Re: VM/370 Bob Abele Version 1.1
On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 07:11 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:
ENTER:?
RESTORE ALL ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
RESTORING VMREL6
DMKDDR710A DEV ?0581 INTERVENTION REQUIRED
?
And I am in a RUNNING state. Now what? Sorry. I just don't remember.
?
Never mind. The tapes do not have two EOT marks at the end of the DDR dump.
?
?... Mark S.
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VM/370 Bob Abele Version 1.1
I wanted to generate a copy of Bob's version 1.1 and of course got stuck. I do not remember what I need to do when DDR runs out of tape.
?
Bob's instructions, in README_2.txt include:
?
5. in the telnet window you should see the prompt "ENTER CARD READER..."
? ? ? ? input 581 3420
? ? ? ? output 131 3330 VMREL6
? ? ? ? restore all
? ? ? ? (restore now takes about 2 minutes)
? ? ? ? input 582 3420
? ? ? ? output 132 3330 CPR6L0
? ? ? ? (restore takes another 2 minutes)
6. on Hercules:
? ? ? ? quit
?
When I get DDR IPL'd and the first tape processed, I have the following on the screen.
?
VM/370 DASD DUMP/RESTORE PROGRAM RELEASE 6
ENTER CARD READER ADDRESS OR CONTROL STATEMENTS
ENTER:?
INPUT 581 3420 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
ENTER:?
OUTPUT 131 3330 VMREL6 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
ENTER:?
RESTORE ALL ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
RESTORING VMREL6
DMKDDR710A DEV ?0581 INTERVENTION REQUIRED
?
And I am in a RUNNING state. Now what? Sorry. I just don't remember.
?
?... Mark S.
|
Re: Error when using KICKS from another user
?
Uploaded the screen shot to the files section (photos would have required a new album).?
?
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: Error when using KICKS from another user
Just a suggestion, but you could try doing a screen recording
(video) of the console when those error messages fly by and see if
you can find them in the video by pausing at that frame.
On 5/14/25 04:10, Michael Grom wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks Ren¨¦,
at least that helped passed the error. However, having VSAM
files on the VSAMIN volume, linking to kicks 194 194 MR it bails
out with a transaction aborted upon accessing the data through
the Murach example.
Some error messages seem to pass by on the console but too
fast to read before the kicks banner is shown.?
however, there seems to be kind of a flaw either with kicks
for CMS or the Murach example. While this works nicely under
MVS, when trying to access a record not contained in the VSAM
file, the KICKS tran displays
its error message and then the terminal is stuck in an?
system wait state from which one cannot recover.?
?
?
(tried to insert a screen shot here, but was rejected)
?
?
So I reckon the usability of KICKS might be limited under
CMS.?
?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5?
? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-?
? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime
and limpid green, a second scene
Now
fights between the blue you once knew
Floating
down, the sound resounds
Around
the icy waters underground
Jupiter
and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune,
Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd
Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: Error when using KICKS from another user
You should be able to upload screenshots to the images section on
groups.io and put a link in here
Dave
On 14/05/2025 09:10, Michael Grom via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks Ren¨¦,
at least that helped passed the error. However, having VSAM
files on the VSAMIN volume, linking to kicks 194 194 MR it bails
out with a transaction aborted upon accessing the data through
the Murach example.
Some error messages seem to pass by on the console but too
fast to read before the kicks banner is shown.?
however, there seems to be kind of a flaw either with kicks
for CMS or the Murach example. While this works nicely under
MVS, when trying to access a record not contained in the VSAM
file, the KICKS tran displays
its error message and then the terminal is stuck in an?
system wait state from which one cannot recover.?
?
?
(tried to insert a screen shot here, but was rejected)
?
?
So I reckon the usability of KICKS might be limited under
CMS.?
?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5?
? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-?
? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime
and limpid green, a second scene
Now
fights between the blue you once knew
Floating
down, the sound resounds
Around
the icy waters underground
Jupiter
and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune,
Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd
Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: Error when using KICKS from another user
Thanks Ren¨¦,
at least that helped passed the error. However, having VSAM files on the VSAMIN volume, linking to kicks 194 194 MR it bails out with a transaction aborted upon accessing the data through the Murach example.
Some error messages seem to pass by on the console but too fast to read before the kicks banner is shown.?
however, there seems to be kind of a flaw either with kicks for CMS or the Murach example. While this works nicely under MVS, when trying to access a record not contained in the VSAM file, the KICKS tran displays
its error message and then the terminal is stuck in an? system wait state from which one cannot recover.?
?
?
(tried to insert a screen shot here, but was rejected)
?
?
So I reckon the usability of KICKS might be limited under CMS.?
?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
Dear all,
a little update (my post on this must have got lost, maybe I've been too forgetful to hit the "send" button). My fellow from the Vintage Computer forum has a 3174-51R with 1MB of memory and 1.2MB Floppy drives. So tn3270 is not available, neither is token ring or ethernet. Maybe there is a chance that the SNA traffic is funneled into the Cisco router via X.25 and the Cisco does the job to convert to tn3270? From the docs that I've seen about the Cisco IOS this is not what "protocol conversion" does - it's for having ascii terminals like VT-100 talking to a tn3270 server.?
So it looks like tough luck for my fellow forum member.?
?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: Error when using KICKS from another user
On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 12:10 PM, Michael Grom wrote:
Any idea what I have done wrong?
?
?
You need to reduce the virtual storage of the CMSUSER virtual machine from 15M to something smaller or equal to 14M, and you should be okay.
?
Cheers,
?
Rene FERLAND, Montreal
?
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Error when using KICKS from another user
Dear Forum,
On my VM/370 CE 1.1 I do have KICKS as provided by Ren¨¦ Ferland installed. It works fine when logging on with the KICKS guest. When trying to access from another user, e.g. CMSUSER, I encounter an error. The directory definitions as much as it comes to memory are almost similar, with CMSUSER being sized 1M bigger.?
after logging on, I detach disk 194 and 195 and then link?
LINK KICKS 194 194 MR?
LINK KICKS 195 195 MR
ACCESS 195 K
?
issuing the KICKS command yields?
?
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 19:07:52
kicks quiet
<{>}:EXEC TEST FOR MECAFF
DMSVIB401S V.M. SIZE (F00000) CANNOT EXCEED 'CMSVSAM' START ADDRESS (E00000).
DMSABN148T SYSTEM ABEND 104 CALLED FROM F8E306.
CMS
?
Any idea what I have done wrong?
?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
You guys are simply fantastic. Thanks for your time!
To wrap it up:?
No SNA in VM/370 including CE - full stop. The only way to reach it from a terminal or terminal emulation is to tn3270 to the Hercules console port.
A 3174 with a 2.4MB Floppy is equipped to boot large microcode with the features necessary to use tn3270 as a protocol to attach a CUT terminal to a mainframe's tn3270 port.?
This tn3270 traffic might be funnelled through a router like a Cisco (network bridge).?
There are working examples (config panels9 on how to configure a 3174 to connect the CUT terminal via tn3270.7
?
The intended topology of this fellow vintage mainframe guy is to connect the terminal (dunno if it is DFT or CUT) to the 3174, from there to the Cisco he owns via X.25 and from there via DLSw to Hercules (maybe over the Internet, I'd be happy to volunteer) and then into preferably VM/370 - which will not happen according to the information you guys provided due to the lack of SNA in VM/370. That fellow guy is also concerned about the SNA configuration (e.g. VTAM node config in MVS if the target was MVS) which shouldn't be too much of a problem if I was reading the information about 3705.c and DLSw support right.?
So I will come back to him and check?
- does he have a CUT terminal
- is his 3174 capable of communicating to a mainframe using tn3270 over TCP/IP -> 2.4MB Floppy for big microcode
I reckon the comms between the 3174 and the Cisco might well be X.25 instead of Token Ring. From the Cisco he would have to decide if he stays on local Ethernet or routes through the WAN to some hosted Hercules service.?
?
Now if his 3174 supports tn3270 via TCP/IP this would make the life a whole lot easier also for him - no SNA worries and VM/370 as a possible target. I'll let you know how this turned out.?
Thank you again for your insights!?
?
Michael
?
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
On 5/11/25 15:33, Dave Wade via groups.io wrote: However some 3174s can run TCP/IP and if they have CUT mode terminals then these can initiate TN3270? sessions to Hercules.
I have done this via Token Ring through a Cisco Router which routed the IP across to an Ethernet network.
You need either two 2.4 Mb floppy drives or one 2.4 and a hard disk, and an Ethernet or Token Ring card. We've done this at LSSM (with your help many years ago Dave, if you recall) and can provide configuration panel snapshots to anyone who needs them. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
Michael,
So you are correct there is no SNA in VM/370 so a VTAM connection
isn't possible. However some 3174s can run TCP/IP and if they have
CUT mode terminals then these can initiate TN3270? sessions to
Hercules.
I have done this via Token Ring through a Cisco Router which routed
the IP across to an Ethernet network.
You need either two 2.4 Mb floppy drives or one 2.4 and a hard disk,
and an Ethernet or Token Ring card.
Dave
On 11/05/2025 19:51, Michael Grom via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dear Forum,
a fellow board member on a German vintage computer forum, who
has a 3174 and a Cisco Router asked me if it is possible to
attach these to a Hercules emulator running VM/370. For the best
of my knowledge, all 3270 in VM are locally attached. Is there a
chance to configure such a SNA connection in VM/370 or is that
only available in later versions of VM? So far, all examples on
the Internet were targeting MVS 3.8j with TK4- and a Hercules
with an updated 3705 device. Still kind of bumpy I daresay but
working. However, that fellow keeps asking for VM, not MVS.?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5?
? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-?
? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime
and limpid green, a second scene
Now
fights between the blue you once knew
Floating
down, the sound resounds
Around
the icy waters underground
Jupiter
and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune,
Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd
Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
Sadly, VM/CE and other VM/370 systems do not speak SNA at all.
Dear Forum,
a fellow board member on a German vintage computer forum, who has a 3174 and a Cisco Router asked me if it is possible to attach these to a Hercules emulator running VM/370. For the best of my knowledge, all 3270 in VM are locally attached. Is there a chance to configure such a SNA connection in VM/370 or is that only available in later versions of VM? So far, all examples on the Internet were targeting MVS 3.8j with TK4- and a Hercules with an updated 3705 device. Still kind of bumpy I daresay but working. However, that fellow keeps asking for VM, not MVS.?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
VM/370 CE an05d SNA (via DLSw)
Dear Forum,
a fellow board member on a German vintage computer forum, who has a 3174 and a Cisco Router asked me if it is possible to attach these to a Hercules emulator running VM/370. For the best of my knowledge, all 3270 in VM are locally attached. Is there a chance to configure such a SNA connection in VM/370 or is that only available in later versions of VM? So far, all examples on the Internet were targeting MVS 3.8j with TK4- and a Hercules with an updated 3705 device. Still kind of bumpy I daresay but working. However, that fellow keeps asking for VM, not MVS.?
kind regards
Michael
--
TK5? ? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
TK4-? ? ? on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
VM/370 on Raspberry Pi 5 with Raspberry OS "bookworm"
Lime and limpid green, a second scene
Now fights between the blue you once knew
Floating down, the sound resounds
Around the icy waters underground
Jupiter and Saturn, Oberon, Miranda and Titania
Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten
(Syd Barrett of Pink Floyd)
|
Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?
?
I don't see the point either.? Even if it could be made to work, why would anyone want to?? We can define all of the local 3270s we need and then some.
?
I am the author of the DIAGNOSE 58, 7C, and 8C modifications that many here are using.? I did not put any support within them for remote 3270s.? I didn't see the need, or any future need.? Further, if someone did have a "remote user" that they wanted to connect to their VM system, they could just define a local 3270 device and let them access it through the internet with an IP and port number, and security considerations, as appropriate.
?
However, I dont think it should be deleted. It is part of CP.? Sometimes it is referenced for a "how to do something".? And there is no need to deprecate it.? Simply do not define remote clusters in DMKRIO.
?
My thoughts...
?
Regards,
Bob
?
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Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
On 07/05/2025 03:06, Ross Patterson via
groups.io wrote:
On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 13:28 William Denton via
<williamedenton= [email protected]>
wrote:
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270
in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much
as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be
abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?
Unless someone has an actual bisync
controller, or a 3275 or 3276, I don't see the point.? I'm
not aware of anything that emulates one, and TN3270 is an
excellent alternative for distant emulated 3270s.
Whilst its not Hercules I am sure there are a few folks around with
P390's and the 5-pack used to run just fine on mine. I no longer
have it, but MCA cards that will run bi-sync are not uncommon,
neither are 3174's with comms adaptors that will also run bi-sync.
So it is possible to have remote 3270's on CE but I can't see any
one doing it except as an act of pure torture..
Dave
|
Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
Hello! William (and Jay, and Dave), for my efforts, I would sometimes run a Hercules instance supporting the original Two Pack variety of VM 370. And would wow the people in my LUG with doing so, from where ever that event was meeting. In fact, one individual who had an objectionable opinion regarding mainframes and the dino occupants of the big museum here in the City was so surprised, he ended up changing his objectionable one for a good one. So, what all of you do is worth doing it. ----- Gregg Levine hansolofalcon@... "I'm still so smart I amaze even myself.", Han Solo From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Jay Maynard via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2025 10:39 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [h390-vm] Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support It should be possible to gen and load EP into a 3720 - or the 3705 emulator, as well. There's only one problem: I'm not aware of any copies of EP running around for either platform. On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 4:59?PM Dave Wade via <dave.g4ugm=mailto:gmail.com@groupsio> wrote: On 06/05/2025 21:27, William Denton via wrote: Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated? For a long time Hercules didn't support remote 3270s. In fact I have no idea how to support them now, but I think in theory it should be possible to generate and load EP into a 3720 I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote 3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc) Thoughts? It never was good. I wouldn't miss it... cheers, William -- Jay Maynard "As the two continued to chase separatists across the planet with the Wookiee guide running ahead of them, they all but collided the last three. And in a dead end. They turned to fire their weapons at the three, then there was a loud explosion. And the Wookiee had displayed his bowcaster which was loaded with explosive bolts. And the three lay dead. The Jedi Knight stood there mouthing insults in as many languages spoken in the Republic." From a Timelord's travels through the Old Republic during the Clone Wars, a still unpublished memoir.
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Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
It should be possible to gen and load EP into a 3720 - or the 3705 emulator, as well. There's only one problem: I'm not aware of any copies of EP running around for either platform.
On 06/05/2025 21:27, William Denton via
wrote:
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM
Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible)
at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and
either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?
For a long time Hercules didn't support remote 3270s. In fact I have
no idea how to support them now, but I think in theory it should be
possible to generate and load EP into a 3720
?
I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure
to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing
updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote
3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to
address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc)
?
Thoughts?
?
It never was good. I wouldn't miss it...
cheers, William
--
|
Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 13:28 William Denton via <williamedenton= [email protected]> wrote: Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible) at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?
Unless someone has an actual bisync controller, or a 3275 or 3276, I don't see the point.? I'm not aware of anything that emulates one, and TN3270 is an excellent alternative for distant emulated 3270s.
Ross
|
Re: Thoughts regarding remote 3270 support
On 06/05/2025 21:27, William Denton via
groups.io wrote:
Is there a consensus opinion on supporting remote 3270 in VM
Community Edition? Should it be supported (as much as possible)
at par with local 3270 support? Should it be abandoned and
either deleted or stubbed out as deprecated?
For a long time Hercules didn't support remote 3270s. In fact I have
no idea how to support them now, but I think in theory it should be
possible to generate and load EP into a 3720
?
I ask this because I'm working on a pretty major restructure
to local 3270 support and noticed that one of the existing
updates (HRC101DK) appears to have been abandoned for remote
3270s. A few other local 3270 updates have not even attempted to
address remote 3270 support (e.g. MORETIME, Diag8C, etc)
?
Thoughts?
?
It never was good. I wouldn't miss it...
cheers, William
_._,_._,_
Dave
G4UGM
|
Mark A. Stevens
Michael Grom
Ren¨¦ Ferland
Dave McGuire