpectedly, usually all at the same time. After some sleuthing, I found that the problem was that they had a refrigerator on the floor in the break room that, when it cycled on, it caused such a sag in power in the office that their Macs just shut off. (Sometimes a large laser printer will cause the same thing to happen when you turn it on.) I purchased APC UPS's for each Mac, and I was shocked to find that the problem persisted. Then I noticed that the APC UPS's didn't include AVR. I returned them all and substituted another brand of UPS that was less expensive, but which included AVR. Problem solved. My point is that an approx. $70 UPS may be just about worthless. You have to purchase a good one that includes AVR. In my experience such UPS's usually cost over $100. Some UPS's costing over $100 don't include AVR, notably several APS brand UPS's, which is a brand that I don't recommend. I usually recommend CyberPower UPS's: CyberPower 1000AVR ($110) <> or CyberPower model selection tool: However, I DO wholeheartedly agree that everyone should have a UPS. If you experience one nasty brownout with a huge following surge in power, it will have paid for itself. I also note that folks who have USP's have Macs that tend to be remarkably trouble-free and long-lived. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance ___________________________________________
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Also, it should have some surge protection, and good ones even condition the power. Randy Singer has written about that many times.
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Daniel Settles wrote: Howdy.
One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer
into a UPS battery box.
A. It's not necessary. One can print when power comes back on.
B. The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save
files and shut down computer when the power goes off.
Denver Dan
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Oh, I have used MacTracker for 20 years, and I have even donated to him twice.
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:32 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: 10.5 is Leopard. Lion is 10.7. Snow Leopard is in between. I recommend a great program, available in the App Store, called MacTracker, which is a data base of just about everything Apple has built. The last PowerPC iMac it shows is the G5 from October 05 to March 06. As you say, the latest it can take is 10.5.8.
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Howdy. One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer into a UPS battery box. A. It's not necessary. One can print when power comes back on. B. The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save files and shut down computer when the power goes off. Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:36:59 -0400, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote:
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a
reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer
I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would
lose power.
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Barry, I don't mind be corrected, if done with a little courtesy. I did mislabel 10.5 as Lion, and not Leopard. But your reply was not well received.
I hate the names Apple uses for the Mac OS. The numbers are much easier to keep straight and even give informations beyond the general OS.
I had suggested that the OP might learn the correct description of his Mac. ?I see nothing to suggest even the form factor, or whether or not it is a desktop or laptop. Someone else assumed he had a 2008 Power Mac. Again, my mistake, I attributed the comment to the OP. A post after the one I am replying to guesses that it is a Mac Pro, but again the OP has not told us which form factor.
Why do you think it is a iMac, Barry?That it difficult to open a iMac, at the moment, has little or nothing to do with the issue, until we find out the form factor. I relayed my experiences with my MBP, early 2008, for the fan replacement issue.
But back to the OP's problem. I assume by reset means that it stops and restarts as the subject line suggests. The model or OS does not really matter. As several have suggested, their is a hardware issue relating to the power supply. Cleaning the dust out will only solve the symptoms, not the issue. The same with replacing a fan, unless the fan is also failing.
It would be nice if the OP,??ihor43us, would add some information to this thread. The thread has 14 posts in 24 hours and not a peep out of him.
Brent
15" MacBook Pro, early 2008, Mac OS X 10.7.5 Power Mac G4 Quicksilver 2002,?OS X 10.5.8 Mac mini G4 original,?OS X 10.5.8 iPad, 3RD Gen Wi-Fi, iOS 9.3.5 iPhone 4S, iOS 9.3.6 iPhone 3GS, iOS 6.1.6 iPod nano 6th Gen, Software Version 1.2, formatted for Windows, warranty replacement for original Nano iPod Classic, 80 GB,?Software Version 1.1.2
On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:32 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: On Oct 25, 2019, at 12:02 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
First figure out which model you have, as a PowerMac won't run any thing past 10.5.8, Lion. My MacBook Pro, early 2008, will run up to El Capitan.?
10.5 is Leopard. Lion is 10.7. Snow Leopard is in between. I recommend a great program, available in the App Store, called MacTracker, which is a data base of just about everything Apple has built. ?The last PowerPC iMac it shows is the G5 from October 05 to March 06. As you say, the latest it can take is 10.5.8.? Open it up and blow out the dust bunnies. Then if it is still noise, do a web search for new fans. I used iFixIt for a how to video, and purchased the fan i needed. Btw, the right and left fan on my MBP are different.
Unlike the earlier beige G5 machines, those with ADB keyboards and mice, and floppy drives, iMacs are a pain to take apart. How much is it worth it to do too much on a 14 or more year old machine?? On Oct 24, 2019, at 3:17 PM, ihor43us via Groups.Io < ihor43us@...> wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However, I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan but I am open to suggestions.
The question is : does anyone know where I can purchase replacement fans for this old but virile computer? I really do not want to part with it. Call me silly, but it has been through a lot with me and I do not want to just discard it when it can still perform.
BTW, I am on El Capitain since that is the last OS version that I can download.
Thanks
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To add a little to this, printers, particularly laser printers, create a sudden power surge.
I have a 1? year old small Brother laser all-in-one. Looked up its specs. I cn draw 1000 watts when heating the fuser element.
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todhop
Janet Brunner
Brent
Jim Saklad