Re: How is BRexx different from Rexx?
If you want to test against REXX on IBM VM/SP 5, "x3270 tty.livingcomputers.org 24" and login as?guest using the instructions on the logo screen.? You can upload files using X3270/c3270's file transfer functionality.
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Re: #VMCE #rexx EE goes XEDIT - compiling a wish list
#VMCE
#rexx
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 05:45 PM, Martin Scheffler wrote:
What do I need for "EE goes XEDIT" ?
- from C call an assembler routine to establish a CMS SUBCOM evironment "XEDIT"
- an assembler routine which receives subcommand calls and calls the C part of the editor
- an assembler routine using EXECCOMM to share REXX variables, EXTRACT needs this
I am stuck at the second step since several days. I have written a special debugging tool outside of EE and found problems with the C standard library. There might be an incompatibilty of calling conventions. Quote from ?? p. 347:
When a program issues an SVC 202 call to a program that has become known to
CMS via SUBCOM, it places X'02' in the high-order byte of register one. Control
passes to the called program at the address specified by the called program when it
invoked SUBCOM.
The PSW specifies the system mask, the PSW key to be used, the program mask
(and initial condition code), and the starting address for execution. The
problem-state bit and machine-check bit may be set. The machine-check bit has
no effect in CMS under CP. The EC-mode bit and wait-state bit cannot be set;
they are always forced to zero. Also, one 4-byte user-defined word can be associ-
ated with the SUBCOM entry point, and referred to when the entry point is subse-
quently called.
Note: When control passes to the specified entry point, the register contents are:
R? 2? Address of SCBLOCK for this entry point.
R 12? Entry point address.
R 13? 24-word save area address.
R 14? Return address (CMSRET).
R 15? Entry point address.?
The SUBCOM entry point has to be implemented in assembler because direct access to registers is needed (R0, R2 are the most important to do real work). When calling C functions from here, there are loops and crashes if using stdio functions like sprintf(). I have written some demo code where I have avoided using stdio. For further debugging I have to build (parts of) the library myself. The demo ouput below shows the recording of subcommands issued to the XTEST environment by a REXX program. No actual execution of subcommands is implemented here. EE$XTEST?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
00:47? ---? SUBCOM XTEST : RC from SVC202, flag 1 = 0???????????????????????????????? ?
CMS bREXX 1.0.1 Jul? 5 2022?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
CMS COMMAND demo demo???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
say 'Hello World :- ) '?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
address() =? CMS????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? ---? MACRO DEMO XTEST : RC from SVC202???????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Macro executed -> RC = 196??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Starting macro : counter = 0 ????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
A? set case m i?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
B? locate /mystring?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
C? extract /curline/????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
D? input ' ) -: dlroW olleH' yas????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
E? input 1 2 1 1????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
F? input 2 4 4 4????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
G? input 3 6 9 27???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
H? input 4 8 16 256?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
I? input 5 10 25 3125???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
J? input 6 12 36 46656??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
K? input 7 14 49 823543?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
L? input 8 16 64 16777216???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
M? input 9 18 81 387420489??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
N? input 10 20 100 1E+10????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Memory dump at 000207e0:????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
000207e0 :? e7 e3 c5 e2? e3 40 40 40? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? XTES T??? .... .... ?
000207f0 :? 00 e7 44 08? 00 e7 a6 78? 00 e7 a6 8d? 00 00 00 00??? .X¨¤. .Xw? .Xw? .... ?
00020800 :? 89 95 97 a4? a3 40 f1 f0? 40 f2 f0 40? f1 f0 f0 40??? inpu t 10? 20? 100? ?
00020810 :? f1 c5 4e f1? f0 00 f9 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? 1E+1 0.9. .... .... ?
00020820 :? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 60 02 28 72??? .... .... .... -..? ?
00020830 :? 00 00 00 c4? 00 e7 44 18? 02 e7 44 08? 00 00 90 90??? ...D .X¨¤. .X¨¤. ..¡ã¡ã ?
00020840 :? 00 02 07 e0? 00 01 fc b0? 00 00 00 00? 00 e7 a6 78??? ...\ ..?? .... .Xw? ?
00020850 :? 00 00 32 60? 00 00 90 90? 00 01 fc b0? 00 f8 27 74??? ...- ..¡ã¡ã ..?? .8.? ?
00020860 :? 00 01 fc b0? 00 02 27 e0? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? ..?? ...\ .... .... ?
00020870 :? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? .... .... .... .... ?
00020880 :? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? .... .... .... .... ?
00020890 :? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00? 00 00 00 00??? .... .... .... .... ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
sc_buff[4096] at X'000207e0': XTEST?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Hit ENTER to continue ...???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
quit????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
00:47? ---? SUBCOM XTEST : RC from SVC202, flag 0 = 0???????????????????????????????? ?
counter = 14????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Ready(00196); T=0.04/0.09 00:01:12??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
File: DEMO???? EXEC???? A1??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
====>???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 0 * * * Top of File * * *???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 1 /* REXX */????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 2 trace n???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 3 parse version v???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 4 say v?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 5 parse source s????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 6 say s?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 7 parse arg a???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 8 say a?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 9 say "address() = " address()??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 10???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 11 address "XTEST"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 12 "set case m i"????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 13 "locate /mystring"????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 14 "extract /curline/"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 15 "input" reverse(a)????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 16???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 17 do i = 1 to 10????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 18?? "input" i i+i i*i i**i??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 19 end???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 20 exit rc???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
withtct 27, 2022 at 05:
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Re: Possible bug in BREXX parse instruction
Remembering the rough times of EXEC 2 when there was no 'parse' instruction: I now have a real use case where I need to program around this bug. Here are some quick ideas.
File: IND$FILE EXEC???? A1????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
====>??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 0 * * * Top of File * * *??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 1 /* REXX */???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 2??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 3 /*???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 4 parse upper arg mode fn ft fm fx '(' options?????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 5 */???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 6??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 7 /*???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 8?? Bug hurts: https://github.com/vlachoudis/brexx/issues/8????????????????????????? ?
??? 9????????????? /g/h390-vm/topic/possible_bug_in_brexx_parse/87676003
?? 10 */???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 11??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 12 parse upper arg argstring????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 13 pos_l_bracket = pos('(',argstring)???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 14 if pos_l_bracket = 0 then do?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 15?? options = ""???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 16?? args??? = argstring????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 17 end??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 18 else do??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 19?? options = substr(argstring,??? pos_l_bracket+1)????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 20?? args??? = substr(argstring, 1, pos_l_bracket-1)????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 21 end??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 22??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 23 parse var args mode fn ft fm fx??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
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Re: Not clear on tape with VM/CE
Hi Bob,
Some said the nucleus extensions in VM/CE had tape parameters simiar to VMFPLC2.? I am wanting to know more on this and as the VM/CE nucleus extensions.
Bert
On Fri, Nov 4, 2022, 17:10 Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: I have only ever called VMFPLC2 as a command from REXX programs. I never heard of any nucleus extensions for VMFPLC2.
Bob Bolch
Hello,
I know there are VMFPLC2 functions in VM/CE in the nucleus extensions.? I'm not sure how to call them from BRexx.? Is there something I can read on this issue (and anything else about the nucleus extensions?
Thank you,
Bert
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Re: Not clear on tape with VM/CE
I have only ever called VMFPLC2 as a command from REXX programs. I never heard of any nucleus extensions for VMFPLC2.
Bob Bolch
Hello,
I know there are VMFPLC2 functions in VM/CE in the nucleus extensions.? I'm not sure how to call them from BRexx.? Is there something I can read on this issue (and anything else about the nucleus extensions?
Thank you,
Bert
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Not clear on tape with VM/CE
Hello,
I know there are VMFPLC2 functions in VM/CE in the nucleus extensions.? I'm not sure how to call them from BRexx.? Is there something I can read on this issue (and anything else about the nucleus extensions?
Thank you,
Bert
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Re: How is BRexx different from Rexx?
Hello Mike and Bob,
Thank you for your replies.? I hope I do BREXX justice.
Bert
On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 7:17 AM Bob Bolch < Bob@...> wrote: REXX on VMCE is compatible with IBM's implementation for VM/SP. We do have one open issue with PARSE when the template contains literal strings in quotes.
CMS has been updated to include system interfaces from VM/SP with REXX programs commonly use:
REXX interface CMS immediate commands TS, TE, HI Calling REXX with the EXEC command MAKEUP, DROPBUF, and SENTRIES commands Nucleus Extensions and SUBcommand interfaces REXX calltype X'05' support IBM compatible?EXECIO command RDTERM TYPE=DIRECT for REXX tracing Support for REXX function packages EXECCOMM support
See the VM/SP REXX manuals?from the 1980s for details.
Bob Bolch
?
Hello,
As suggested, I'll be writing the BM Backup program using Rexx / Brexx.? I would appreciate knowing the differences because the goal is for the project to run on both VM/CE & real iron.
Thank you.
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Re: How is BRexx different from Rexx?
REXX on VMCE is compatible with IBM's implementation for VM/SP. We do have one open issue with PARSE when the template contains literal strings in quotes.
CMS has been updated to include system interfaces from VM/SP with REXX programs commonly use:
REXX interface CMS immediate commands TS, TE, HI Calling REXX with the EXEC command MAKEUP, DROPBUF, and SENTRIES commands Nucleus Extensions and SUBcommand interfaces REXX calltype X'05' support IBM compatible?EXECIO command RDTERM TYPE=DIRECT for REXX tracing Support for REXX function packages EXECCOMM support
See the VM/SP REXX manuals?from the 1980s for details.
Bob Bolch
?
Hello,
As suggested, I'll be writing the BM Backup program using Rexx / Brexx.? I would appreciate knowing the differences because the goal is for the project to run on both VM/CE & real iron.
Thank you.
|
Re: How is BRexx different from Rexx?
Hi Bertram, ? Peter Jacob asked me to send this information concerning your question. ? Von: PeterJ88@... <PeterJ88@...>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. November 2022 09:09
An: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Betreff: Re: [h390-vm] How is BRexx different from Rexx? ? Hello Bertram, ? the main differences are: - Different I/O methods (no EXECIO) *1
- the numeric precision is limited to 32-bit
- z/OS REXXAPI is not supported
- no ISPF support (z/OS) *2
- no TSO LMxxx support
- not compilable
- some minor differences in REXX functions (e.g. PARSE with templates)
? We have created and supported BREXX/370, which is an extended BREXX version for MVS3.8 and added some of the missing features: ? - *1 EXECIO? is contained
- *2 limited ISPF support
- Formatted screens as ISPF is not part of MVS3.8
- VSAM I/O (KSDS)
? I have no details for BREXX for VM. ? As I come originally from z/OS I can say the basic features of IBM REXXX and BREXX are very similar. The conversions to BREXX were in the above-mentioned areas. ? Regards ? Peter Jacob ? ? ? Hello, As suggested, I'll be writing the BM Backup program using Rexx / Brexx.? I would appreciate knowing the differences because the goal is for the project to run on both VM/CE & real iron.
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How is BRexx different from Rexx?
Hello,
As suggested, I'll be writing the BM Backup program using Rexx / Brexx.? I would appreciate knowing the differences because the goal is for the project to run on both VM/CE & real iron.
Thank you.
|
Re: Adding disks found in DMKRIO and CPEREP error
Hello Mark,
I suspect part of it is your changing the font.? I'll give?it a try.? BTW, how does one specify the various model numbers?? Is it the? Model5.wc3270?
Does VM/CE support the 3279?? Does WC3270 support the 3279?
I use a 3270 emulation program on my Samsung tablet.? It is Mocha YN3270 version 3.? Do you know much about it?? Does it support 3279?? Model 5, etc?
Thank you.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 21:29 Mark A. Stevens via <marXtevens= [email protected]> wrote: On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:37 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
: Now start the 3270 emulator.
: Feel free to replace this with your preferred terminal emulation program.
cd WC3270
start wc3270.exe -keymap 3270 -title "VM Login" Model5.wc3270
Bertram,
Sorry for the delay. Too many irons in the fire, and too many grandchildren (just one) to watch. ;-)
I set up VM/370 CE V1R1.2, under Hercules 4.4.1 on Windows 10. IPLed it and opened a model 5 wc3270 terminal session. Logged in as MAINT, ran Q DISK, and then selected the entire screen, with the left mouse button held down, clicked with the right mouse button, and pasted below. Formatted the output as Courier for monospacing.
L MAINT???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
ENTER PASSWORD:???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
DASD 19D LINKED R/W; R/O BY 002 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
DASD 19E LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
DASD 190 LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
DASD 194 LINKED R/W; R/O BY CPWATCH???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
LOGON AT 21:24:46 GMT MONDAY 10/31/22?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
VM Community Edition V1 R1.2??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Y (19E) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
U (19D) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
B (5E5) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 21:24:48???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
q disk????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Label? CUU M? Stat? Cyl Type Blksize?? Files? Blks Used-(%) Blks Left? Blk Total??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
MNT191 191 A?? R/W?? 30 3350? 800????????? 4???????? 83-00????? 17017????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
MNT5E5 5E5 B/B R/O?? 30 3350? 800???????? 11??????? 119-01????? 16981????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
CMSDSK 190 S?? R/O?? 59 3350? 800??????? 172????? 19537-58????? 14093????? 33630??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
MNT29D 19D U/S R/O?? 30 3350? 800??????? 407?????? 6242-37????? 10858????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
MNT19E 19E Y/S R/O?? 70 3350? 800??????? 710????? 28263-71????? 11637????? 39900??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 21:24:53???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? RUNNING?? VM370CE
I don't get the wrapping you do.
?... Mark S.
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Re: Adding disks found in DMKRIO and CPEREP error
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 11:37 PM, Bertram Moshier wrote:
: Now start the 3270 emulator.
: Feel free to replace this with your preferred terminal emulation program.
cd WC3270
start wc3270.exe -keymap 3270 -title "VM Login" Model5.wc3270
Bertram, Sorry for the delay. Too many irons in the fire, and too many grandchildren (just one) to watch. ;-) I set up VM/370 CE V1R1.2, under Hercules 4.4.1 on Windows 10. IPLed it and opened a model 5 wc3270 terminal session. Logged in as MAINT, ran Q DISK, and then selected the entire screen, with the left mouse button held down, clicked with the right mouse button, and pasted below. Formatted the output as Courier for monospacing. L MAINT???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?ENTER PASSWORD:???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?DASD 19D LINKED R/W; R/O BY 002 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?DASD 19E LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?DASD 190 LINKED R/W; R/O BY 004 USERS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?DASD 194 LINKED R/W; R/O BY CPWATCH???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?LOGON AT 21:24:46 GMT MONDAY 10/31/22?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?VM Community Edition V1 R1.2??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?Y (19E) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?U (19D) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?B (5E5) R/O???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?Ready; T=0.01/0.01 21:24:48???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?q disk????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?Label? CUU M? Stat? Cyl Type Blksize?? Files? Blks Used-(%) Blks Left? Blk Total??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?MNT191 191 A?? R/W?? 30 3350? 800????????? 4???????? 83-00????? 17017????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?MNT5E5 5E5 B/B R/O?? 30 3350? 800???????? 11??????? 119-01????? 16981????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?CMSDSK 190 S?? R/O?? 59 3350? 800??????? 172????? 19537-58????? 14093????? 33630??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?MNT29D 19D U/S R/O?? 30 3350? 800??????? 407?????? 6242-37????? 10858????? 17100??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?MNT19E 19E Y/S R/O?? 70 3350? 800??????? 710????? 28263-71????? 11637????? 39900??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?Ready; T=0.01/0.01 21:24:53???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? RUNNING?? VM370CEI don't get the wrapping you do. ?... Mark S.
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
Yup, at OCF we had 3033 and 3031 systems.? The 3033 was MP and the 3031 was AP.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022, 10:24 Tony Harminc < tharminc@...> wrote: OK, so I'm curious. MPs were available at the same time as APs, IIRC.
My recollection (fuzzy as it may be) is that MPs were available before APs. (The hardware, I mean, not the OS support.) Of course the 360/65 had an MP option, but it was architecturally a bit different from the S/370 MPs.
The way I remember it is that when the 3033 came out it had MP and AP options (but not both - there was speculation as to whether they might later do an MP/AP version with a total of four processors, but that didn't happen until the 308x generation).
Was there ever a 168AP? There was certainly an MP, but It seems to me that AP was "back ported" to the158, probably because the implementation on the 158 was much easier and less hardwired than the 168.
But I digress...
Tony H.
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Re: How does one install Hercules 4.4.1 on Windows? Issue with: Bertram,/
Hi Dave,
Yes, I am beginning to learn.? I just was hoping something could be done for those in the future who want to run Hercules.
Bert, What you see in these web sites, and in the Github repositories is the history of the teams and personalities that developed Hercules and its unlikely to be fixed. It¡¯s a common issue in Open Source Software which is why we have so many versions of Linux, Then there are the competing versions of free office suites, Open Office and Libre Office both of which have descended from StarOffice. Closer to home another Emulator SIMH now has two forks ?
? Its something we have to live with. Dave ? ? Thank you.? My point is simple: For new people who are looking for Hercules (such as myself) it looks like Google is going to the website before the 4.4.1 on Github.? I'm hoping someone can fix what is going on to prevent more people from going to an old site. Bert Bertram,
?is an old website for Hercules, and doesn't have any support beyond 3.07.
For Hercules 4 (hyperion) onwards, the current website is
Chris
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
Dave,
I agree.? MP might be of benefit, but there are many, many other items ahead of it.
Bert I think I will also say that, whilst an AP version of VM might be ¡°nice to have¡± it doesn¡¯t add any function. Fixing it requires effort that could be directed towards fixing other things or providing things that are visible to users. Dave ? ? Bertram, The base VM/370 has AP support but I am not sure if you can generate an easily generate an AP nucleus in CE because we didn¡¯t update the AP modules. Dave ? ? ? Hi, I'm wondering if VM/CE has AP and/or MP support? In 1981 and 1982, I was using VM/SP with an AP system and MVS on a MP system.? Just wondering if anyone added this support to VM/CE? Am I right that Herc supports AP and MP, right? I never looked, but how many AP and MP does VM/??? (the various versions) support?
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
Thank you Mark for putting the article in the file section.
Is there a method to look up IBM Systems Journal articles by author name?
I also worked in a shop that had a 158, and upgraded it to an AP, with a total of 6 MB of main storage (4 MB was Memorex add-on memory).? It also worked well for MVS.? IIRC, it also worked reasonably well if you ran VM on the main processor, and ran MVS in a favored virtual machine and dedicated the AP side to that MVS virtual machine.
The reason it was not as helpful for? normal VM/370 Rel. 6 use was because of the locking that is needed in CP between the main processor and the code running on the AP side.? The issue has to do with the design of the locking hierarchy.??
As you may recall, MVS has a hierarchy of locks, starting with the LOCAL lock, then the CMS lock, etc. for various parts of the OS.? You had to always obtain the lower level locks before you could obtain the next higher level, e.g. you always had to obtain the LOCAL lock, then the CMS lock, and so on.
But, for VM/370, AP support implemented essentially just a single GLOBAL lock for all of CP.? So, there was quite a bit of contention for this one global lock, between the main CPU and the AP side, for doing pretty much anything in CP that required updating various control blocks, etc. There was also extra overhead because each processor has its own TLB, so paging was more complex.
With VM/SP, VM/HPO and later releases (VM/ESA, etc.), they addressed various performance related issues.? But, it was a matter of "expediency" to get VM/370 to support the AP hardware at all ... once the AP hardware was available.
There was a good article in the IBM Systems Journal that explained the complexities of dealing with AP and MP configurations for VM's CP.
I put a copy of that article in the H390-VM "Files" area ... for those interested ...
Mark
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
Hi,
At OCF, we used our AP strictly for compute bound programs.? I was at the research facility and users we doing fluid dynamics of fire, wind, cold air, hot air, etc, we had need for an AP.
I take it MP support would be a big deal to add to VM/CE, right?
OK, so I'm curious. MPs were available at the same time asAPs, IIRC. Was MP support strictly a VM/HPO feature? Base MVS 3.8 works on AP/MP systems just fine. My first sysprog job was on a 370/158AP running?3.8, and we did get a performance boost?when we added the AP.
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 8:12 AM Bob Polmanter < wably@...> wrote: AP support is available in VM/370? (not MP), but I wouldn't recommend bothering with it.? Because of the limitations where the attached processor cannot do i/o, it forces a lot of extra overhead onto the main processor.? Unless you have just the right mix of work loads, there is little benefit to using AP support.? You would need to have a lot of CPU-bound workloads that do little i/o in order to get any real benefit.
Basically, I found that performance is no better than running in uniprocessor mode.? It's no worse, but you simply don't 'feel' the benefit of having an extra processor.
With that said and at the time not aware of the lack of performance, I did go through the drill of getting AP to work on VM/370 R6.? This was using the Sixpack 1.2 system sometime around 2016.? I documented the effort and the steps to generate an AP nucleus as well as some bug fixes to CP in order to get it to run AP; those materials are in the files section of this group called 'ap.zip'.? This could be made to work on VM/CE but probably would not work right out of the box because VM/CE has had a lot of maintenance and changes since Sixpack 1.2 of 2016.
I don't recommend even bothering because of poor performance of AP.? Worse, if you run AP you must turn off ECPS:VM which drags performance down even more.?? But if anyone has any interest and wants to dig through it and see what they could do with it, the files are there for those so inclined.
Regards,
Bob
--
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
OK, so I'm curious. MPs were available at the same time as APs, IIRC.
My recollection (fuzzy as it may be) is that MPs were available before APs. (The hardware, I mean, not the OS support.) Of course the 360/65 had an MP option, but it was architecturally a bit different from the S/370 MPs.
The way I remember it is that when the 3033 came out it had MP and AP options (but not both - there was speculation as to whether they might later do an MP/AP version with a total of four processors, but that didn't happen until the 308x generation).
Was there ever a 168AP? There was certainly an MP, but It seems to me that AP was "back ported" to the158, probably because the implementation on the 158 was much easier and less hardwired than the 168.
But I digress...
Tony H.
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
Jay,
MP support was not available until VM/SP.
Mark's port details the reasons that AP support is so poor in VM/370; he is correct.
Regards,
Bob
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Re: AP and/or MP support in VM/CE: Does it exist or no?
I also worked in a shop that had a 158, and upgraded it to an AP, with a total of 6 MB of main storage (4 MB was Memorex add-on memory).? It also worked well for MVS.? IIRC, it also worked reasonably well if you ran VM on the main processor, and ran MVS in a favored virtual machine and dedicated the AP side to that MVS virtual machine.
The reason it was not as helpful for? normal VM/370 Rel. 6 use was because of the locking that is needed in CP between the main processor and the code running on the AP side.? The issue has to do with the design of the locking hierarchy.??
As you may recall, MVS has a hierarchy of locks, starting with the LOCAL lock, then the CMS lock, etc. for various parts of the OS.? You had to always obtain the lower level locks before you could obtain the next higher level, e.g. you always had to obtain the LOCAL lock, then the CMS lock, and so on.
But, for VM/370, AP support implemented essentially just a single GLOBAL lock for all of CP.? So, there was quite a bit of contention for this one global lock, between the main CPU and the AP side, for doing pretty much anything in CP that required updating various control blocks, etc. There was also extra overhead because each processor has its own TLB, so paging was more complex.
With VM/SP, VM/HPO and later releases (VM/ESA, etc.), they addressed various performance related issues.? But, it was a matter of "expediency" to get VM/370 to support the AP hardware at all ... once the AP hardware was available.
There was a good article in the IBM Systems Journal that explained the complexities of dealing with AP and MP configurations for VM's CP.
I put a copy of that article in the H390-VM "Files" area ... for those interested ...
Mark
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Martin Scheffler
Mark A. Stevens