On 4 Jan 2024, at 18:25, jimrobertson via <jimrobertson@...> wrote:

Just one more post about the correct way(s) to enter the “degree” (temperature, not academic certificate) symbol on various Apple devices. My iPad(s) are probably my least used but most abused Apple devices (witness the recent terrifying expedition one suffered through on the R front fender of my car at 80 mph).

We’ve settled on agreement that the correct way to enter the character on a Mac is by typing the key combo <option-shift-8> , and that on an iPhone, it’s press on the “zero” key and hold it, then slide to the left to select “degree” instead of “zero.”

But, I’ve discovered that the keyboard battlefield is muddied by attaching a “Magic” keyboard to my new iPad Pro 4th generation 11 incher.

One might expect behavior similar to that observed with an iPhone, given the similarities between the two operating systems, but pressing and holding the “zero” key just produces a single “zero” (and perhaps, eventually, a tired finger).

The “Magic” keyboard has an option key, and the keystroke combo that works on the Mac seems to do so on the iPad as well. However, the glyph produced by “option-zero” differs subtly from that produced by “option-shift-8” (both entered from the magic keypad. This is made obvious by using an app that permits changing the font size of individual characters and enlarging them both, say to 24-point size. And, if i remove the iPad from its attached keyboard, the resulting iPadOS virtual keyboard does not include an option key, and the only way I can find to enter what LOOKS like the degree symbol is to press and hold the virtual “zero” key. Put iPad back into its “Magic” physical keyboard case and the “zero” press-and-hold is gone (magically?)

In the Mac app store, I’ve found two apps from “XO4 Studios” named “Ultra Character Map” and “Font File Browser,” which cost the same and look the same. Each of them permits the user to enter from the keyboard or select from a document (I think) a glyph to identify what it’s supposed to be (its “name”; e.g., “upper case a” or “semicolon” will appear, but not the ASCII or quoted printable encoding. So, it ?might enable differentiating between those two subtly different glyphs, but I don’t yet know. I’ve written to the developer to see if it has any suggestions.

On Jan 3, 2024, at 3:45?PM, Tony Troiano <oraziofotografik@...> wrote:

?

Thank you for your reply and experienced troubleshooting advice.

The “source” computer running Sierra is a MacBook Pro (Retina 15-inch) Mid 2014, Intel. The destination computer running Ventura is iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019, also Intel. I believe this model was the last one produced that supported Mojave OS but went back no further.

You write that the *usual* way of using Migration Assistant was to run it exclusively from the destination end rather than the source? I started that way but I think the program instructed me to also run Migration Assistant from the source end as well. As both programs were running simultaneously the progress windows on each matched throughout the entire transfer, or should I say supposed transfer given that, as described in my initial post, nothing shows up on the iMac running Ventura. Is it possible to migrate using the program solely on the destination side?

If I needed to re-install Ventura on the iMac using Recovery Mode (which I will have to educate myself about in that I have never done that) will it enable me to retain the applications I have already installed on the internal drive? I recently installed the Infinity suite and applied specific settings to one of the programs.

Thank you again. Much appreciated.

—Tony Troiano—

========================

On Jan 3, 2024, at 1:59 PM, Jim Saklad via <jimdoc@...> wrote:

Without further information it is hard to be sure, but I suspect the iMac is too recent to run Sierra and the migration the way you performed it may have tried to install Sierra on it.

The *usual* way of using Migration Assistant is to start with a bootable computer and use the assistant ON THAT COMPUTER to transfer (data) files TO it FROM another.

I think you may have to re-install an operating system on the iMac, which likely means using Recovery Mode.

Then boot from that, and run Migration Assistant to extract files from your Sierra laptop.

How old is the iMac? Is it Intel-based or Apple Silicon (M1, M2…) (This determines how to get into Recovery Mode.)

Tony Troiano wrote:

Last night I tethered my Laptop running Sierra to an iMac running Ventura via ethernet and activating Migrant Assistant between the two commencing the night long transference of documents and all related files from the laptop to iMac.

This morning I received a prompt on the Sierra laptop end that the migration had completed but on the receiving end of the iMac running Ventura the screen was black except for a message that the computer was shut down improperly and to strike any key to reboot.

After the same message appeared again and again I forced the shut down, waited a few minutes and attempted to reboot again, receiving the same message.

The internal drive receiving the migration appears to be unbootable.

I was able to start the computer booting from an external drive I have which contains two partitions, one running Ventura and the other running Mojave, both boot successfully.

Using either as a startup I was able to view the contents of the internal drive.

Upon doing so I see no evidence of any documents having been transferred in from the migration.

The internal drive appears to be in the same state as it was before except now I cannot use it as a startup volume although it still appears in the startup list of bootable drives.

Now I’m concerned that I used Migration Assistant improperly and have corrupted the internal drive in the process. Did I need to perform the migration using Target Disc Mode to transfer documents, apps, and settings properly? I have no experience with booting from Target Disc Mode.

Also, I’ve read that the fastest way to migrate would be to go through Thunderbolt. But I cannot find Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) cables available from Apple and I think buying one from a third party might not be a good idea.

Apple sells a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter, but at $49 for a single use, I would probably stick to ethernet.

?

3M MacBook Pro 2023 OS 14.2.1 [Sonoma]

?

On Jan 3, 2024, at 6:45 PM, Tony Troiano via <oraziofotografik@...> wrote:

Thank you for your reply and experienced troubleshooting advice.

The “source” computer running Sierra is a MacBook Pro (Retina 15-inch) Mid 2014, Intel. The destination computer running Ventura is iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019, also Intel. I believe this model was the last one produced that supported Mojave OS but went back no further.

You write that the *usual* way of using Migration Assistant was to run it exclusively from the destination end rather than the source? I started that way but I think the program instructed me to also run Migration Assistant from the source end as well. As both programs were running simultaneously the progress windows on each matched throughout the entire transfer, or should I say supposed transfer given that, as described in my initial post, nothing shows up on the iMac running Ventura. Is it possible to migrate using the program solely on the destination side?

If I needed to re-install Ventura on the iMac using Recovery Mode (which I will have to educate myself about in that I have never done that) will it enable me to retain the applications I have already installed on the internal drive? I recently installed the Infinity suite and applied specific settings to one of the programs.

Thank you again. Much appreciated.

—Tony Troiano—

========================

On Jan 3, 2024, at 1:59 PM, Jim Saklad via <jimdoc@...> wrote:

Without further information it is hard to be sure, but I suspect the iMac is too recent to run Sierra and the migration the way you performed it may have tried to install Sierra on it.

The *usual* way of using Migration Assistant is to start with a bootable computer and use the assistant ON THAT COMPUTER to transfer (data) files TO it FROM another.

I think you may have to re-install an operating system on the iMac, which likely means using Recovery Mode.

Then boot from that, and run Migration Assistant to extract files from your Sierra laptop.

How old is the iMac? Is it Intel-based or Apple Silicon (M1, M2…) (This determines how to get into Recovery Mode.)

Tony Troiano wrote:

Last night I tethered my Laptop running Sierra to an iMac running Ventura via ethernet and activating Migrant Assistant between the two commencing the night long transference of documents and all related files from the laptop to iMac.

This morning I received a prompt on the Sierra laptop end that the migration had completed but on the receiving end of the iMac running Ventura the screen was black except for a message that the computer was shut down improperly and to strike any key to reboot.

After the same message appeared again and again I forced the shut down, waited a few minutes and attempted to reboot again, receiving the same message.

The internal drive receiving the migration appears to be unbootable.

I was able to start the computer booting from an external drive I have which contains two partitions, one running Ventura and the other running Mojave, both boot successfully.

Using either as a startup I was able to view the contents of the internal drive.

Upon doing so I see no evidence of any documents having been transferred in from the migration.

The internal drive appears to be in the same state as it was before except now I cannot use it as a startup volume although it still appears in the startup list of bootable drives.

Now I’m concerned that I used Migration Assistant improperly and have corrupted the internal drive in the process. Did I need to perform the migration using Target Disc Mode to transfer documents, apps, and settings properly? I have no experience with booting from Target Disc Mode.

Also, I’ve read that the fastest way to migrate would be to go through Thunderbolt. But I cannot find Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) cables available from Apple and I think buying one from a third party might not be a good idea.

Apple sells a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter, but at $49 for a single use, I would probably stick to ethernet.

On Jan 3, 2024, at 7:12 PM, DavidU <davidu02@...> wrote:

I replaced my wife and my 2012 MBPs running High Sierra with M3 MBPs running Sonoma. Migration assistant transferred everything properly except my calendar now has double entries. What is the procedure to fix that problem?

3M MacBook Pro 2023 OS 14.2.1 [Sonoma]

iPhone 8 64GB iOS 16.7.4 T-Mobile

iPad mini 2 16GB iOS 12.5.7

On Jan 3, 2024, at 1:59 PM, Jim Saklad via <jimdoc@...> wrote:

Without further information it is hard to be sure, but I suspect the iMac is too recent to run Sierra and the migration the way you performed it may have tried to install Sierra on it.

The *usual* way of using Migration Assistant is to start with a bootable computer and use the assistant ON THAT COMPUTER to transfer (data) files TO it FROM another.

I think you may have to re-install an operating system on the iMac, which likely means using Recovery Mode.

Then boot from that, and run Migration Assistant to extract files from your Sierra laptop.

How old is the iMac? Is it Intel-based or Apple Silicon (M1, M2…) (This determines how to get into Recovery Mode.)

Tony Troiano wrote:

Last night I tethered my Laptop running Sierra to an iMac running Ventura via ethernet and activating Migrant Assistant between the two commencing the night long transference of documents and all related files from the laptop to iMac.

This morning I received a prompt on the Sierra laptop end that the migration had completed but on the receiving end of the iMac running Ventura the screen was black except for a message that the computer was shut down improperly and to strike any key to reboot.

After the same message appeared again and again I forced the shut down, waited a few minutes and attempted to reboot again, receiving the same message.

The internal drive receiving the migration appears to be unbootable.

I was able to start the computer booting from an external drive I have which contains two partitions, one running Ventura and the other running Mojave, both boot successfully.

Using either as a startup I was able to view the contents of the internal drive.

Upon doing so I see no evidence of any documents having been transferred in from the migration.

The internal drive appears to be in the same state as it was before except now I cannot use it as a startup volume although it still appears in the startup list of bootable drives.

Now I’m concerned that I used Migration Assistant improperly and have corrupted the internal drive in the process. Did I need to perform the migration using Target Disc Mode to transfer documents, apps, and settings properly? I have no experience with booting from Target Disc Mode.

Also, I’ve read that the fastest way to migrate would be to go through Thunderbolt. But I cannot find Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) cables available from Apple and I think buying one from a third party might not be a good idea.

Apple sells a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter, but at $49 for a single use, I would probably stick to ethernet.

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Bob Stern via <bobbystern@...> wrote:

Does Time Machine backup both users information or only the one that is currently logged on?

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:25, DaveC via groups.io <davec2468@...> wrote:

And most gob-smacking to me (retired technical writer) is that the emergency procedures manual had instructions for flying the plane if either engine quit, but nothing—NOTHING—if both engines quit.

Dave

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:10, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:

?Sometimes “close enough” is not close enough, as you say, but why was the sling not 9’10”, almost exactly 3 metres?

Otto

On 3 Jan 2024, at 18:48, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:

Interesting to know, but not being a pilot or mechanic, I never ran into that before.

I used to be involved in lifting light, little things weighing only 40 metric tons.

I had to deal with length and mass. Since rigging comes from tall masted ships, I had to deal with the “US” ton, the metric tonne, and occasionally long and short tons. Thankfully, Imperial measurements didn’t come up.

Since the original rigging was in metric lengths, to prevent unstable lifts, we had custom slings made. So to match a 3 meter sling we had ones made that were 9 foot 9 inches. 10 foot slings are standard here, but could throw off a lift enough to be outside safety standards.

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:06 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:

?

On Jan 3, 2024, at 9:13?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:

I’m too impatient/lazy to read every character in that article. Please enlighten me.

I mentioned that tale because it’s a truly AMAZING example of what can happen when written or electronic communications are imprecise or misunderstood. You don’t need to read beyond the first several paragraphs to be amazed by what went wrong and what (entirely capriciously) went right. The Air Canada 767 that plummeted (OK, glided, but I’ll bet no one on board enjoyed that 15% glide slope) from 41,000 feet was brand new and “state of the art,” but because ONE electronic fuel measuring instrument malfunctioned, calculations that involved using a dipstick (hilariously misspelled in the article as “dripstick”) to measure the fuel on board, then confusion among US gallons, imperial gallons, and metric units recording volume, or column height of fuel in the tanks, or some bizarre combination thereof led to a horrendous overestimate of the amount of fuel on board. A number of fortuitous factors saved potentially hundreds of lives that day, including:

1. The Air Canada Captain was a highly skilled glider pilot, and used those skills to control an enormous airplane during the 17 minutes it “flew” with no engine power (or electronic instruments that required engine-generated electricity, or manually movable aircraft control surfaces).
2. The no-longer-registered military airfield the crew used to land the 767 was familiar to a member of the flight crew who had used that airfield when in the RCAF.
3. The amateur drag-racing event happening on the airfield as the jumbo jet plopped down onto what was now a “drag” racing event was staffed by weekend recreationists who had safety training to put out fires on garage-modified race cars, but they leveraged those skills to douse flames on a machine capable of transporting hundreds of passengers.?
4. Some of the “missing feature” failures caused by the engine flameouts actually enabled the plane to stop on the shortened runway. For example, there was no electrical or hydraulic power to lock the nose wheel into the down position, and a “gravity drop” didn’t do so, so the plane skidded to a stop more quickly than it would have had the nose wheel locked in place.

When I was younger and more reckless, I sometimes pretended I was a racecar driver at amateur events held on famous California racetracks. Being prepared to handle a jumbo jet plummeting out of the sky onto the “back straight” of the racetrack was something I never, ever considered.

But you’re right; it’s not necessary to read beyond the first few paragraphs to get the essence of the story.

_________________________

?Not really mentioned in the article is that one thing contributing to the absence of mass death was that there were only 67 passengers on the plane. If this happened today, the plane would have been at least 95% full, weighing many many tons more and would probably have not made it to the field.

--?
Jim Robertson

On 3 Jan 2024, at 18:48, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:

Interesting to know, but not being a pilot or mechanic, I never ran into that before.

I used to be involved in lifting light, little things weighing only 40 metric tons.

I had to deal with length and mass. Since rigging comes from tall masted ships, I had to deal with the “US” ton, the metric tonne, and occasionally long and short tons. Thankfully, Imperial measurements didn’t come up.

Since the original rigging was in metric lengths, to prevent unstable lifts, we had custom slings made. So to match a 3 meter sling we had ones made that were 9 foot 9 inches. 10 foot slings are standard here, but could throw off a lift enough to be outside safety standards.