Re: TN3270 and various versions.
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 06:09 PM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
On the LCM+L VM/SP machine, please send SEYMOURB?a copy of?VISTA IND$MAP Y2; he'll get it onto the Y disk at least under the original name.? (I don't want to upload it and get it corrupted.)?Also send me email that you did it.
Done. On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 06:09 PM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
- What does the table break for file transfers via?x3270?(my weapon of? choice) if it's made the default?
- Are transfers via?x3270?broken now?
Check square brackets and vertical bar - important characters in C programs. Martin * [ (U+005B) LEFT SQUARE BRACKET? OPENING SQUARE BRACKET???? AD 4A????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
* ] (U+005D) RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET? CLOSING SQUARE BRACKET? ?
BD 4F????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
* | (U+007C) VERTICAL LINE? VERTICAL BAR?????????????????? ?
4F 6A????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
Ray, ? I?@'ed you on the VM discord channel.? I'm a VM enthusiast as well, and have been working to get things figured out with running VMCE ( ) up to what I fondly remember from my college days (which was VM/SP 5).? EE is a good substitute?for XEDIT, and is under active development.? I also have some VMS experience, so if you have a concept question from DEC to IBM, I might be able to help translate.
Cheers,
Chris.
MAINT at N00DLE on the HNET.
Hello all,
I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
|
Re: TN3270 and various versions.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 05:50 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 01:26 PM, Bob Bolch wrote:
Does ZOC distribute its own IND$FILE MODULE?
See A sobering finding (Re: Automatic generation of transcoding tables for IND$FILE)
ZOC only implements the terminal side, it uses the IND$FILE already installed on the mainframe:
- ZOC works best with MECAFF IND$FILE on LCM+L's VM/SP 5 if you have managed to create such a DEFAULT IND$MAP A1
Do not forget to set ZOC to Code Page 1047.
On the LCM+L VM/SP machine, please send SEYMOURB?a copy of? VISTA IND$MAP Y2; he'll get it onto the Y disk at least under the original name.? (I don't want to upload it and get it corrupted.)?Also send me email that you did it.
- What does the table break for file transfers via?x3270?(my weapon of? choice) if it's made the default?
- Are transfers via?x3270?broken now?
- Should IND$FILE be tweaked so it's the default table???
From the full LCM+L VM/SP log msg, we have this older entry:
2018-06-15
. IND$FILE is installed for interactive file transfers. Our thanks to Bob?Polmanter (WABLY) for his efforts to make it compatible with VM/SP.
As your mail notes, I? think?that is derived from the MECAFF one.?Paging WABLY ....? -ahd- p.s. My standard disclaimer: I do? not?work for the LCM+L, and I do? not?speak for them.?
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 01:32 PM, Bob Bolch wrote:
my first VM/370 system in 1974
I was 23 when my university migrated from ICL 1900/GEORGE3-4 to IBM 4341+VM/SP 1 in 1982. This meant XEDIT from the beginning and EXEC 2. Nobody cared for older editors. I'd need an EXEC 2 interpreter for a full retro experience ;-) I do not have the historic experience of a VM system without XEDIT. XEDIT became my prototype of how powerful an editor can be and SHOULD be. I had big difficulties in learning to use EE because many capabilities of XEDIT VM/SP 1 were missing. Martin
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
Bob, I am with you 100%. I have VM to use VM through 3270 emulation. Dave ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bob Bolch
Sent: 14 November 2022 12:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [h390-vm] #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list? I don't understand why people aren't using VM/CMS to work on VM/CMS. I only use VM through?3270 emulation to work on the VMCE bug fixes and enhancements. That's what I used on my first VM/370 system in 1974, and it makes me feel young!! Why are you using on VM/370, if you don't want that real experience? ? On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 01:30 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote: Zowe way?
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 09:34 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote: No feedback ... are editors much less significant in the (emulated) mainframe community now since most people are doing it the Zowe way ?
Look how IBM teaches the z/OS basics to mainframe beginners: no 3270 access.
begins with installing Visual Studio Code and the Zowe extension.
Source code editing is done on the PC, Zowe cares for the upload to the mainframe.
I must admit: I am doing the EE development the IND$FILE way, using KEDIT for Windows as my principal editor for decades.
Martin
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
I don't understand why people aren't using VM/CMS to work on VM/CMS. I only use VM through?3270 emulation to work on the VMCE bug fixes and enhancements. That's what I used on my first VM/370 system in 1974, and it makes me feel young!! Why are you using on VM/370, if you don't want that real experience? Bob? Bolch
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 01:30 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
Zowe way?
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 09:34 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
No feedback ... are editors much less significant in the (emulated) mainframe community now since most people are doing it the Zowe way ?
Look how IBM teaches the z/OS basics to mainframe beginners: no 3270 access.
begins with installing Visual Studio Code and the Zowe extension.
Source code editing is done on the PC, Zowe cares for the upload to the mainframe.
I must admit: I am doing the EE development the IND$FILE way, using KEDIT for Windows as my principal editor for decades.
Martin
|
|
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
Ray I am not surprised, ?and I would say that VM/CMS is problematic even for die hard mainframers¡. ¡ and we don¡¯t have a ¡°for dummies¡± guide either¡.. ? I think if I try and set the scene you may find things easier¡.. The first thing to realize is that you are not trying to lean ¡°the OS¡± but two operating systems.. ? - The VM hypervisor, which confusingly is usually called CP or the ¡°Control Program¡± but is also known as ¡°VM¡±
- ¡°CMS¡±, the ¡°Conversational Monitor System¡± which is mostly what the user uses, and which you need to use to configure the system even if your main aim is to run MTS.
? In normal use the VM hypervisor creates a Virtual Machine for each ¡°user¡± and the users loads or IPLs (Initial Program Load) in IBM speak their own copy of CMS into their VM. CMS is a very simple operating system. After all it thinks it has a whole IBM Mainframe to itself. So it does not need to worry about Virtual Memory, multi-threading, or sharing files. Whilst modern CMS only runs in a VM the first versions would run on ¡°bare metal¡± so its pretty much a real OS. CP is also pretty simple. It creates VM¡¯s but generally each VM has its own disks (there is some sharing of read only disks). It does use Virtual Memory and a lot of smoke and mirrors. Together they are rather more than the sum of the parts¡ ? Once you grasp this concept, you may find it easier to navigate the world of VM. Of course the second challenge is that you are also learning what were back in the day multiple roles. You need to be an end users, systems programmer and operator, all rolled into one¡ ? As for where to go next¡ ¡ well perhaps the introductory ,manuals IBM provides some of which are here:- ?
? so ?
? and ?
? but the latter is pretty impenetrable so then the resources others have indicated¡ ? Dave ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ray Jewhurst
Sent: 14 November 2022 03:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: [h390-vm] Noob ISO help and guidance? I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated.
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
Hi Ray,
Here's another link from Moshix regarding running vm under mvs:
If you haven't already joined the Mainframe Enthusiasts Discord Channel, many people have done some amazing things and have discussed and shared them there.
ScottC
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
Thanks Scott! Unfortunately, I already own that book and while it is helpful, it doesn't cover such things as setting up VMs and shutting down and whatnot and those are the kinds of things I'm going to need to know in order to run things on my own emulated "Iron."
I will re-read that section of the book though. I actually bought it for OS/400 and VMS but at least the aforementioned section will teach me CMS.
Thanks
Ray ?
Hi Ray,
Perhaps this book will help?
The entire book can be found here:
See also these links:
ScottC
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
There are a couple of editions of a book (I think later it was split into two) edited by Gabe Goldberg and Phil Smith called The VM/ESA Systems Handbook, or maybe Applications Handbook. Maybe the earlier edition wasn't VM/ESA, but I can't find my copy which I think is off in my storage space.
If you can find one (it's hardcover) at a reasonable price, I'd go for it. It's more geared to running and configuring things than fundamental principles, but it's a good collection of stuff.
It won't help you directly with running Linux or other UNIXes on VM - that wasn't a thing except maybe for Amdahl UTS - when the book was written.
There's lots of help on this list, though.
Tony H.
Hello all,
I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
|
Re: Noob ISO help and guidance
Hi Ray,
Perhaps this book will help?
The entire book can be found here:
See also these links:
ScottC
|
Re: TN3270 and various versions.
If you can stand a little pain up (see below) front you might also try wx3270, a true Windows graphical version of wc3270 by the keeper of the?x3270 suite?Paul Mattes.
- The backend is based on x3270 so it's solid.
- The UX is on release 1.1, so setup is ... young (hence the pain).
A download link and a feedback/questions link are both on:???
(I'll warn you, Paul may be busy this week due to other commitments.)
-ahd-
p.s. Disclaimer (no, not?that?one): As my primary desktop is a Mac Studio and my Hercules instances live on a Raspberry Pi 4 running Linux, my daily 3270 driver is?x3270?and?I use?c3270?for consoles under?screen. I've tested?wx3270?and it didn't attack me, fry my token Windows box, or eat or my Fritos.? YMMV!
|
Noob ISO help and guidance
Hello all,
I am a retro-computing enthusiast and I do most of my retro work through emulation. I have played around with MTS, DOS, and MTS a bit on Hercules.? Now what I really like to learn is VM. I am quite intrigued by the OS and I would also like to try to run Amdahl Unix since I have a strong *Nix background. The problem is that IBM mainframe OS's? always come off as quite foreign to me. I caught on very quickly to the various DEC OS's for example but I have followed a "non-fundamental" type tutorial on how to install Amdahl Unix on VM and frankly I was overwhelmed. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would like to know if anyone would be able to steer me to some good beginning texts or tutorials. I am familiar with Moshix's Youtube channel but it has so many video that I don't know where to begin. Also, I was wondering if there is any "For Dummies" type text like there is for DOS/VS. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 01:30 AM, Drew Derbyshire wrote:
Zowe way?
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 09:34 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
No feedback ... are editors much less significant in the (emulated) mainframe community now since most people are doing it the Zowe way ?
Look how IBM teaches the z/OS basics to mainframe beginners: no 3270 access. begins with installing Visual Studio Code and the Zowe extension. Source code editing is done on the PC, Zowe cares for the upload to the mainframe. I must admit: I am doing the EE development the IND$FILE way, using KEDIT for Windows as my principal editor for decades. Martin
|
LCML+L VM/SP reliability (Who you gonna call?)
#LCM-L
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 09:02 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
When (if?) VM/SP 5 at LCM+L ( tty.livingcomputers.org:24 ) is up ¡
Ow.? You're insulting my silicon friend.? It's sadly deserved.
The LCM+L IBM VM/SP environment has been crashing ~ daily due to machine checks since it was moved to a new host running Suse. I suspect the LCM+L production Hercules environment needs a new build with different options and/or a different compiler (clang) and/or something.
(Oddly enough, the test VM/SP environment here at the Secret Lab seems more reliable, but that could simply be it's less loaded.? It is?on a Raspberry Pi and is built with platform-specific options.)
When the LCM+L IBM VM/SP environment is not responsive,?ping me via email.? (I'm gonna regret that!)
-ahd-
p.s. My standard disclaimer: I do not?work for the LCM+L, and I do?not?speak for them.
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 08:39 AM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
EE has run its first REXX macrofi
I have received a personal e-mail, but I cannot reply at the moment for technical reasons. I am fire-fighting my Windows PC for several hours, I cannot use git and I cannot write e-mails. I DO NOT WANT TO REBOOT, NOT NOW. Please be patient. Martin
|
Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The spirit has left the bottle and will never return: EE has run its first REXX macro.
This version is still incomplete and not stable enough for public display.
Now there is MUCH legwork to be done with the EXTRACT command ... and all existing EE commands have to "learn" how to provide an XEDIT-compatible return code.
Martin
The REXX macro below produces the same results on LCM+L's VM/SP Release 5.
File: PRIMEXED LISTING? A1?? RECFM: V LRECL: 125(125) Lines:? 100 Current:?? 12?
?====>???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 0 * * * Top of File * * *????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 1 1 is prime?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 2 2 is prime?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 3 3 is prime?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 4 4 = 2*2????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 5 5 is prime?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 6 6 = 2*3????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 7 7 is prime?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 8 8 = 2*2*2??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 9 9 = 3*3????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 10 10 = 2*5???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 11 11 is prime????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 12 12 = 2*2*3?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 13 13 is prime????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 14 14 = 2*7???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 15 15 = 3*5???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 16 16 = 2*2*2*2???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 17 17 is prime????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 18 18 = 2*3*3?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 19 19 is prime????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 20 20 = 2*2*5?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 21 21 = 3*7???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 22 22 = 2*11??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 23 23 is prime????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Modified?????????????????????????????????? XeDiT V1.3.0_221112-0730,? 6 File(s)?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
File: PRIMEXED EXEC???? A1?? RECFM: V LRECL: 125(255) Lines:?? 33 Current:?? 12?
?====>???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 0 * * * Top of File * * *????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 1 /* REXX */?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 2 address "XEDIT"????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 3????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 4 default = 23???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 5 parse arg limit .??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 6 if datatype(limit,"W") = 0 then limit = default????????????????????????? ?
??? 7 if limit < 7 then limit = default??????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 8 prime. = "0"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 9 number. = "0"??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 10????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 11 "bottom"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 12 do i = 1 to limit??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 13?? is_prime = 1 /* in the beginning we assume it is prime */????????????? ?
?? 14?? factors = ""?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 15?? m = i????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 16?? do j = 2 to prime.0??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 17???? do forever?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 18?????? if (m // prime.j) <> 0 then leave????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 19?????? is_prime = 0?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 20?????? factors = factors"*"prime.j??????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 21?????? m = m % prime.j??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 22???? end????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 23?? end??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 24?? if is_prime = 1 then do??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 25???? k = prime.0 + 1????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 26???? prime.k = i????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 27???? prime.0 = k????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 28???? "input" i "is prime"???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 29?? end??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 30?? else do??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 31???? "input" i "=" substr(factors,2)????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 32?? end??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 33 end????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 34 * * * End of File * * *????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Unchanged????????????????????????????????? XeDiT V1.3.0_221112-0730,? 7 File(s)?
|
Martin Scheffler