Re: Upgrading a 2017 iMac's RAM and storage (was Re: [macsupportcentral] Question for SEE Finance users?)
#Upgrading
If any of you have done a rotating platter to SATA SSD upgrade, how?would you characterize the performance boost?
I've done that with a MacBook Pro. The improvement in speed is around?x6 (yes, times six) in both boot times and program loading. This is with a?Samsung 840 Pro. Of course, tasks that are CPU-bound don't speed up…?
Years ago I replaced a 320 or 500 GB HDD in a previous (maybe 2009) MBPro with a 500 GB SATA SSD from OWC.
Really impressive speedup, but I don’t remember the numbers. Probably like Otto’s results.
When I moved to my present MBPro (late 2013), I swapped those drives back, but left the SSD in the external case, because the newer laptop came with a 500 GB blade-type SSD.
I’m now thinking of upgrading this blade-SSD to either 1 or 2 TB, and putting the original equipment 500 GB one in an external case.
Sort of your operation, but on a laptop. Simpler.
|
Re: Upgrading a 2017 iMac's RAM and storage (was Re: [macsupportcentral] Question for SEE Finance users?)
#Upgrading
I may partition the SATA-SSD into either a native Windows boot version or install the deeply discounted version of Parallels that OWC sells there along with Mojave.
I’m assuming that if I install a SATA 2.5” form factor SSD where the rotating platter drive is now, the iMac will recognize it as bootable.
Are you getting an external drive case in the package, to put your existing HDD in?
Because you could put the new SATA SSD in there, connect it up, clone your fusion drive to it, test it by trying to boot from it, and only then undertake iMac surgery to switch the drives.
And you would be left with a terabyte HDD in an external box as well.
|
Sorry about telling you yes..Got a bit confused. I have tried googling to see how to add my Macintosh HD, but can’t find how to any where. This is a new machine, an I Mac. On my old Mac Pro, the internal drive sst was backed up along with one ?of my external drives, the one that is always on
Jeannie?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:31 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
Then I would remove it from the exclusions list.
Then click on the Time Machine icon on the top menu bar and select back up now…
Paul MacTech Services --? ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
Yes Jeannie? On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ? MacTech Services --? ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
Should have said no to that. The only thing excluded is the ?time machine external drive. My other external drives are not excluded , as they are only on when I send something to them
Jeannie?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ?
MacTech Services -- ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
Hi
Then I would remove it from the exclusions list.
Then click on the Time Machine icon on the top menu bar and select back up now…
Paul
MacTech Services -- ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes
Jeannie?
On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ?
MacTech Services -- ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ?
MacTech Services -- ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ?
MacTech Services -- ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
|
Re: Upgrading a 2017 iMac's RAM and storage (was Re: [macsupportcentral] Question for SEE Finance users?)
#Upgrading
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 19:18, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson= [email protected]> wrote: !st, apologies for not starting a brand new message thread. Some of the hardware issues were in the original topic discussion, so I’ve decided to (I hope) let the server software keep them linked.
Continuing various tests on launch times for SEE Finance related to last restart of my iMac, number of other applications open, etc., I’ve decided that, when I have time, I’m going to replace my Fusion Drive with a PCI-e express 1 TB SSD as my boot volume, possibly replace my 1 TB 5800 RPM internal drive with a SATA SSD, and boost the RAM to 32 GB. The SSD-SATA drive decision isn’t firm yet, with the greatest incentive being never to have to do this again.
I’m thinking this will extend the useful life of my iMac for many years, although I know I’ll miss 10 Gbit Ethernet, next gen WiFi, and possibly other advances.
OWC’s instructional videos are quite detailed, and also quite reassuring as regards my ability to do the work.
I may partition the SATA-SSD into either a native Windows boot version or install the deeply discounted version of Parallels that OWC sells there along with Mojave.
I’m assuming that if I install a SATA 2.5” form factor SSD where the rotating platter drive is now, the iMac will recognize it as bootable.
Have any list members done this surgery themselves? It looks tedious, but not dangerous (but then, I’ve never priced replacement iMac display modules from Apple).
If any of you have done a rotating platter to SATA SSD upgrade, how would you characterize the performance boost?
I've done that with a MacBook Pro. The improvement in speed is around x6 (yes, times six) in both boot times and program loading. This is with a Samsung 840 Pro. Of course, tasks that are CPU-bound don't speed up...
If you have a Fusion Drive, I'd expect a much reduced improvement. I suspect that not many Fusion Drives get upgraded.?
Otto
|
Upgrading a 2017 iMac's RAM and storage (was Re: [macsupportcentral] Question for SEE Finance users?)
#Upgrading
On Oct 23, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Jim Saklad via Groups.Io < jimdoc@...> wrote:
If you replaced the HDD with a SATA SSD (e.g.,?an?OWC Mercury Extreme?Pro 6G) in 1- or 2-TB size,?I don’t know how you would tell?the OS to NOT try to make it a fusion drive.
Or maybe, while you’re in there, you also replace the small blade SSD with a not-quite-so-small super-fast SSD, and let the 2 be a fusion pair.
!st, apologies for not starting a brand new message thread. Some of the hardware issues were in the original topic discussion, so I’ve decided to (I hope) let the server software keep them linked.
Continuing various tests on launch times for SEE Finance related to last restart of my iMac, number of other applications open, etc., I’ve decided that, when I have time, I’m going to replace my Fusion Drive with a PCI-e express 1 TB SSD as my boot volume, possibly replace my 1 TB 5800 RPM internal drive with a SATA SSD, and boost the RAM to 32 GB. The SSD-SATA drive decision isn’t firm yet, with the greatest incentive being never to have to do this again.
I’m thinking this will extend the useful life of my iMac for many years, although I know I’ll miss 10 Gbit Ethernet, next gen WiFi, and possibly other advances.
OWC’s instructional videos are quite detailed, and also quite reassuring as regards my ability to do the work.
I may partition the SATA-SSD into either a native Windows boot version or install the deeply discounted version of Parallels that OWC sells there along with Mojave.
I’m assuming that if I install a SATA 2.5” form factor SSD where the rotating platter drive is now, the iMac will recognize it as bootable.
Have any list members done this surgery themselves? It looks tedious, but not dangerous (but then, I’ve never priced replacement iMac display modules from Apple).
If any of you have done a rotating platter to SATA SSD upgrade, how would you characterize the performance boost?
Thanks so much, Jim Robertson
|
On Oct 23, 2019, at 7:08 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
Thanks for the pointer. However, most of the responses address a question I didn’t ask; i.e.,"why would I want to run 64 bit apps and not 32 bit apps," rather than “why would the OS developers make it so that 32-bit apps won’t run at all?” The answer is that the os developers want To be able to evolve the os to adopt new technologies So that they can do new things and not have to rely on old outdated libraries (some of which are 32 bit). So, at some point they cut the cord and it lets them move ahead instead of being bound by restrictions that 32 bit causes. Sure, they could stick with 32bit, but it is a drain on resources to have to develop for both 32 bit and 64 bit code. This also allow apple to support new hardware and keep up with competition. Dave
|
While there may be some security issues or some hard-to-avoid incompatibilities between new features and 32-bit apps (I don’t know), there are a number of deprecated APIs that are 32-bit only. Maintaining lots of backwards compatibility is expensive and adds complexity (making reliability more difficult). It uses more RAM (both versions of libraries loaded, for example), etc.
It happens with almost all OSs that, after a couple years warning, they drop old features, as much as anything to make room on the developer’s workload for new ones.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 23, 2019, at 16:33, jimrobertson via Groups.Io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
?
Does Disk Utility show the drives? If not, try diskutil list
The application does (sort-of) show the 2 contributions to the Fusion drive, but it provides less information than does Micromat’s MachineProfile, which displays both the rotating platter internal SATA drive (5800 rpm) and the PCI module SSD (28 GB — amazing that we now think of that as being “small.”
People at OWC tells me I’d get the best performance from an OWC PCIe SSD, which isn’t TOO much more than a SATA module, leaving the current internal rotating platter drive in place. I could reinstall Mojave on it, but of course it wouldn’t be as snappy as it is now without a tiny PCI-e “turbocharger” SSD as part of the same logical volume. I don’t have a bunch or 32-bit apps hanging around, however, and I doubt that if I installed Catalina on the Aura-Pro 2X 1 GB PCI-e SSD I ‘d be booting to that laggardly internal rotating platter drive very often.
I have one other (sort of) related question, although we’ve wandered pretty far afield from why SEE Finance can take so long to load as an app.
I still don’t understand why Apple is insisting that we no longer run 32-bit apps. Clearly the hardware can still run them. Does crafting the new OS to permit that somehow limit its capability, or prevent some security protections from working correctly?
Thanks so much,
Jim Robertson
|
On Oct 23, 2019, at 4:27 PM, Dave Kelly via Groups.Io < drkelly@...> wrote:
I googled why 64 bit applications and got a few answers:
Thanks for the pointer. However, most of the responses address a question I didn’t ask; i.e.,"why would I want to run 64 bit apps and not 32 bit apps," rather than “why would the OS developers make it so that 32-bit apps won’t run at all?”
I guess I should ask this question on the Apple support forums. I’ll do so.
Jim Robertson
|
Re: Is there any way to rediscover the origins of an email pdf attachement
#Mail
On Oct 23, 2019, at 2:15 PM, rlhamil < rlhamil@...> wrote:
Here's something else that may ?work, using Terminal, although it's more difficult.
I’ll certainly agree with that!!!!!!
Well beyond my abilities, for certain, but perhaps there are members here who understand the classic joke
“There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don’t”
for whom this might be an insightful tip.
Jim Robertson
|
On Oct 23, 2019, at 2:51 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io < jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I still don’t understand why Apple is insisting that we no longer run 32-bit apps. Clearly the hardware can still run them. Does crafting the new OS to permit that somehow limit its capability, or prevent some security protections from working correctly?
I googled why 64 bit applications and got a few answers:
|
Does Disk Utility show the drives? If not, try diskutil list
The application does (sort-of) show the 2 contributions to the Fusion drive, but it provides less information than does Micromat’s MachineProfile, which displays both the rotating platter internal SATA drive (5800 rpm) and the PCI module SSD (28 GB — amazing that we now think of that as being “small.”
People at OWC tells me I’d get the best performance from an OWC PCIe SSD, which isn’t TOO much more than a SATA module, leaving the current internal rotating platter drive in place. I could reinstall Mojave on it, but of course it wouldn’t be as snappy as it is now without a tiny PCI-e “turbocharger” SSD as part of the same logical volume. I don’t have a bunch or 32-bit apps hanging around, however, and I doubt that if I installed Catalina on the Aura-Pro 2X 1 GB PCI-e SSD I ‘d be booting to that laggardly internal rotating platter drive very often.
I have one other (sort of) related question, although we’ve wandered pretty far afield from why SEE Finance can take so long to load as an app.
I still don’t understand why Apple is insisting that we no longer run 32-bit apps. Clearly the hardware can still run them. Does crafting the new OS to permit that somehow limit its capability, or prevent some security protections from working correctly?
Thanks so much,
Jim Robertson
|
Re: Is there any way to rediscover the origins of an email pdf attachement
#Mail
Here's something else that may ?work, using Terminal, although it's more difficult. ?The ?example attachment was a small photo in another group member's ?email. This was done on Mojave.
sh-3.2$ xattr -l 'Jim logo small.jpg' com.apple.metadata:com_apple_mail_dateReceived: 00000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 33 41 C1 B0 54 FD 80 00 ?|bplist003A..T...| 00000010 ?00 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|................| 00000020 ?00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|................| 00000030 ?00 11 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|..| 00000032 com.apple.metadata:com_apple_mail_dateSent: 00000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 300000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 300000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 33 41 C1 B0 57 0F 00 00 ?|bplist003A..W...| 00000010 ?00 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|................| 00000020 ?00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|................| 00000030 ?00 11 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|..| 00000032 com.apple.metadata:com_apple_mail_isRemoteAttachment: 00000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 08 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|bplist00........| 00000010 ?01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 ?|................| 00000020 ?00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 09 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|..........| 0000002a com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms: 00000000 ?62 70 6C 69 73 74 30 30 A3 01 02 03 5F 10 34 22 ?|bplist00...._.4"| 00000010 ?4A 69 6D 20 53 61 6B 6C 61 64 20 76 69 61 20 47 ?|Jim Saklad via G| 00000020 ?72 6F 75 70 73 2E 49 6F 22 20 3C 6A 69 6D 64 6F ?|roups.Io" <jimdo| 00000030 ?63 3D 6D 65 2E 63 6F 6D 40 67 72 6F 75 70 73 2E ?|c=@groups.| 00000040 ?69 6F 3E 5F 10 37 52 65 3A 20 5B 6D 61 63 73 75 ?|io>_.7Re: [macsu| 00000050 ?70 70 6F 72 74 63 65 6E 74 72 61 6C 5D 20 51 75 ?|pportcentral] Qu| 00000060 ?65 73 74 69 6F 6E 20 66 6F 72 20 53 45 45 20 46 ?|estion for SEE F| 00000070 ?69 6E 61 6E 63 65 20 75 73 65 72 73 3F 5F 10 39 ?|inance users?_.9| 00000080 ?6D 65 73 73 61 67 65 3A 25 33 43 43 39 46 32 46 ?|message:%3CC9F2F| 00000090 ?38 46 30 2D 37 35 42 30 2D 34 31 44 43 2D 39 30 ?|8F0-75B0-41DC-90| 000000A0 ?31 36 2D 34 30 45 39 45 43 31 31 30 32 42 42 40 ?|16-40E9EC1102BB@| 000000B0 ?6D 65 2E 63 6F 6D 25 33 45 08 0C 43 7D 00 00 00 ?|%3E..C}...| 000000C0 ?00 00 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 00 00 00 ?|................| 000000D0 ?00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B9 ? ? ? ? ? |.............| 000000dd com.apple.quarantine: 0082;5db0afec;Mail;
Note the typical 'com.apple.quarantine' for something downloaded; also some other metadata for dates sent and received - ?one would have a bit of work converting them, because ?the dates are NOT text format. And finally, the interesting extended attribute, com.apple.metadata:kMDItemWhereFroms, which appears ?to have the subject and message-id in it, sufficient that one might be able to track down the ?specific e-mail it came from, ?although Spotlight may not be much help there.
Safari does something similar (other than ?the specifically mail-related extended ?attributes) ?for downloads, which would ?show ?the URL it came ?from.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 23, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
I believe he is not trying to locate the file, but to find out how he got a copy of it.
That’s true, but once Bev showed me how to find the paths to email attachments, I found out where it came from (attached to a specific email). I knew I had one copy in my ~/Downloads folder, but the expanded utility of Spotlight Bev showed me enabled me to see there was another copy in my email database, and from there, using infoClick and the path to that file I was able to see when it appeared in my computer and discover which email message it came with (if you open a PDF email attachment rather than just doing a quicklook, that copy is saved to your downloads folder without telling you how it got there).
Jim Robertson
|
Re: Is there any way to rediscover the origins of an email pdf attachement
#Mail
On Oct 23, 2019, at 2:42 PM, jimrobertson via Groups.Io < jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Oct 23, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
I believe he is not trying to locate the file, but to find out how he got a copy of it.
That’s true, but once Bev showed me how to find the paths to email attachments, I found out where it came from (attached to a specific email). I knew I had one copy in my ~/Downloads folder, but the expanded utility of Spotlight Bev showed me enabled me to see there was another copy in my email database, and from there, using infoClick and the path to that file I was able to see when it appeared in my computer and discover which email message it came with (if you open a PDF email attachment rather than just doing a quicklook, that copy is saved to your downloads folder without telling you how it got there).
Jim Robertson
It turns out that Spotlight “sometimes” shows the email message and at others it does not. ?In my small test it did show the email message, as shown in the attached picture, displays that Spotlight added a “MAIL & MESSAGES” section in which it placed the email messages.
In another test Spotlight showed the email message under “TOP HIT”, but in another test Spotlight showed no email messages at all. ?I haven’t figured out why. ?I do have “Mail & Messages” selected in System Preferences, Spotlight, so that’s not the problem.
Another thought was the email search that Dave suggested. ?I tried that and was able to select its “Attachments" suggestion, which it easily found. ?You can add more items to the search as shown in Mail’s Help, Find email, Search for messages. ?You can enter dates. ?However, your solution of using InfoClick took the cake — it's much more intuitive than Mail’s searches.
-- Bev in TX
|
Re: Is there any way to rediscover the origins of an email pdf attachement
#Mail
On Oct 23, 2019, at 11:58 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
I believe he is not trying to locate the file, but to find out how he got a copy of it.
That’s true, but once Bev showed me how to find the paths to email attachments, I found out where it came from (attached to a specific email). I knew I had one copy in my ~/Downloads folder, but the expanded utility of Spotlight Bev showed me enabled me to see there was another copy in my email database, and from there, using infoClick and the path to that file I was able to see when it appeared in my computer and discover which email message it came with (if you open a PDF email attachment rather than just doing a quicklook, that copy is saved to your downloads folder without telling you how it got there).
Jim Robertson
|
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 at 19:12, Jim Saklad via Groups.Io <jimdoc= [email protected]> wrote: I *think* Apple implementation is that there are a physically separate?“blade” SSD and a SATA rotating disk HD which are *electronically*?merged to act like a single fused drive. iFixit’s site shows your model with a blade SSD and also with a HDD. If you replaced the HDD with a SATA SSD (e.g.,?an?OWC Mercury Extreme?Pro 6G) in 1- or 2-TB size,?I don’t know how you would tell?the OS to NOT try to make it a fusion drive.
Or maybe, while you’re in there, you also replace the small blade SSD with a not-quite-so-small super-fast SSD, and let the 2 be a fusion pair.
Does Disk Utility show the drives? If not, try diskutil list in Terminal. According to <> the flash storage is in the range 24 - 128 GB.
|
Jim Saklad
Paul
Dave Kelly
