Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 10:27?AM, JAMES ROBERTSON <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
That got me to wondering whether I could use a refurbed or used M1 iMac with Luna Display to recreate a large-screen environment, as well as one capable of functioning as a modern macOS computer, and for THAT I guess I’ll need to learn more about Luna Display.
And, one of the first things that comes to mind is that if I’m using my current iMac’s display with Luna Display and my laptop closed in “clamshell closed” mode with Luna Display but the CPU being the laptop, whether I’ll be able to use the iMac’s mouse and keyboard and an extended desktop that includes the external display that’s connected to my iMac (I have NO idea what kind of cable I now have connecting the iMac to the external display, and shudder to think about the viper’s nest of cables that’s coiled impossibly behind my desk. ` Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
Since some of these keyboards being discussed are third party, and some designed for Windows…
Also, on one of the Apple lists, I recently posted a whine about the special characters on Apple physical and on-screen keyboards not being consistent in locations. Since we are now worrying about an Alt key, that is not used in Apple or for-Apple apps, that is like arguing about the color of unicorn blood. ?
There is no universal standard for ?keyboards.?
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On Nov 12, 2024, at 06:49, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
? On Nov 11, 2024, at 5:33?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
So I wondered whether any keyboard shortcuts lists mentioned anything about alt.
* My search found the following 2007 document, which doesn’t mention alt.
* After feeling a bit lost at sea when switching from MS Windows when I got my first Mac, I purchased O’Reilly’s “Mac OS X: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?They had a free download from an appendix in that book, “The Master Mac OS X Secret Keystroke List: Appendix E - Mac OSX: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?That appendix has no reference to alt. ?With that said, I dug around this morning and I was able to download a sample of that book from Apple Books. ?It says the following about that key, “The Option key (labeled Alt on keyboards in some countries) is sort of a "miscellaneous" key.” (The bolding was added by me.)
* In 2009, macmost.com had a similar shortcut list, “Snow Leopard Power User Keyboard Shortcuts”. ?It also doesn’t mention alt.
* The next keyboard shortcut list that I found was from a MacRumors 2011 guide. ?It too didn’t refer to the key as alt.
* Every other list that I have is much more recent. ?Apple’s current keyboard shortcut article mentions, “Option (or Alt) ?”, but it also mentions “Control (or Ctrl) ?”. ?It then goes on to say, “On keyboards made for Windows PCs, use the Alt key instead of Option, and the Ctrl key or Windows logo key instead of Command.”
In macOS Sonoma, there is no mention of alt in: Apple > Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts? I don’t remember whether that was the case for preferences in earlier OS versions.
So all of this has left me wondering what keyboard shortcut lists look like in countries that had the option key labeled as alt. ?Also, did their System Preferences show alt or option in their keyboard shortcuts?
-- Bev in TX
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 9:27 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
The above link is describes a project that is at once much more AND much less than what I did. It involves exenterating almost the entire contents of a 2014 (logic board, power supply, speakers, etc.) 5K iMac, to create pretty much the screen equivalent of a Mac Studio display… Of all the people who have contacted me and asked how to use their iMac as a monitor for another Mac, I don’t think that anyone found it worthwhile to attempt. However you accomplish it, it will be a kludge. And it might not work well, or at all. For about $250 my son went out and got a 43-inch 4K Samsung television. It mates up with his Macintosh perfectly, and it not only gives him a huge amount of working area, but it allows him to watch movies that he downloads that look breathtaking. Also, it’s a fully functioning television, complete with stereo speakers built-in. More impressive? My wife wanted to mate her new MacBook Pro with an external monitor for while at home. My son picked out a very favorably reviewed Hisense 43-inch television, that was even cheaper than his Samsung television, (Hisense monitors are usually cheap POS’s, but apparently they make some good stuff too) and she uses it as a monitor, and it too looks amazing. My wife is thrilled with it. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
On Nov 12, 2024, at 7:49?AM, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
Just to add to the confusion:
As far back as when there was only a little box displaying a smily face center-screen (monochrome, B/W) ?after one depressed the power button and produced the library-upsetting loud “bong” sound, my son (a grammar school student at the time), discovered that he could flummox his dad by setting the Keyboard to some other latinesque language character set).
He’s still at it. When my sister and I were attempting to stay on course and even on the pavement in the huge SUV in which we attempted to navigate the tiny paved sheeps’ paths the Scots call “roads” in summer 2023, the same son sitting in the back seat would delight in pairing his iPhone to the rented car’s infotainment system and changing the language to French or German in hopes of derailing our search for the next castle or distillery.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 11, 2024, at 10:57?PM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Only a very few models of iMac can be used as an external monitor.
For all of the rest, you can use Luna Display to do the job.
Randy, Thanks SO much for your response and the links it contains.
THIS link:
contained the most information, but almost terrified me, because I’ve “been there, done [almost] that once before on my 2017 21.5” iMac (disabling the internal “Fusion Drive” by replacing the tiny–in physical size AND RAM capacity–Processor Direct card, replacing it with a 1 TB NVMe.2 card, populating IT with my previous environment from a fresh Time Machine backup, and repurposing the internal rotating platter 1 TB drive as new repository for those Time Machine backups. In the course of doing so, I almost killed the usefulness of the machine by bending one of the 2 tiny wires in the BT cable socketon the periphery of the iMac’s case (I was able to bend it back with a tiny jeweler’s screwdriver, and the iMac still runs macOS 10.15.7 acceptably, but of course cannot do any of the things freshly announced this year that require an Apple Silicon processor.
The above link is describes a project that is at once much more AND much less than what I did. It involves exenterating almost the entire contents of a 2014 (logic board, power supply, speakers, etc.) 5K iMac, to create pretty much the screen equivalent of a Mac Studio display, but with no speakers, a replacement web cam, etc., so that the iMac no longer functions as a computer. Literally HUNDREDS of comments to that video celebrate it as a great way to save money yet have a gorgeous 5K display panel. It wasn’t clear to me whether all that component removal left the remnants of the iMac still capable as receiving input from BT devices such as a wireless keyboard and pointing device; I expect not.
The troubling element of the discussion is that those comments include some that pronounce “Luna Display didn’t work” as the reason the commenters advanced to that project themselves.
I almost never use my iMac any more, and I suspect that once I begin using Apple Intelligence features I’ll not use it at ALL. That got me to wondering whether I could use a refurbed or used M1 iMac with Luna Display to recreate a large-screen environment, as well as one capable of functioning as a modern macOS computer, and for THAT I guess I’ll need to learn more about Luna Display.
So, I’d be grateful for comments from others who’ve discovered and used Luna Display…
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Nov 12, 2024, at 8:19 AM, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
Interesting lead for a keyboard when I get the M4 Mini.
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 09:52 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office. I *used* to love Matias keyboards. But they discontinued both of their models that I liked. Now they only offer ridiculously over-priced models, and it’s likely that I’ll never consider a Matias keyboard again. Keyboards are a really personal thing. But here are some deals going on right now to check out: Anker Ultra Compact Slim Profile Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard $21 Seenda Full-Size Bluetooth Keyboard for Mac OS, Multi-Device Slim Rechargeable Wireless Keyboard with Numeric Keypad $20 (This keyboard using a dongle to connect. I find this more reliable than Bluetooth, but it takes up a USB port.) Personally I like an old fashioned type keyboard with mechanical keys (good for touch-typing). This one is an amazing steal!: MageGee Compact 60% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard - LED Backlit, 68 Mini Keys, Blue Switch, Wired, Portable Design $23 __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
Interesting lead for a keyboard when I get the M4 Mini. ?
?
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 09:52 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office.
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 08:49 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
On Nov 10, 2024, at 7:39 AM, Bayswater via <Bayswater@...> wrote:
On a Mac, Alt-Delete usually does that.
Randy looks all over his Apple keyboard for the “Alt” key….and fails to find it.
I suspect that you mean the “Option” key.
No, I meant the Alt key. ?When I saw your reply, I was curious and looked at 5 Apple keyboards I have handy. ?All but one have both Alt and Option on the key in question. ?The one that doesn’t is a new M2 Air.?
Do you know when you got those, and where are you?
Otto
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
On Nov 11, 2024, at 5:33?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
So I wondered whether any keyboard shortcuts lists mentioned anything about alt.
* My search found the following 2007 document, which doesn’t mention alt.
* After feeling a bit lost at sea when switching from MS Windows when I got my first Mac, I purchased O’Reilly’s “Mac OS X: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?They had a free download from an appendix in that book, “The Master Mac OS X Secret Keystroke List: Appendix E - Mac OSX: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?That appendix has no reference to alt. ?With that said, I dug around this morning and I was able to download a sample of that book from Apple Books. ?It says the following about that key, “The Option key (labeled Alt on keyboards in some countries) is sort of a "miscellaneous" key.” (The bolding was added by me.)
* In 2009, macmost.com had a similar shortcut list, “Snow Leopard Power User Keyboard Shortcuts”. ?It also doesn’t mention alt.
* The next keyboard shortcut list that I found was from a MacRumors 2011 guide. ?It too didn’t refer to the key as alt.
* Every other list that I have is much more recent. ?Apple’s current keyboard shortcut article mentions, “Option (or Alt) ?”, but it also mentions “Control (or Ctrl) ?”. ?It then goes on to say, “On keyboards made for Windows PCs, use the Alt key instead of Option, and the Ctrl key or Windows logo key instead of Command.”
In macOS Sonoma, there is no mention of alt in: Apple > Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts? I don’t remember whether that was the case for preferences in earlier OS versions.
So all of this has left me wondering what keyboard shortcut lists look like in countries that had the option key labeled as alt. ?Also, did their System Preferences show alt or option in their keyboard shortcuts?
-- Bev in TX
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On 12 Nov 2024, at 05:52, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
On Nov 11, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Thanks. I don’t know how that could be misinterpreted. UK Apple keyboards are now labelled with ‘Option’ but I don’t know when it changed from ‘alt’ (our Macs are 2012 or older). To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office.
One has an Option and a Command key, but no “Alt” anywhere.
The other has an Option key that is also marked with a little microsoft window symbol and the text “Start.” On that same keyboard, the Command key also has the text “Alt.”
So, apparently Alt is not always equal to Option. I *think* it always has been on Macs, but it’s a different story with Windows. It looks like the 2nd kb you describe is multi-platform. Otto
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 11, 2024, at 4:06 PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I’m wondering if I can repurpose the iMac screen to be a monitor for the Mini. This comes up all the time. Only a very few models of iMac can be used as an external monitor. For all of the rest, you can use Luna Display to do the job. See: Use your iMac as a display with target display mode Use your iMac as an external monitor Want to use an iMac as an external monitor? You need an old version of macOS Using 27-inch iMac As Monitor Requires Very Specific Cable Luna Display ($80) allows you to use iMacs that otherwise can't be used as an external display as one See: __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Nov 11, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Thanks. I don’t know how that could be misinterpreted. UK Apple keyboards are now labelled with ‘Option’ but I don’t know when it changed from ‘alt’ (our Macs are 2012 or older). To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office. One has an Option and a Command key, but no “Alt” anywhere. The other has an Option key that is also marked with a little microsoft window symbol and the text “Start.” On that same keyboard, the Command key also has the text “Alt.” So, apparently Alt is not always equal to Option. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
I’ve managed to keep my Intel iMac running by giving it a memory transplant and exorcising its “Fusion Drive,” repurposing the internal rotating platter drive to house one of my Time Machine backups.
But now there are new, smaller footprint Mac Minis, and I’m wondering if I can repurpose the iMac screen to be a monitor for the Mini. I also have another monitor that has multiple inputs, and I currently use both with the iMac. However, the iMac itself, of course, cannot run the current macOS, so I’m hoping I could extend its life a bit just acting as a screen.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
Thanks. I don’t know how that could be misinterpreted. UK Apple keyboards are now labelled with ‘Option’ but I don’t know when it changed from ‘alt’ (our Macs are 2012 or older).
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On 11 Nov 2024, at 21:09, Christopher Collins via < maclist@...> wrote:
No, he’s saying that the default GB layout is different to the default US layout.
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
Lighten up.
I just switched between the keyboard viewer in US, British and British PC. The bottom left 4 keys do not change. Now the 3 Apple specific keys are represented in special characters, not words or abbreviations. On the British, the only change is along the upper case numbers. The British PC has additional changes to the left of the return key and the key above on the right edge. I do not have access to a physical keyboard from any other country. Without further study, the only character that is not available with more than the shift key, is ?, but ? and � are both available on the US keyboard with the use of the option/ alt key and the use of the shift key, so I don’t need a GB physical keyboard.
As you can see from my later post, I found the alt on the option key.
I prefer not to call myself pedantic, but possibly on the fringe of the autistic scale, because my attention is drawn by things that most overlook. Because I don’t get out much since becoming less abled, I have become socially starved, and participating on certain list is how I compensate. Although I have always been a stickler for clear, unambiguous, and succinct communication.?
Brent ?
On my Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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On Nov 11, 2024, at 1:09 PM, Christopher Collins via < maclist@...> wrote:
No, he’s saying that the default GB layout is different to the default US layout. cjc On 12 Nov 2024, at 7:57?am, Brent via <whodo678@...> wrote:
That is interesting to know.
Are you saying what I see as a black cat, is black and white on your side?
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
On Nov 11, 2024, at 03:33, Otto Nikolaus via <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
All my Apple and Kensington keyboards have both. Since I have been known to use both Mac OS and Windows, I had not paid attention. I just call the key option.
Brent ?
On my Mac mini running 10.15.7?
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On Nov 11, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Bayswater via < Bayswater@...> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 08:49 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
On Nov 10, 2024, at 7:39 AM, Bayswater via <Bayswater@...> wrote:
On a Mac, Alt-Delete usually does that.
Randy looks all over his Apple keyboard for the “Alt” key….and fails to find it.
I suspect that you mean the “Option” key.
No, I meant the Alt key. ?When I saw your reply, I was curious and looked at 5 Apple keyboards I have handy. ?All but one have both Alt and Option on the key in question. ?The one that doesn’t is a new M2 Air. ?
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
No, he’s saying that the default GB layout is different to the default US layout.
cjc
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On 12 Nov 2024, at 7:57?am, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
That is interesting to know.
Are you saying what I see as a black cat, is black and white on your side?
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
On Nov 11, 2024, at 03:33, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
That is interesting to know.
Are you saying what I see as a black cat, is black and white on your side?
Brent
On my iPhone Xr
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 11, 2024, at 03:33, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 08:49 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
On Nov 10, 2024, at 7:39 AM, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
On a Mac, Alt-Delete usually does that.
Randy looks all over his Apple keyboard for the “Alt” key….and fails to find it.
I suspect that you mean the “Option” key.
No, I meant the Alt key. ?When I saw your reply, I was curious and looked at 5 Apple keyboards I have handy. ?All but one have both Alt and Option on the key in question. ?The one that doesn’t is a new M2 Air. ?
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On 10 Nov 2024, at 16:49, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
On Nov 10, 2024, at 7:39 AM, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
On a Mac, Alt-Delete usually does that. Randy looks all over his Apple keyboard for the “Alt” key….and fails to find it.
I suspect that you mean the “Option” key. In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why. Otto
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Brent