Many thanks to the responses and suggestions. I apologize for not getting the name straight. It is a Mac Pro from 2008. I clean the dust regularly - you don't realize how dusty the house is until you open the case.
I also have a 21"? iMac bought at the same time which also exhibits that behavior and is also cleaned regularly. Actually bought 3 and two are over heating. My daughter does not use hers much.
The systems are on UPS with surge protection so I think that narrows it down to heat/fans. These fans are speed controlled I believe so the issue could be the fan or the controller. ? Is there anyone here that has replaced either? The sources on Google are non-specific and I do not want to put a non-Mac part in them so I was looking for a link to an inexpensive Mac parts store.?
There is the possibility that parts for octogenarian computers are in short supply so the question is will fans/controllers from younger Macs fit? I would think that those parts would be common over many generations.
Thanks again for all the answers and apologies for not responding sooner. A site I look after got hacked and I have been up to my hairline in php code delivering eviction notices .......
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Shut Down/Restart Problem
#Mac
Hello All, I have found one “issue” since upgrading to Catalina and it’s starting to drive me crazy. I shut down my Mac each night before bed. ?I follow the usual sequence of clicking on the Apple icon, choosing shut down, and shut down again. ?About 50% of the time my Mac will choose to Restart instead of shut down….and I have been extremely careful to choose shut down each time. ? It’s really a pain having to wait for it to load up so I can shut it down again. ?It has always shut down on the second try when this happens. Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions about this? ?I would love to find a fix. Thanks for any feedback. Janet
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Great info, Dan.
It reminds me of one I solved remotely. It was very rare, and not likely to apply to others.
The user lived in Thailand, and his Mac would restart intermittently. He had checked the 3 items Randy listed. He didn't seem to have the power noise we are discussing. He finally disclosed that his outlets did not have a ground, typical in his location. He was using a 3 to 2 adapter. I suggested that he try a temporary ground wire. Not easy in a concrete building. He resisted, but finally tried it. When he did the problem went away. He then had a permanent grounded outlet put in, professionally.
Sent from my iPad,
Brent
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:29 PM, Daniel Settles <denver1.dan1@...> wrote:
Howdy.
I'll add to this.
I used to visit a private girls school near Middleburg, Virginia, to
deal with several Macs. The human buildings were very old with old
electricity and no central A/C. The horse barns for the rich girls'
own horses were nicer than the dorms or office buildings
They moved a graphics design office to a different room then installed
a large 110 volt AC window unit on the same circuit as the Mac,
printer, scanner, etc., and every time the AC's compressor kicked on
the Mac shut down.
It took putting in a separate electrical circuit for the AC to solve
the problem.
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Randy B. Singer wrote: I DO wholeheartedly agree that everyone should have a UPS.??If you experience one nasty brownout with a huge following surge in?power, it will have paid for itself. ?I also note that folks who have USP's?have Macs that tend to be remarkably trouble-free and long-lived.
I’ve only gotten CyberPower devices for my full-sized UPS needs for years: - There’s one where the FiOS cable comes into the house, and the router and other electronics live.
- There’s one at the TV, supporting the set-top box, the Blu-Ray player, the Apple TV, and a couple of other low-requirement digital devices.
- There’s one supporting my wife’s full-size Linux box and accessories.
- I have a much smaller unit for my laptop and accessories.
- And I pay a monthly rent to the power company to have a whole-house surge protector at the power meter, which comes with a $10,000 insurance policy.
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Howdy.
One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer
into a UPS battery box. ?
A. ?It's not necessary. ?One can print when power comes back on.
B. ?The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save
files and shut down computer when the power goes off.
Yes, just computers and external drives that can be damaged if writing to them just when power goes off. If any other peripherals lose power then so what?? Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:36:59 -0400, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote:
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a
reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer
I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would
lose power.
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Howdy. I'll add to this. I used to visit a private girls school near Middleburg, Virginia, to deal with several Macs. The human buildings were very old with old electricity and no central A/C. The horse barns for the rich girls' own horses were nicer than the dorms or office buildings They moved a graphics design office to a different room then installed a large 110 volt AC window unit on the same circuit as the Mac, printer, scanner, etc., and every time the AC's compressor kicked on the Mac shut down. It took putting in a separate electrical circuit for the AC to solve the problem. I have several 110 volt 20 amp isolated group circuits for my computer equipment. The standard in the USA is a 110 volt 15 amp circuit. My Mac Pro (late 2013, 16 GB RAM, 512 MB SSD, two video cards), with no monitor connected and all externals disconnected, running a heavy load test, draws about 340 watts. Yes, the more RAM you have the more power the computer requires. To figure out watt demand you multiple amps times volts. 20 AMPS x 120 volts = 2,400 watts. 15 AMPS x 120 volts = 1,800 watts. A good recommendation is to load the circuit to about 80% of the maximum. (Most European countries use 220 volt power. In the US, most houses have both 110 and 220 volt with the 220 volt being used for heavy consumption devices like electric clothes dryers, electric ranges, furnaces, but circuits for lights, lamps, standard wall outlets, using 110 volts.) And yes, I have several UPS battery boxes. Northern Virginia is one of the more heavily forested urban areas and we see the tail end of hurricanes, electrical storms, and a LOT of new construction in this area. A typical Brother laser print could draw up to 500 watts when printing and maybe 50 watts in standby mode. Devices with electric motors and heating equipment draw a lot of power. Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:22:36 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote: Here is a personal experience. A law office was having a problem
with their Macs shutting off unexpectedly, usually all at the same
time. After some sleuthing, I found that the problem was that they
had a refrigerator on the floor in the break room that, when it
cycled on, it caused such a sag in power in the office that their
Macs just shut off. (Sometimes a large laser printer will cause the
same thing to happen when you turn it on.) I purchased APC UPS's for
each Mac, and I was shocked to find that the problem persisted. Then
I noticed that the APC UPS's didn't include AVR. I returned them all
and substituted another brand of UPS that was less expensive, but
which included AVR. Problem solved. [|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: 1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would lose power.
Here is a personal experience. A law office was having a problem with their Macs shutting off unexpectedly, usually all at the same time. After some sleuthing, I found that the problem was that they had a refrigerator on the floor in the break room that, when it cycled on, it caused such a sag in power in the office that their Macs just shut off. (Sometimes a large laser printer will cause the same thing to happen when you turn it on.) I purchased APC UPS's for each Mac, and I was shocked to find that the problem persisted. Then I noticed that the APC UPS's didn't include AVR. I returned them all and substituted another brand of UPS that was less expensive, but which included AVR. Problem solved. My point is that an approx. $70 UPS may be just about worthless. You have to purchase a good one that includes AVR. In my experience such UPS's usually cost over $100. Some UPS's costing over $100 don't include AVR, notably several APS brand UPS's, which is a brand that I don't recommend. I usually recommend CyberPower UPS's: CyberPower 1000AVR ($110) <> or CyberPower model selection tool: However, I DO wholeheartedly agree that everyone should have a UPS. If you experience one nasty brownout with a huge following surge in power, it will have paid for itself. I also note that folks who have USP's have Macs that tend to be remarkably trouble-free and long-lived. ___________________________________________ Randy B. Singer Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions) Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance ___________________________________________
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Also, it should have some surge protection, and good ones even condition the power. Randy Singer has written about that many times.
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Daniel Settles wrote: Howdy.
One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer
into a UPS battery box.
A. It's not necessary. One can print when power comes back on.
B. The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save
files and shut down computer when the power goes off.
Denver Dan
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Oh, I have used MacTracker for 20 years, and I have even donated to him twice.
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:32 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: 10.5 is Leopard. Lion is 10.7. Snow Leopard is in between. I recommend a great program, available in the App Store, called MacTracker, which is a data base of just about everything Apple has built. The last PowerPC iMac it shows is the G5 from October 05 to March 06. As you say, the latest it can take is 10.5.8.
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Howdy. One should not plug large power-draining equipment like a laser printer into a UPS battery box. A. It's not necessary. One can print when power comes back on. B. The primary purpose of the UPS is to allow enough time to save files and shut down computer when the power goes off. Denver Dan On Fri, 25 Oct 2019 16:36:59 -0400, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote:
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a
reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer
I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would
lose power.
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
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Barry, I don't mind be corrected, if done with a little courtesy. I did mislabel 10.5 as Lion, and not Leopard. But your reply was not well received.
I hate the names Apple uses for the Mac OS. The numbers are much easier to keep straight and even give informations beyond the general OS.
I had suggested that the OP might learn the correct description of his Mac. ?I see nothing to suggest even the form factor, or whether or not it is a desktop or laptop. Someone else assumed he had a 2008 Power Mac. Again, my mistake, I attributed the comment to the OP. A post after the one I am replying to guesses that it is a Mac Pro, but again the OP has not told us which form factor.
Why do you think it is a iMac, Barry?That it difficult to open a iMac, at the moment, has little or nothing to do with the issue, until we find out the form factor. I relayed my experiences with my MBP, early 2008, for the fan replacement issue.
But back to the OP's problem. I assume by reset means that it stops and restarts as the subject line suggests. The model or OS does not really matter. As several have suggested, their is a hardware issue relating to the power supply. Cleaning the dust out will only solve the symptoms, not the issue. The same with replacing a fan, unless the fan is also failing.
It would be nice if the OP,??ihor43us, would add some information to this thread. The thread has 14 posts in 24 hours and not a peep out of him.
Brent
15" MacBook Pro, early 2008, Mac OS X 10.7.5 Power Mac G4 Quicksilver 2002,?OS X 10.5.8 Mac mini G4 original,?OS X 10.5.8 iPad, 3RD Gen Wi-Fi, iOS 9.3.5 iPhone 4S, iOS 9.3.6 iPhone 3GS, iOS 6.1.6 iPod nano 6th Gen, Software Version 1.2, formatted for Windows, warranty replacement for original Nano iPod Classic, 80 GB,?Software Version 1.1.2
On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:32 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io wrote: On Oct 25, 2019, at 12:02 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
First figure out which model you have, as a PowerMac won't run any thing past 10.5.8, Lion. My MacBook Pro, early 2008, will run up to El Capitan.?
10.5 is Leopard. Lion is 10.7. Snow Leopard is in between. I recommend a great program, available in the App Store, called MacTracker, which is a data base of just about everything Apple has built. ?The last PowerPC iMac it shows is the G5 from October 05 to March 06. As you say, the latest it can take is 10.5.8.? Open it up and blow out the dust bunnies. Then if it is still noise, do a web search for new fans. I used iFixIt for a how to video, and purchased the fan i needed. Btw, the right and left fan on my MBP are different.
Unlike the earlier beige G5 machines, those with ADB keyboards and mice, and floppy drives, iMacs are a pain to take apart. How much is it worth it to do too much on a 14 or more year old machine?? On Oct 24, 2019, at 3:17 PM, ihor43us via Groups.Io < ihor43us@...> wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However, I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan but I am open to suggestions.
The question is : does anyone know where I can purchase replacement fans for this old but virile computer? I really do not want to part with it. Call me silly, but it has been through a lot with me and I do not want to just discard it when it can still perform.
BTW, I am on El Capitain since that is the last OS version that I can download.
Thanks
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To add a little to this, printers, particularly laser printers, create a sudden power surge.
I have a 1? year old small Brother laser all-in-one. Looked up its specs. I cn draw 1000 watts when heating the fuser element.
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First figure out which model you have, as a PowerMac won't run any thing past 10.5.8, Lion. My MacBook Pro, early 2008, will run up to El Capitan.?
O.P.’s machine runs El Cap. There was only one Mac Pro in 2008 able to run El Cap: | Model Identifier | MacPro3,1 |
|---|
| Model Number | A1186 |
|---|
| EMC | 2180 |
|---|
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I would feel insecure with a $70 UPS. I guess our posts passed on the internet, because I just posted about laser printers causing surges. The momentary outage is not the problem, it is the surge that does the damage.
And UPSes and surge protectors do weaken with each event.
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On Oct 25, 2019, at 1:36 PM, Barry Austern via Groups.Io < barryaus@...> wrote:
Howdy I'll second Randy's observations. I've dealt with all three conditions at clients. Denver Dan On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:40:51 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However,
I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need
replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave
it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets
again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan
but I am open to suggestions.
In my experience Macs tend to spontaneously re-boot for one of three
reasons.
1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. ?For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. ?It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would lose power.
|
To add a little to this, printers, particularly laser printers, create a sudden power surge. Try to place them on a different circuit if possible, had if they are in the same room. Or at least not onto the same UPS or surge protector. It is not common, but large appliances like old refrigeration compressors, air compressors or even washing machines can cause a surge.
In my area, we have a 50 year old or older underground power lines, and we get many momentary outages or surges each year. My electronics, UPS and surge protectors, and appliances are starting to be affected. The power company is aware of it and supposedly has plans for new lines. I live in the second or third larges city in my state.
Sent from my iPad,
Brent
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Show quoted text
On Oct 25, 2019, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Settles <denver1.dan1@...> wrote:
Howdy
I'll second Randy's observations.
I've dealt with all three conditions at clients.
Denver Dan
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:40:51 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote:
The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However,
I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need
replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave
it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets
again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan
but I am open to suggestions. In my experience Macs tend to spontaneously re-boot for one of three
reasons.
1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
2) Your Mac is overheating. With old Macs this might be due to the
accumulation of dust inside the case insulating the heat coming from
the motherboard. Or detritus in the case might be strangling your
fans. Or your fans may be failing. If it is one of the first two,
opening up your Mac and cleaning it out may be all that is necessary
to fix things.
3) A failing power supply (flyback) or simply cold solder joints
around your power supply. Often the heat cycling in your Mac expands
and contracts the solder joints and causes them to eventually crack
(you can feel these cracks with your fingernail - but don't try this
without discharging your power supply first!) and causes a
discontinuity. Touching the solder joints for the power supply with
the tip of a soldering pen to re-flow the solder easily fixes cold
solder joints.
___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|]
iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
|
Howdy I'll second Randy's observations. I've dealt with all three conditions at clients. Denver Dan On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:40:51 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However,
I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need
replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave
it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets
again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan
but I am open to suggestions.
In my experience Macs tend to spontaneously re-boot for one of three
reasons.
1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. ?For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. ?It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
I would not run a desktop machine without a UPS. You can get a reasonably decent one for $70 or less. When I start my laser printer I hear my UPS click, so I assume that maybe without it my Mac would lose power. 2) Your Mac is overheating. ?With old Macs this might be due to the
accumulation of dust inside the case insulating the heat coming from
the motherboard. ?Or detritus in the case might be strangling your
fans. ?Or your fans may be failing. ?If it is one of the first two,
opening up your Mac and cleaning it out may be all that is necessary
to fix things.
3) A failing power supply (flyback) or simply cold solder joints
around your power supply. ?Often the heat cycling in your Mac expands
and contracts the solder joints and causes them to eventually crack ?
(you can feel these cracks with your fingernail - but don't try this
without discharging your power supply first!) and causes a
discontinuity. ?Touching the solder joints for the power supply with
the tip of a soldering pen to re-flow the solder easily fixes cold
solder joints.
___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
|
On Oct 25, 2019, at 12:02 AM, Brent via Groups.Io < whodo678@...> wrote:
First figure out which model you have, as a PowerMac won't run any thing past 10.5.8, Lion. My MacBook Pro, early 2008, will run up to El Capitan.?
10.5 is Leopard. Lion is 10.7. Snow Leopard is in between. I recommend a great program, available in the App Store, called MacTracker, which is a data base of just about everything Apple has built. ?The last PowerPC iMac it shows is the G5 from October 05 to March 06. As you say, the latest it can take is 10.5.8.? Open it up and blow out the dust bunnies. Then if it is still noise, do a web search for new fans. I used iFixIt for a how to video, and purchased the fan i needed. Btw, the right and left fan on my MBP are different.
Unlike the earlier beige G5 machines, those with ADB keyboards and mice, and floppy drives, iMacs are a pain to take apart. How much is it worth it to do too much on a 14 or more year old machine?? On Oct 24, 2019, at 3:17 PM, ihor43us via Groups.Io < ihor43us@...> wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However, I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan but I am open to suggestions.
The question is : does anyone know where I can purchase replacement fans for this old but virile computer? I really do not want to part with it. Call me silly, but it has been through a lot with me and I do not want to just discard it when it can still perform.
BTW, I am on El Capitain since that is the last OS version that I can download.
Thanks
|
Howdy I'll second Randy's observations. I've dealt with all three conditions at clients. Denver Dan On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:40:51 -0700, Randy B. Singer wrote: The machine is from 2008, but it does all I need it to do. However,
I fear that the fans are not what they used to be and probably need
replacing. If I use it for any length of time it resets. If I leave
it with the log on page after it resets, in a few hours it resets
again. it makes a horrible noise when booting. I think it is the fan
but I am open to suggestions. In my experience Macs tend to spontaneously re-boot for one of three
reasons.
1) There is too much current draw on the electrical circuit your Mac
is attached to. For example, a refrigerator cycling on, or a laser
printer starting up, will cause a huge draw. It might be enough to
cause your Mac to have a hard crash and then re-boot.
2) Your Mac is overheating. With old Macs this might be due to the
accumulation of dust inside the case insulating the heat coming from
the motherboard. Or detritus in the case might be strangling your
fans. Or your fans may be failing. If it is one of the first two,
opening up your Mac and cleaning it out may be all that is necessary
to fix things.
3) A failing power supply (flyback) or simply cold solder joints
around your power supply. Often the heat cycling in your Mac expands
and contracts the solder joints and causes them to eventually crack
(you can feel these cracks with your fingernail - but don't try this
without discharging your power supply first!) and causes a
discontinuity. Touching the solder joints for the power supply with
the tip of a soldering pen to re-flow the solder easily fixes cold
solder joints.
___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
[|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|][|] iSent from iDan's GyazMail on my MacPro
|
Thank You , Paul. I found it when I went into the drive. I also found the old folder from my Mac Pro, which I deleted
Jeannie?
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On Oct 24, 2019, at 10:58 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
When you look at the backups.backup folder on the Time Machine destination drive, do you see a folder with the name of the current computer (the same name that is in the Shared system preference pane)?
I would a)unhook all externals except for the Time Machine destination drive, click the drop down icon on the menu bar and select backup now. Then I would open the System Preferences and click on Time Machine and watch the progress bar. That should prove or disprove whether the internal hard drive was being backed up.
Alternatively you could just choose to purchase either SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner and make bootable backups of the internal drive. A new 2 TB drive for that purpose and the software mentioned should be a little less than $100.
Paul MacTech Services --? ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
Should have said no to that. The only thing excluded is the ?time machine external drive. My other external drives are not excluded , as they are only on when I send something to them Jeannie? On Oct 24, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Paul < paul@...> wrote:
Hi
In your system settings time machine, when you click on the options button, on the lower right, is your internal drive being excluded? ? MacTech Services --? ?Supporting the Greater Los Angeles? Macintosh?Community since 1988. ? ? ? ? ? ?626-449-5529
I am finally going to take the plunge and install Catalina very soon. I want to make sure I have a back up of my Macintosh HD. I went into time machine, But all I see being backed up is the external drive which I use to bring in all my photos . Despite googling how to add my Macintosh HD, which is an sst, I can find no way to add it to the time machine back up.
How can I back up my set Mac HD?
Jeannie?
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On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 03:53 PM, DaveC wrote:
To all:
Please quote some of the message you are replying to so we can understand the context of your message without digging through the thread.
?
Thanks,
Dave
?
Hide quoted text
?
On Oct 24, 2019, at 2:29 PM, Dave Kelly via Groups.Io < drkelly@...> wrote:
No.
DaveC This topic has been hashed over and over for the past couple of weeks. I'm sorry my answer of "No" was so curt. It's been asked and answered a few times. Anyway, if you would like to be a moderator and point out every time someone doesn't add a quote in their reply we could add you as one of our moderators. If you're interested, email [email protected] and make that a request. Dave
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Janet Brunner
Brent
Jim Saklad
Dave Kelly