Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 13, 2024, at 2:14?AM, David G Brooks via groups.io <davidandtrishab@...> wrote:
I hope to be guided by your experience and save gambling with MY $100!?
Whether or not you go spelunking inside your iMac may depend on how fast you want the computer to run. OWC sells an NVMe.2 card that replaces the tiny SSD in the 2017 iMac with a 1 or 2 TB INTERNAL SSD which is DRAMATICALLY faster than the Fusion Drive. You can install all the stuff from your external drive, including the OS itself, on that internal SSD and turn the internal rotating platter drive into your Time Machine backups repository. OWC also has free videos (as does iFixIt) that show all the steps involved. You’re still stuck on an older operating system, but you have all the ports on the back of the iMac and you can connect a Thunderbolt Dock from OWC if you need more.
I’m far less adventuresome inside my Macs than I once was. I had original 128 K RAM, then 512 K RAM “fat” Macs, then a Mac Plus in which one could increase the RAM by desoldering a resistor on the motherboard.
Once the Mac evolved to Intel Processors, I experimented on my Mac Pro and managed to Install a “Bare Metal” version of Windows Small Business Server 2008 OS on it to make sure I could run a Windows Outlook and document host for our business (my only experiences with Windows until Boot Camp and then virtualization software that permitted one to run BOTH the macOS and Window came along).
I’m waiting to hear from the Luna Display folks whether I can use the iMac’s ports, keyboard, and mouse with Luna Display. If not, I won’t go down that road.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
? On Nov 12, 2024, at 7:12?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Bev, my post was to the group, not aimed at you.?
Yes, your post that was quoted triggered some of my response, but so did Randy’s post which mentioned a keyboard from Canada and a Windows or cross platform keyboard, and so did the posts talking about the keyboards in GB. But that was a tiny sampling of GB keyboards, it appears.
I don’t remember which group I posted my whine to, MacSupportCentral, IOMUG, AllApple or AppleiPhone, since so many of us are on several. It was nothing more than a whine, an unsolvable complaint. I don’t use a password manager app, that will save or enter passwords automatically, by personal choice. So on the few that I try to remember I reliy a lot on muscle memory. Most of the commonly allowed special characters are on the number line. Look at those on your Mac’s keyboard and then on your iPhone. They are not in the same position. So it boils down to hunt and peck, rather than touch or muscle memory.?
I It’s possible that they did an ergonomic study, but it’s also possible that someone got a harebrained idea on a blue moon. ?Only someone who worked on that team could answer that question.
I was going to suggest using a 3rd party keyboard, until then I read this, “While entering sensitive information like passwords, your iPhone or iPad will refuse to use the third-party keyboard and only show the Apple keyboard, even if you have removed it from your list of added keyboards.” ?That makes sense for security reasons, but it also means that you can’t reorder keys to suit your particular needs.
The only alternative that I can see is to learn new muscle memory. ?I’ve had physical keyboards that were so different that it required that. ?With sufficient practice, I was able to easily switch back and forth between keyboards.
The point remains, there is no universal standard for ?keyboards. Many are based on QWERTY, but why do number pads or ?calculators have the one on the bottom, but ?phone keypads have ?one on the top row? Each row of number increases as you go to the right, but why not consistently as you travel vertically, either up or down?
Perhaps that hikes back to touch tone phones?
An unsolvable complaint, a whine!
No easy solutions.
And Alt isn’t even used in Apple’s world.?
But that just made it all the more interesting. -- Bev in TX
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
I read your message with interest, Jim!
I very much look forward to learn just how you get on with Lunar Display.
I have my original 2017 iMac on my desk and just love the display quality. I KNOW that it will fail eventually so, as an interim measure (without “wandering inside the iMac” - I just love that phrase!) I have set up my operating system on an external 1TB SSD. I can choose to boot from either my internal 2TB Fusion Drive or from my External 1TB SSD.
I hope to be guided by your experience and save gambling with MY $100! ?
Kind regards,
— David?
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On 13 Nov 2024, at 03:25, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
On Nov 12, 2024, at 11:05?AM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Of all the people who have contacted me and asked how to use their iMac as a monitor for another Mac, I don’t think that anyone found it worthwhile to attempt. ?However you accomplish it, it will be a kludge. And it might not work well, or at all.
Two reasons I’m trying: - Back in the days that Target Display Mode did work, it worked perfectly.
- The iMac is already sitting on my desk.
I guess I’ll confirm the return policy for Luna Display. On the other hand, I’ve never SEEN so many positive comments on a “rip open your iMac” how-to-do-this” YouTube video as from the link you sent me, but the guy WAS pretty proficient (for example, 3D printing a bracket to guide two cables that now needed to exit the back of the exenterated iMac). I don’t have the heart to wander inside the iMac again myself, but if I’m reassured the Luna Display interface will work with my iMac I’ll at least give it a try and report back. Certainly it wouldn’t make economic sense to spring for a refurbed M1 iMac, but if it enables limited Apple Intelligence manipulations of photos on screens bigger than my 11” iPad Pro or 14” M3 MacBook Pro for an investment of just about $100 (with the laptop doing the processing), I think it’s worth the attempt.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
Thanks so very much for that historical background.
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On Nov 12, 2024, at 11:47?PM, JR via groups.io <Yahoo_jr@...> wrote:
In the late 90's I worked at an Apple retailer... it's about that time you were able to by a Mac with an optional PC card in it that would allow you to run DOS and early versions of Windows. Later on in 2006 you could add Windows to your operating system and boot right into it using Boot Camp Assistant or Boot Camp. This only worked on Intel based Macs.
Per Wikipedia: "Boot Camp currently supports Windows 10 on a range of Macs dated mid-2012 or newer.^<(software)#cite_note-9> Apple Silicon <> is not supported due to being ARM-based <>. Although Windows 11 <> supports ARM64, the ARM64 version is only licensed to OEMs, and there are no drivers for the Apple silicon SoCs <>, so it cannot run on Apple Silicon Macs natively.
For that basic/simple reason, Apple made keyboards that had PC commands printed on SOME keys (though smaller print) that included "alt" on the option key, and the 4 leaf "clover" ? beside the ?.
I recall working on a PC keyboard and using "alt" + a decimal number to type accented characters and those miscellaneous lines to "build" forms with fancy frames and corners...
"Control" and the remaining keys were the same in either OS. I'm typing this on an old clear keyboard with black keys from my G4 days – the Apple Pro keyboard from 2000.
In 2006 Apple improved Apple keyboard support (for Windows) including Delete, PrintScreen, NumLock, and ScrollLock keys. (I only have delete and num lock symbols on this keyboard.)
Cheers
Dinosaur JR
--
Bev in TX
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Getting rid of Junk in Mail
In the late 90's I worked at an Apple retailer... it's about that time you were able to by a Mac with an optional PC card in it that would allow you to run DOS and early versions of Windows. Later on in 2006 you could add Windows to your operating system and boot right into it using Boot Camp Assistant or Boot Camp. This only worked on Intel based Macs.
Per Wikipedia: "Boot Camp currently supports Windows 10 on a range of Macs dated mid-2012 or newer.^<(software)#cite_note-9> Apple Silicon <> is not supported due to being ARM-based <>. Although Windows 11 <> supports ARM64, the ARM64 version is only licensed to OEMs, and there are no drivers for the Apple silicon SoCs <>, so it cannot run on Apple Silicon Macs natively.
For that basic/simple reason, Apple made keyboards that had PC commands printed on SOME keys (though smaller print) that included "alt" on the option key, and the 4 leaf "clover" ? beside the ?.
I recall working on a PC keyboard and using "alt" + a decimal number to type accented characters and those miscellaneous lines to "build" forms with fancy frames and corners...
"Control" and the remaining keys were the same in either OS. I'm typing this on an old clear keyboard with black keys from my G4 days – the Apple Pro keyboard from 2000.
In 2006 Apple improved Apple keyboard support (for Windows) including Delete, PrintScreen, NumLock, and ScrollLock keys. (I only have?? delete and??? num lock?? symbols on this keyboard.)
Cheers
Dinosaur JR
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 11:05?AM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Of all the people who have contacted me and asked how to use their iMac as a monitor for another Mac, I don’t think that anyone found it worthwhile to attempt. ?However you accomplish it, it will be a kludge. And it might not work well, or at all.
Two reasons I’m trying: - Back in the days that Target Display Mode did work, it worked perfectly.
- The iMac is already sitting on my desk.
I guess I’ll confirm the return policy for Luna Display. On the other hand, I’ve never SEEN so many positive comments on a “rip open your iMac” how-to-do-this” YouTube video as from the link you sent me, but the guy WAS pretty proficient (for example, 3D printing a bracket to guide two cables that now needed to exit the back of the exenterated iMac). I don’t have the heart to wander inside the iMac again myself, but if I’m reassured the Luna Display interface will work with my iMac I’ll at least give it a try and report back. Certainly it wouldn’t make economic sense to spring for a refurbed M1 iMac, but if it enables limited Apple Intelligence manipulations of photos on screens bigger than my 11” iPad Pro or 14” M3 MacBook Pro for an investment of just about $100 (with the laptop doing the processing), I think it’s worth the attempt.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
Bev, my post was to the group, not aimed at you.?
Yes, your post that was quoted triggered some of my response, but so did Randy’s post which mentioned a keyboard from Canada and a Windows or cross platform keyboard, and so did the posts talking about the keyboards in GB. But that was a tiny sampling of GB keyboards, it appears.
I don’t remember which group I posted my whine to, MacSupportCentral, IOMUG, AllApple or AppleiPhone, since so many of us are on several. It was nothing more than a whine, an unsolvable complaint. I don’t use a password manager app, that will save or enter passwords automatically, by personal choice. So on the few that I try to remember I reliy a lot on muscle memory. Most of the commonly allowed special characters are on the number line. Look at those on your Mac’s keyboard and then on your iPhone. They are not in the same position. So it boils down to hunt and peck, rather than touch or muscle memory.?
The point remains, there is no universal standard for ?keyboards. Many are based on QWERTY, but why do number pads or ?calculators have the one on the bottom, but ?phone keypads have ?one on the top row? Each row of number increases as you go to the right, but why not consistently as you travel vertically, either up or down?
An unsolvable complaint, a whine!
And Alt isn’t even used in Apple’s world.?
Brent ?
On my Mac mini running 10.15.7?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 1:50 PM, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote: True. ?But all of the keyboards that I mentioned were made by Apple for Apple products. ? Please don’t take this wrong, as I am neither upset nor angry. ?You mentioned that you posted about the physical vs onscreen keyboard differences in a different forum, so I’m not sure why that was pointed at me. ?I try to help in this forum as much as I can. ?I’m very far from knowing everything, and sometimes I can’t find anything in spite of extensive online searches. ?Sometimes life is just too busy. ?In those circumstances I don’t reply. ? On Nov 12, 2024, at 1:19?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Since some of these keyboards being discussed are third party, and some designed for Windows…
Also, on one of the Apple lists, I recently posted a whine about the special characters on Apple physical and on-screen keyboards not being consistent in locations. Since we are now worrying about an Alt key, that is not used in Apple or for-Apple apps, that is like arguing about the color of unicorn blood. ?
There is no universal standard for ?keyboards.
-- Bev in TX
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
True. But all of the keyboards that I mentioned were made by Apple for Apple products.
Please don’t take this wrong, as I am neither upset nor angry. You mentioned that you posted about the physical vs onscreen keyboard differences in a different forum, so I’m not sure why that was pointed at me. I try to help in this forum as much as I can. I’m very far from knowing everything, and sometimes I can’t find anything in spite of extensive online searches. Sometimes life is just too busy. In those circumstances I don’t reply.
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On Nov 12, 2024, at 1:19?PM, Brent via groups.io <whodo678@...> wrote:
Since some of these keyboards being discussed are third party, and some designed for Windows…
Also, on one of the Apple lists, I recently posted a whine about the special characters on Apple physical and on-screen keyboards not being consistent in locations. Since we are now worrying about an Alt key, that is not used in Apple or for-Apple apps, that is like arguing about the color of unicorn blood.
There is no universal standard for keyboards.
--
Bev in TX
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 10:27?AM, JAMES ROBERTSON <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
That got me to wondering whether I could use a refurbed or used M1 iMac with Luna Display to recreate a large-screen environment, as well as one capable of functioning as a modern macOS computer, and for THAT I guess I’ll need to learn more about Luna Display.
And, one of the first things that comes to mind is that if I’m using my current iMac’s display with Luna Display and my laptop closed in “clamshell closed” mode with Luna Display but the CPU being the laptop, whether I’ll be able to use the iMac’s mouse and keyboard and an extended desktop that includes the external display that’s connected to my iMac (I have NO idea what kind of cable I now have connecting the iMac to the external display, and shudder to think about the viper’s nest of cables that’s coiled impossibly behind my desk. ` Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
Since some of these keyboards being discussed are third party, and some designed for Windows…
Also, on one of the Apple lists, I recently posted a whine about the special characters on Apple physical and on-screen keyboards not being consistent in locations. Since we are now worrying about an Alt key, that is not used in Apple or for-Apple apps, that is like arguing about the color of unicorn blood. ?
There is no universal standard for ?keyboards.?
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On Nov 12, 2024, at 06:49, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
? On Nov 11, 2024, at 5:33?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
So I wondered whether any keyboard shortcuts lists mentioned anything about alt.
* My search found the following 2007 document, which doesn’t mention alt.
* After feeling a bit lost at sea when switching from MS Windows when I got my first Mac, I purchased O’Reilly’s “Mac OS X: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?They had a free download from an appendix in that book, “The Master Mac OS X Secret Keystroke List: Appendix E - Mac OSX: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?That appendix has no reference to alt. ?With that said, I dug around this morning and I was able to download a sample of that book from Apple Books. ?It says the following about that key, “The Option key (labeled Alt on keyboards in some countries) is sort of a "miscellaneous" key.” (The bolding was added by me.)
* In 2009, macmost.com had a similar shortcut list, “Snow Leopard Power User Keyboard Shortcuts”. ?It also doesn’t mention alt.
* The next keyboard shortcut list that I found was from a MacRumors 2011 guide. ?It too didn’t refer to the key as alt.
* Every other list that I have is much more recent. ?Apple’s current keyboard shortcut article mentions, “Option (or Alt) ?”, but it also mentions “Control (or Ctrl) ?”. ?It then goes on to say, “On keyboards made for Windows PCs, use the Alt key instead of Option, and the Ctrl key or Windows logo key instead of Command.”
In macOS Sonoma, there is no mention of alt in: Apple > Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts? I don’t remember whether that was the case for preferences in earlier OS versions.
So all of this has left me wondering what keyboard shortcut lists look like in countries that had the option key labeled as alt. ?Also, did their System Preferences show alt or option in their keyboard shortcuts?
-- Bev in TX
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 12, 2024, at 9:27 AM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
The above link is describes a project that is at once much more AND much less than what I did. It involves exenterating almost the entire contents of a 2014 (logic board, power supply, speakers, etc.) 5K iMac, to create pretty much the screen equivalent of a Mac Studio display… Of all the people who have contacted me and asked how to use their iMac as a monitor for another Mac, I don’t think that anyone found it worthwhile to attempt. However you accomplish it, it will be a kludge. And it might not work well, or at all. For about $250 my son went out and got a 43-inch 4K Samsung television. It mates up with his Macintosh perfectly, and it not only gives him a huge amount of working area, but it allows him to watch movies that he downloads that look breathtaking. Also, it’s a fully functioning television, complete with stereo speakers built-in. More impressive? My wife wanted to mate her new MacBook Pro with an external monitor for while at home. My son picked out a very favorably reviewed Hisense 43-inch television, that was even cheaper than his Samsung television, (Hisense monitors are usually cheap POS’s, but apparently they make some good stuff too) and she uses it as a monitor, and it too looks amazing. My wife is thrilled with it. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
On Nov 12, 2024, at 7:49?AM, Bev in TX via groups.io <countryone77@...> wrote:
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
Just to add to the confusion:
As far back as when there was only a little box displaying a smily face center-screen (monochrome, B/W) ?after one depressed the power button and produced the library-upsetting loud “bong” sound, my son (a grammar school student at the time), discovered that he could flummox his dad by setting the Keyboard to some other latinesque language character set).
He’s still at it. When my sister and I were attempting to stay on course and even on the pavement in the huge SUV in which we attempted to navigate the tiny paved sheeps’ paths the Scots call “roads” in summer 2023, the same son sitting in the back seat would delight in pairing his iPhone to the rented car’s infotainment system and changing the language to French or German in hopes of derailing our search for the next castle or distillery.
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 11, 2024, at 10:57?PM, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
Only a very few models of iMac can be used as an external monitor.
For all of the rest, you can use Luna Display to do the job.
Randy, Thanks SO much for your response and the links it contains.
THIS link:
contained the most information, but almost terrified me, because I’ve “been there, done [almost] that once before on my 2017 21.5” iMac (disabling the internal “Fusion Drive” by replacing the tiny–in physical size AND RAM capacity–Processor Direct card, replacing it with a 1 TB NVMe.2 card, populating IT with my previous environment from a fresh Time Machine backup, and repurposing the internal rotating platter 1 TB drive as new repository for those Time Machine backups. In the course of doing so, I almost killed the usefulness of the machine by bending one of the 2 tiny wires in the BT cable socketon the periphery of the iMac’s case (I was able to bend it back with a tiny jeweler’s screwdriver, and the iMac still runs macOS 10.15.7 acceptably, but of course cannot do any of the things freshly announced this year that require an Apple Silicon processor.
The above link is describes a project that is at once much more AND much less than what I did. It involves exenterating almost the entire contents of a 2014 (logic board, power supply, speakers, etc.) 5K iMac, to create pretty much the screen equivalent of a Mac Studio display, but with no speakers, a replacement web cam, etc., so that the iMac no longer functions as a computer. Literally HUNDREDS of comments to that video celebrate it as a great way to save money yet have a gorgeous 5K display panel. It wasn’t clear to me whether all that component removal left the remnants of the iMac still capable as receiving input from BT devices such as a wireless keyboard and pointing device; I expect not.
The troubling element of the discussion is that those comments include some that pronounce “Luna Display didn’t work” as the reason the commenters advanced to that project themselves.
I almost never use my iMac any more, and I suspect that once I begin using Apple Intelligence features I’ll not use it at ALL. That got me to wondering whether I could use a refurbed or used M1 iMac with Luna Display to recreate a large-screen environment, as well as one capable of functioning as a modern macOS computer, and for THAT I guess I’ll need to learn more about Luna Display.
So, I’d be grateful for comments from others who’ve discovered and used Luna Display…
--?
Jim Robertson
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Nov 12, 2024, at 8:19 AM, Bayswater via groups.io <Bayswater@...> wrote:
Interesting lead for a keyboard when I get the M4 Mini.
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 09:52 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office. I *used* to love Matias keyboards. But they discontinued both of their models that I liked. Now they only offer ridiculously over-priced models, and it’s likely that I’ll never consider a Matias keyboard again. Keyboards are a really personal thing. But here are some deals going on right now to check out: Anker Ultra Compact Slim Profile Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard $21 Seenda Full-Size Bluetooth Keyboard for Mac OS, Multi-Device Slim Rechargeable Wireless Keyboard with Numeric Keypad $20 (This keyboard using a dongle to connect. I find this more reliable than Bluetooth, but it takes up a USB port.) Personally I like an old fashioned type keyboard with mechanical keys (good for touch-typing). This one is an amazing steal!: MageGee Compact 60% Mechanical Gaming Keyboard - LED Backlit, 68 Mini Keys, Blue Switch, Wired, Portable Design $23 __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
Interesting lead for a keyboard when I get the M4 Mini. ?
?
On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 09:52 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office.
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 08:49 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
On Nov 10, 2024, at 7:39 AM, Bayswater via <Bayswater@...> wrote:
On a Mac, Alt-Delete usually does that.
Randy looks all over his Apple keyboard for the “Alt” key….and fails to find it.
I suspect that you mean the “Option” key.
No, I meant the Alt key. ?When I saw your reply, I was curious and looked at 5 Apple keyboards I have handy. ?All but one have both Alt and Option on the key in question. ?The one that doesn’t is a new M2 Air.?
Do you know when you got those, and where are you?
Otto
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mai
On Nov 11, 2024, at 5:33?AM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
In the UK the Option key was until recently labelled as ‘alt’, as on a PC kb. I’ve no idea why.
Otto
Now you’ve made me curious. ?
I didn’t start using Macs until 2008. ?On my 2008 Mac Pro and 2010 MacBook Pro keyboards, the key’s main label was option, but it in included a smaller alt on the upper left of the key. ? There is no mention anywhere about alt on my 2019 MacBook Pro (Intel) keyboard.
So I wondered whether any keyboard shortcuts lists mentioned anything about alt.
* My search found the following 2007 document, which doesn’t mention alt.
* After feeling a bit lost at sea when switching from MS Windows when I got my first Mac, I purchased O’Reilly’s “Mac OS X: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?They had a free download from an appendix in that book, “The Master Mac OS X Secret Keystroke List: Appendix E - Mac OSX: Missing Manual Leopard”. ?That appendix has no reference to alt. ?With that said, I dug around this morning and I was able to download a sample of that book from Apple Books. ?It says the following about that key, “The Option key (labeled Alt on keyboards in some countries) is sort of a "miscellaneous" key.” (The bolding was added by me.)
* In 2009, macmost.com had a similar shortcut list, “Snow Leopard Power User Keyboard Shortcuts”. ?It also doesn’t mention alt.
* The next keyboard shortcut list that I found was from a MacRumors 2011 guide. ?It too didn’t refer to the key as alt.
* Every other list that I have is much more recent. ?Apple’s current keyboard shortcut article mentions, “Option (or Alt) ?”, but it also mentions “Control (or Ctrl) ?”. ?It then goes on to say, “On keyboards made for Windows PCs, use the Alt key instead of Option, and the Ctrl key or Windows logo key instead of Command.”
In macOS Sonoma, there is no mention of alt in: Apple > Settings > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts? I don’t remember whether that was the case for preferences in earlier OS versions.
So all of this has left me wondering what keyboard shortcut lists look like in countries that had the option key labeled as alt. ?Also, did their System Preferences show alt or option in their keyboard shortcuts?
-- Bev in TX
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On 12 Nov 2024, at 05:52, Randy B. Singer via groups.io <randy@...> wrote:
On Nov 11, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Thanks. I don’t know how that could be misinterpreted. UK Apple keyboards are now labelled with ‘Option’ but I don’t know when it changed from ‘alt’ (our Macs are 2012 or older). To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office.
One has an Option and a Command key, but no “Alt” anywhere.
The other has an Option key that is also marked with a little microsoft window symbol and the text “Start.” On that same keyboard, the Command key also has the text “Alt.”
So, apparently Alt is not always equal to Option. I *think* it always has been on Macs, but it’s a different story with Windows. It looks like the 2nd kb you describe is multi-platform. Otto
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Re: Can a 2017 21.5" iMac be repurposed as a monitor for an Apple Silicon Mac Mini?
On Nov 11, 2024, at 4:06 PM, jimrobertson via groups.io <jimrobertson@...> wrote:
I’m wondering if I can repurpose the iMac screen to be a monitor for the Mini. This comes up all the time. Only a very few models of iMac can be used as an external monitor. For all of the rest, you can use Luna Display to do the job. See: Use your iMac as a display with target display mode Use your iMac as an external monitor Want to use an iMac as an external monitor? You need an old version of macOS Using 27-inch iMac As Monitor Requires Very Specific Cable Luna Display ($80) allows you to use iMacs that otherwise can't be used as an external display as one See: __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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Re: Getting rid of Junk in Mail
On Nov 11, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Otto Nikolaus via groups.io <otto.nikolaus@...> wrote:
Thanks. I don’t know how that could be misinterpreted. UK Apple keyboards are now labelled with ‘Option’ but I don’t know when it changed from ‘alt’ (our Macs are 2012 or older). To muddy things up…I have two different models of Matias keyboard (from Canada) for the Mac, in my office. One has an Option and a Command key, but no “Alt” anywhere. The other has an Option key that is also marked with a little microsoft window symbol and the text “Start.” On that same keyboard, the Command key also has the text “Alt.” So, apparently Alt is not always equal to Option. __________________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Essential But Hard To Find Macintosh Software and Advice __________________________________________________
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David G Brooks
JR
Brent